What is the new DU Goal? Shouldn't it be To support our party?

[Dragonfli]

No personally derogative posts aimed at Democratic nominees are helpful to the democratic party or the eventual candidate our process will produce to run in the general election. Such posts and attacks belong on a republican board as they weaken our candidates, reinforce republican talking points and help them to smear our candidates.

Republicans do not need our help painting our candidates as monkeys, witches, liars, radicals or any other such undesirable creatures to be displayed before a dumbed down pablum fed and skillfully misguided population that may not bother to research our candidates in order to learn a more objective truth about there positions and aspirations for correcting the objectively destructive course our nation has been on the last couple of decades.

Do all of you not see this? I know many that do, or did, and who in fact speak and have spoken eloquently and proudly of the merits of their candidates platforms, or alternately of the shortcomings of the Republican candidate that have endorsements from truly bigoted and quite frankly dangerously insane preaches (quite insane in fact as the Hagee character advocates the equivalent of "immanentizing the eschaton" - a theological term for "bringing about the end of the world". Or pointing out that our Republican opponent advocates perpetual war as well as a tax structure designed to shift wealth from most Americans to the wealthiest few. I do not understand quite frankly why any Dem hating posts are allowed to exist on a moderated board that is supposed to help the Democratic cause.

I am very concerned in fact because it appears as if this board is now actually hurting our chances to win an election when it could be used to make it a slam dunk for whoever wins the primary.

It is by no means only posters on Democratic Underground that are harming our chances, but the candidates themselves as well when they “bloody up” their primary opponents for Mcsane as Rush Seems to be plotting to encourage, or proposing that the Republican is a better choice in the GE than the other Democrat in the race. I have been told that both candidates are doing this sort of thing, I am largely only aware of the DLC participation in this misguided strategy, but have been told rather forcefully that it is both, I would concede that point, but only because I am far from all-knowing or all aware of everything both our candidates are up to and also because the point does not matter to me all that much, only the truth that such internal attack tactics are quite harmful to our chances of winning a GE. I consider this an axiom of primary politics – I realize some may disagree, but because it is self evident I am fairly certain most can see and understand this.

The question is, do we continue collectively helping the Republicans win the GE by helping them “bloody up” our candidates or to we post threads about the individual Democrats we support with well researched facts and reasonable arguments in support of their policies? Or alternately post well researched and eloquently argued criticisms of destructive Republican policies and candidates that we are against?.

It is very troubling to me to see how much groundwork we are doing for our opponents the R's in providing negative smears and links to them.
It may be that there is no solution to the Dem bashing epidemic that has infected one of my subjectively favorite boards and turned it into a smear resource for McCain.

Do you not see it is bad to help the other side? They are only “the other side” because they appear to be ruining our country. Because I believe this I feel I must oppose them, is that not something we should focus on? Defeating them rather than each other?

Just my two cents, I only post very rarely, more so a few years ago, but I felt compelled to point out the obvious because I am a progressive and would like to see my country embark on a path to sanity, growth, and healing and one of the few places I can go to read posts from intelligent people with similar goals has now become - in my opinion - a help to the opponents of my goals.

I may have to find a site that is more concerned with healing a very sick country than it is with focusing on which DEMOCRAT TO HATE. Anyone know of such a place? A place like DU once was? If so please post a link. I am obsessed with ending the destructive, liberty destroying Republican rule and not with which Dem I want to hate at the moment. Truth be told, the party has shifted so far to the right of late that I realise, I may have to wait several years for an FDR or other true progressive to win a nomination. You see I understand that I will have to settle for the most progressive of the choices available to me. This troubles me as well but you will not find me trashing either one of them even though I would prefer a more "democratic" Democrat. Why is it so hard for others to do something similar with their support or condemnation?

[texastoast]

1. Hear hear!

A place like DU once was. How I miss it.

You are SO right. DU is doing the pukes' job for them.

[Dragonfli]

5. Thanks for taking the time to read it

Most haven't and I appreciate that you have taken the time, I know I am not a strong writer.
Do you think there is anything a couple of pagan phreaks such as ourselves can do to try to change this unfortunate dynamic?

[texastoast]

7. I don't know

I know the polarization is just devastating. I've posted elsewhere today that we look like the Keystone Cops.

I can be such a cynic that I wonder how many of the newbies (and some of the 1000+ posters for that matter) are not just pure puke trolls working in a concerted effort to undermine the election of a Democratic president. Gosh, they are just as effective as trolls, even if they are not. Part of the passion is that it truly is history in the making, but that very passion is being expressed in such a negative way as to undermine the larger goal--a Democratic president--in favor of "MY CANDIDATE!"

If this doesn't stop, I'm beginning to doubt that we will get either of them elected.

Though I have been attacked and accused of being lockstep with the party (oh, how very untrue that is), I will continue to inquire whether hateful posters think their post is helpful to the goal of electing a Democratic president. I feel that if we continue to try to raise posters' consciousness to the bigger goal, we might eventually get through to some of them. But I'm not betting my last dollar on that. The bile we see on this board needs to be directed against the Republicans and not to people who are supposed to be on the same side. My grandmother was big on manners, and were she still with us, I think she would be taking a bunch of these posters to the cyber woodshed to adjust their etiquette.:spank:

There is no grace in this fray. No humor. No joy. There needs to return an atmosphere of spirited, constructive, polite debate. I guess that is just my Southerness coming through.

And dear Dragonfli, you write very well.


:toast:

[Dragonfli]

8. My fear is that some may rise above it - but too many will not.

You are correct to say there is no grace in the fray. There are real enemies out there that are literally killing our planet and our natural inclination towards liberty. We need unity and positive ideas to confront these enemies. I love your "lock-step" comment. It is glaringly obvious, to me at least, that like myself you are merely seeking unity so that we may begin more earnestly to effect the positive changes that must occur very soon if we are to expect a positive outcome for our children.

My belief is that the need to change course is dire and the threats that face us are potentially fatal to our entire race! This may sound hyperbolic, but there is far too much evidence of our "biospherical self-destructiveness" to believe otherwise (perpetual war is not very "healthy" for our race either). There simply is no time to patiently build from scratch a viable 3rd party progressive alternative. A real progressive party would be far preferable (for my taste at least - an admittedly debatable point)- If there were more time and less immediate danger I would not waste my time with republican-lite dinos or ideological compromises and simply devote all my energy to building a party as progressive as the Democratic party was when I joined so long ago.

As it is, I choose the best options available at the time a choice must be made, while attempting not to "shoot myself in the head" in order to save my enemy the bullet, an apt metaphor to what is happening to the party with all of this self-mutilation.

If only the spirit of this board could reflect the spirited passionate joy of being aligned with natural, restorative, positive change!
That is what drives me! Not negative energy, but rather a positive vision. We tend to manifest what we give energy to. Positive or negative, and a foul vision creates a foul world.

This song expresses my vision and values quite well , and also I happen to be quite fond of the artist.


I think I had the northern version of your grandmother. She insisted on manners - believed good form attracted good will. (She would have used a large mixing spoon on some of the folks around here).

Thank you for complimenting my writing. I do believe what I write sincerely, but I lack confidence due to a very low level of official education and the fact that everything I write has a rambling scattered quality to it.:toast:
You made me feel dag neer smart fer a minute there LOL
I kinda needed that confidence booster right now. Thanks!

PS you are right about the trolls. The thing about that I would add is that they have always been around, more so now because the ditto heads have been deployed with orders it seems. The problem is not them, they can even be fun sometimes to hunt. The problem lately - according to my own subjective observations - is that rather than being hunted they seem to have earned a new status as pets to be fed and even agreed with at times. You are not cynical, you are merely not blind.

Perhaps soon we will find ourselves in a spirited, constructive, polite debate on this board and the author of the thread will have the highest # of recommendations simply because of the quality and constructive nature of the post.

It is my hope that the others will realize this or perhaps the mods will enforce a rule something like "an it harm none of our candidates, do as thou will"

[texastoast]

9. Cool song

About and it harm none--pretty big commandment, eh?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

2. My goal is to post so well that Skinner will feel obligated to bring

me breakfast someday. Tic toc, tic toc....

[Bobbieo]

3. D-fli - If you can find such a site please let us know!

[Dragonfli]

4. Perhaps the "Elders" can help brind DU back around.

I have never been much of a poster, I study, learn, write congress-critters and protest upon occasion, but appealing to the posting masses is not a strong skill of mine (and I am not well known even though I have been a member for a few years.) The evidence of my lack of "sway" with other members is the meteoric sinking of this thread.

I would like to appeal to anyone to make my case (if they agree with it of course) for the good of all. I don't much care if anybody remembers it was ever even important to me, only that we get to the business of helping the party succeed while denying the Rethugs the pleasure of our self-hating.

The only things people here have ever paid attention to that I have posted are graphic.
Remember these? These sort of graphics are all I am ever remembered for, not my word based posts or ideas. So I could use some help from posters that people actually read. LOL

By the way I do know of another place, but the focus is progressive, not specifically Democratic so the link would be verboten here. And I would like the former DU or the new equivalent for working towards strengthening the Democratic Party.

[Dragonfli]

6. Kick - NT

[Catherine Vincent]

10. ....

:kick: