Just Laughing Off Deliberate, Malicious Sexism Directed Toward Hillary Clinton

[bigtree]

from Media Matters: http://mediamatters.org/items/200802260002?f=h_latest


Buchanan: Clinton's raised voice is one "every husband in America ... has heard at one time or another"



Summary: On Morning Joe, Pat Buchanan said that when Sen. Hillary Clinton "raises her voice, and when a lot of women do ... it reaches a point ... where every husband in America ... has heard at one time or another." He later stated, "I know that's a sexist comment." Commentator Mike Barnicle previously compared Clinton to "everyone's first wife standing outside a probate court."

On the February 26 edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe, political analyst Pat Buchanan asserted that when Sen. Hillary Clinton "raises her voice, and when a lot of women do, you know, it's -- as I say -- it reaches a point ... where every husband in America ... has heard at one time or another." Co-host Mika Brzezinski replied: "Oh, Pat, you're lucky you're not in the studio, I'm telling you." Buchanan laughed and said: "I know that's a sexist comment ... but there's truth to it! ... There's truth to it." He continued: "It's very difficult for women to reach those kinds of levels effectively, as it is to make them sort of a rally speech. They're not good at that."

Brzezinski then said:

BRZEZINSKI: There is something so wrong with what you're saying, and what I fear is that the effect may be exactly what you're saying because of this double standard that people can't hear strength from a woman without using the B-word, and quite frankly, if that is what people are going to take away from this, it just seems to me as, well, everything that the Clinton campaign is arguing then.

Earlier in the segment, Buchanan had stated: "It's very tough for a woman. You see two men going back and forth at each other, you say, 'Boy, they're really going at it.' ... And you see two women or something, and say, 'Boy, what a catfight this is.' "

On the January 23 edition of Morning Joe, while discussing the January 21 Democratic presidential debate with an all-male panel that included co-hosts Joe Scarborough, Willie Geist, and correspondent David Shuster, political and social commentator Mike Barnicle said of Clinton: "When she reacts the way she reacts to Obama with just the look, the look toward him, looking like everyone's first wife standing outside a probate court, OK? Looking at him that way, all I could think of ... was this fall, if it's McCain that she's facing, McCain is likable. She's not." All three MSNBC hosts laughed at Barnicle's comparison of Clinton to "everyone's first wife standing outside a probate court," with Scarborough interrupting Barnicle by laughing loudly before saying, "I'm sorry. Go ahead."

From the February 26 edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe (transcript of the exchanges) : http://mediamatters.org/items/200802260002?f=h_latest

[Ken Burch]

1. No, I don't laugh it off at all.

I don't accept that I have to switch to supporting HRC to prove I don't laugh it off, but I damn well DON'T laugh it off.

I'd like to respond to it with some deliberate, malicious sexism directed towards Pat Buchanan.

Pat Buchanan is a traditionalist Catholic. In twenty years of marriage Pat Buchanan has no kids.

He's either a closet case or he shoots blanks. Place yer bets, campers!

[Tatiana]

2. Dee Dee Myers talked about this last night and I found myself agreeing with a lot of the

points she made.

[emilyg]

11. So did I.

[rodeodance]

17. sorry i missed but glad to see are talking about this issue

[last1standing]

3. What do you expect? They're repubs.

These people have made a career out of convincing morons how good it was in the 1950s - and the 1890s for that matter. I know that there's plenty of sexism being floated around here as well, but its rarely to the degree of these cavemen.

[bigtree]

5. Take your blinders off.

There's been much worse originated and posted here at DU.

[last1standing]

10. Try to be a little more offensive and see if it gets you any further.

:freak:

[bigtree]

you have no idea where I want to go

but, I assure you, your opinion won't take me anywhere.

[last1standing]

38. Do you go into work and accuse everyone there of being sexist?

Do you point at strangers in the store and call them names? It must be a very lonely world in which everyone who doesn't agree with you is a misogynist.

[bigtree]

40. You didn't get accused of sexism. I told you to take your blinders off

Du's sexism is much more pernicious and offensive than the examples in the OP. I don't think many here will dispute that.

[last1standing]

46. You didn't accuse me, you accused a good portion of DU.

Of course there's sexism here, I never said there wasn't. I'm saying that it rarely rises to the level of people suggesting that we need to put women back in the kitchen like the cavemen in your O/P would like.

I've seen Clinton called "the old vaginas candidate" and and called "bitch" more times than I can count, but rarely do you see anyone see anyone suggesting that she's unfit to be a candidate because she's a woman and on the rare occasion it does happen, there are plenty of people - from both camps - quickly putting them down. I see more charges of sexism/racism than actual gross incidences of it.

[bigtree]

47. Take your blinders off.

[last1standing]

49. Thanks for the circular argument.

I won't be making the mistake of trying to discuss things with you again.

[bigtree]

50. .

:thumbsup:

[SayitAintSo]

76. I agree ... a simple search will reveal that... n/t

[rodeodance]

14. how blind are you------don't you see what is going on right HERE-on DU!!

[last1standing]

18. OH NOES!!!!! More obnoxious posting from a Clinton supporter.

Give it a rest. I said it "rarely" happens, not that it never does. If you're so blind that you can't read the entirety of my damned post then let me know so I can click the ignore button.

[rodeodance]

19. I disagree---it is rarely compared to anything. so stop with your lectures

3. What do you expect? They're repubs.

These people have made a career out of convincing morons how good it was in the 1950s - and the 1890s for that matter. I know that there's plenty of sexism being floated around here as well, but its rarely to the degree of these cavemen.

[last1standing]

21. Well, you've answered that question by being even more of an ass.

Goodbye.

[rodeodance]

24. and more name calling from you. bye bye

[Jamastiene]

77. I thought that the other day but somehow

some of the most offensive Obama assholes keep getting OFF my ignore list. I know not to bother going to the mods or admins about it, because they are rolling in the dough from this crap and won't help. I've had it.

[Jamastiene]

75. How the HELL do YOU keep getting OFF my Ignore List?

Goddammit, it's getting bad when I click ignore daily and still have to see your hateful tripe.

[Der Blaue Engel]

79. When the website is at Level 1 or 2, some of the options are turned off

including our Ignore lists. It's like someone turned the light on and all the cockroaches start scurrying around.

[jasmine621]

4. You know, i remember back in the 90's how the Republicans were all

about attack politics, negativity, divisiveness, slamming and smearing and how they were able to pin those very attributes to the Clintons and the Dems with the help of the obliging media. The Republicans and media were never called out for their vicious attacks on the Clintons, for showing the detailed transcript of Clinton's deposition on the Internet and printed page and then truning around and saying "what will we tell the children?" They were able to pin and label their own viciousness on the Clintons and many Dems stood silently by and allowed them to do that. Some of us even began to believe their spin that Dems were obstuctionist and dividers. I never heard either of the Clintons return nasty comments to any of their detractors on either side no matter how much the spin said they were evil, ambitious, self-serving etc. This allowed GW Bush to enter the arena claiming to be a "uniter not a divider." Many fell for it and thus we have all of the situations we now face...Iraq, Iran, deficits, bad economy, recession, and more hate for the US than we have seen in decades. Now here we go again, allowing many of the same actors portray the Clintons in the same way. Included in that number are even our own Dem party leaders and the front-runner for the Dem nomination. It just boggles my mind and saddens my heart that this is happening again. The Clintons emerged from the nineties seemingly with malice toward none and reconciliation toward many. I only hope they can do so once again.

[bigtree]

12. true. I've NEVER heard ANYTHING from Hillary Clinton which comes close to the abuse she's received

"Shame on you" was the extent of it in this campaign, and the opposition was beside themselves.

[jasmine621]

25. "Shame on them." I hope Hillary can maintain her class. nt

[Bluerthanblue]

6. I have refrained from posting the comments my son has told me

were going around at his job- Which were made before the primary (Jan 8 here in NH) - by a group of mechanics and truck drivers- He is by far the youngest, and most liberal among them, but their gut response to Hillary's speeches was very similar to what buchanan is saying-

'Who wants to spend the next four years being yelled at by an angry ex" was the gist of them.

That could have applied to either sex, but in this case it was not.

I think as uncomfortable as people may be with the reality, human beings cannot help but have some prejudices about ANY candidate that is not 'fair'- ( "Wow, Obama's so articulate as if being a black man should mean to expect something else) ( "Geez- Dennis' wife is a HOTTIE!!") it isn't fair. But, sadly, life is not fair.


peace~

[bigtree]

8. that sounds like a surrender to it all.

[Bluerthanblue]

26. no, not a surrender- simply an acceptance of how

things really are-

That doesn't mean that it is OK- It isn't ok that someone who isn't 'star-material' cannot become president- but it is reality.

It isn't ok that people are judged by their physical attributes, (something not 'earned' or 'achieved' but a result of dumb "luck") puts some people at an unfair advantage over others in many aspects of life- but it is reality.

It isn't ok that bush didn't have to struggle, and work hard for all that he has, while many really hard working, valuable, devoted people who weren't born into wealth and power to begin with, often struggle to make ends meet in this society- but it is reality.

Does admitting that mean surrendering to it?

peace~

[VotesForWomen]

32. "recognition" might be a better word than "acceptance." nt

[VotesForWomen]

31. a lot of women (particularly younger ones) don't have a clue about the reality you just referred to.

[Beacool]

34. A Democratic coworker told me that he couldn't vote for her

because her voice was shrill. Hillary has a medium range voice, not deep like Kathleen Turners' nor very high pitched and girlie. The problem lies in the fact that too many men can't handle a woman in command. No matter how progressive and modern we pretend to be, our society is very sexist.

Ever since Hilary was first lady up to now, I have read and heard the most vile and sexist things said about her. From comments about her physical appearance, her sexual desirability (or not) and on to her political beliefs, she has been on the receiving end of more garbage than any other female politician in my lifetime.

What has been abundantly clear this election is that there's a double standard about what is permissible to say about a candidate. Hardly anyone dares to question Obama for fear of being called a racist, while Hillary has been criticized for her hair, weight, age, clothes, cleavage, size of her backside and ankles, etc. etc.

The pathetic thing of it all is how many women joined in the merriment of debasing another female.

Sometimes I feel the reverse of Michelle Obama, this is the first time when I'm really NOT proud of my country.

[Bluerthanblue]

42. her voice only bothers me, when she is yelling- and that

is not only true of her, it is true of many people that I encounter.

I don't particularly like yelling- If you have to yell to get your point across, maybe your point isn't sharp enough to begin with-

I don't see this as sexist AT ALL. Let me tell you, I've known some pretty 'loud' and 'shrill' men in my time- and my response to them is much the same as my response to Hillary's yelling. Her speaking voice is actually very smooth, pleasant and easy to listen to.

:shrug:

peace~

[bigtree]

54. Obama yells almost constantly at his rallies. I never hear anything about that.

I really can't stand the shouting.

[papau]

7. there is a reason why women got the vote 50 years after the black man -and why Hillary was CHANGE vs

Obama's small letter change.

[rodeodance]

16. umm......

[Bluerthanblue]

29. many Black men AND women had to wait until the 1950's to actually

get the right to vote-

But I guess that fact doesn't really matter to many people.


It's easier to spin it to fit the circumstances.

:shrug:

peace~

[VotesForWomen]

36. what's your point? why didn't congress just give women the vote at the same time? clearly they reaso

reasoned that it was appropriate and necessary to give black *males* the vote but not women of any color. and make no mistake about the fact that women's rights advocates fought very hard to get sex included in the 15th amendment; they were refused, and their appeals were refused using every possible pretense and rubric for the next 50 years. why do you seem intent on making light of the very real and *wrong* existence of sexism?

[Bluerthanblue]

44. Black Americans had the 'right to vote' but they were not allowed to

excercise that right for the most part until nearly 100 yrs later.

What part of that don't you understand?

peace~

[VotesForWomen]

64. i am quite aware of that. what is your point? and you didn't answer the question. nt

[Bluerthanblue]

67. If I understood your 'message' you were calling the election of

a "Woman" BIG CHANGE- refrencing the fact that women only got the 'right to vote' after "black men"-
and the election of a "Black Man"-as only 'small change' again implying that society was more progressive about racial 'rights'- than it is towards 'womens rights'- to which I say- bull.

My Grandmother had 3 of her 5 children before she had the legal right to vote. But once that right was established, she never missed voting in an election the rest of her life. This was not an option for many, many Black Women OR Men until after the Civil Rights movement which didn't come around until the 1950's.

That is my point- did I miss yours?

peace~

[ProSense]

39. There is a reason white women were not lynched, sent to the back of the bus, during those 50 years.

Ever heard of segregation?

What bullshit!

[Forkboy]

9. All I know is I love that pic.

Couldn't happen to a nicer shithead.

[rodeodance]

20. its a beaty

[rodeodance]

13. M. BRZEZINSKI: There is something so wrong with what you're saying" and many

do not want to see it. nor do they care. Witness DU!

.......
BRZEZINSKI: There is something so wrong with what you're saying, and what I fear is that the effect may be exactly what you're saying because of this double standard that people can't hear strength from a woman without using the B-word, and quite frankly, if that is what people are going to take away from this, it just seems to me as, well, everything that the Clinton campaign is arguing then.

[rodeodance]

15. REC # 4

[rodeodance]

22. Thanks for taking the time to put this together.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

23. It's Buchanan.

What'd you expect?

:shrug:

[bigtree]

33. I 'expect' for DUers to recognize the parallels

. . . between right-wing tripe like this and the mind-exploding garbage which is deliberately and maliciously posted here at DU.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

35. No doubt about the garbage.

The vast majority can see it for what it is, though.

A few dozen folks post it while a hundred dozen dismiss it immediately.

[bigtree]

43. you're absolutely correct about that. The offenders seem to be a small pack of cretins.

Yet, our community here hasn't found a way to dismiss these abuses out of hand, to the degree that there's more hesitancy from folks in posting the tripe. It has permeated this forum with seeming impunity from outright reproach. That's my perspective.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

45. They'll disappear in a week.

And return in late September or early October.


Same as it ever was... -Talking Heads

[bigtree]

48. heh

best of luck to your candidate.

[VotesForWomen]

27. the sexism runs deep indeed throughout the entire human race. it will only end when women themselve

themselves start fighting back, and i give Mika a lot of credit for saying what she did.

[niyad]

28. can't wait for the sexism deniers to weigh in.

WHY is this bastard still being given air time? and WHY does KO have him on HIS show?

[washingdem]

30. Those are sexist comments

But Hillary is not losing because of sexism. Saying that she is poor sportsmanship.

[SeaLyons]

37. See it everyday ....

it's pathetic....

Hillary for President :)

[ProSense]

41. Sexism is nothing to laugh about, and neither is racism: Muslim, Farrakhan, terror, fear.

Hillary needs to focus on her campaign and stop whining!

[EFerrari]

51. I hope she finds a support group before she does any more damage.

Women all over the world deal with worse and more constructively than she has. With her resources and her privilege and her notoriety, you have to ask yourself why that is and how far you will go to defend someone who is so obviously self destructive with no concept of the damage she's doing to those around her.

No sale.

[bigtree]

52. The over 10 million Americans who voted for her apparently disagree with you

yet, you act as if you have some lock on truth and wisdom.

[ProSense]

53. Even more voted for Obama. That's reality! n/t

[robbedvoter]

57. But, of those 10 million, most are histerical women and the men unable to oppose them

:sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

63. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me.

You've done a good job of defending that campaign. I don't think they deserve you.

[rodeodance]

55. Deprogramming counseling will come into play soon.

[NorthernSpy]

58. right on...

Women all over the world deal with worse and more constructively than she has. With her resources and her privilege and her notoriety, you have to ask yourself why that is and how far you will go to defend someone who is so obviously self destructive with no concept of the damage she's doing to those around her.

No sale.

My sentiments exactly.

[robbedvoter]

56. reminds every man about his first wife" - posted on DU before pat said it

Someone should sue for copyright!
Of course DU will not be shocked - why, with all the PMS/Midol/histeria threads flying around.

[Seabiscuit]

59. "Hyuk, Hyuk, Hyuk". Fuckin' moronic sexist pigs.

I won't watch MSNBC/CNN/FOX any more. Haven't in ages. FOX, was, of course the first to go, many years ago.

[NastyRiffraff]

60. I've seen worse..FAR worse...on DU

True, it's thankfully a minority. And I applaud Obama supporters in particular who quickly and sharply take the guilty to task. Still, it's NOT uncommon to see vile, sexist slurs about Hillary on these boards.

Some people repeat every single Repub talking point about her, and then are offended when someone calls them on it.

[NorthernSpy]

61. Pat Buchanan also has it in for blacks and Jews. He's an all-weather bigot.

Of course he doesn't wish Hillary well -- he doesn't wish Obama well, either. He's a man of the Far Right.

You're surprised?

[formernaderite]

62. vocal tone and pitch however do play a role

higher pitched voices do grate when played at loud volumes. My wife has a smoky voice....so it never sounds shrill. ON the other hand, I have an older brother who's vocal pitch is pretty high for a man, and he grated on all our nerves growing up when he got angry. Obama happens to have near perfect pitch and cadence. It does hurt Hillary...regardless if you want to call it sexist or not.

[bigtree]

69. She doesn't have a high pitch at all. It's a mid-range woman's voice

. . . which is described as shrill to generate a calculated negative reaction.

Obama yells and hollers a lot. That's annoying to me.

[formernaderite]

80. true her normal speaking voice is mid range

and she doesn't sound shrill until she raises her voice. Whether for excitement or feigned anger. This happens to anyone who cannot use a lower octave...not just Hillary.

[jackstraw45]

65. Pat Buchanan say something sexist? SHOCKED I tell you...

Next thing I know you're going to tell me Ann Coulter attacked the 9/11 widows and then my head will really explode!

:eyes:

Personally, I'm sick of the Clinton campaign/supporters trying to gain women's votes by claiming MAINSTREAM sexism against their campaign. THe strategy is so transparent....

[bigtree]

68. tough shit. It's worse than TV here.

And, criticism of the sexist trash which is passed off as political discourse isn't about the votes, it's about what's a right and fair representation of the community here and elsewhere.

[Raffi Ella]

66. .

Why don't people realize that it's because women have been "sent to the back of the bus", that is to say relegated to lower roles in working society,that they are never seen as anything BUT a shrill wife or ex if she IS in a position of power or asking for one where you have to "fight" for it?

It is exactly for that reason that society thinks those things when they see a woman running for President.They equate any woman who is not polite and smiling with an angry wife or ex because THAT is what they think of women in the first place.But running for President isn't about being "nice" and that's where Hillary runs into sexism.

Hell,even when she smiled and was nice that was seen as conniving wiles of a female running for President!

Maybe some day we will as a society accept that women are not men and that that is ok - just as we "accept" that black people have darker skin and that that doesn't mean something is wrong with them or that they aren't as smart or capable as any other person on earth.Maybe one day women will be accepted in that same way.Maybe some day.But not this day,not while Hillary is being demonized for her "femaleness".

[elixir]

70. I guess I feel like a fool because I thought we were ready for a female candidate. What a shame

that we've disparaged this truly worthy candidate.

[bigtree]

78. so many of these criticisms have been allowed to flourish in normal conversations

I guess it's unrealistic to imagine they wouldn't snicker their way into mainstream political conversations in this election.

[Straight Shooter]

71. Too bad Hillary didn't smoke for most of her adult life. Then her voice would be "husky."

Gawd almighty. Who in the world has a more grating voice than george w. bush? Yet never once did the media mention that asshat's shortcomings in the department of vocal talent.

[JimGinPA]

72. Why The Fuck Would You Watch "Morning Joe" Anyway

Do you think that little of yourself?


:eyes:

[bigtree]

74. it's a Media Matters article which I posted here as a mirror

save your condescending bullshit.

[SayitAintSo]

73. I find this so disgusting....

If any good comes of this I hope its a heightened awareness of the sexism that pervades our culture.

[Blue_In_AK]

81. There's a reason why all those first wives are "exes"

you asshats. Because YOU are such assholes.

I'm not usually overly sensitive to sexism, but this campaign has been beyond the pale, IMO.

ed. Clarify to say that I don't blame Obama. It's more the media's fault, as usual.