The video the DNC had when FL pleaded before them. Very damning.

[madfloridian]

Thanks to willyourvotebcounted for finding this. Please view it. Remember if the Democrats in the Florida legislature had voted no, even though outnumbered...their delegates would have counted. But they worked with the GOP, voted 115 to 1 and then whined.

WATCH the VIDEO:

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/files/geller_amendment_f...

That is the lovely man, Steve Geller, who threatened to sue the early states for being terrorist rogue states.

He recently went after Dean again...his favorite pastime.

Florida Dem senator whines to the BBC....threatens DNC.."mutually assured destruction."

Watch the video. He mocked his own amendment so he could tell the DNC they tried. The DNC had the transcript and video.

[Cha]

1. Thanks, mad..a kick

for tomorrow's viewing

[Tarheel_Dem]

2. thanks madf.....kickie

[DJ13]

3. I've noticed that the Florida Dems are indistinguishable from Florida Repugs

Poor Florida voters no longer seem to have any real choices anymore, its (D) Repug or (R) Repug, but its all the same thing.

Its no wonder Clinton does well there.

[anonymeme]

17. Well, Maybe That's Just madfloridian, Because Her Story Differs From the Florida Dems Website:

Well, Maybe That's Just madfloridian, Because Her Story Differs From the Florida Dems Website -- And Why IS That the Case One Wonders... Here Read for Yourself:

Party Statement on Primary Situation
Dear Florida Democrats,

For a year now, the Florida Democratic Party has tried to comply with the Delegate Selection Rules of the Democratic National Committee.

We researched every potential alternative process - from caucuses to county conventions to mail-in elections - but no plan could come anywhere close to being viable in Florida.

We made a detailed case to the DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee, but we were denied.

Our Democratic legislators in Tallahassee tried to set the Florida primary on Feb. 5, instead of Jan. 29, but of course, their proposed amendment to House Bill 537 was greeted with laughter and derision from the Republicans who control the state government:

http://www.dangelber.com/audio/RepGelberexchangewithRep...

or http://www.fladems.com/page/m/5604151d267acffc/s8CJH8/V... /

Does '537' ring a bell? It should. It's the number of votes that separated Texas Gov. George W. Bush and Vice President Al Gore in Florida in 2000.

It's the number that sent this country and this world in a terrible direction.

We can't let 537 - or the Republicans - determine our future again.

President Bush plans to stop in Florida tomorrow to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars for the Republican National Committee's efforts to elect his successor in November.

The last thing America needs is a third Bush term. Despite the widespread anxiety that working families feel, not to mention the broad agreement among economists that we are in a recession, President Bush and John McCain blindly believe that the economy is strong.

And let me remind you that John McCain endorsed President Bush's decision to deny health care to thousands of Florida children by vetoing an expansion of the successful SCHIP program. McCain also promises to jeopardize the financial security of Florida seniors by privatizing Social Security. He continually threatens to push Florida's military families to the brink by keeping American troops in Iraq for "100 years" or more.

This is why we are Democrats, and this is why we must stick together, no matter where this ongoing delegate debate takes us.

Last week, the Florida Democratic Party laid out the only existing way that we can comply with DNC Rules - a statewide revote run by the Party - and asked for input.

Thousands of people responded. We spent the weekend reviewing your messages, and while your reasons vary widely, the consensus is clear: Florida doesn't want to vote again.

So we won't.

A party-run primary or caucus has been ruled out, and it's simply not possible for the state to hold another election, even if the Party were to pay for it. Republican Speaker of the Florida House Marco Rubio refuses to even consider that option. Florida is finally moving to paper ballots, which is a good thing, but it means that at least 15 counties do not have the capacity to handle a major election before the June 10th DNC primary deadline.

This doesn't mean that Democrats are giving up on Florida voters. It means that a solution will have to come from the DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee, which is scheduled to meet again in April.

When this committee stripped us of 100% of our delegates last year, some members summed up their reasoning by saying, "The rules are the rules." Unfortunately, the rules did not apply to Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina when they, too, violated the DNC calendar by moving from their assigned dates.

As the late great Democratic President Franklin D. Roosevelt once said, "We must adjust our ideas to the facts of today... Rules are not necessarily sacred, principles are."

The Florida Democratic Party has stuck to its principles throughout this debate. We've remained open-minded while never wavering from our commitment to an open and fair election that would allow all Florida Democrats to participate, whether serving in Iraq, retiring in Boca, studying abroad or entertaining at a theme park.

Another late great President -Abraham Lincoln, a Republican - said, "A house divided against itself cannot stand."

If Democrats heed this wisdom, we will win in November.

America needs a great president again, but a President McCain will settle for the status quo and carry on the disastrous Bush tradition.

President Clinton or President Obama will make history and lead this nation in a new direction.

Let's remember this as the delegate debate continues. We must stick together as Democrats. The stakes are too high and the opportunities too great.

I will keep you posted on any major developments. Thank you for your concern and your commitment.

Sincerely,

Congresswoman Karen L. Thurman
Chair, Florida Democratic Party

http://www.fladems.com/content/w/party_statement_on_pri...

[Orangepeel]

28. Thurman can post anything she wants on the FDP website. It doesn't make it reality.

Thurman's been trying to spin for months because Florida Ds screwed up.

I, like madfloridian, have been paying attention since it happened (although no one can top madfloridian for attention to the issue). Anyone who was knows that this was as much a democratic initiative as a republican one and that the Florida democrats were warned that they're delegates wouldn't count (now the FDP is saying that they thought that only half would count).

[madfloridian]

32. Thanks.

Yes, right now the spin needs to stop. It has hurt party enough, and it has done great harm.

Truth is needed.

Darn those old "bramble bushes" anyway.

[madfloridian]

31. I get Karen's emails. I get all the party stuff. They are not being forthcoming at all.

They settled on spin to use, and they have done it well. They got the Florida bloggers on board who use that spin, and they sent press releases to the media. They sent emails asking that donations be stopped to the DNC. They said it was all Dean's fault.

When you are in a hole.....

[krkaufman]

81. Sounds like they pounded Tim Padgett with their propaganda successfully. n/t

[jackster]

73. Thurman needs her walking papers...

now! She is implicit in this debacle and she can SAY anything she wants. The evidence and facts are clear as a bell on this one. And whoever said there's no difference in FLA Dems and Repigs is right. As a native of Florida, I think it's okay for me to say they are officially now the stupidest state in the nation.

[jackster]

74. Thurman needs her walking papers...

now! She is implicit in this debacle and she can SAY anything she wants. The evidence and facts are clear as a bell on this one. And whoever said there's no difference in FLA Dems and Repigs is right. As a native of Florida, I think it's okay for me to say they are officially now the stupidest state in the nation.

[krkaufman]

82. Well, that's probably why they're trying to pin the blame on Dean.

They don't want the Florida Dem activists throwing 'em out of control of the Party.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

96. do view/listen to the video & hear Geller's snark when "asking" for an amendment

he jokes about it. Do it, click on the video link.

[cyclezealot]

100. why does madfloridian keep up his rant

he offers no solution. Nothing can be done. Its now too late. So let it rest.

[madfloridian]

103. I am a she. Florida is having a media blitz against Dean as we speak .

The last few days it has been non stop. They are so angry they are viciously striking out.

I will continue to post as long as they continue to act like idiots and fools.

Dean did the right thing, he followed the rules. Florida will break him, and they will see him brought down as chairman before they are done.

If they go several news cycles and don't attack, I will let up.

I think I have often told you I am a she.

[cyclezealot]

104. My beef with Dean and his lack of foresight

to not follow penalty procedures used by the RNC against Florida, Michigan, Wyoming GOP parties, does not mean I want Dean brought down. Dean should have looked at how the RNC handled Florida's uppity Republicans. By cutting the delegation in half. that is sufficient punishment for their "breaking rules"; they think need be changed and too long ignored by the DNC . Guess, saying you are trying to save Dean from this mistake makes me somewhat more tolerant of your obsession with this unfortunate incident.

[madfloridian]

105. I live here. I see the lies. I see the spin. I will stop when they shut up.

If you think I am obsessed then ignore my posts.

[cyclezealot]

106. It was not mean't as criticism

Your posts are your right. Just trying to add some balance. I recently displayed the article by John Nichols giving an alternative history of how the DNC has ignored the Michigan beef with the DNC. Yet, Nichols calls for some kind of positive outcome. And hopes Michigan cooperates to that end. One's obsession is one's right. I just suggest instead of adding fuel to the fire, we should try to do something positive to resolve the mess.Instead of repeating over and over, you broke the rules- go home blah, blah , blah . That is no way to win in November. / Maybe, in the case of Michigan, Those Mich Democrats who agree with Debbie Dingell would be more co-operative if Dean would just say in the future you're concerns will be again be considered . Instead of adding more invective. / I thought my saying , I hope this whole mess does not bring Dean down would be a positive thing.

[madfloridian]

107. It has already fixed his reputation in this state. I don't know about MI

I read what Nichols wrote, and he was wrong. Dean is not one of the worst things about Democrats....I was stunned he said that. Nichols has saying a lot of things like that lately, surprising.

This whole thing is out of control.

Florida has done its job for Hillary. I hope she has to get out of the race. But there was collateral damage....Dean.

[cyclezealot]

110. One difference between u an me.

I don't particularily like either Hillary or Obama. Doubt we'd revote in a redo. Both are flawed. Neither were our choices, so why re vote. Who ever wins, we'll have to work for. That is why we think the present primary system stinks. We always come up with loosers. It is impossible to believe in this year, we'd loose to McCain. And Michigan / Florida had not all that much to do with Obama's or Hillary's ankle bitting. They would have blown it with or without the Michigan / Florida fiasco. We need to shorten the season, lessen the ankle biting, lessen money and assure all get a chance to present their case. Either with a series of regional or a national primary with no more campaign time than say, four months. / Guess after the Rev. wright fiasco. We might be tending to favor Hillary as much as we dislike her. The wright flap and covert Racism in America. Buchanan is right. the 527's will sink Obama so fast , he won't know what hit him.

[sudopod]

4. You're a champ

If I can be half the Democrat you are, maybe they'll forgive me for voting for dub dub.

[40ozDonkey]

83. Forgive? HA! I wish there were 52 million more like you.

You're American, there was never anything to forgive.

[kid a]

5. Whats a bramble bush?

[madfloridian]

6. Read Brer Rabbit . It tells all about bramble bushes

http://www.otmfan.com/html/brertar.htm

Briar patch, bramble bush, same thing.

[kid a]

9. gotcha..thanks!

[SoCalDem]

43. republicans are champions at the Briar Patch politics

and most dems fall for it every time...

[madfloridian]

55. Very good point you make.

That is the most striking part of this video. It just pops out at you.

[redstate_democrat]

7. kick

[ThatBozGuy]

8. K&R

[thoughtcrime1984]

10. K&R

[madfloridian]

11. I had posted about that floor episode before.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

"Geller's letter to Dean:

The Democratic Leadership in the Florida Senate and House of Representatives attempted to adhere to the rules of the DNC by offering amendments to keep the presidential preference primary on February 5, 2008. A copy of the amendment offered by myself and the Senate Democratic Leader Pro Tempore is included with this letter. An identical amendment was filed by the House Democratic Leader and the House Democratic Leader Pro Tempore. But as we are still the minority party in a Republican controlled Legislature, our amendments were overwhelmingly defeated. Simply put—we were outvoted, a scenario which - I’d like to caution - will be difficult to change should you move forward with any sanctions because of the primary date change.

In addition, while our amendments failed, we as Democrats voted for the final product. The legislation we supported finally moved our state from the punch lines into the headlines with regard to election reform, including the creation of a verifiable paper trail, a change long overdue. A verifiable paper trail was one of our Caucus priorities and important to many members of Congress as well."

They voted 115 to 1...All they had to do was vote no.

[barb162]

42. Can you figure out a solution?

It drives me batty that Florida's and MI's voter won't count. Millions of people basically disenfranchised. I read one Florida man 's letter on a blog saying he was leaving the Dem. Party over this because any party that treats people this way, who needs 'em.

[madfloridian]

45. I am not sure there is one as long as truth is not told.

I do know that everything I have read and posted about indicates that Dean and the rules committee will do everything within the rules to let the delegates be seated at the convention...but for the votes to count it must be within the rules.

There are a lot of people who are not planning on voting....they will have to do what they have to do.

[barb162]

46. There was one time I went to vote and they wouldn't let me vote

as I wasn't on their computer list all of a sudden even though I had not changed my address. I went back there with my damned voting card the County sends out before every election and they still wouldn't let me vote. I was LIVID. Positively LIVID!

This is millions of people who are being denied who did their civic duty. It's atrocious. I think Dean should just break the stupid rules THIS time and not penalize the voters of two states over something which they had no control.

[madfloridian]

49. Whatever you think.

I disagree.

[barb162]

50. Okay, what do you think should happen

if Florida is unwilling to pay for a revote, which the last I read is the case?

[madfloridian]

51. Let the credentials committee handle it as they should.

UNLESS some big Democrats get tired and jump in.

The rules committee won't hear it in April..so I guess July for the credentials committee.

I am so damn tired of the victimhood.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

97. The problem was Geller et all wanted to move the primary up

even though they pretend they didn't.

The video shows it.

[donheld]

12. That fool on the tape has such a nasty little smirk

I wonder if he's smirking now.

[anonymeme]

16. What's a Dem in a Repub State Legislature Supposed to Do When They Just Laughed Off His Amendment?

What's a Dem in a Repub State Legislature Supposed to Do When They Just Laughed Off His Amendment?

Throw a hissy fit and get ousted or be unable to work with any of the Repugs on anything from that point on?

Or laugh good-naturedly if with the appropriate sarcasm and say well, Hell, I tried?

Do you clueless creatures have the faintest idea how government works at all?

You who want to force your greenhorn candidate on those of us who've been around and know a thing or two?

It's just so obvious that you will do anything to win at all costs and don't give a damn about the facts or the Truth in the slightest degree!

[donheld]

20. You didn't have on your listening ears. They did just the opposite of

what you said. They voted for his amendment and he wanted them to.

[Exilednight]

24. Did you not pay attention to the video?

[madfloridian]

34. Did you just call us "clueless creatures"? LOL Did FL send you

to straighten us out here?

You said:

"Do you clueless creatures have the faintest idea how government works at all?

You who want to force your greenhorn candidate on those of us who've been around and know a thing or two?

It's just so obvious that you will do anything to win at all costs and don't give a damn about the facts or the Truth in the slightest degree!"

[berni_mccoy]

36. "No Sir, we REALLY REALLY Want this."

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

98. it was the Dem who was laughing,

he was making an empty gesture to "cover his ass" but if you click on
the video link, you will hear him joking about it.

[anonymeme]

13. A WMA File of Geller Arguing for the Primary To Be Feb 5 & How the Repugs Scoffed & Indicated NO WAY

Here is A WMA File of Geller Arguing for the Primary To Be Feb 5 & How the Repugs Scoffed & Indicated NO WAY

http://www.dangelber.com/audio/RepGelberexchangewithRep...

or http://www.fladems.com/page/m/5604151d267acffc/s8CJH8/V... /


This is from the http://www.fladems.com / page that follows:

Party Statement on Primary Situation
Dear Florida Democrats,

For a year now, the Florida Democratic Party has tried to comply with the Delegate Selection Rules of the Democratic National Committee.

We researched every potential alternative process - from caucuses to county conventions to mail-in elections - but no plan could come anywhere close to being viable in Florida.

We made a detailed case to the DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee, but we were denied.

Our Democratic legislators in Tallahassee tried to set the Florida primary on Feb. 5, instead of Jan. 29, but of course, their proposed amendment to House Bill 537 was greeted with laughter and derision from the Republicans who control the state government.

Does '537' ring a bell? It should. It's the number of votes that separated Texas Gov. George W. Bush and Vice President Al Gore in Florida in 2000.

It's the number that sent this country and this world in a terrible direction.

We can't let 537 - or the Republicans - determine our future again.

President Bush plans to stop in Florida tomorrow to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars for the Republican National Committee's efforts to elect his successor in November.

The last thing America needs is a third Bush term. Despite the widespread anxiety that working families feel, not to mention the broad agreement among economists that we are in a recession, President Bush and John McCain blindly believe that the economy is strong.

And let me remind you that John McCain endorsed President Bush's decision to deny health care to thousands of Florida children by vetoing an expansion of the successful SCHIP program. McCain also promises to jeopardize the financial security of Florida seniors by privatizing Social Security. He continually threatens to push Florida's military families to the brink by keeping American troops in Iraq for "100 years" or more.

This is why we are Democrats, and this is why we must stick together, no matter where this ongoing delegate debate takes us.

Last week, the Florida Democratic Party laid out the only existing way that we can comply with DNC Rules - a statewide revote run by the Party - and asked for input.

Thousands of people responded. We spent the weekend reviewing your messages, and while your reasons vary widely, the consensus is clear: Florida doesn't want to vote again.

So we won't.

A party-run primary or caucus has been ruled out, and it's simply not possible for the state to hold another election, even if the Party were to pay for it. Republican Speaker of the Florida House Marco Rubio refuses to even consider that option. Florida is finally moving to paper ballots, which is a good thing, but it means that at least 15 counties do not have the capacity to handle a major election before the June 10th DNC primary deadline.

This doesn't mean that Democrats are giving up on Florida voters. It means that a solution will have to come from the DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee, which is scheduled to meet again in April.

When this committee stripped us of 100% of our delegates last year, some members summed up their reasoning by saying, "The rules are the rules." Unfortunately, the rules did not apply to Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina when they, too, violated the DNC calendar by moving from their assigned dates.

As the late great Democratic President Franklin D. Roosevelt once said, "We must adjust our ideas to the facts of today... Rules are not necessarily sacred, principles are."

The Florida Democratic Party has stuck to its principles throughout this debate. We've remained open-minded while never wavering from our commitment to an open and fair election that would allow all Florida Democrats to participate, whether serving in Iraq, retiring in Boca, studying abroad or entertaining at a theme park.

Another late great President -Abraham Lincoln, a Republican - said, "A house divided against itself cannot stand."

If Democrats heed this wisdom, we will win in November.

America needs a great president again, but a President McCain will settle for the status quo and carry on the disastrous Bush tradition.

President Clinton or President Obama will make history and lead this nation in a new direction.

Let's remember this as the delegate debate continues. We must stick together as Democrats. The stakes are too high and the opportunities too great.

I will keep you posted on any major developments. Thank you for your concern and your commitment.

Sincerely,

Congresswoman Karen L. Thurman
Chair, Florida Democratic Party

http://www.fladems.com/content/w/party_statement_on_pri...

[madfloridian]

29. That just ignores the video. I read that post at FDP. Not convincing.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

[psychmommy]

86. mad i was checking out the link fladems.com

if you go back to september 2007 it just backs up everything you have been saying. in the party officials own words. they knew their delegates wouldn't be seated. check it out-more links to bolster your already strong argument.

[madfloridian]

88. Yes, they knew it. Of course they did.

Some even admitted it to folks, that they knew it was a big risk. They wanted to be first, and they were quite willing to make Dean the scapegoat.

I got an email from a county chair saying to contact the DNC and stop donations. We had words, they never did understand that county Democratic chairs should not be trying to undermine the party.

There is that mindset here.

[madfloridian]

35. That is GELBER in the audio...Dan that is. I posted a video of GELLER

Please learn your state leaders before you start after me.

GELBER...House

GELLER....Senate

[JVS]

14. Who did he think he'd fool with that?

[Forkboy]

15. Remind me NEVER to get on your bad side.

My entire life history would be posted here within the day.

[writes3000]

19. LMAO but so true!! Madfloridian is a badass! n/t

[madfloridian]

39. Heh heh....I would never do that to you.

[Forkboy]

54. Whew

I have more skeletons in my closet than the Addam's Family.

[redstate_democrat]

18. kick

[Window]

21. K/R and bookmarked.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

22. Kick

[Voice for Peace]

23. thanks madf! nt

[MelissaB]

25. K&R

Thanks again, Madfloridian!

[HooptieWagon]

26. Great job, madfloridian

Yes, if the Fla Dems had voted against moving the primary date up, then even if they had been outvoted by the reps the DNC would have found a way to count Florida's delegates. Dean has explicitly said so. But b/c they acted with the Fla Reps to violate the agreed upon DNC rules, FL was penalized. The fault is totally with the Dems in the Fla Legislature, and FDP leadership.

[BooScout]

27. Had they voted no....

They wouldn't have had a paper trail to prevent hanging chads.

[madfloridian]

30. That old argument again?

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

[Adelante]

33. k

[madfloridian]

37. Gelber and Geller....they are not the same person.

This is to the person above who seems to think so.

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

[catgirl]

38. K&R

[Ichingcarpenter]

40. kick nominated n/t

[Debi]

41. K & R

[Coexist]

44. kick!

[Scurrilous]

47. K & R

[Johnny__Motown]

48. WOW, Great Video.... thanks..... I hope some Dem runs against that guy and uses it in a TV ad

[ZinZen]

52. Great find Mad. Kick and Rec.

[davsand]

53. Over time I have realized there are folks on DU that I trust completely.

You, (madfloridian and orangepeel) are two of those people I trust without reservation. You have both been good solid Dems the entire time I have known you, and you have been active in your local politics. When you tell me something about Florida politics I feel like I can take it to the bank and this time is no exception.

If you two say the Florida Dem politicians screwed the pooch on this early primary decision, then I will continue to say that the DNC is not at fault in this year's mess.

One of the many things I continue to celebrate about DU is the fact that this board has so many people in so many different locations it is always possible to find SOMEBODY that knows what is happening locally.




Laura

[madfloridian]

56. Nice thing to say, and I agree about orangepeel.

She is very knowledgable about party business.

[riskpeace]

57. It was part of a verified voting bill.

The Florida Democratic legislators voted for a verified voting bill that got rid of touch screens and mandated a paper trail. The GOP added the primary move to the bill.

I think that reasonable people can differ on who is responsible for this obvious mess. But to me, the right to have my vote counted is fundamental. I'm through with a party whose petty squabbles have disenfranchised me. It's ironic that a registered Republican in an open primary state will have more of a voice in this historic primary than this registered Democratic voter and long-time contributor.

The RNC and the Republican Party of Florida have played the DNC for fools yet again.

[madfloridian]

60. Just watch the video. That is all I have to say.

There were many other bad things in the bill that the Democrats winked at and let pass.

They wanted this early primary since early 2006, according to the Dem party spokesperson, Mark Bubriski.

[riskpeace]

62. I did watch the video and I read your link about Bubriski.

I disagree with you. As I mentioned, I acknowledge that people can have different perspectives on the issue. I just think the votes of 1.75 million Democratic voters in Florida are more important than a pissing contest between whoever.

I think that disenfranchising your base in two key swing states is idiotic. I also believe that the RPOF has completely boxed in the DNC for another election. The DNC needs to change that 50-state strategy thing to the 48-state strategy.

[madfloridian]

63. So do whatever you need to do. You can sue...everyone else has.

You can whine, everyone else is. You can refuse to take responsibility for the actions of your leaders. Join the club...Florida is like that.

Or you can keep saying you were disenfranchised....yeh, that'll work.

[riskpeace]

64. Did you read my post?

I acknowledge your perspective but do not agree with it. And you project "whining" and "refusing to take responsibility" onto me. Also, since you are from Florida and a Democrat, why do you refer to Democratic leaders in Florida as "your leaders" and not "our leaders." That is odd.

I am not just saying that I was disenfranchised, I am being disenfranchised. I voted along with 1.7 million other Democratic Florida voters in a closed primary; and my vote is not being counted.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/disenfranchis...

disenfranchise

Main Entry:
dis·en·fran·chise Listen to the pronunciation of disenfranchise
Pronunciation:
\ˌdis-in-ˈfran-ˌchīz\
Function:
transitive verb
Date:
1664

: to deprive of a franchise, of a legal right, or of some privilege or immunity; especially : to deprive of the right to vote
— dis·en·fran·chise·ment Listen to the pronunciation of disenfranchisement \-ˌchīz-mənt, -chəz-\ noun

[madfloridian]

65. However you feel, that is your right.

If you stand behind leaders in Florida who got us in this mess. that is your right.

If you feel like your vote doesn't count, don't vote.

please stop whining. Get out and do something about it.

[riskpeace]

68. Your projections are silly.

I am not whining. There is a perspective different from yours. The DNC came down with the arbitrary over-reaction. The RNc stripped half the delegates. There was a alternate path once the primary date was moved.

It is a fact that my vote in the Florida Democratic primary does not count. Please show me a post where I said that I was not going to vote. There is no such post.

You are very presumptive to make any assumptions about what I am or am not doing.

You are doing all this projection, in my opinion, to avoid two points I made. First, that in all your voluminous posts on this matter, you have consistently left out the link to a verified voting bill. Second, I wondered why a Florida Democratic voter called the Florida Democratic leaders "your leaders" and not "our leaders."

[madfloridian]

69. Well, we apparently do not have mutual admiration for each other

That is pretty obvious.

[riskpeace]

70. I disagree with you.

That has nothing to do with my admiration for you. I do not even know you.
I tend not to personalize disagreements.

You still have not addressed my two points.

[madfloridian]

72. I have addressed all points in the months I have written about it.

At one time or the other.

Updated list of my journal postings about the Florida primary fiasco.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida Democrats invade Georgia
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Dean told not to plan a vacation in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Court decision on March 17 could determine who Democratic nominee is.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida Democrats thought they would only lose "half" the delegates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Dean says FL and MI would not negotiate with the DNC...took it public instead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida, Michigan and the Jackasses That Over-reached
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Tampa op ed: "Arrogance Cost Florida Chance To Influence Election"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Terry McAuliffe wants to change horses in the middle of the stream.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

From instigator to victim. It was a Dem who introduced the early primary bill in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

How it began last August....how Florida Democrats began their propaganda war
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Jeremy Ring (D-FL) said "relevance is more important than "partying" in Denver.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

The worst part is that this very day FL Dems still shift blame....
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Is Hillary's campaign being run as a "shadow DNC" for her benefit?
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

More Florida shenanigans and more insults to Dean from that state.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Think I exaggerate about Florida's attitude? Here's a county chairperson's rant against Dean.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Enough of this. Florida Democrats now threaten Dean and the DNC with a "voting rights probe".
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

The "appropriate legal official" to "investigate" Dean and the DNC...is...Gonzales.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Nelson: "I will lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to let them in."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Two summaries of the DNC committee ruling about Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local email.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed. Much argument here today.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Democratic activist sues over loss of Florida delegates
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

"Dean was conciliatory and offered DNC help for the state"..hour long phone call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Bill Nelson today will file a bill for regional primaries...but first he had to get your attention
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Pelosi says it is not Florida's fault at all. So if the speaker says it I must be wrong.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

"Florida Democrats are all for it"...March 2006. All for the early primary that far ahead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Details on how Florida worked with the GOP to set the early primary date.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get near Boston.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Nelson and Levin of Michigan file the bill today. It's getting deeper
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

My postings about the heartbreak of the Florida primary fiasco.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida Dems at convention have button that says "Screw Dean"...very classy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Senate leader ponders suing 'rogue states' over primary
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

[riskpeace]

108. Thanks for the links

As I've said, I respect your commitment to this issue and your perspective. I just disagree with you.

In your impressive collection of links, I did not see one where you pointed out the link between the move of the primary date and the verified voting bill. You were very vocal about how it was the Democratic leader's fault because they all voted for it. But you consistently left out the connection to the bill that got rid of touch screens and got a paper trail.

If I missed a link with this fact, I apologize for my oversight. But I did not see one.

[ooglymoogly]

91. My bet is you were never there

[riskpeace]

109. What do you mean

that I was never there? I'm happy to have a discussion with you, but I do not understand.

If you are suggesting that I do not live in Florida or did not vote in the Florida Democratic primary, then you would lose your bet.

[grantcart]

58. What is wrong with these people? The one guy who voted against it should be made head of the party

[wileedog]

87. LOL

Exactly

[Kurovski]

59. K&R.

Thank you.

[progressoid]

61. marking this for a late night viewing. Thx Madf!

[madfloridian]

66. It's very short, only less than 2 minutes I think.

It is just so pitiful.

[progressoid]

99. Pitiful is an understatement. What a buffoon.

I don't even want to think about the damage he and his pals have done to the party (as well as Florida voters).

Is this getting out to the people of Fl or is the blame the DNC and Dean argument the prevailing attitude?

[madfloridian]

101. No, Nelson and Thurman are on TV bashing Dean...Corinne Brown says resign.

The media here are relentless.

[progressoid]

102. Aw jeez, sorry to hear that.

Here's hoping everything doesn't completely fall apart.

I'm going to make my first trek to FL in a couple months. First vacation I've had in years. I'm going to try to avoid the political stuff for a few days and have an actual vacation.

[nell2323]

67. Kick

[fadedrose]

71. kick

[tkmorris]

75. That video link crashes my browser, IE and Firefox

Anyone have a different link? Perhaps one that isn't in Quicktime format?

[madfloridian]

76. Hang on, I saw it at You Tube. Will find it. OK found it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rpHuQi17EaE

[tkmorris]

78. Awesome

Thanks a ton Mad.

[ooglymoogly]

93. thanx, went to Utube and gave it 5 and a save to

[tammywammy]

77. Another excellent post madfloridian!

[gulfcoastliberal]

79. K&R! nt

[BumRushDaShow]

80. K&R

[ToughLuck]

84. Florida is its own worst enemy..I cringe when I hear that state even mentioned

Gore still does too maybe.

[Pawel K]

Self-Delete, Duplicate Post

[Pawel K]

85. But this will not stop the lie that Obama is responsible

facts dont stop many hillary supporters around here.

[madfloridian]

89. No, you are right. It won't. They will keep on blaming Obama.

They have blamed Dean, and the media here attack him viciously every day.

They will blame Obama the same way, unrelentingly.

[ingac70]

90. Kick!

[Capn Sunshine]

92. I hope the voters in Fla realize how they were screwed by their own State Party

There's nothing in the DNC rules that allows for stupid fucking idiots, which is just as well because Howard Dean would never utter that phrase. He's too classy for that, which is what those assholes in Florida and Michigan counted on all along.

[madfloridian]

94. No. they do not realize it. All they get is propaganda. Funny cartoon I found.

I won't even post some of it.

It is like being in a different world here.

I never did think he should be chair..I don't know if you remember how we used to talk about how he would marginalized, forced to be quiet.

This was done deliberately by those two states. Want to see a cartoon? I'll be blasted for posting it, maybe you would like to do so.

It is from

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/horsey/viewbydate.asp?id=...

[Vickers]

95. Again, I'm just glad to be saving money during the primary season...

...hell, that might carry over to the General.