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Findlaw: Parallels Between Spitzer and Clinton, If Bill Resigned, Gore Wins, No Iraq, Strong Economy

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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:16 AM
Original message
Findlaw: Parallels Between Spitzer and Clinton, If Bill Resigned, Gore Wins, No Iraq, Strong Economy
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 10:18 AM by Dems Will Win


This legal analysis says it all. Bill Clinton should have resigned like Spitzer did, and then we would have had incumbent President Al Gore beating Bush in 2000, no Iraq War and maybe no 9-11! Our economic situation today would also be far, far better -- probably strong.

So this lawyer, too, blames President Clinton for not resigning when he should have done the honorable thing--like Eliot Spitzer is about to do on Monday.

Client 9 and President 42: Drawing Parallels Between Spitzer and Clinton


By SHERRY F. COLB
----
Thursday, Mar. 13, 2008

Doing the Honorable Thing in the End

In retrospect, however, many of the people who once stood by Bill Clinton may have come to see things in a new light. While hardly criminal, Clinton's relationship with Lewinsky was troubling and was symptomatic of a willingness to use power to exact sexual favors, often in contexts in which his partners were apparently less enthusiastic about participating than Monica was. Perhaps more importantly, the entirely foreseeable circus surrounding Clinton's affair with Monica had the effect of distracting his and everyone else's attention from the important work of the nation.

As Clinton said on the night that he apologized to the nation, "Now it is time - in fact, it is past time to move on. We have important work to do - real opportunities to seize, real problems to solve, real security matters to face." As he did not say, it would have been far easier to accomplish that work had Clinton stepped down and allowed Al Gore to become president. In the years that followed, of course, many other things would likely have been different if Clinton had taken that route.

It is difficult to praise Eliot Spitzer for resigning, because we cannot know what he would have done if he had had more friends willing to stand by him, as Bill Clinton did. He certainly behaved recklessly, just as Clinton had, and in a manner that would - once exposed - predictably undermine the force of the work that he and others had tried to do. But in stepping down, regardless of his motives, Spitzer has acted honorably and has paved the way for a new governor, David A. Paterson, to move Albany beyond the events of the last few days.

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/colb/20080313.html


This is the real lesson of Spitzer: Bill Clinton should have resigned and spared us all the agony of the Bush Administration. It was all predictable. No doubt Hillary insisted that he stay on, telling Bill the Senate did not have enough Republican votes to convict him, even though he would certainly be impeached. Always the lawyer.

Now with a collapsing economy, Bill Clinton NOT resigning is going to REALLY hurt.

Please write below what would have not happened or could have happened with 2 terms of President Gore instead of President Bush!

PLEASE RECOMMEND IF YOU WOULD HAVE RATHER HAD THE ALTERNATIVE UNIVERSE WHERE BILL STEPPED DOWN AND INCUMBENT PRESIDENT AL GORE WOULD HAVE BEATEN THE CRAP OUT OF DUBYA, NO IRAQ, STRONG ECONOMY, MAYBE NO 9-11
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End Of The Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. This is just BS on so many levels.
I don't know where to start, it's so asinine.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. So you think President Gore would have lost to Bush?
Remember there would have been no impeachment trial.

Clinton Should Have REsigned like Spitzer did and spared us a Republican President.

Fool Me Once -- Shame on You, Fool Me Twice -- Shame on Me.

I'm not getting fooled again!
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End Of The Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Gore DID win, remember. nt
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
28. I think the OP obviously implies that Gore's margin would then have been such ...
... that the election couldn't have been stolen from him.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. I remember thinking at the time that, even if President Clinton resigned...
...we'd gain President Gore - whom I liked better than President Clinton. However, I was also vehemently opposed to President Clinton resigning. In hindsight, despite the scenario you've described, I'm still glad he didn't give in. :thumbsup:
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Ah so Iraq, a Depression, maybe even 9-11, were all worth it?
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 10:29 AM by Dems Will Win
Just so the Republicans couldn't score a point against the Clintons you're ready to go through all that?

Hmmm. I, and the lawyer above, think quite differently.

With a President Gore, global warming would have already been addressed. Richard Clarke would have been allowed to defend the US against attack instead of being ignored. Iraq DEFINITELY would not have happened.

And the coming Depression would have never come about.

You better think again.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. It was more about Clinton being a Democratic President and overreaching...
...by Gingrinch's Republican House. It was a matter of principal for me and it still is. There's NO guarantee Gore's electoral outcome would've been any different if he were an incumbent President (hell, he won anyway and STILL was robbed of it by Bush's FL machine AND the US Supreme Court).
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
33. Of course we'd prefer Gore to Bush*. Who wouldn't?! But Bill Clinton didn't break the law, so had no
reason to resign. A better question would be whether we'd be better off if we'd put into office the candidate who won the popular vote back in 2000... :-(
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. technically speaking, he DID break the law. perjury is still a crime, and he got caught in a lie.
nt
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. Good point, but what Clinton did was a personal matter, didn't affect national security.
I think that the lies of Scooter Libby and Oliver North were very dangerous for this country, and how much time have they spent behind bars? :grr:
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
4. yeah it isn't like Ginrich stated he wan't to Impeach Gore as well
no wait, it is like that. It is exactly like that.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
6. No Parallel At All
I watched the Spitzer situation closely, and there was no finger wagging.

Case closed.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. You mean CLOSE BUT NO CIGAR?
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. LOL
:rofl:
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
9. Don't forget how strongly the Clintons fought for AL GORE's presidency:
I am convinced that the failure of the DLC to acknowledge Gore's win in 2000 (in fact they blame his "loss" on breaking with the DLC and becoming a populist-i'll post a link below) and their active role in keeping Kerry from challenging Ohio in 2004(thanks to Clinton ally James Carville (also posted below) was calculated as to allow a HRC run in '08. If either would have taken the office they won, then HRC and her corporate cronies would not have had a chance in 2008. Also look how they try to undermine Howard Dean. Anyway, here are some links:

FIRST..GORE BROKE WITH THE DLC TO BECOME A POPULIST:

Published on Sunday, August 20. 2000 in the Boston Globe
Thank You, Al Gore
by Robert Kuttner
A funny thing happened to Al Gore on the way to his surprisingly effective acceptance speech. He became a liberal.

The speech was as liberal as anything FDR or LBJ or Jesse Jackson or one of the Kennedys might have delivered. It was built around a commitment to fight for ordinary people, against large and powerful interests. This, of course, is precisely what made it effective.

The emotional heart of the speech, Gore's honoring of four ordinary American lives, did not just salute the struggles of workaday families, the way Ronald Reagan often did. It identified who was dishonoring their struggles - corporations. He singled out heartless HMOs who pressure a family to sacrifice a child; drug companies that force a pensioner to choose between food and medicine; corporate polluters; corporations that pay workers inadequate wages.

And he identified the solution: strong, reliable public Social Security; better Medicare; welfare reform that rewards work rather than punishing the needy; higher minimum wages; and more investment in public - not voucher - schools, so that working families don't have to send kids to crumbling classrooms.

What is the evil? Corporate power. What is the remedy? Effective government.

-snip
http://www.commondreams.org/views/082000-105.htm

SECOND, AFTER GORE'S WIN THEY BLAME HIS 'LOSS' ON BREAKING WITH THE DLC:

Strange Theory on Why Gore Lost



The so-called Democratic Leadership Council has decided that Al Gore should have acted more like a Republican in order to win the 2000 presidential electoral college vote in addition to his nationwide popular vote victory. This strange finding has drawn some attention, including coverage by the Associated Press and the Environmental News Service -- we have a few excerpts from their reports for you here.
Al Gore, the self-styled environmental candidate in the 2000 Presidential election, lost his bid for the White House because he campaigned on an outdated "populist" platform that was too liberal for most Americans, according to a new report drafted by the Democratic Leadership Council.

The 40-page report, titled "Why Gore Lost, And How Democrats Can Come Back," concludes that the Democratic Party must move towards the political right -- towards the Republicans -- if it wants to regain control of Congress in 2002 and the White House in 2004.

Al From, the DLC's founder and CEO, opened a freewheeling discussion forum by arguing that Democrat Al Gore made a huge tactical mistake by continually emphasizing that he would "fight for the people and not the powerful" as the nation's first president of the 21st Century.

-snip

http://www.progress.org/goredlc2.htm

AND FINALLY, CLINTON ALLY JAMES CARVILLE'S ROLE IN THE QUICK KERRY CONCESSION:

Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)


By M.J. Rosenberg | bio




On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election.

Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

-snip

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'

-snip

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did...

RESEARCH THIS FOR YOURSELVES, BEFORE YOU CAST A VOTE FOR ANY DLC CANDIDATE!
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Thanks for this
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
11. Clinton didn't break any laws, technically despite the word "is"
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. IIRC, he did.
But the trivial context did not warrant impeachment.
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
14. Intellectually interesting, but.....

Seems like this is heading full speed in Reverse. :shrug:
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
15. I have thought about that also n/t
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
16. That's a republican's revision of history if I've ever seen it.
First of all, Clinton had a 72% approval rating while being impeached. Why in the hell would he resign?

Second of all, Gore OBVIOUSLY WON the election.

We are under corporate control of the media and the voting machines that make it APPEAR that republicans have "won" something. They have NOT.

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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Gore would have won by several points and Florida would have never happened
But Bill did not resign when he should have. And so we have the nightmare of today.
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Listen to your reasoning!!! "Gore would have won by several points"????
What the fuck? You mean if the republicans hadn't stolen the election by more than a few extra points and sent it to the stacked supreme court we would have won??? You mean, if we hadn't been cheated out of a legitimate election then we WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN CHEATED OUT OF A LEGITIMATE ELECTION? And we would have won?

Quit spreading the meme that somehow having the election stolen was the voters fault.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
18. boning your intern isn't illegal, prostitution is.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. He had power over Lewinsky as her boss tho
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
19. And if Bill resigned
the Republicans would be empowered to impeach ANY and EVERY democratic President on bullshit grounds.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. THat's not the point and it's not true anyhow. The point is the right thing for the PARTY would
have been to step down. Then President Gore would have soundly beaten Bush and there would have been no Florida.

Bill Clinton has been a disaster for the Dem party as a result of not resigning and I will never forgive him.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. There's no way to know that Gore would've won
Perhaps if Clinton had resigned, more voters would've believed there actually WAS some merit to the charges.

How did Gerald Ford fare in '76?
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Babel_17 Donating Member (948 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
20. IIRC the Republican/Gingrich plan ....
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Well of course it was, so what? Gore would have beaten Bush soundly
if Lewinsky was years in the past.

But it was not!

President Gore would have pushed through Kyoto, let Clarke defend America so 9-11 would not have happened, so no Iraq, no Depression, and global warming would have started to be addressed, more solar, wind power, etc. etc.

How many millions died or became impoverished because Clinton did not resign? Think about that!

All so Gingrich didn't get to win one.

BRILLIANT
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Babel_17 Donating Member (948 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Clinton's scalp
would have been used as vindication for the republican agenda and a rallying cry for the troops. They would then have drastically ratcheted up their (already existing) attacks on Gore. Then again, maybe I'm being too harsh in regards the republican leadership of the time. :)
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Just try to imagine Spitzer staying in power and not letting Paterson take over!
That's what Clinton did!
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #22
34. kick
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
27. A Clinton just doesn't seem to know when to pull out ...
... of the Presidency or a lost campaign, for the greater good.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Uh- OK
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. kick
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
35. I hope you don't choke to death on your hate.
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book_worm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
37. I have to confess at the time a part of me hoped Bill would resign
and Gore would have been an incumbent president running in 2000--I think it would have given him the edge to a more decisive win that couldn't have been stolen.
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. It would have given Gore at least 5% to 7% extra I'm sure!
Then no Florida, no Iraq, no Depression, maybe no 9-11!
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
38. two words: buddhist temple.
with clinton gone, they would have set their sights on Gore.

we also could have ended up with a president hastert.
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