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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:06 PM
Original message
Vatican Calls Saddam Execution "tragic"
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 05:17 PM by sandnsea
"The Vatican on Saturday condemned the execution of Saddam Hussein as a "tragic" event and warned that it risked fomenting a spirit of vendetta and sowing fresh violence in Iraq.

"A capital punishment is always tragic news, a reason for sadness, even if it deals with a person who was guilty of grave crimes," said Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi."


http://www.thestar.com/News/article/166507


And Deplores Israel's Attacks on Lebanon

"Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Angelo Sodano said Pope Benedict and his aides were very worried that the developments in the Middle East risked degenerating into "a conflict with international repercussions."

"In particular, the Holy See deplores right now the attack on Lebanon, a free and sovereign nation, and assures its closeness to these people who already have suffered so much to defend their independence," he told Vatican Radio.

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060714/3/2n5ti.html
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. The Vatican Can Say Anything??
Come on, where's the outrage?

:shrug:

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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. If Michelle Obama said this or anything similiar, there would be outrage.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. That's the white religion...they're allowed to be "outrageous"
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. What, did they just hear about it?
Like predicting bad results from the execution a year after the fact. Prophetic accuracy is easier that way.

But seriously, capital punishment is a big issue, as the spokesman writes. Hard to see this as news to anyone, though.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I wonder what Rev Wright said
about Saddam's execution, since everything he's said for the past 20 years is important "news" to Hillary's supporters.
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Innocent Smith Donating Member (466 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Yes they had just heard about it when they said it
The quote is from 2006 - right after the execution.
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greguganus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. Damn the news runs slow in Vatican City. n/t
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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:37 PM
Original message
Nah, this poster is just desperate
to find something s/he can pass off to the gullible as the equivalent of "God damn America."
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
11. The Vatican routinely condemns the US
many churches do. It's not different than Wright, except he's black.
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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. The Catholic Church has been consistent in its opposition
to the death penalty--for anyone. How awful of them. :sarcasm:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. And Rev Wright is consistent
in his opposition to oppression of people, how awful of him.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Word!
:hi:
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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. You had better sit down and get a grip.
I actually agree with much of what Rev. Wright says about oppression of people of color and the injustices of U.S. foreign policy. I'll cop to being a political junkie, but I'm about as nationalistic as a stalk of broccoli. I'm bi-racial, bi-national and was multi-cultural before there was a word for it. You're talking to someone who was there way before you, cupcake.

The issue here is what will be made of Wright's words, specifically the "God damn America" quote, in the general if Obama is the nominee. Most American voters, including most Obama supporters, don't have the emotional investment in the man that his devotees in the GDP hothouse do. Most are not going to brush his connection to Wright off as irrelevant. All that's going to be necessary to elect President McCain if Obama is the nominee is an ad juxtaposing "God damn America" with Obama's "I do not denounce Rev. Wright" from Olberman last night, running 24/7 from August to November. There go the moderates, there go the indies, there go the military voters, there go the Republican cross-overs.

Barring a miracle, this is a politically fatal wound. The only question is how long it's going to take the party elders to haul Obama off the field.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Get a grip???
I am so sick of the racists on this board. The Catholic Church makes radical statements of all sorts, all the time. If the Pope were black, watch how quick all these remarks would be dug up and the Church would fade into oblivion. These same comments would be used against Wright too, regardless of anything else Wright has said. He's black and America is as much afraid of a black uprising today as they were in the slave days. It's sickening.
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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. The Catholic Church is a multi-racial organization. An African Cardinal
was in fact one of the most touted as a successor to JPII. Had a black Pope said what Benedict XVI said, he would be promulgating the settled doctrine of the church--nothing more, nothing less.

You need to stop defining everyone who doesn't support Obama as a racist. It may give you a fine sense of moral superiority, but it's a lie. It's another lie that racism is a failing only of white people. It's a human failing, and there's plenty of it to go around.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Bull.Shit.
I've posted a series of inflammatory remarks made by the Church, similar to the ones made by Rev Wright. It's pure racism that nobody bats an eye when the Catholic Church says it, but goes into a tizz when a black minister says it. Same as white America did when MLK said similar things. Pull your head out of the sand.
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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Sorry, but the Pope's comments aren't really inflammatory to anyone
but anti-Catholic bigots like Hagee.

Now, maybe if you could find a clip of Ben or JPII yelling "God damn America" and dry-humping the pulpit, you'd have a case.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Becaue Sean Hannity didn't tell you they were
If Sean Hannity were screaming about Wright saying the US was being "inhuman" to immigrants, or sympathizing with Saddam's executioners, or condemning Israel for defending itself against Lebanese terrorists, then you would be joining him.
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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Sorry. Don't listen to Hannity.
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 10:01 PM by okasha
Try again. See if you can be coherent this time.

I'm aware of how un-inflammatory the Pope's comments were because I went to a Catholic school from 4th grade up. Part of that multi-cultural thing I mentioned.
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
8. The Roman Catholic Church is opposed to capital punishment.
Such opposition used not to be a controversial stand on Democratic Underground.



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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Opposition to US militarism
used to not be a controversial stand on DU either.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Goes to the environment created this week your honor
Condemning the execution of an enemy of America means you are Unamerican and disqualified for higher office.

Just ask 41.1 % of the posters here, they will tell you.
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
15. They never were really soft on crime. Look at some of the
punishments for the original seven sins. Some of the punishments look fatal to me.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3...

The original offences and their punishments
Pride Broken on the wheel
Envy Put in freezing water
Gluttony Forced to eat rats, toads, and snakes
Lust Smothered in fire and brimstone
Anger Dismembered alive
Greed Put in cauldrons of boiling oil
SlothThrown in snake pits


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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. You are aware that the "Inferno" is a work of imagination?
Apparently not.
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. Yes, I am aware, and here is more info for you
Yes, I know about Dantes Inferno, and Ive also heard mention of Pope Gregory - apparently you have not.

From the reference in the earlier post we can find:

<snip>Although there is no definitive list of mortal sins, many believers accept the broad seven deadly sins or capital vices laid down in the 6th century by Pope Gregory the Great and popularised in the Middle Ages by Dante in The Inferno: lust, gluttony, avarice, sloth, anger, envy and pride.<snip>

And for your reading pleasure, I have included the new seven sins. And look! Pope Gregory is mentioned again.

The Inferno was/is imaginary, but supercilious is not.

http://www.thedaily.com.au/news/2008/mar/11/seven-new-d... /

<snip>Just as life was back in the 6th Century when Pope Gregory the Great declared the original seven sins, they were a lot simpler. However, their punishment was still no fun at all:
1. Pride - Broken on the wheel
2. Envy - Put in freezing water
3. Gluttony -Forced to eat rats, toads, and snakes
4. Lust - Smothered in fire and brimstone
5. Anger - Dismembered alive
6. Greed - Put in cauldrons of boiling oil
7. Sloth - Thrown in snake pits
The new sins are a lot less black and white:
1. "Bioethical" violations such as birth control
2. "Morally dubious" experiments such as stem cell research
3. Drug abuse
4. Polluting the environment
5. Contributing to widening divide between rich and poor
6. Excessive wealth
7. Creating poverty



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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. And, the punishments are different in the "Purgatorio."
From Dante's Purgatorio:

First Terrace. The proud are purged by carrying giant stones on their backs, unable to stand up straight (Cantos X through XII). This teaches the sinner that pride puts weight on the soul and it is better to throw it off.

Second Terrace. The envious are purged by having their eyes sewn shut and wearing clothing that makes the soul indistinguishable from the ground (Cantos XIII through XV). This is akin to a falconer's sewing the eyes of a falcon shut in order to train it. God is the falconer and is training the souls not to envy others and to direct their love towards Him.

Third Terrace. The wrathful are purged by walking around in acrid smoke (Cantos XV through XVII). Souls correct themselves by learning how wrath has blinded their vision, impeding their judgment.

Fourth Terrace. The slothful are purged by continually running (Cantos XVIII and XIX). Those who were slothful in life can only purge this sin by being zealous in their desire for penance.

Fifth Terrace. The avaricious and prodigal are purged by lying face-down on the ground, unable to move (Cantos XIX through XXI). Excessive concern for earthly goodswhether in the form of greed or extravaganceis punished and purified. The sinner learns to turn his desire from possessions, power or position to God.

Sixth Terrace. The gluttonous are purged by abstaining from any food or drink (Cantos XXII through XXIV). Here, the soul's desire to eat a forbidden fruit causes its shade to starve. To sharpen the pains of hunger, the former gluttons on this terrace are forced to pass by cascades of cool water without stopping to drink.

Seventh Terrace. The lustful are purged by burning in an immense wall of flames (Cantos XXV through XXVII). All of those who committed sexual sins, both heterosexual and homosexual, are purified by the fire. Excessive sexual desire misdirects one's love from God and this terrace is meant to correct that.
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Drachasor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
18. I'm againt ALL capital punishment too
And I'm an atheist.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Are you a spiritual adviser to a Presidential candidate?
No???

Oh, then that would be the difference between you and the point of the post.
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Drachasor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Is the vatican? My point is that being against capital punishment is nothing that should be...
demonized.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Yep
We've had candidates who are Catholic, all kinds of politicians who are Catholic. They weren't called to take responsibility for the Vatican's view of the US executing Saddam, which in most US circles would be considered outrageous.
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Drachasor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I know. It is so hard to have a decent discussion in America when so much is "outrageous"
I was just referring to the current Presidential candidates though.

Anyhow, I think part of the Catholic thing is that so many Catholics pick and choose what tenets to follow and that's a generally accepted fact. Also, I don't think this story is nearly as bad as the knee-jerk reaction to the contentless "god damn America" part of Wright's speech.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Most US Catholics are absolutely clueless
to what the Vatican and priests around the globe teach regarding poverty and oppression. The reason none of it gets reported as "outrageous" is because it's white mainstream, safe. Look at the crazy shit Falwell and Robertson have said, they've called for assassinations for chrissake. It blows over in a day or two and on we go. The reason this is a problem is because it comes from a black church.
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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. The Pope made those statements in December of 2006.
How many national elections have we had since then?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Uh, Biden, Kucinich??
I know they're Catholic.

:shrug:

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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. And they were among the first casualties of the primaries.
If you feel they need to account for the Pope's statements, by all means call them out on them. Kennedy and Kerry, too.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Why haven't they been? That's the point. n/t
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
19. Good for pope baby
the death penalty is barbaric and the execution of Saddam a shameful episode.
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theredpen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
27. The should withdraw from the primary immediately!!!!
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
38. Good point. I don't think Wright fright is gonna stick.
It plays to the Mason-Dixon white rage vote, but I think we're seeing diminishing returns on race card and the CIA I mean Clinton campaign doesn't seem to have much left in its bag of tricks.
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