STOP IT!! You can't just "call" the race. There's no nominee. No one can get to 2025 WITHOUT

[chimpymustgo]

super-delegates. More people get to - and WANT to - vote. Why not let them???

Is Obama a WITCH because he wants to win - and plays dirty politics to do it??? Is he a power-hungry maniac???

Stop this CHILDISHNESS!! Quit whining and bitching and moaning and bullying.

Let's see where this goes. PLAY BALL!!

[TwilightGardener]

1. You're just not very bright, are you?

[apocalypsehow]

15. What you said.

:thumbsup:

[grantcart]

2. Pelosi number 220

[Kittycat]

3. So it's no longer sexist to use Whining & Bitching?

Because if that's the case... I have a few things I'd like to say.

[Cha]

37. Toufreakin'che! n/t

[babylonsister]

52. Word!

:rofl:

[TheWraith]

4. It's over when one candidate can no longer win. That's happened.

Since it's been declared by all the high-ranking Dems that there will be no overturning of the popular election results, the race is effectively over.

[chimpymustgo]

8. ONE is saying it. Doesnt make it so. NEITHER SIDE HAS THE DELEGATES. Or will have them.

It's really simple. I'm praying for a deadlocked convention - which looks likely. Ain't democracy grand?

[LWolf]

28. I'm also holding out for a deadlocked convention.

One that will result in a better nominee than either.

I'm actually willing to vote for one of the two entirely unacceptable candidates in my late primary to try to help that process along; whichever candidate is slightly behind at the time.

I'm told all the time by sincere, passionate DUers that my vote is a strategic thing, not a personal choice. That I shouldn't withhold it just because I don't like the candidates.

So I won't. I'll vote in a strategic way to lend weight to the only winning strategy for me: a dead-locked convention and a DIFFERENT candidate.

What other possible point is there to a late, after-the-party's over primary? If the early states get to unacceptably narrow our choices down, the late states can play spoiler.

Until the party decides to provide a truly democratic primary.

[Alexander]

41. You want a convention that will damage our chances in November?

Whose side are you on, anyway?

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

48. The Real Magic Number is 1,627

The Real Magic Number is 1,627
1,627 is fifty percent plus one of the 3,253 democratically selected delegates to the Democratic nominating convention.

Once a candidate has 1,627 of these "pledged" delegates, he or she will win the nomination -- unless the 796 superdelegates overturn the judgment of voters.

And that's not going to happen.

[sandnsea]

5. Aaargh - you support dirty politics now????

What the fuck is wrong with some of you?

[chimpymustgo]

9. No, I don't - I'm an Edwards supporter. But Obama has run a vicious campaign.

The denial of it by his supporters is showing a real blindness.

[sandnsea]

13. Oh bullshit

I am so fed up with this. Look, a lot of you Edwards supporters went after Obama because he looked like the easier target earlier. Some of you believed your own campaign propaganda. It is time to let it go. It is not Obama's fault that Edwards didn't make it.

[mckeown1128]

54. They seem to forget that... it was Hillary...

who sent out fake mailers that attacked Obama and implied that they were from Edwards. Do you remember that from Iowa?

[dbonds]

23. Seems a lot of Hillary supporters are claiming they are Edwards supporters lately.

Many posts that trashes Obama or enshrines Hillary have an Edwards avatar. Seems to be the 'in thing' lately.

[chimpymustgo]

39. Edwards supporter since 03. Why must you people try to denigrate anyone who is not under the sway?

Some of us want to see this play out. Till the end. No need to call it early. Simple as that. You need not attempt to insult me.

[Seabiscuit]

49. Because it's the nature of Obamanoids to be Obamannoying. n/t

:evilgrin:

[shrdlu]

33. Very true...

I didn't want to believe it...Still don't...But then I saw him standing smug as a bug by the loopy General McPeak while that worthy accused Bill Clinton of McCarthyism. The general must have pulled too many G's too many times while flying with the Thunderbirds.

[DJ13]

6. Hillary has already lost

Like a chicken without its head, the body just doesnt know its dead yet.

[jgraz]

7. What is your realistic scenario for Hillary winning the nomination?

I'll give you mine for Obama:

Obama wins the pledged delegates
Obama wins the recorded vote
Obama wins the most primaries
Obama wins the most caucuses

30% of the remaining super delegates follow current S.D. polling and decide to respect the will of the voters. Q.E.D.


Your turn.

[chimpymustgo]

18. My guess is, the two will be essentially deadlocked going into the convention. No one with ENOUGH.

One or the other may have MORE - but neither, ENOUGH. Al Gore might be a compromise candidate.

[jgraz]

19. That's just an uninformed guess on your part

If you haven't bothered to look at the real math, you have no business hectoring people who have.

[chimpymustgo]

22. I didn't see anything but fuzzy math in your post. BHO will NOT have 2025.

Let's let the voters of PA, NC and IN have their say.

[jgraz]

24. You can't even post at the level of detail I did.

I can give you more math if you want, but you can't even sketch out a winning scenario for her.

It's OVER. She cannot win. I've shown you why. Now if you want to continue the discussion, you need to come up with something more than conjecture and exclamation points.

[chimpymustgo]

38. She can win by the same means as Obama - superdelegates. It's going to be a draw.

[jgraz]

42. No, she can't.

My hypothesis is that all the Clinton supporters have is fantasy and wishful thinking. So far, you're proving that quite well.

Let's try this once again:

Obama is going to win the pledged delegate count.
Obama is going to win the recorded vote. (meaningless, but we'll play on your turf)
Obama will have the most primaries won
Obama will have the most caucuses won

The BEST estimates have Hillary needing 65-70% of the uncommitted superdelegates in order to TIE Obama. How, exactly, do you see that happening (barring an underage gay sex hooker scandal)??

Especially given the fact that Hillary has not gained a single superD since Feb 5th, while Obama has gained over 60.


How do you address this? How do you see her overcoming what I've outlined above?

[azmouse]

20. Al Gore is not running.

And this will never go all the way to the convention. Hillary will be long gone by then.

[DearAbby]

10. You are now defending a liar...

Is this what it has come too?

[chimpymustgo]

11. Obama's a liar too. Good grief - Rezco, Rev Wright. Get REAL. They both lie.

They're both politicians. I'd pick another candidate quite frankly. Hello deadlocked convention!!!

[DearAbby]

16. Prove it....

How has Obama lied about Rezko?

How has Obama lied about Wright?

Hillary was shown, proven to be a liar, no ands, ifs or buts. Pictures do not lie.

[democrat_nanny]

26. Here's the article that many are pointing to

I really don't give a fuck anymore. They both lie. Everyone in politics lies. Our party is so fucked and I blame it on all of us. I'm for the "Greenspan Amendment" (even though I can't stand Greenspan) that proposed, "Anyone who is willing to do what it takes to be elected president is immediately disqualified from holding the office of president."

Anywhoo, here's the quote and the link about the Wright stuff. (pun not intended but I made myself lol anyway ;-)


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/30/us/politics/30obama.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all&oref=login&oref=slogin

Mr. Wright, who has long prided himself on criticizing the establishment, said he knew that he may not play well in Mr. Obama’s audition for the ultimate establishment job.

“If Barack gets past the primary, he might have to publicly distance himself from me,” Mr. Wright said with a shrug. “I said it to Barack personally, and he said yeah, that might have to happen.”

[TwilightGardener]

34. What did Obama lie about--point to where ANY statement he made

about either Rezko or Wright was a PROVEN lie? I refuse to let Hillbots spread this meme unchallenged--it's Hillary who is the known and proven liar.

[azmouse]

17. This will never get to the convention.

It will be decided by the SD much sooner.
They know the party is being torn apart by Hillary's unwillingness to acknowledge defeat.

[ericgtr]

12. The only children in this thing are Hillary and her supporters who can't get their way

[mudesi]

14. Sigh. LET IT SINK please (nm)

[backscatter712]

21. *plonk*

This is yet another asshole stirring the shit.

Kiss goodbye to your audience.

[clevbot]

25. DNC doesn't see your way

[Life Long Dem]

27. Screw more terrorism

[ClassWarrior]

29. But one candidate can only get to 2025 by strong-arming the SDs.

NGU.

[Tom Rinaldo]

32. LOL

If Clinton wasn't able to "strong arm" SD's to support her when everyone figured she was going to be the next President of the United States last Summer, or after she won New Hampshire, or California, who on earth can strong arm them into doing anything now that they themselves don't believe makes sense? The SD's who had alliegences already endorsed some one. The SD's who owed political favors already endorsed someone. What are left are uncommitted SD's, and it's not exactly as if there is some big bad party machine that Clinton controls that can force them to do her bidding. What is she going to do, get Nancy Pelosi to lean on them for her?

SD's will only support Clinton now if they see some compelling logic why she should be our nominee rather than Obama. She has no ability to strong arm them into anything.

And neither candidate can get to 2025 now without SD's.

[ClassWarrior]

43. There's always the Tonya Harding Option.

NGU.

[charlie]

30. Okay

But no complaining when she sets up a command center in the bushes outside the Oval Office in January, in case the President sleeps through a 3am call. She promises she'll be Ready on Day One, and I take her at her word.

[northzax]

31. strange, isn't it?

this is why Democrats don't win national elections. We beg for candidates willing to pull out all the stops and win, and when we get one, we shiv them for not being the 'right kind of people'

I wonder how Obama would act if he was five points down with two weeks to go? would he fight tooth and nail for us? or simply keep on smiling as the ship slipped beneath the icy waters of the North Atlantic?

[zalinda]

36. What do you expect from Obama supporters?

They thought that Obama would walk away with it, but Clinton spoiled their plans. And, now they act like spoiled babies always crying about how it's unfair to Obama that Clinton is still in the race.

While I don't like Clinton, I have to admire that she is indeed a fighter.

zalinda

[weezie1317]

35. She can't win a majority of the vote, which is what the superdelegates should follow ()

[northzax]

40. the vote? Or the pledged delegates?

I can't keep the goalposts straight. Superdelegates should do what they are supposed to: vote for the person they think will be a better representative of the democratic party in November.

[Johnny__Motown]

44. But Super Delegates won't over turn the Pledged Delegates, and Obama has won that already

It is over. Sorry your candidate lost. Better luck next time.

[Joe the Revelator]

45. I'm not going to sit here an indulge Hillary's ego. The race is OVER and its time to focus on McSame

Its really as simple as that. Fuck your play ball, fuck your desire to let Hillary lose for the next few months. I want to win the whitehouse.

[northzax]

47. and you really think that three extra months of free media

is going to hurt Barack Obama's chances in the Fall? who's paying attention to John McCain? oh right, no one, because the race is over. you think Obama's race speech gets covered for free on every tv station if the race is over? you think anyone pays any attention?

[stevietheman]

46. Obama is indeed the nominee, though...

...unless you want SD's to override the pledged delegates, and that would only cause war at the convention and a "President McCain".

[Lucinda]

50. Yep. I can't figure out why anyone is afraid to just let the voters, well, vote.

Oh, wait. I CAN think of a reason. :)
Good post! K&R

[Levgreee]

51. Here's a reason... because the prolonged primary is hurting the Dems and helping McCain

[Lucinda]

53. Nah...Nothing can help McCain long term. IMO it's just a talking point for people who

don't want to let everyone vote.