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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:46 PM
Original message
'Homosexual practice is incompatible with Christian teachings'
That is the stated policy of Hillary Clinton's church.

Has she denounced, rejected, or condemned this teaching?
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Her church in the sense of where she goes, or her Protestant denomination? NT
NT
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moriah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. Good question...
This is what I've been able to find out about the Methodist church Bill and Hillary attended when in DC:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

One of the more liberal Methodist churches, apparently, in regards to recognition of the rights of LGBT members.

She taught Sunday school at the United Methodist Church in Little Rock, I'm not aware of any particular record that particular church has for or against homosexuality.

According to religioustolerance.org there has been a movement within the Methodist church to recognize gay marriage and to promote tolerance of homosexuality. As the Methodists are one of the more moderate denominations in this country, the issue has actually come up and been a source of conflict -- in more conservative denominations homosexuals are strongly denounced, in the very liberal denominations (like the UCC, which has a great record of support for the rights of the LGBT community) the issue was relatively easy to resolve in the favor of LGBT recognition/rights.

So at least one of the churches she attended for eight years or so, and possibly attends when in DC, has a pro-gay-rights congregation/pastor.
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moriah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
24. More on Hillary's religious leaders and homosexuality
Here's a reference to Don Jones, the youth minister who was apparently too radical for the Methodist church she was raised in, talking about her views on homosexuality.

"Perspective is added by Don Jones, Hillary's youth minister, the man who opened her eyes to the world beyond the fragrant azaleas and scraped Girl Scout knees of her childhood suburb. He took her to meet Martin Luther King Jr., took her into Chicago's South Side to meet her poor, black coevals, strummed protest songs (inevitably!) on his guitar. Jones: "She definitely has a conservative streak...particularly on abortion, homosexuality, and capital punishment. Surely, she is for gay rights, there's no question about that. But I think both she and Bill still think of heterosexuality as normative." And so on."

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20000207/tomasky/2

I'd like to see the full quote without the ellipses, have to wonder what they decided to leave out there to get the quote. She is pro-choice even if she says she is personally opposed to abortion, is in favor of the death penalty but sponsored the Innocence Protection Act requiring DNA testing before federal executions, etc.

More as I find it....
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. This thread is going to be awesome.
:popcorn:
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. lesbian ex-methodist here...
skootch ovah... :popcorn:
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
36. keep going, you think you own the place?
:popcorn:
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kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
38. Methodist churshes vary widely. Our church wasn't like that - was very liberal.
Edited on Mon Mar-17-08 01:01 AM by kerry-is-my-prez
Mine was in Michigan. They were pro-choice and preached tolerance. I did know of a few other Methodist churches in Michigan that were a bit more conservative.
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JackBeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. I love you.
And bi_baby, too, but I just got back from the gym and this is the first thing I see.

I saw earlier today you get called racist and then undemocratic. How do you even go on with life?

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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Thanks, and backatcha
:loveya:

I know, I know, I can't even look in the mirror.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. do I have to go kick someone's ass
no one best be messing with you!


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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
30. Pass some over here.
:popcorn:
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #30
37. what's our chuch's position on homosexuality?
:yoiks:
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jesus_of_suburbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. She didn't have McClurkin speak for her.
Nice try to deflect Wright though.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. Ooh, this should be interesting. I'm curious to watch the frothing Hillbots spin this one.
:popcorn:




(please note, I am not saying all Hillary supporters are frothing or Hillbots - very few of them. But DU seems to have a lot of Hillary supporters who ARE Frothing Hillbots).
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Why?
Do you think we're unaware of the Methodist church's stance?

Manny wants Clinton to make a theological denunciation, not a political one.
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Not the Only One Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. She won't denounce that until after PA.
Her base of support in PA thinks gay people are going to be in a lake of fire for eternity for being gay and they are okay with that outcome.
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
8. Yes, she does an immense amount of work with the HRC and marches in GLB parades.
Dumb and intentionally inflammatory.
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JackBeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. FYI:
The more commonly accepted acronym is GLBT.

And I won't return the insult.
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Sorry, typo LOL :-)
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
9. You should have embraced Marx instead of Jesus
The Pandora's box has been opened, and we are seeing the ugliness of religion. No one is immune, for there isn't a single Christian denomination that does not have a questionable past.
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NastyRiffraff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. As has been pointed out before
But I will point out again:

It's not about the church; it's about the pastor

There's nothing wrong with the UCC; nobody said there was. In fact, it trends liberal, but it's run by the individual congregations.

It's all about Rev. Wright and Obama's admitted very close relationship for 20 years. Nobody said Wright's positions are those of the UCC, because UCC positions are all over the place.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
11. Hmmmm really?
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 02:57 PM by maddiejoan
Here's a neato letter from Hillary's pastor!

http://www.foundryumc.org/pdfs/A%20Pastoral%20Statement...

Hillary's church is the Foundry United Methodist Church in Mt. Pleasant.

Here's the website
http://www.foundryumc.org /

They are very supportive of same-sex unions there.

http://www.foundryumc.org/pdfs/Same%20Sex%20Union%20Iss...
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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. Hillary's Washington congregation is planning ceremonies to honor LGBT unions
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 03:04 PM by okasha
By Jacqueline L. Salmon
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, February 15, 2008; Page B02

A conservative Christian group yesterday criticized a large Methodist church in the District for planning to offer services that recognize gay and lesbian relationships, saying they violate the United Methodist ban on same-sex unions.

Foundry United Methodist Church, which Bill and Hillary Rodham Clinton attended when he was president, decided last month to support its senior pastor's decision to lead services that "recognize and honor" committed gay relationships. Foundry clergy, however, do not perform union ceremonies, the local bishop said.

*****

Snyder's Nov. 11 pastoral letter said he wanted to remain obedient to church law and that the worship services would not be "ceremonies that celebrate homosexual unions.". . . Foundry's Church Council endorsed Snyder's letter last month. Schol said yesterday that the services do not violate church law.

"Foundry Church is working hard at being faithful to the United Methodist Church," he said, adding that Foundry is "also a congregation that is seeking to minister to the broad community that it serves."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...
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557188 Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. The perfect reply
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moriah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. You posted right as I did! :)
Looks like we both found the same article ... :)
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moriah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. actually you got it a bit first
I'm kinda slow typing... :)
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eggman67 Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. Meanwhile Wright opposed the UCC majority
and spoke against gay marriage....


http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail_ektid44651.asp


If Obama is indeed using religion to win votes, he unfortunately placed himself in a difficult quagmirenot only with LBGT voters but also with religious liberals. He worships in a conservative black church within a liberal denomination.

In July 2005, the UCC General Synod overwhelmingly passed a resolution of marriage equality. But in August 2005, Obama's pastor and inspiration for the title of his recent memoir The Audacity of Hope, the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, spoke against the synod's position.

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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Rev. Wright SUPPORTS marriage equality per this link:
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eggman67 Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. I'll write them and ask for clarification.
If the Advocate column (which I will include in my correspondence) is true, and he publically spoke against it, then there's a disconnect somewhere. I'll post what I find out when I get a response.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. I'm sure he only supports same sex marriage for blacks
:sarcasm:

:hi: Maat!


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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Hi!
:rofl:
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AGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. she also marches in gay pride parade..when is Obama going?
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 02:59 PM by AGirl
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
17. so is divorce, which the jesus character says is adultery, which is a commandment of some sort nt
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #17
31. Jesus said if your spouse cheats you can legitimately divorce and remarry.
Otherwise you are still free to divorce, but if you remarry you are committing adultery.
Divorcing is permissible.
Please stop misrepresenting Jesus.
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better tomorrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
28. almost spit my coffee out.....
re: denounced, rejected, or condemned this teaching......

BTW, what is the stated policy of Dick Cheney's church in this regard...I know his daughter doesn't agree with Hillary's Church then, eh?
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
33. WHY DIDN'T SHE SAY ANYTHING!@$#?!@$@#
She should've left immediately!
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
34. Has her pastor compared the United States to al Qaeda? Or called America the KKK of A?
Nice try, Manny. No cigar.
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Slagathor Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
35. Basically, it's incompatible with most religious teachings
another good reason to ban religion.
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californiaguy Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
39. Hi.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
40. Yeah, well, she's also a race-baiter, a liar, a (failed) cheater...
Par for the course.

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JackBeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
41. Obama believes that HIV was a government conspiracy.
So said his pastor.
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