Are we supposed to say that John McCain lacks experience?

[Apollo11]

23 years in the the US Navy + 25 years in the US Congress = a lifetime of experience.

Saying that John McCain has a lifetime of experience is a statement of fact.

It does not make someone a Republican sympathizer.

[tekisui]

1. Putting a Pukes "Washington experience" as more experienced to

be President than a fellow Democrat's experience does make one a Puke sympathizer, and a non-loyal Democrat.

It's not that she stated a fact about McShame, it was that she framed herself with McShame as more qualified to lead than Obama, a fine worthy and experienced candidate.

[jefferson_dem]

9. Word.

What Hillary said is inexcusable...no matter how folks try to spin it.

[Auntie Bush]

51. McCain has lots more experience than Obama no matter

how much you want a different conclusion. And yes, Hillary has more of the type that is needed than Obama. But Obama people don't like to admit the truth. They'd rather lie just like their leader lies...only to explain the truth later. He's not setting a very good example for his sheep to follow.

[tekisui]

59. Don't you know it's not about experience this time round.

That is a negative. Everybody's looking for change and something fresh. Someone who is not longtime Washington insider.

[Lucinda]

62. Anyone who thinks Obama isn't a Washington insider hasn't been paying attention.

[tekisui]

77. It's all about how they frame themselves.

I'm just saying why Obama's winning.

[beezlebum]

2. but it does kinda

make "experience" seem virtually irrelevant.

[EFerrari]

7. No kidding unless you count 21 years of corrupt warmongering

as a good thing.

[Recursion]

3. Problem: Clinton thinks her "experience" is comparable to his

She has been in the Senate for 7 years. She really seems to think that stacks up.

That troubles me.

[Ordr]

6. "That troubles me."

Not just you :).

[bowens43]

4. It's the comparison and the implication

that makes her a republican sympathizer .

[flpoljunkie]

5. Let's go to the tape and judge for yourself...

http://www.americablog.com/2008/03/hillary-today-john-mccain-has-more.html|youtube video>

http://www.americablog.com/2008/03/hillary-today-john-mccain-has-more.html

And from Keith Olbermann last night...

Rachel Maddow:

"This is what you say if you want to be McCain's choice for Vice President. It is not what you say if you are running for the Democratic nomination."

Keith Olbermann:

"Unbelievable."

[Apollo11]

10. Rachel Maddow is "in the tank" for Obama

MSNBC = ONN = Obama News Network

[flpoljunkie]

15. Rachel Maddow has bent over backwards to be fair to Hillary, which is why this criticism resonates.

[Apollo11]

23. Did you just put that picture in my mind?

:eyes:

[babylonsister]

16. CNN isn't and they had the same take:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x100727

[sellitman]

19. What she said was inexcusable

If you don't think it will be on a McCain ad against Obama were he to win the Dem. nod then you are drinking way to early in the morning.

[Apollo11]

32. Well excuse me!

You think John McCain will want to use clips of Hillary Clinton in his TV ads?? :eyes:

[Hepburn]

35. What makes you think he won't???

Hello????

GMAFB....you cannot be so stupid to think that McCain in a race against Obama will not push that Hillary thinks McCain to be experienced, but does not think the same of Obama?

:eyes:

[Recursion]

36. Yes

Don't you get that?

[bunnies]

8. Context is everything. nt

[Apollo11]

14. The context of this race is we already know that John McCain will be the GOP nominee.

Hillary is saying that she is the better choice because she has more relevant experience than Obama.

Obama agrees! He is always saying that we don't want someone with too much Washington experience!

[bunnies]

50. and the context of the statement is that Hillary prefers McCain to Obama. nt

[tyne]

21. All one has to do

is point out judgement.

McCains vast "experience" did not help with his judgement regarding Iraq. Not only did he support a war based on lies, his "judgement" about post invasion were basically the same as Cheneys.

COMPLETELY WRONG.

[0007]

39. The density of the context is important also.

[WVRevy]

11. It does when comparing him favorably to another Dem

If she'd stated it better, you'd have a point. If she'd said something along the lines of "In the general election, John McCain is going to talk about his lifetime of experience and what that means, and I feel that I am better suited to argue against that than my primary opponent", you'd have a point. But that ISN'T what she said.

And this whole talking point of "Oh, she just didn't phrase it the way she meant it" is complete bullshit. Hillary Clinton is a seasoned politician and has been in the brightest of spotlights in Washington for the better part of the last 20 years. You can't tell me that she gave a prepared statement that was that complimentary of McCain and that negative towards Obama on ACCIDENT. I'm sorry, but I don't believe that for one second.

[Nitrogenica]

12. He has a lot of experience enabling the Republicans sick agenda.

[mohc]

13. The problem is his experience is poor experience

Its quality vs. quantity. Just because someone has been doing something for a long time does not mean they are good at it. This is the gist of the Obama counter attack against Clinton's experience argument. If one's experience is dominated by mistakes, like McCain's is, then stating that they have the experience to be President is tantamount to an endorsement of their record. Obama phrases it very well, he salutes McCain's service but says he is wrong on all the issues and is committed to continuing the Bush legacy. Clinton on the other hand leaves it at McCain having experience to bring to the White House.

[truebrit71]

18. BINGO!!!! Thanks for pointing out what should be apparent to ALL of us here on DU...

...his EXPERIENCE with the Keating Five needs to be highlighted for a start...

[SheilaT]

17. I've long thought that

"experience" is always a misleading argument when considering if someone is suitable for an elected office.

Plus, while I respect McCain's survival of those brutal years as a POW, that sort of experience would have absolutely nothing to do with anything else, least of all being President of the United States. If anything, it could seriously skew his objectivity in many areas.

Obama had how many years in the Illinois legislature, so he certainly understands how laws are made. Clinton was an attorney, then the spouse of a President, although without any actual responsibility or duties in the government. She's been a senator for seven plus years now, so she also understands how laws are made.

It is possible that being a governor, especially of a large state, is pretty good training for becoming President, and some of our better presidents have been governors.

My entire point is that there is no real training ground for becoming President, and so I personally think that "experience" is almost always used as a way to slam whoever you want to slam, and is rarely, if ever, an argument of substance. But looking at how the various candidates have behaved in various circumstances, how they have voted on various issues, who they surround themselves with as advisers, all those things to me matter more.

[truebrit71]

25. If he had any experience shouldn't he NOT have been shot down in 'Nam?

...guy can't even fly a plane properly... ;-)

This whole experience meme is a well-worn tool used buy Beltway insiders to keep out fresh ideas and fresh faces..

And with the "experience" this country has had for the last 7 years, we need to "experience" a change in whom is controlling the WH for a start...

[Apollo11]

30. Maybe Obama can use that line of attack when he debates McCain?

:eyes:

[elana i am]

20. FACT: she told the voting public

that she thinks mccain (the repugnican mind you!) is more experienced to be president than her fellow dem.

FACT: that is an endorsement, a vote of confidence, a measure of support, whatever you want to call it, for mccain as opposed to her fellow democrat.

[truebrit71]

26. ...and quite possibly the most despicable thing she has said so far...

...my disdain for this woman grows by the day...

[Apollo11]

27. Hillary is saying that she is better qualified to go up against John McCain

because she has more experience than Obama.

She is NOT saying that John McCain would be a better President than Barack Obama.

[Recursion]

34. Except neither she nor Obama remotely win that contest

She's been a Senator for 7 years; he for 3.

Neither of them remotely stack up to McCain on "experience".

The problem is she actually thinks she could take on McCain in an campaign about experience.

She can't and she doesn't see that. She will lose to him if she's nominated.

[redqueen]

73. Don't expect the partisans here to acknowledge that painful truth. (nt)

[redqueen]

74. Don't expect the partisans here to acknowledge that painful truth. (nt)

[Yossariant]

22. LOL! McCain was a POW longer than Obama's national experience.

But, don't say it or the zombie-eyed masses will go all crazy on ya.

:crazy:

[truebrit71]

28. ...and Hillary arranging tea-parties while her HUSBAND made decisions counts as "experience" now?

You must be out of your tree....

[LeftCoast]

24. Team Obama Rules say you can't criticize him. It's unfair and possibly racist.

It is fun to watch the team hyperventilate and shriek loudly though.

[angie_love]

29. oh shutup, your grossness.

[LeftCoast]

33. You need to work on your pitch a little

I'm sure you can get it a little higher.

BTW, a paper bag works well when hyperventilating.

:hi:

[zulchzulu]

31. Let's admire Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld while we're at it

:puke:

[Yossariant]

37. OH?! We can only admire Ronald Reagan, I suppose?!

:rofl:

[Apollo11]

38. ZING!

:thumbsup:

[zulchzulu]

49. Actually Reagan wasn't that experienced

Of course, shit like this would go over the head of a common Hillary supporter since most of her followers didn't have the brainpower to get into a community college.

Dumb asses.

[ctaylors6]

54. wasn't Reagan governor of CA for 2 terms?

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

40. well, if we're supposed to vote for the candidate with the most experience, that's McCain alright.

...or maybe there's more to the equation.

[Apollo11]

41. Any candidate with "a lifetime of experience" is qualified.

Obama is basically too young. He only has around half a lifetime! ;-)

[Warren Stupidity]

43. So you agree then: Clinton out you'll vote McCain.

Clinton's remarks have already done their job on you.

[Apollo11]

47. No way!

But I think it's wrong to accuse Hillary of endorsing John McCain.

[Warren Stupidity]

71. So you will vote for somebody you claim is unqualified?

Please explain.

[Apollo11]

76. I will support whoever is the Democratic nominee

Hillary is trying to make her case why she should be the nominee, instead of Obama.

She is not saying that we should all go and vote for John McCain.

Her advisors are obviously telling her to sling mud at Obama.

I will admit, it's not pretty ....

[Warren Stupidity]

42. Clearly insinuating that Obama is unqualified to be president

and John McCain is qualified is a huge problem for me. Why isn't it for you?

[Yossariant]

44. You're losing the war. McCain is qualified. His ideas are wrong. Obama not qualified.

[Apollo11]

48. But if Obama wins the nomination, we will support him against McCain in the fall.

You missed out that part.

[Warren Stupidity]

72. Obama is not qualified to be president.

Your words. I rest my case.

[Auntie Bush]

45. Only Obamites think Mccain doesn't have 35 or so years of experience.

The can't admit the truth.

[Recursion]

46. Only Clinton fanatics think she *DOES* have 35 years of experience

She doesn't. She hasn't really accomplished all that much.

[Auntie Bush]

58. She's 61 and has been involved in politics since her college years.

That's a pretty long time. Obama wasn't even born for the first 20 years of her life. That gives her more experience. The woman is a smart lady and has been First Lady for at least 12 years. Don't you think she learned or absorbed anything about politics all those years. Oh yeah, I remember...she was busy figuring out how to murder Vince Foster...had no time for politics or health care.

[Recursion]

63. She had time for health care...

...and what a great job she did with it!

After that they didn't let her touch policy with a 10-foot-pole.

I repeat: she really hasn't accomplished all that much. Frankly Obama's community organization work in Chicago is more important experience to me, since he actually managed to get stuff done like getting lead paint of the housing projects.

[Levgreee]

75. Obama is 46. She is 15 years older, not 20.

It's funny that a candidate has to be older than 50 to be viable.

Obama has also been involved in politics for a long time. If you take him from the same age, he has 20 years of experience. I think 20 years is quite a lot.

[JVS]

52. Gloria Steinem had no problem claiming that while campaigning for Hillary in Texas

[mmonk]

53. No. Comparing a democrat negatively to him might.

[lojasmo]

55. "we" are not supposed to expound on his laurels

In differentiating us from our fellow democrats.

[Neshanic]

56. Don't worry Ms. Obama will be disecting the "alleged" comment. Then all better!

[Upton]

57. She could have kept her big mouth shut

about McCain and touted only her experience.

[Apollo11]

60. But it's all about who can beat McCain in November.

Hillary is saying that she has a lifetime of experience, as does John McCain.

She is not saying McCain would be a better President than Obama.

[Recursion]

65. Don't you get it? She LOSES an experience comparison with McCain

She doesn't seem to get that.

She doesn't remotely have his level of experience or accomplishments. This is the exact worst direction to be moving the debate in.

[Apollo11]

68. Hillary also has good plans on healthcare, education, energy, economy, trade, foreclosures ....

The latest polls I have seen show that Hillary does better than Obama against McCain.

The most recent Rasmussen polls are showing this. I read it here on DU! B-)

[City Lights]

61. Are we to believe Obama's only experience was giving a speech?

:eyes:

[Apollo11]

69. That was nasty Hillary. She can also be likeable when she wants.

As far as I know - Mark Penn is in Hillary's corner yelling "Keep throwing that mud!"

[GoldieAZ49]

64. true, he put his country ahead of himself and almost died in service to his country

belittle his service will only serve to make more people vote for him

[SoonerPride]

66. Experience? Sure. The right decisions? NEVER.

McCain is a terrible pilot and a worse elected official.

[Abacus]

67. That's kind of a BS reduction of the arguement, but

going along with that line of reasoning: Does Obama not have a lifetime of experience? Is he nothing more than a speech from 2002?

[insanity]

70. Sure, he has experience

At best he has consistently been right at the wrong time

At worst he has been dead wrong the whole time.

I respect what the guy, I know I couldn't serve in war like he did, but he has shown himself to be a man incapable of leading the country.

[HeraldSquare212]

78. No, but we're not supposed to compare it favorably to one of our potential nominees.

[Vinca]

79. No, but it would be nice if we didn't write his commercials for him.

"Even Hillary Clinton acknowledges John McCain is more qualified to be president . . . " Tape plays. The woman is killing the Democratic chances in November.