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Frankly I don't give a shit if Obama knew what Wright was saying...

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jeffrey_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:32 PM
Original message
Frankly I don't give a shit if Obama knew what Wright was saying...
This situation has forced me to reflect about why I became a liberal, progressive democrat in the first place. It happened when I met my wife, who is African American. I was a white conservative kid from the heartland of Indiana who thought he knew everything. After meeting my wife and eventually hearing her stories about growing up on the south side of Chicago and her mom's stories about growing up poor in Mississippi during the 50's; I had a definite change in the way I saw the world and our country. Eventually, I had a complete paradigm shift about my views on racism and American history. It was at this time I dove head first into African American literature and really fine tuned my opinion about racism, our history as a country and other perspectives. This was about 5 years ago.

So now I see what J. Wright has been saying in his sermons and I'm really taken aback by the reaction of white America. It's frightening. I questioned Obama initially when this first came out, but after turning off the TV and taking a step back I'm outraged at the backlash of whites who think Wright's words represent some type of black-institutional racism against whites. It's fucking laughable.

And tell me that most of us here don't agree with what he said about 9/11? And tell me you wouldn't be pissed about serving your country for 7 years only to come back to that same country and be shit on while having to fight your own person battle for equal rights.

If this takes Obama down, I'm leaving the fucking country.

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LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think the difficulty is that Obama said he goes to Wright before making
important political decisions.

(L.A. Times, this morning)
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. What The Hell Is Wrong With That
Wright is an highly educated and respected intellect. Why shouldn't Obama get all sorts of opinions before he makes a decision?
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. The reaction is the most frightening thing about it
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 01:37 PM by Catherina
Thank you. My opinion is firmly similar to yours.



I knew we were behind other nations when it comes to race but I didn't realize we were that behind. If I have one thing to say it's "thank you White America for waking me the hell up". There I was thinking we were equal and shit. Silly me.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. well then why doesn't Obama embrace what Wright is saying
instead of saying he didn't know about it?
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jeffrey_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Because politically he can't. Nobody could ever win an election in this country
trying to "justify" those sentiments. Trust me, I'm surrounded by right-wing racists and this is a feeding frenzy for them.

Obama can't even begin to talk about race during his campaign, because race is a polarizing issue that brings up a lot of emotion.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. I have no problem with him agreeing with what Wright says
(though, you're right, it's politically fraught with danger), but I do have a problem with him lying about it and lying about having heard the words. I realize politicians have to lie at times, but this is a big part of who he is. It's as if he's lying about his own inner core belief system.
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kwenu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
40. You're so full of it. If this illegitimate crap is what you were concerned about you would
have been done with the Clinton's along time ago.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. I've been fairly consistent
in my reasons for being reticent about Obama, going back a number of months now. It has always had to do with trust - and this just adds to that perception. I'm very aware of Hillary's "professional politician" failings, but I actually trust her to do the right thing. I'm not there with Obama yet. So, we perceive this differently.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Why should he? So people who don't have a fucking clue
can drag out a bigger noose? n/t
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. Perhaps Obama is waiting for Wrights words to sink in!
Wright's words rang true for me. I imagine that for most centrists and right leaning people they seemed somewhat radical.

I am a 58 year old, white, grandmother and what he said to his congregation, is alot like what I say to my older grandchildren.

When we marched in the Anti-war marches, some of our chants may have singed the ears of onlookers. It was kind of like CHURCH for me!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opXl7xjE4iM


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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
28. Because Even Progressives Won't Uphold
what we know to be the truth. We cower or use mainstream thought as tools to an end (like getting the person we want elected). The end does not justify the means, ever. And you do reap what you sow.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. Obama is lying. About Wright / about Rezko
That is the issue. He lies. What does he stand for? I don't know. His actions are different than his words. He lies.

I will not support him just because his is black. I need more.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. Clintons are known to be easy liars.
At least Obama has come clean about his "negatives".

There is a world of lying from the Clintons covering up stuff that will make this look like kindergarten.
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
29. Lies?? If You Want To Talk About Liars Shouldn't You Be
focused on the current administration or doesn't that suit your agenda?
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
42. People aren't supporting him just because he is black. What
country do you think we live in? You are bothered by lies? Then Clinton can't be your candidate too because she lies like some people breathe.
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Saturday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. Red herring. The issue is that Obama lied to cover up not
whether we agree with what Wright said.
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. LOL
Sure it is.

McCain embraces the worst sort of bigotry, and that's just fine. The issue is that Obama is dangerously close to becoming President, so he must be stopped by any means possible.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Big issue.
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jeffrey_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. No, the issue is the fact Obama is NOT allowed to agree with Wright
He can, but then he'd be forced to leave the race.

It's really sad when you think about it.
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
30. And Just Like * Did With Iraq We Must Presume Him Guilty
until he can prove his innocence. :sarcasm:
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. Agreed
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. Even Ron Paul said that about 9/11
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. "...the reaction of white America."
And why is it that that's pretty much what it's all about? Because it's really about the reaction of a certain segment of white America that believes that the "white" part is more important than the "America" part. Wright was/is right.
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TexasLady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
14. There are many many people who dont 'get it'
Really Good post.
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barack the house Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
16. I'm glad you turned the TV off and it's great you took the time to understand. You have my ... ..
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 01:48 PM by barack the house
my deep respect. If more took your route things in America would be so much easier clearlyBarackis the answer he is of 2 races and can bridge the divide
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jeffrey_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. I went for a walk...
and ended up at Revolutionary Book Store. Had a nice talk with the folks who were working there and ended up purchasing three books. One about the first reconstruction period, one by Karl Marx and the last by William Kunstler.

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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
17. Interesting now that the media thinks Obama may be too black
A month ago he wasn't black enough....Last week he was a muslim and now he is a Christian but he hangs around with the wrong kind of Christians. Good thing he is lucky since he is black otherwise I might be worried.
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bigbrother05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
19. K and R
I just returned to this country, and I can't believe how behind we are culturally from the rest of the world. Came back to soon, I will join you, if this takes Obama down, and I am a white 55 year old women. I completely understood everything Wright said.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
22. Yeah you rite! Katrina taught me a lesson I will NEVER forget!
:grr:




























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jeffrey_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. America had a chance to learn something about itself after Katrina.
We dabbled in it, but it didn't looks so nice so we conveniently swept it under the rug.

We will continue to do so whenever we are forced to fast the past.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Well, we're still suffering here, so we cannot forget it.
Lucky for America we the people of New Orleans are very forgiving, but we will never forget.

Expect to see us ridiculing dumb Americans during Mardi Gras as long as New Orleans exists.



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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #22
54. Katrina should have taught us all lessons we will never forget, but
in the political climate we are currently in some have indeed forgotten.
Some never wanted to learn those lessons to begin with. Our country is
in more trouble than we most of us could ever imagine.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
24. What you said. n/t
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latinolatteliberal Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
27. i had a similar experience
I was angry seeing the reaction to "pastorgate," and then again seeing Sen. Obama's reaction to it. But it's true, he can't embrace Wright. So I chilled out a bit with some college basketball.

S se puede.
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girl_interrupted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Where was Obama, Oprah & Wright during Katrina?
I know where Condi Rice was....shoe shopping & going to the Theater in New York. And if memory serves me correctly..she's black. I didn't see any outrage by Obama or Oprah or Wright during Katrina. I didn't see any of them getting into a row boat like Sean Penn or delivering supplies like Al Gore. This whole black versus white theme is getting really stupid. Obama was raised by his white grandparents, not his black grandparents. White civil rights workers died so blacks could have the right to vote. We need each other, we need to work together. And we have. There is good and bad in every race. To generalize "all" is going to get us no where fast.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. The record is your friend. Obama's record on Hurrican Katrina
Oprah personally gave over 10 MILLION dollars and raised a lot more. Reverend Jeremiah Wright "gyrated" for nickels and thundered about poverty and the racism that allowed that to happen and stood by wringing its hands during a brief moment of consciencesness.

Here is part of Obama's record from a 3 second google. There's plenty more out there. If you care about this issue, you should look for yourself.





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Merlot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #32
57. I never watch Oprah
But she had two segments where she went to NO and toured the cenvention center and talked to people. It was very heartbreaking, as if I hadn't cried enough already.

Yes, Oprah was there at Katrina, and yes, she was outraged.
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Laughing Mirror Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
31. Yes it's frightening ... and laughable, all in one
Just like white America. As a half white person myself, still I can't get a grip on white America, either living there or watching from the other side of the ocean. White America is an obsessive culture, obsessed with any little thing that comes along that they imagine threatens them.

Get a grip white people!

jeffrey-x: Are you really going to leave America? I was thinking about coming back.

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jeffrey_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. leaving...
Oh..I don't know, I might be saying it jest. I do know that my wife and I have plans to live abroad at some point in our life. We are planning to do it within the next five years, but this might be the primer that puts our plans in motion.

Where are you?
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Laughing Mirror Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Paris
But am being compelled to return home to DC (after 25 years) to look out after family there.
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jeffrey_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. wow.
My wife is dying to move to paris. That is one of the places we are considering.

We were there for two weeks, two years ago. We could not get over the amount of inter-racial couples and children we saw while we were there. I would move there in a heartbeat if we could afford it.
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Laughing Mirror Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. You better be independently wealthy, or already know how to speak perfect French
Or you and your family are setting yourself up for extreme trials & tribulations. But I do see a lot of Americans here. Most of them seem to have a lot of money, or they don't last long.



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jeffrey_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Thanks.
Yea...I know it wouldn't be easy. My wife has been taking french classes for some time now and I could potentially set up a European satellite office for my company.

It's a long shot, but we'd like to get there.
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Laughing Mirror Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Things took a bad turn here recently against immigrants
Because of the Bush idolozier president Sarkozy elected last year, who seems to worship & adore all the abysmal products of the White America that Bush represents. But as the popularity of Sarkozy wanes, the political situation might be improving for new immigrants, so things may eventually work somehow in your favor if, Heaven Forbid, the situation in the US forces you out.

Good Luck to you whatever happens!
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kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. Agree with the OP, and some similar life experiences ...
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 04:20 PM by kwassa
I am white, my wife is African-American, she works for a French corporation, and goes to the company headquarters in Paris quarterly. And, oh yes, she speaks French which she learned as a grad student in Switzerland a long time ago. We would also like to try Paris if we could.

However, it is easy to live as an interracial couple in the US in many areas. There are others that are more racially polarized. It is not the same everywhere.

edit to add:

I agree with everything Jeffery_X said, except that I knew the racial deal before I even met my wife. Many white liberals, while well-meaning, really don't understand the black experience in this country. I recommend listening to black voices, many of them, without judgment, and understand they have an experience that you can simply never have. Respect their experience.
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jeffrey_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Agreed.
We live in a diverse neighborhood in Chicago and we never have any problems, although Chicago is still somewhat segregated and conservative.

I can't imagine living in a smaller town in the midwest.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
36. Aha. Now THERE's an opinion from somebody I feel is qualified.
A white guy married to a black American woman. You do indeed have a perspective that VERY few people here do, so I'm going to listen to what you have to say, and take it well under advisement...and keep an eye out for any other posts you write about this subject.

No sarcasm whatsoever in any of the above.

(Disclaimer: My wife is half black, but African, not American, so I don't get the same kind of perspective from her that you do from your wife.)

Redstone
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Tennessee Gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
45. I am sorry you don't see how this will hurt Obama in the GE.
And it will.

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kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. nobody will remember by then. too much more will happen,
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
48. I agree entirely with the OP. Half the people on this forum have
turned into something I never thought I'd see in the Democratic party. Maybe it's time to go Indy.
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moxie_1 Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
49. It isn't just what you say, but the way you say it
and where.
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jeffrey_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. meaning what?
eom
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BklynChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
51. word.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
52. The Reaction Has Little To Do With Race And All To Do With The Substance Of The Comments.
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 06:35 PM by OPERATIONMINDCRIME
No matter the color of the skin, someone that close to Obama for 20 years saying we should sing god damn america, that we infected blacks purposely with aids, and that we're responsible for 9/11, is going to have a severely damaging impact on his campaign. You want it to be about skin color, but it isn't. Just ask Ward Churchill.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
53. Amen!
Only with me, I met the truth head on when I became a social worker in '93 (retired several years back).

K&R
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
55. Thank You! I agree. Especially the totally uncontroversial Wright remarks about Hillary!
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shayes51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
56. Which airline to you prefer to leave on?
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. A one way ticket on Air Force One to the Hague
with the CIC in cuffs.
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