Just talked to my Dad

[woolldog]

Some background: he's a solid democrat and has voted straight democratic ticket for the last 30+ years. I don't think he's ever voted for a Republican in his life.

He was pissed, I mean yelling and screaming and foaming at the mouth over Sen Clinton's offer of the Vice Presidency to Obama. He called it incredibly patronizing and racist. He told me a while ago that he would vote for the nominee no matter what. He's changed his mind now and will never vote for Clinton.

Congratulations Hillary. Way to alienate your base.

[Kitty Herder]

1. EXACT same story with my mom. nt

[Pirate Smile]

18. Mine too. My life-long Democratic, 61 year-old, white, Midwestern Mom declared

"OK, it's official, I hate her now" after the Clinton comments on McCain and her "life experience" v. Obama's one speech.

[Darth_Kitten]

159. My mother would never hate another women for making a comment....

like Hillary did. Hmmmm. It's funny the things that some women would hate other women for but forgive much, much worse in men.

[WillyT]

23. Mine Three... 78, Life-Long Dem...

And WILL NOT vote for HRC.

:wow:

[Quixote1818]

52. Story of my Dad here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5014648&mesg_id=5015653

[krkaufman]

107. I've been defending Hillary against my *Democratic* ...

... and very liberal/progressive conservative/Republican-loathing mom for years. My mom has viewed Hillary suspiciously since early in the Clinton years, and I've poo-pooed her suggestions that Hillary could be as calculating, conniving or power-hungry as my mom suggested.

Suffice it to say that one of us began daily feedings of crow a few weeks back, when the Clinton campaign began going full-on Rove.

[uponit7771]

128. Haven't talked to my parents but I'm in the same camp or at least thinking about it

[ForeignSpectator]

138. also foaming at the mouth?

sorry, couldn't resist... on a serious note : I wonder what it will take until clinton alienated all Democrats but I am afraid the hard core that's still supporting her will NEVER see her for what she really is, no matter what she does...

[DemGa]

2. Well sure, now that she's a racist!

I mean supposition is all ya need for a Clinton!

:sarcasm:

[woolldog]

11. I don't know why this in particular set him off?

It didn't seem racist to me. :shrug:

[scheming daemons]

3. Hillary's already backtracking... and Lanny Davis claims it was all "a misunderstanding"....

...I think the Clinton people know that this was a HUGE miscalculation by them.

[Cha]

5. Too late...their shit is already

outta the bag.

[IDemo]

14. Classic Clintonian pattern

- "I will pursue pledged delegates."

- "Of course I won't pursue pledged delegates."

- "I will pursue pledged delegates."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/10/hillary-clinton-pledged-_n_90697.html

[Hieronymus]

49. I hope so, but I'm with that guy's dad ... I will stay home on election day...

rather than vote for Hillary.

[lse7581011]

95. Me Too! n/t

[Adelante]

105. Are you serious?

What a pisser she is.

[Cha]

4. He better not hear what

hilary's surrogate, geraldine, has to say about Obama, then!

[woolldog]

15. I honestly think he'd lose it

if I told him about that. No way would I mention that. :hide:

[krkaufman]

108. chuckle. very effective use of emoticon.

still laughing.

[LakeSamish706]

6. Now, your dad sounds like my kinda guy... I agree completely with him...

and I have also voted Democratic for the last 40 years.... I seriously wonder (In my minds eye) if Hillary is not a Democrat but a possible republican (still)

[MeDeMax]

7. thank you for articulating "patronizing & racist"

that is exactly how I felt, when I heard what Bill Clinton said about Hillary being open to the idea of Barack being the VP.

I just couldn't get myself to make a post on DU accusing Bill of racism, it is like accusing the pope of Blasphemy, IMHO.

But that was exactly what Bill did, I saw and heard it myself.

[thewiseguy]

8. Hillary manages to piss everyone off!

[meow mix]

9. same with my dad, he *was* a staunch clinton supporter untill now

she's a disaster

[LakeSamish706]

10. It's time for the Clinton's/Bush's to head for the exits... (and they better move quickly) n/t

[Skittles]

12. how the f*** is it RACIST? nt

[SunsetDreams]

21. Think of a bus

even political strategist, newsmakers, pundits, said it could be viewed that way

No matter if there is a hidden meaning, it is blatantly rude and rather arrogant, when your behind, to offer it to the frontrunner. If he was in 2nd place, different story.
I'm white and I can see it being taken that way.

[Skittles]

26. you're REALLY reaching n/t

[woolldog]

27. All I can say is that's exactly how he took it.

I took it as more patronizing than racist. but it still left a bad taste in my mouth.

Out of all the racist/bigoted things Clinton has done in this campaign, I'm not sure why this was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

[Skittles]

28. I took it as election strategy

silly me

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. How old are you? For people of a certain age the bus is a far more

adequate analogy.

I wasn't born here, but know US History and the 60s inside out.. and yes, it makes sense

On the plus side, the youn'ins, will not get it.

[Skittles]

44. 51 this year

and I am well aware of American history and no, it makes no sense whatsoever - it's REACHING

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. Ok, I get it why it is being said

it's ok.

In my OPINION it is not reaching... but that is MY OPINION

Then again, I have no horse in this race...

Yes I am an indie, getting prouder of that decision and horrified by what the partisans for BOTH candidates are doing

[Chulanowa]

69. I'm not sure about it being directly racist...

But it's definitely patronizing. And let's be honest - a white person acting in a patronizing manner towards a black person in America often carries a racist smell to it, whether it is or not. The impression is very present.

[CitizenLeft]

73. very true

I'm an African-American, and through all of this, through all of Bill and Hillary's inflammatory comments throughout this whole campaign, I STILL don't believe they're racists... not in their souls, not in their hearts. But I have a hard time distinguishing between a genuine racist, and a person who knows better than to use these tactics... and does it anyway.

[Skidmore]

94. Any person willing to use tactics that use racism as a touchstone

in this manner perpetuates racism. It turns my stomach that the Clintons are held out as the leaders of the Democratic party now.

[CitizenLeft]

161. and they will hammer hard on it in PA...

brace yourself.

[DevonRex]

98. Absolutely!

Once again someone on DU has said exactly what I was going to say. If a white person patronizes a black person, it's very close to racism on its face. Just like if a man is patronizing in that way to a woman, it's very close to sexism on its face. There is no way that it could be discounted as "reaching."

[uponit7771]

132. I don't people under 60 will get the racist inference her or take it that way not ...

...through the 60s

[earthside]

22. Because it sounds like:

"Move to the back of the bus so the nice white lady can have that seat."

That's why it brings racist recollections to mind.

Now, how hard is that to figure out?

[Skittles]

25. VERY hard for a LOGICAL, THINKING PERSON n/t

[Hawkowl]

61. Racism is EMOTIONAL not logical

Hillary is a professional politician and she knows (or should've known) how that comment would be taken. Ask any of your Black friends how they took this remark. I'm sure they could enlighten you.

[TheDoorbellRang]

133. I look at it this way

When there's a situation that comes up when someone shouts sexism or racism, I usually try to stick a white guy in the minority's place and run it by my brain to see how it looks.

So let's say that Senator Biden was where Obama is today vs. Clinton -- ahead in pledged delegates, popular vote, states, etc. Then imagine Clinton saying she'd certainly consider him for her vice president. In this scenario I agree -- it's not patronizing, it's living in fantasyland. :shrug:

[Yes We Did]

151. I thought Clinton supporters weren't "Logical" or "Thinking"

I mean, the "uneducated" that is her base right... the ones that are easy to fool? That may be why you don't get it.

[NMMatt]

40. Simple: If Obama where white this wouldn't even have been considered

By the patronizing Clinton scum.

[LostinVA]

103. I'm trying to figure that one out, too

So far today on DU, I've learned that offered Obama a VP slot is racist, but saying Clinton was playing "stinky finger" is not sexist (or crude).

[SwampG8r]

149. link?

im not doubting you
but i like to read about a stinky finger story as much as the next guy lol

[goldcanyonaz]

114. Many see racism where there isn't any because they have racist tendency's themselves.

Me thinks the gentlemen doth protest too much!

[yardwork]

147. Ok, will you acknowledge that it's highly patronizing?

Maybe it's not racist - but in politics, perception is everything.

Either Hillary was being deliberately provocative or she has a tin ear for the way that people hear her comments. (Actually, I've thought that she has a political tin ear for a long time.)

She's running against a black man who is leading in national polls and ahead of her in the number of delegates, and she offers him the VP slot?! That's really patronizing. Would she have tried it a white man? Maybe.

But for a lot of people, that gesture of Hillary's reminds them of historical treatment of black people as being undeserving of the top spot.

[Swamp Rat]

13. Same here, but I reminded him about SCOTUS.

[walldude]

16. Exactly, no matter who you support

we need to take the White House. Hell if we can get the House and Senate then we can get shit cleaned up fast. I know my family is waiting impatiently, hoping to get health care again, and I bet you guys in N.O. could still use a bit of help, hell it's only been 3 years. :eyes: I know I can trust either Hillary or Obama at least to do that for us. Once the screaming is done and the smoke clears and the trolls go home, I hope to hell we can get it together again, for the good of us all...

[Swamp Rat]

19. I sure wish John Edwards was already the nominee

He came to New Orleans and got his hands dirty helping to clean up and rebuild many times during his campaign... reminded me of Jimmy Carter.

Yeah, the trolls are in force tonight, but the Mods are zapping them quick! :D 'CyberPieHole' has already come back a couple of times. Scroll down for a laugh:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5012739

[City Lights]

92. Someone should have reminded Hillary about the SCOTUS before she

gave her blessing to McCain.

[krkaufman]

109. SCOTUS is the thin thread keeping many from bailing. n/t

[yardwork]

145. Great graphic! I love it.

[Zachstar]

17. Wow I am hearing many people say that lately. An indication of what is to come?

The VP issue may double backfire on Clinton.

Obama has fully debunked her on multiple issues with one swoop while denying he will go VP. People will likely no longer think about the idea that a vote for Clinton is a vote for Obama. It seems to be also convincing people to go out and vote for Obama.

Multiple Clinton supporters who despise Obama in Mississippi and in the remaining states will be horrified that they are talking about him as the VP spot and may decide to vote uncommitted or someone else other than Clinton.

So yet again Clinton's bad decisions have backfired against her.

[Pirate Smile]

20. I think the last week is backfiring on her - all the VP crap v. the "he is

not qualified, all he has is a speech" v. McCain and Clinton's "life time of experience".

[Cha]

24. But, what a speech! While she

and mccain sent Soldiers to die and be maimed for life and the Iraqis to be at the mercy of the imminent bombing of their country.

Barack Obama, Oct, 2002..
<snip>
"What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income - to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression. That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics. Now let me be clear - I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He's a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history. I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of Al Qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars.

So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the President today. You want a fight, President Bush? Let's finish the fight with Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings. You want a fight, President Bush?"

<continued>
http://www.barackobama.com/2002/10/02/remarks_of_illinois_state_sen.php

[Pirate Smile]

29. Damn! That is awesome.

:toast:

[Cha]

36. They are so jealous that Obama

can call 'em while all they can do is play Fear Cards from the bottom of their stacked deck.

:toast:

[Window]

88. Wow. Just. Wow!

[Cha]

155. Had you not read it before?

I'm just curious 'cause that's the first reason I jumped totally on the O Train.:)

[Window]

163. Yes, but I get chills every time I hear it.

[SwampG8r]

150. and this is why

im voting for him
because he refuses to think like they want

[Hieronymus]

58. Edwards never said he had ended his campaign .. wishful thinking.

[Catherina]

80. I don't think she's trying to win anymore

This has reached the point of self-immolation now and the only thing slowing her exit is trying to forcefully drag Obama down so the same sword hurts him too.

Part of me feels sorry for the Clintons. They've alienated so many groups of people that they can't find a common intersecting message anymore so they're tripping up on small things. It's like when your mask is exposed and no one believes the big lie anymore so they start examining every word out of your mouth. I'm in total agreement with you. Her own decisions are destroying her campaign and Obama comes out smelling like a rose. That's probably the part that angers her the most in a petulant "Marcia, Marcia, Marcia" kind of way.

[krkaufman]

111. I think Obama's highlighting the VP offer effectively snuffs ...

... Clinton's decrying Obama as not having enough experience. Whenever they hear her say it from now on, they'll remember her saying he'd be great as VP.

[Beacool]

30. Oh yeah, how dare anybody question or say anything about Obama!!!

It's racist, I tell you racist!!!!

You want to know what is racist? When 80% to 90% of people vote for one candidate in particular based more on his darker complexion than on the issues. Does Hillary get the same percentage of women's vote? Will McCain get the same percentage of whites to vote for him in the GE? Wouldn't people be appalled if they did?

Racism works both ways, and so far it's being used against Hillary much more than against Obama. The MS primary tomorrow will prove it once again.

[woolldog]

33. I actually don't see that as racist or bigoted

I think 95% of Mormons voted for Mitt Romney. Do you consider them bigots? 80% of Catholics voted for JFK. Were they bigots?

AAs have shown an overwhelming willingness to vote for white candidates, and to vote for white candidates over black candidates (Sharpton, Jackson to name a couple of candidates who didn't get overwhelming black support). Whites have shown they're willing to vote for black candidates too, though not in the same numbers and some obviously have some reservations, I think a lot of progress has been made.

I see a moral difference between voting for someone because they are the first in your group to be making a serious run for the Presidency, like Mormons did for Romeny, or white women are doing for Hillary, or blacks are doing for Obama and catholics for JFK, on the one hand........and on the other hand voting againstsomeone because of their race or religion or gender.

[Beacool]

51. Elections should be about the issues,

not about overwhelmingly voting for a guy because he's black, same goes for voting for a woman due to her gender. The difference is that Hillary is not getting 80-90 percent of the female vote and I sure hope that McCain doesn't get the same percentage of the white vote in the GE.

[Spider Jerusalem]

66. Obama and Clinton are not significantly different on the issues, though.

Most rational observers admit this.

Therefore, the choice of one candidate over another comes down to intangibles. Personality is one. Perceived electability is another. I don't see how there's a problem with eighty to ninety percent of African-American voters choosing to vote for a viable African-American candidate whose positions on most of the significant issues are similar to those of his primary opponent. Jesse Jackson didn't get 90% of the African-American vote against Mondale in '84. And Obama probably wouldn't be getting 90% of the African-American vote NOW, had the Clinton campaign in the person of Bill not engaged in tactics that were perceived as race-baiting in the run-up to the South Carolina primary (and you can argue all you want that it WASN'T race-baiting; whether it was or NOT is totally irrelevant...all that matters here is that it was PERCEIVED that way).

[Tarheel_Dem]

79. very well articulated Spider J....(eom)

[krkaufman]

116. And someone please show me the exit poll data ...

... detailing exactly *why* African-Americans are voting for Obama. The poster is only offering the vote split as proof.

[woolldog]

74. I think that's a little naive for two reasons

I'd argue that women aren't voting in such large numbers for one particular candidate b/c women's interests are fractured along so many more different lines than tight-knit ethnic groups like blacks, mormons, or croations (to add another example who voted overhwelmingly for Kucinic). Women are half the population. Usually, the smaller the group, as a subset of a population, the more likely it is to move in lockstep. Sill women are showing a distinct preference for HRC. And it becomes an overwhelming preference when you look at older, white females--the group who most resembles Hillary Clinton. They see themselves in her and, as it's their first chance to have someone who looks like them in the WH, they vote for her. I don't begrudge them that.

(For white men, I think it's less of an issue voting for a white male because so many presidents, congressman etc are and have been white males.)

Secondly, the election certainly is about the issues. Clinton would be carrying the black vote overwhelmingly if she were running against Alan Keynes for example. The difficulty for Clinton with respect to the black vote (aside from the things she's done to alienate black voters) is that there really isn't much difference in the issues between her and Obama.

[Arkansas Granny]

104. As one of those older, white females that supports Hillary I can tell

you that it's not because she reminds me of myself. I feel that she will be the most electable candidate to run against John McCain in the GE. If Obama is the nominee, I will gladly vote for him and hope we see a Democratic victory. However, there are a few things about his campaign that make me uneasy.

I see in Obama's supporters the same "worship" I saw in the Beatles fans when I was in high school. He has risen so quickly in public opinion that I am afraid that his fall may come just as quickly. A lot of his support has come from young people and it's great to see them getting involved in the political process that will have so much influence over their lives. However, I realize that as a demographic, they are the least likely to show up at the polls in November. I know that they are very enthusiastic now, but the GE is a long 6 months away and much of that excitement may have worn off by then. It worries me that they may be very instrumental in choosing our nominee, but won't be there when we really need them to elect our President.

There is also the fact that Obama has not been tested by the RW slime machine. We all know that as soon as the nominee is declared it will be open season and what is not found to slander the candidate with will be made up and blasted 24/7 by the RW gas bags. Hillary has withstood this assault in the past and will probably do so again, but I'm not sure what effect this will have on Obama.

This is not an Obama-bashing thread, just my concerns about the future. The importance of this election cannot be stressed enough. If McCain were to be elected, he would complete the job of destroying our country that Bush has begun. We need a Democratic President to turn things around. That's why I have such a problem with anyone who states that they will simply not vote if their candidate does not win the nomination. We can't afford to lose a single Democratic vote. A close election is not going to be good enough, we need a landslide that can't possibly be questioned or overturned. Those who are not willing to help us achieve this because of their "take my ball and go home" attitude should really take a long hard look at what might happen because of their lost vote.

[Laelth]

142. I respect your desire to vote for the candidate who can win.

That's how I am making my decision too, and I fully respect that. We're both Democrats, and we want the Party to win in November.

The reason I am responding now, though, is the Beatles analogy you gave. I think it's a great analogy, but it doesn't support your belief that HRC has a better chance of winning.

When, for example, did the Beatles fans turn against them? When did they fall from grace? If they did fall from grace, how long did it take? Ten years? Aren't the Beatles now regarded as one of the greatest bands of all time? Aren't the Beatles still famous and well regarded?

If Obama's fans are Beatles fans, and Obama is the Beatles, why would you ever vote against them? Don't you want Obama's name spoken with love and affection a full thirty-some years after he's out of office (that's how long it has been since the Beatles made music as a group).

No Beatles fan ever fell out of love with them in six months ... not that I've ever heard of, any way.

:toast:

-Laelth

[Arkansas Granny]

143. I used the Beatles analogy to demonstrate the meteoric rise in

Obama's popularity among the young because he is something new and different, like they were at the time. Hillary, on the other hand, has a more stable core of support which is among groups who are more likely to participate in the GE based on past voting demographics.

FWIW, I was never in love with the Beatles. I didn't care much for them back in 1963 because I felt like they were being forced upon me and frankly, I thought most of their early music sucked. I've always preferred the Stones.

:hi:

[ellacott]

106. In this case it's not strictily about color

People of all colors like his message. People of all colors have issues with the Clintons.

They both have basically the same positions so it comes down to who they would like to be the President.

[krkaufman]

113. Can't argue that Hillary's not getting the same percentage of the female vote ...

... but that might be because many women don't sense a gender affinity.

[democrattotheend]

134. You don't get to decide what elections "should be" about

The voters decide that. I can't stand when people get so elitist and start saying other people are stupid or lazy if they don't spend hours picking through the miniscule differences of a health care plan.

I am a white woman and I support Obama, but since I don't see a huge difference between these two candidates on most of the issues, I made my decision primarily based on character and the approach the candidates have taken in their campaigns. I like that Obama has prioritized grassroots activism, and I like the fact that he has for the most part taken the high road even in the face of relentless attacks.

I will admit that race has played a small factor in my decision as well, though it was primarily a factor in cementing my decision once I had already made it. Going canvassing in African American neighborhoods and working with African American volunteers, I can see how much of an inspiration his candidacy has been to some African Americans, and that helps keep me motivated to keep going.

So am I basing my choice on inappropriate factors? Maybe you think so, but isn't that for me to decide as a voter?

[Spider Jerusalem]

39. So, would you agree that the number of females voting for Hillary on the basis of gender...

is a sign of SEXISM?

Yes or no.

(By your own argument, the indisuptable answer is: yes.)

[Tarheel_Dem]

46. you guys have some nerve, you chide blacks for supporting

Obama, but you boast about Clinton's lopsided support among Hispanics. Hypocrite much? Surely you know the Repubs have asked the same question for decades because we always support the Dem (the white guy) in pretty much the same numbers you cited for Obama.

Just come out and say it..us ignorant blacks couldn't possibly be supporting Obama because we think he's the better candidate? No matter what Stephanie Tubbs-Jones, and Bob Johnson say to the contrary, most of us do know that Obama is (to borrow a phrase) "Ready On Day One".

[Beacool]

53. 80-90 percent of Hispanics did not vote for Hillary.

Ditto for women.

[Tarheel_Dem]

63. i'm sorry, that couldn't possibly be hillary's fault, could it?

it's not obama's fault if people aren't buying what she's selling. you still neglected to address the fact that we vote in those same numbers for the DEM nominee every election cycle, so by your logic, we should be splitting our support 50/50 with Repubs?

[krkaufman]

119. Interesting. I'm reminded of some science fiction B-movies ...

Rather than AAs voting based strictly on race* (as nonsensically suggested by the poster), maybe there's something in the African-American life experience that enables them to see Hillary's campaign and its tactics from a different perspective. (sorta like the special glasses that allow the sci-fi hero to recognize those humans whose bodies have been taken over by the lizard aliens)


* p.s. It's inconvenient to HC supporters to point-out that Hillary led Obama by wide margins in 2007 opinion polling among African-Americans. Obama began getting their votes, and the opinion polls began to shift, only after they began to get to know *him*. They already knew the color of his skin.

[DangerousRhythm]

96. Yes!

Thank you for making that great point about Clinton's hispanic support... seriously, such hypocrisy!

[sniffa]

135. Hear, hear!

:applause:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

89. So let me get this straight...

The vast majority of African-Americans voting for Bill Clinton in the '90s = good.

The vast majority of African-Americans voting for Barack Obama in the '00s = bad.

Is that an adequate asessment of your view?

[DevonRex]

100. Issues?

The only "issue" she has is a health care program that will never get passed as she proposed. Neither candidate's health care program will get passed as proposed, since Congress will have to compromise, vote, compromise again, vote again, etc.
Hillary couldn't even get her health care proposal past the democrats in teh 1990s because she managed to alienate even them from the process, used threats instead of diplomacy, and tried to keep everything secret as she cozied up to health care lobbiests.
So on the issues, I'm voting for a man who had the courage to speak out against the war when it was unpopular to do so. I'm voting for a man who wants universal health care coverage and has the diplomatic skills to bring republicans on board. I'm for a man who refuses to demonize the other party. I'm for a man who refuses to sink to the level of his political opponents.

[krkaufman]

112. You will not find exit polls to support your claims.

Because *you* think that's the motivation for the voting pattern does not make it so.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

139. 100% of blacks vote for white candidates every four years.

[woolldog]

152. that's the bottom line isn't it?

[CTLawGuy]

31. why would anyone dislike Hillary?

-the abrasive personality?
-the nauseating sense of entitlement?
-the complete state of separation from reality about this race?
-the crass opportunism?
-the shameless whining (especially "why do I always get the first question?!")?
-the seemingly endless pack of no-self-respect-having lackeys, toadies and yes-men(-women)?
-the pervasive arrogance surrounding her campaign?
-the utter selfishness?
-the ease with which she insults large swaths of the electorate?
-the fact of her husband's complete trashing of his legacy complete with descent into race-baiting politics?
-the republican-esqe fear-mongering advertisements and e-mails?
-the utter dishonesty about her opponent's record?
-the fraudulent portrayal of her own experience?
-the near-endorsement of John McCain over Obama?
-the nonsense about "the commander-in-chief threshold"?
-the hypocritical whining about caucuses and FL and MI and how "unfair" those situations are, (only now that she has a personal stake in the matter), which was curiously absent back in December?
-the covert appeals to anti-muslim fear and bigotry?
-the nonsense about "automatic" delegates, and now "caucus" delegates (as distinct from "elected" delegates)?
-the threats to cajole Obama's PLEDGED delegates into voting for her?
-threats of lawsuits over (1) Nevada, (2) Florida and Michigan, (3) Texas?
-the mocking of the idea of hope, four years after your own husband touts hope as a good thing?

NO....

can't imagine why anyone would dislike Hillary....

[CitizenLeft]

76. yep.

That about sums it up!

[lapfog_1]

85. It's the Hypocrisy, stupid! - n/t

[JVS]

32. I'll have to check in on mom. I remember that at Xmas she liked Hillary, but she also...

watched Olberman religiously, to the point where I left the room because I don't really enjoy his show that much.

[annie1]

34. she would have done it to edwards imo.

[eridani]

35. I'm sure he'll change his mind about voting

However, having the base sit on their hands instead of phonebanking and doorbelling would be very bad.

[NMMatt]

38. Screw that

It's what they are counting on in order to steal this election. Good for him for standing on principle instead of being manipulated by the Clinton's into supporting the losing candidate.

[MagsDem]

37. Your dad is not very smart then

Because he buys into the bullshit media spin. Show me the quote where she "offered" him the VP slot? Your dad is just dumb if he believes the media spin.

And my dad will cancel out your dad. He thinks Obama is a total phony, as does my kid, my ex-husband (a former rethug), and ever single gay person I know.

[Egnever]

41. LOL my dad beats your dad!

your funniest post to date :)

Thanks !

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[POAS]

86. Exactly why I don't care

about what you have to say!

Yahoo?

Get a psych 101 book and look up projection!

[DevonRex]

102. Mags, a closet Obamaniac?

I'm thinking that you're using reverse psychology here, since there's no way you can make folks like Hillary with that type of language, calling people morons, saying their dads are stupid, saying your dad is smarter than his dad.
So, it's obvious you're really an Obama supporter just trying to show the true colors of Hillary supporters. (With my apologies to the real Hillary supporters. I think most are pretty nice.)

[GarbagemanLB]

42. Those gays just LOVE the Clintons for DOMA and Don't Ask Don't Tell, don't they?

[MagsDem]

50. As if Obama has done anything for gay people - he hasn't

He supports the repeal of DOMA. So he's been in the senate for 3 yrs. If he supports it why hasn't he introduced a bill to repeal it? Because he's full of shit -- that's why.

The GLBT community knows Hillary has put her money where her mouth is, so to speak. And she not afraid to stand next to Gavin Newsome for a picture either. And she doesn't pander to anti-gay bigots like Obama does. If you're gay it's not a hard choice between them.

[cliffordu]

67. Why....

Are you a so hateful and disgrace the GLBT community with your vituperation? Your irrational hysterics are really an indicator of deep personal problems, I'm afraid. Maybe ranting on the internet is not the best use of your time. Maybe, if you feel so strongly about this, you could write letters or lobby Obama to change his views, or something equally constructive.

I'm just sayin'



:nopity:

[greguganus]

93. She does appear to have deep problems. Maybe that's why her husband is ex. n/t

[Tarheel_Dem]

75. doesn't Obama have the endorsement of some very high profile

GLBT's, and publications? Just asking....

[Tarheel_Dem]

57. yeah, it's always the media's fault....

you guys screamed, pouted, stomped your feet and threatened the media with boycotts, even tried to get some on-air personalities taken off the air, but you're running out of sand to bury your heads in, and that's the sad truth.

In this day & age, you don't have to accept media spin, you can just google for an actual transcript and/or video. No one has to distort Hillary, she's doing quite well on her own.

[woolldog]

83. Um,

since your father lives in a different state from mine, he can't cancel out his vote.

I do have an uncle who lives in WA state though and I've asked him and my cousins to cancel out your vote. :P

[krkaufman]

123. *Again* with the perfect emoticon deployment.

I started howling and checked the name, and had laughed a bit more.

[cali]

84. heh. my mother is disgusted with Hillary

She's 87. She's been a delegate to 4 conventions. She's certainly not stupid. In fact, she's anything but. She's been a dem activist for 60+ years. Yeah, she'll vote for hilly if by some outside chance she's the nominee, but she'll do it reluctantly. She's better than YOU with your crap about voting for McCain if your precious hilly doesn't get the nom. Oh, and my family undoubtedly cancels out yours, if we're playing that stupid game. I come from a fairly large family, and 18 of us are voting for Obama. Oh, and you're certifiably insane if you think that there aren't lots of GLBT folks voting for Obama.

[krkaufman]

121. You're absolutely right!! Hillary didn't offer Obama the VP spot, that's not her style.

She'll allude to his being a great choice for VP, and suggest a Clinton/Obama ticket would be unbeatable.

And then, once the promises have had their effect and the voting is done, she'll do whatever the hell she wants, regardless of what she said during the campaign.

[roguevalley]

153. what a set of repulsive remarks, magsdem. insulting someone and

their old dad because they don't agree with you. what a pathetic, sorry thing to do.

[annie1]

45. why is it ok for other pundits and politicians to say it but not her? just like when obama said...

at an early debate he'd like her to advise him when he's president, is that sexist?

[krkaufman]

124. Putting aside the alleged sexist, racist and patronizing arguments ..

... Obama's off-hand comment during the debate is not the same as the recent push by the Clinton campaign suggesting the "dream ticket."

[Quixote1818]

48. My Dad voted for Hillary in New Mexico but he is now pissed off at her

He read the article by Gary Hart and has seen a number of things that has him furious. He now wishes he had his vote back. He thinks Hillary is too power hungry and he even worries that Obama wouldn't be safe as President if Hillary was VP.

[MagsDem]

54. Get him a tinfoil hat for his birthday

He's obviously gone around the bend.

[Quixote1818]

59. My Dad was fighting Joseph McCarthy and putting his job on the line years before you were born

You could probably learn a thing or two from him.

[MagsDem]

65. Not if he is so nuts he thinks Clinton is going to assassinate Obama

He's bat shit fucking crazy in that case. Sounds like the nut balls that listen to Rush and think the Clinton's sold cocaine in Little Rock and murdered Vince Foster.

[Quixote1818]

72. He didn't say he he expects it, he said her actions of late make it cross his mind. nt

[salbi]

99. I think it has crossed a lot of peoples minds.

If something ever happened to Obama while Clinton was VP, even if she had nothing to do with it, there would conspiracy theories that would last forever. There would always be people convinced she was behind it.

[krkaufman]

126. What's this about the Clinton's selling cocaine in Little Rock?

Was it before, during or after Bill's terms as governor? Do you think that's why they're not releasing their tax records, because they won't be able to account for a lot of their wealth?

Link?

[Metric System]

62. "He thinks Hillary is too power hungry and he worries that Obama wouldn't be safe as President if

Hillary was VP."

That's something I wouldn't be shocked reading on Free Republic. Unfortunately, I'm not as shocked as I thought I'd be seeing it posted here.

[Quixote1818]

68. Well, he is the last person you will ever find over at FR

As I just posted, he put his job on the line fighting Joseph McCarthy. He caught all kinds of flack from his co-workers for that. He has been around the block and knows what greed and a thirst for power will do to people. I don't suspect he expects she would do something like that, but her actions of late have him concerned enough that it becomes a possibility.

[woolldog]

82. Thanks for sharing your story. (nt)

[WDIM]

130. He is right to worry!

Many of the Clintons political enemies turn up dead!

[Lord Helmet]

55. my 75 year old neighbor said she has a "mean streak"

[Ileanasouza]

60. Your dad is exaggerating

IMO.

[otohara]

120. Mind Reader

I hear more and more saying the same thing.

Are all these people exaggerating too?

[aquarius dawning]

64. Tell your dad to take a xanax

[DeadElephant_ORG]

78. Hell. Tell the whole damn country to take xanax. 'Cause you're gonna piss us ALL off!

[woolldog]

81. That's the thing.

he's the least aggressive, most laid back guy you will ever meet. I mean usually nothing gets him upset.

[GarbagemanLB]

70. I won't say that my parents originally supported Obama. They were with Edwards. Since then, however,

their view of the Clintons has changed dramatically. They initially held both of them in pretty high regard. They are both disgusted with Hillary's tactics and rhetoric (my mom was especially furious at the McCain experience remarks). It is sad, really. Bill had a pretty good legacy as president, and to see them squander it with this pathetic campaign is hard to watch.

[Tarheel_Dem]

77. sounds like that little bit of theatrics backfired big time, and probably

the reason Obama has regained his lead nationally. She slit her own throat, while trying to slit Obama's.

[krkaufman]

127. Your parents path seems to parallel that of many others. Me, for one. n/t

[grantcart]

71. You can piss of some of the people all of the time or you can piss of all of the people

some of the time, and Hillary is now working to piss of all of the democrats all of the time.

[GalleryGod]

87. The Big Girl still using The Big Plan: Read it here!

S.O.P.'s will ring very familiar as will tactics, smearing,and destructive politics!
The BIG GIRL is entitled! American Royalty!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

90. I didn't see it as racist.

I saw it as one more instance of the Clinton camp reacting about two to three weeks later than they should have. NOW... had they come out and offered Obama the VP slot before super tuesday, or even shortly thereafter, that would have made a hell of a lot more sense than offering it now.

[redqueen]

125. Good point... whatever else you want to call it - it's unbelievably stupid.

Her campaign is a laughingstock. And we want to put them up against the GOP?

[Vinca]

91. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that the past few days.

She's bringing down the party.

[rug]

97. My dog started humping her yard sign when he heard that.

[BigDDem]

101. So he was "yelling and screaming and foaming at the mouth?"

In my opinion that's not very rational, perhaps your dad
is easily upset?

[busymom]

110. My australian shepherd and I

were having the same discussion:

"woof, woobama" she was saying.

She totaly agrees with your dad.

[invictus]

115. If there is one thing that the Clintons do well, it's making enemies! n/t

[BenDavid]

117. Why is it this campaign has turned about race? Could it be this

is exactly what the obama campaign had to do to win? I say, DAMN SKIPPY HE DID! Kind of like those photos of obama being made to appear darker. Upon closer look the pictures provided by KOS and Rush were altered themselves and not the same damn picture.In the Rush photos it is two different pictures and in the KOS pictures,if you look close, not even the same picture.In one picture, his mouth is closed - in the other it's open. If someone on Hillary's staff darkened the picture, why did they add more teeth? If she's a racist, why do they have to fake the evidence?

obama started this crap to have dem against dem, we had this election won, until obama wanted to "unite us". I say he has done one hell of a job, right? HELL NO! It is all about race.....

[writes3000]

122. You RELENTLESSLY bring up race and religion. You're talking about yourself, buddy. n/t

[scheming daemons]

136. "we had this race won"....in other words..."WAAAH! It was Hillary's TURN and it's NOT FAIR that...

...the voters are taking that away from her!"


---BenDavid.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

118. Your dad is a VERY wise man.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

129. I agree with your dad.

I'm reminded of Jesse Owens, for some reason.

[Catherine Vincent]

131. I don't know why he would get upset about that.

And btw, she didn't offer Obama the vp slot. It was a suggestion and she agreed with it.

[susankh4]

137. Does he believe everything the MSM

tells him?

[Catherina]

140. My parents said the same thing

I haven't seen my mom so mad at a politician in a long time. She took the Hillary for President sign down. Guess what I'm sending her this week :evilgrin:

[cooolandrew]

141. It was very odd, but Barack gave a great response, link...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSMQqxPYYNY

[psychopomp]

144. Many of us have a story wherein Sen. Clinton just went too far

for us to take.

She crossed the line some months ago for me, when she started going negative in order to stem the tide of voters going for Sen. Obama's campaign.

[MyNameGoesHere]

146. They have shots for the foaming at the mouth thing. n/t

[Jokinomx]

148. I had felt that I could be happy with either.... but not anymore....

Obama has to win. He just has to!

[Unbowed]

154. She's proven herself to be such a hateful person.

She's turning a lot of people off.

[Bucky]

156. Offering someone the Vice Presidency is not "racist"

It's patronizing, but it's something Clinton would do to any opponent she couldn't beat straight out.

[file83]

160. I agree - I think a lot of people are projecting their own racism onto Hillary's statement.

Other candidates in the past have "considered" offering the Vice Presidency to their opponent, and they were both white. You know, just as a gimmick, part of the game.

I think it's sad in this day and age a political strategy is being spun as "racist". It reveals that people are judging Hillary by the color of her skin, not by the content of her character (which by the way is most definitely NOT racist).

That being said, I'm voting for Obama anyways.

[woolldog]

162. Really?

I've never seen someone who was running second and had no chance of overtaking the person running first offer that person the #2 spot.

Can you provide some specific example of that? Thanks.

[Johnny__Motown]

157. I like your dad... good for him

[Roland99]

158. Her vast ego (and Bill's) and her sense of entitlement are revealing her bitter true colors.

[ORDem]

164. Your dad's a smart guy. It's amazing how many people I've talked to who

couldn't see through her obvious ploy. Does anyone really want a President who is so childlike (except the 19 percenters?)?

:kick:

[BigDDem]

165. Do you have photos of your Dad

"foaming at the mouth?" I would like to see that.