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Did Kennedy steal the 1960 election from Nixon?

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ringmastery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 07:30 PM
Original message
Did Kennedy steal the 1960 election from Nixon?
I always heard that Daly's machine stole the election for Kennedy in Chicago.

Any truth to this?
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yeah, it's probably true.
Lots of dead people voted for Kennedy.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. No - It's False
Just another lie perpetuated by right-wing assholes like Limbaugh and Hannity.
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fearnobush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Naa, both party's were voting the dead, Greg Palest includes this
in his book. The difference in vote amounted to perhaps a few hundred more in JFK's favor-not close enough to sway the results. That being said, Any one caught Freeping votes ought to do 10 years for it.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. I thought I heard that JFK may have cheated to win IL, but Nixon cheated
to win FL, so they evened up on the cheating front.
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BostonTeaParty04 Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. Interesting to think about what history would be w nixon in 1960....
think about it... 1964,... no lbj standing in... to sign the civil rights act.

Would mlk have come out so strongly? And therefore, he might not have been murdered, which means: what might he have done later?

And who would have been prez in 1968, et seq?

would bobby have been killed?

Twists of fate... perhaps involving corrupt elections, but incredibly impactful on all of our futures and lives....

hmmmmmmmmmmmm
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mndemocrat_29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. Very interesting
Some other ponderances-

Without Johnson to appoint him as Vice President, Hubert Humphrey would've stayed in the Senate, thus depriving Walter Mondale of a Senate seat.

Would Mondale have then run in 1970 when Eugene McCarthy retired?

Without Mondale to pick as VP (he probably wouldn't have gone with a one-term senator), who would Carter have gone for in 1976-Ted Kennedy? Fritz Hollings?

Without instant name recognition for the 1984 elections, would Gary Hart or John Glenn have the 84 nominees? Would Geraldine Ferraro still be in Congress? Would a women have been picked in a later election as a running mate?
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elperromagico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. Even if that's the case, Kennedy still would have won.
The electoral vote went like this:

Kennedy - 303
Nixon - 219
Other - 15

Illinois had 27 electoral votes at the time, so even if Nixon had won the state, the electoral vote would have been:

Kennedy - 276
Nixon - 246
Other - 15

So, while it's possible that Daley stole Illinois for Kennedy, it doesn't mean Kennedy stole the election.
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ringmastery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. there was also allegations
Texas was stolen too.

Illinois and Texas would have put Nixon over the top.
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elperromagico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. And how many states did Nixon steal?
I'm not going to start trusting Nixon for honesty.
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Josh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Illinois was close, Texas, by comparison, was not.
Edited on Mon Apr-19-04 07:48 PM by Josh
Illinois was decided by just over 10,000, which would have been a hell of a lot easier to rig than Texas, which although close, was decided by over 46,000 votes. Not as easy to rig. There is considerable evidence of fraud in Illinois, but less so in Texas. Kennedy did win the popular vote, too, albeit only by 118,000 votes.

Nixon won California by a smaller vote margin than Kennedy won Texas by.
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daa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yes its true nt
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DAGDA56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
10. Yes, and now he has to give it back...
nt
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
11. hmmmm.....
Strange question.
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terisel Donating Member (217 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
12. Nixon backed off after offer of a state-wide recount in Illinois

I read that Nixon's people had backed off accusations after Democrats discussed a state-wide recount. Presumably the more rural area may have turned up Republican mis-counts.

Nixon really had no case regarding the ecection as the elortoral vote was solidly Kennedy.

I think this surfaces among the right wing because they know Bush stole election 2000 and they want to tell themselves that it was all right.
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rogerashton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
13. The real story is --
that the popular vote was so close and the electoral vote so different.

Nobody will ever know who stole more votes in Illinois.

But just a small swing in the popular vote would have left Nixon with the popular plurality, but a big loss in the electoral college. Because Kennedy won the big states by small margins, and lost the small states by big margins. That should put paid to the story that the electoral college favors the small states that would be powerless otherwise!!
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
14. Illinois is fishy.
Typically, when a Dem wins Illinois they win a lot more downstate counties than Kennedy won. That leads me to think Cook County was rigged to some extent. However, you have to bear in mind that electoral fraud is somewhat frequent and that it occurs on both sides in varying degrees around the country.
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Didn't Nixon avoid a recount because Southern IL was as crooked as Dailey?
At least that's what I recall at the time.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. That's what I've always heard
Funny how everybody knows the Daly Machine story, but nobody knows the rest of it. I guess the Republicans have always been better at planting their seeds of doubt in the public pscyhe.
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. Yeah, what I heard was
that Nixon didn't demand a recount because he was pulling the same type of thing and knew he would be exposed, so there was no point in a recount.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Think Cook County was rigged?
Of course it was. And downstate was also rigged. C'mon, this is Illinois.

I heard (and I don't remember where) that vote fraud on both sides was a wash.

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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
16. it's likely true about IL
but it did not cost Nixon the election. Kennedy would've won without IL.
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Beaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. not really...
even though there may have been some shenanigans in chicago for the DEms, there was just as much downstate "tinkering" for the repuglikkkans.
besides, Kennedy won by more electoral votes than illinois had, so even without it, he still would have won the white houe.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
20. No. Why do you ask? n/t
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dryan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Daley held up total
I remember hearing that Mayor Daley held up the final total until it looked like Kennedy was going to need Illinois to put him over the top. The right-wing has been fanning the flames of this pseudo scandal for over 40 years!
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
25. Only half the story.
Edited on Tue Apr-20-04 10:50 AM by Padraig18
Nixon accused Daley of stealing the election in heavily-Democratic Chicago, and demanded a recount. When Daley countered with the offer of a statewide recount, including the heavily-Republican downstate counties, Nixon dropped his demand and conceded the election.

:P
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Gothmog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
26. Duvale County
I have always heard stories about Johnson and Duvale County. Back in those days, Duvale County was ruled by George Parr (the Duke of Duvale County) who was rumored to be responsible for Johnson's first Senate win.

However, as in Illinois, there was republican cheating in other parts of the state that may have balance the scale. Texas politics has always been dirty and the losers usually do not have clean hands in the affair.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-04 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
27. That's the popular rumor....
Sam Giancana's brother also asserted that MoMo was of assistance in West Virginia(voter intimidation etc).

Of course he also had MoMo whacking Marilyn to embarass JFK(after JFK wouldn;t call off Bobby) and eventually whacking JFK himself.

This is the book

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/044636412...

A fun read if not factual.
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