If Obama can be Nader'd then Obama is not that hot

[lame54]

I'm tired of hearing how Nader lost the dems the election - Gore should have wiped the floor with that moron-in-thief but did not run a good campaign, and he STILL won - it was stolen from him and us
There should never be a time when a third party candidate cannot run

[Warren Stupidity]

1. They can run. We can't support them here.

Those are the rules.

[lame54]

4. ???

:wtf:

[Warren Stupidity]

17. "There should never be a time"

"There should never be a time when a third party candidate cannot run"

they can run, we can't support them here.

[lame54]

30. By reminding me of the rules implies...

that you think that I am supporting Nader when i have done no such thing

[Warren Stupidity]

33. You seem to be walking a fine line. nt.

[lame54]

35. I'm voting democrat...

and I don't blame Nader for 2000

[tekisui]

2. Obama's not worried, and neither am I.

Mr. .38% will do worse this run.

[billbuckhead]

5. I predict Nadir will break 5% if Obama is the candidate

Warmonger Zblignew's puppet Obama, will prove to be a very unpopular candidate the closer the election gets.

[saltpoint]

10. I'm thinking less than 1%. And only that if the weather's pretty good.

Nader has no constituency. Rather, he has one, but it's barely enough for a game of Twister.

He's welcome to run but a lot of people who might have taken him more seroiusly in the past as a consumer advocate have tuned him out. The signal has grown exceedingly weaker year by year and by now it's mostly fuzz and static.

[casus belli]

11. Nader only got .38% last time. You're delusional. n/t

[VolcanoJen]

31. OK, Baghdad Bill.

Nader's even older than McCain. Enjoy voting for him!

[billbuckhead]

38. Nadir will have more money and media support than ever

[Alexander]

42. From Republicans like yourself?

[saltpoint]

3. No one argues against Constitutional sanction to run for office.

But this Democrat argues that Ralph Nader is an ego-driven bozo.

[lame54]

8. see reply 6...

it comes pretty close

[chieftain]

47. How so?

[Inspired]

24. I'm surprised you feel this way, OC.

Nader doesn't have my vote but I have a lot of respect for the work that he has done in the past on the behalf of the American public. I believe everything he said today on Meet the Press but I admit to being VERY progressive in my views.

I am a loyal Democrat so I will only vote for our nominee but I have nothing but respect for people who speak the truth. I also feel that most people who run for president are ego-driven. They aren't all bozos but I don't think Nader is a bozo either.

If he becomes a liability, which right now I doubt he will be, then maybe our chosen candidate isn't representing our party the way he/she should. Maybe THAT is what needs to change.

[saltpoint]

41. I'm disinclined toward Ralph Nader.

I take back the 'bozo' remark.

[Inspired]

43. Thanks....you know he is responsible for saving thousands of lives.

His work on behalf of the American public against the automobile industry alone is worthy of taking back to bozo remark! I wish he wasn't running though....and you know....he wouldn't be if Edwards was our nominee. That speaks volumes to me. I still wouldn't consider voting for him and I, too, wish he wasn't running.

[saltpoint]

45. I think you are spot-on regarding Nader's not running were Edwards our

inevitable nominee.

Edwards had the domestic agenda covered (and not least, the role of corporate citizenship) which are Nader's high cards.

[chieftain]

6. True the election was stolen. But Nader aided and abetted

in the theft and cannot escape his responsibility for the assault on the Constitution, our shared values and the raid on our treasury. Nader should be castigated by Democrats whenever he pokes his head out of his hole and into the political fray.

[saltpoint]

14. As I read the Constitution, Nader, sorry-ass loser that he is, is nevertheless

meeting Constitutional requirements to run for office.

You may not vote for him.

I won't be either.

But I do not argue that he's not "allowed" to run.

I will be arguing against the rationale for his candidacy at just about every other level, though.

[chieftain]

48. I don't argue that he should not be allowed to run. But I do

say that Democrats should be extremely critical of him whenever he enters the political colloquy. Castigation does not mean that he be excluded from the rights of citizenship. But the baloney that he was not part of the reason we have been saddled with this criminal regime should be strenuously resisted whenever it is injected into the political debate.

[Vinca]

7. Uh . . . Gore won. Remember? The Supremes crowned King George.

Nader will have little if any impact this year. A vote for Nader gives an advantage to McCain and enables 100 years of war.

[lame54]

12. Uh....yeah, I remember - that's why it's in the OP

[Fleurs du Mal]

15. 100 years of war

Good, maybe something will really change rather than having two half-assed Imperialists parade around like liberals.

[VolcanoJen]

9. Nader broke his promise to not campaign in swing states.

He received over 9,000 votes in Florida that otherwise would have gone to Gore 3:1. Nader did not wholly lose the election for the Democrats alone, but his stubborn inability to acknowledge any role in that horrible election makes him more like George W. Bush than I'm comfortable with.

Fuck Nader. Now, more than ever. :grr:

[Exilednight]

20. "He received over 9,000 votes in Florida that otherwise would have gone to Gore "

I hate when people say this. It does nothing more than show their ignorance. No one has proof that Gore would have received those votes. Votes are earned and not owed.

I hate Nader as much as the next guy, but not for some subjective attitude of ignorance.

If you support Nader, then I have several questions.

1. Why?

2. If Nader wants to be taken as a serious candidate, then why doesn't he do something during the off election years.

3. Why doesn't Nader form his own party instead of jumping on bandwagons of fringe parties, and on the ticket of anyone who will have him? I honestly believe the guy would run on the nazi party ticket if they would allow him.

4. Tell me how Nader is not an opportunist?

[VolcanoJen]

22. Nice, but that's not what I was saying.

If you really believe Gore couldn't have siphoned 300 extra votes from Nader's 9,000, then you should probably be working on the Hillary Clinton campaign.

[Occam Bandage]

13. Oh, he can run. But if you support him, you can't post here.

[lame54]

16. This post is not about supporting him...

It is about not worrying about him and using him as a scapegoat if things go poorly for Obama.
Obama will be president if he can get enough people to vote for him - that simple
Every vote Nader gets is a vote Nader earns and is not owed to anybody else

[Frances]

18. Shouldn't this discussion be on Naderunderground?

Right. He doesn't have enough supporters.

[Warren Stupidity]

21. Dynamics of third party campaigns.

A run from the left hurts the Democratic Party in the election, for example Nader. A run from the right hurts the Republican Party, for example Wallace in '72. A run from the center draws votes from both sides and typically does not harm either party in the general election, for example Perot.

Nader probably did not cost Gore the election, but a case can be made that he might have done just that in Florida and New Hampshire, both of which went to Bush by less than the Nader vote. I don't happen to agree that this is what happened, but it is possible.

Your theory: "Every vote Nader gets is a vote Nader earns and is not owed to anybody else" is incomplete and incorrect. In a winner take all system, where those votes came from and where they would have gone had the candidate not been running can make a difference.

[lame54]

25. If they were Gore's votes....

It is because Gore would have convinced them to vote for him

[Warren Stupidity]

32. You are being obtuse.

The Nader votes can be roughly divided up two ways if Nader is not in the race: wouldn't have voted and would have voted Gore. We can assume that essentially no Nader voters would have voted for Bush. Yes obviously Nader convinced the Nader voters to vote for him. The question is could that affect the outcome of the election, and the answer is yes it can. The followup question: did Nader cost Gore the 2000 election is harder to answer, I say no, others say yes, but it most certainly is possible that he did just that.

[lame54]

36. by your reply - it is most certainly possible that he didn't...

now - who's being obtuse?

[Warren Stupidity]

37. What?

In both Florida and New Hampshire Nader votes were larger than the difference between Gore and Bush. How is it almost certain that Nader did not cost Gore the election?

[high density]

19. Who says Obama can be "Nadered"?

Look at 2004. Nobody listened to him, he couldn't even get admitted to debates. I don't think this year is going to be much different.

[Mr.Fitzgibbons]

23. Call a wide-eyed innocent, but Obama would be stronger vs. Nader than Hillary

because he already attracts the voters that tend to go for Nader -- college students, the "Ben & Jerry" crowd as someone posted earlier. Hillary would no doubt lose these votes to Nader, maybe, though it seems to me even Nader voters are disgusted with Nader.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

28. Yet somehow in Clintonland the opposite is true.

The "Ben and Jerry" voters will magically stay home if she is the nominee, while the Democratic base will carry her over the top. :crazy:

[VolcanoJen]

26. Nader received 411,304 votes in 2004.

He received 2,800,000+ in 2000.

Am I supposed to be frightened of this self-satisfied shark-jumping asshat?

[lame54]

27. No - that's the point...

but he shouldn't be used as a scapegoat either

[VolcanoJen]

29. Scapegoat?

He's not even a goat. There is absolutely nothing to see here.

[dcindian]

34. no is treating him as a scapegoat

He did what he did. Nothing to hide here, folks on DU are just pointing that out. To be a scapegoat means he had nothing to do with the earlier loses due to his hatred of the democratic way.

Why do you find it necessary to apologize for this infestation of a man?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

40. He Rightfully Has Earned All The Vitriol Cast Upon Him.

He's a piece of shit. Period.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

39. Awwwwww, How Cute, Someone Defending Puw Wittle Nadey Wadey.

He can run. But I reserve my right as an intelligent citizen to think him a completely ignorant, narcissistic, egotistical, self absorbed, childish, attention seeking, brain dead, useless to everyone, deluded, deceitful, dishonest, warped, psychotic, influential to morons, totally clueless, wrong, irrational utter piece of motherfuckin filth, who is largely responsible for a 7+ year nightmare this globe has seen.

[JI7]

44. Nader made people think Bush wasn't so bad

by claiming Bush and Gore were alike.

[Forkboy]

46. Nader is our Clenis. It allows us to never have to look in the collective mirror.

And think about WHY he ran, and why many liked his message. That would mean actually looking at ourselves as a Party and why so many believed Nader and the no difference argument, and that's a lot harder than calling people names.