Nader Democrats, Please Come Home!

[wyldwolf]

I understand "Nader Democrats," because 22 years ago, I was a "John Anderson Democrat." I felt the same way about Jimmy Carter Nader Democrats seem to feel about Al Gore... I consider Nader himself a lost cause, but I will not abandon good people who saw Nader as a worthy cause - the Nader Democrats.

I remember that the day after Election Day 1980, my government professor Isaac Kramnick, now Provost of Cornell University tongue-lashed Anderson supporters for helping Reagan. We didn't think Reagan could possibly win. Our professor knew better.

Professor Kramnick realized Carter had flaws, but understood what we didn't. Carter was a decent man and a worthy President. Reagan was neither. He also knew that making the perfect (or idealized) the enemy of the good (or realistic) makes for dismal results.

I don't excuse my mistake. I knew better, although it was my first Presidential Election. After the debacle in 1980, I've never helped another Republican by splitting from my party. I've worked to change it from within. But this is not about me. It's about the lesson I learned the hard way...

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[rockymountaindem]

1. Please come back!

We need everyone to fight Bush.

:grouphug:

[mike_c]

2. I guess I'm a "green democrat...."

John Kerry is just to much of the same old, same old for my taste. I don't know about Nader-- I didn't vote for him in 2000-- but I'll reserve judgement until I see what the Greens are going to do.

[elperromagico]

3. How many ballots will Nader be on anyway? Are we even sure?

[revcarol]

4. They came back for Kucinich.

Talking to them, they have a hard time with WTO/NAFTA/GATT/fast track/MFN trade with China/Patriot Act/stay in Iraq/no significant reduction in defense budget Kerry.

Can you blame them?

If you can't, some will. This thread will become flamebait in a few posts.

They were willing to give the Democrats a chance again, and they get same-o,same-o, nothing progressive SO FAR. However, if Kerry gets on the ball, we may keep some.

[Crunchy Frog]

5. This 2000 Nader voter

is definitely home, and voting straight ticket Democrat at least for this election.

I never bought the no difference between the parties line, but I was mad at Gore, and pretty unhappy with the Democratic party as a whole. I didn't realize how truly horrible Bush would be, although I knew he was bad. This time around, the only one that I wouldn't have voted for was Lieberman.

I'm OK with Kerry although he wasn't my first choice. I definitely know that he isn't even remotely comparable to Bush. I really don't understand people who say they are the same.

Unfortunately, if we lose this election, it may not matter much who we vote for in the future, as our votes may be meaningless anyway.:-(

[flaminbats]

13. never fear...

I shall not drive you out! :yourock:

[Crunchy Frog]

14. Never fear,

there's nothing you could possibly do or say that would drive me out. I have always been a loyal Democratic voter, I was just very out of sorts with the party in 2000. I kind of still am, but there is no way that I wouldn't do everything in my power to get rid of the Chimp.

Also my opinion of Nader has shifted pretty dramatically since 2000. I would never vote for him again. If I ever do vote 3rd party again, I can guarantee you that it won't be Nader.

It also won't be this election. I honestly don't see how anyone can not see what the stakes are this year.

[flaminbats]

15. We have one major difference of opinion..

my opinion of Nader during the last four years has not changed, but my opinion of Kerry has improved dramatically. I did not vote for Nader in 2000, although I was tempted to. I voted for Gore because it was a close race, and Nader wasn't on the ballot where I cast my vote in 2000.

Although my opinion of Nader has not gone down, my opinion of Bush and Cheney have. You may not see how anyone cannot see what the stakes are this year, but that is how I felt four fucking years ago!

To put it simply, nobody wins by playing the blame game..but everyone loses. The way to win is to provide voters with what they want, and forget about Ralph Nader...he cannot help us win or lose this election!

[RichM]

6. No. Please grovel more, first. Say, "Pretty please with a cherry on top."

Either that, or get a candidate who can say the following sentence: "We invaded Iraq largely for the OIL; it was criminally wrong, and I apologize for not saying so earlier."

[tedoll78]

11. Okay.

I'm officially groveling. Pretty please - with a cherry on top. I can get whipped cream too, if you'd like. Seriously.

Kerry wasn't my first choice. He wasn't my third or fourth choice, or fifth. But when I look at the ballot, I don't see his name. I see "Chief Justice Stephen Breyer" up against "Chief Justice Antonin Scalia."

I see Rehnquist dying of shock on election night at learning of Bush's loss, only to be replaced by a Souter-clone - or better.

I see John Paul Stevens, who's put our freedoms before his health for at least the past four years, finally getting to retire and spend some time with his wife before he passes.

I see Sandra Day O'Connor doing penance for 2000, allowing Mr Kerry to appoint her replacement.

I see myself finally getting to marry my partner of 8 years when the new Supreme Court appointees make a difference in the upcoming gay marriage case.

I see U.S. citizens being declared free from their "unarmed combatants" status.

I see the mentally challenged and the underaged thanking you for sparing their lives from the electric chair and the poisoned needle.

I see the spared lives of women not forced to go through dangerous procedures for an illegal abortion.

I see thousands of children thanking you for helping us get a court that upholds and cherishes the EPA's Clean Air standards so that they don't need to live their lives attached to albuterol inhalers.

...

So yes, I grovel to you and all other Swing State Nader Voters. I feel it from the pit of my heart. A vote for Kerry might not feel as good as a vote for Nader, but it will make a million universes' worth of difference in many peoples' lives. I, and many others, thank you for your consideration.

[AntiCoup2K4]

7. I thought Anderson was a Republican who split from the party....

...after Reagan's nomination? So that being the case, shouldn't most of Anderson's votes come from moderate Republicans who didn't like Reagan's radical religious right message?

As for the Nader Democrats, they could have easily voted for Kucinich, many of them were already backing Dean. Possibly Clark might have had a few of them as well.

Instead we end up with the DLC's chosen nominee, who voted for the Patriot Act, the IWR, and all the other Bush enabling votes over the last three years. Now my point here is not to rehash WHY he voted for them, but fact is, he DID, and many people view that as not only a sellout, but a validation of what Nader said in 2000, that there wasn't a dime's worth of difference between the two parties.

While I don't agree that's true of the whole party, it certainly applies to the DLC and other elements of the so called "leadership" which hasn't done much leading since our constitutionally elected government ceased to exist 3 1/2 years ago. And therefore, after proving Nader right, how do you ask his supporters to come back with a straight face?

For the record, I didn't vote for Nader in 2000. Never even considered it. Was actually comfortable with either Gore or Bradley, so much so that I used my primary vote to help John McCain. Because I knew the one man I did NOT want in the White House was the Idiot Son of an Asshole, George Bush Jr. And that McCain primary vote was the ONLY time in my life I ever voted anything other than Democrat in a Presidential election. But I have to admit that if Gore had voted for several things that directly harmed this country, like illegal wars or constitution shredding acts, then I would not have been likely to vote for him either. Appeasing fasicsm just isn't my thing.

That being the case, I can't presume to lecture the Nader voters or call them names. Discuss things rationally with them, yes. But I can't convince them to vote for Kerry when I can barely convince myself.

[flaminbats]

8. Kerry needs your support...

not by going door to door getting signatures for yet another candidate on the ballot, but by going to these same houses to get votes for Kerry. Kerry may not have the same agenda that Nader does, but his objectives are identical.

Kerry may not embrace single-payer healthcare, but he will open something like the Federal Employees' Health Benefits Program up to the uninsured..who would no longer be denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions or genetic testing. He may not support the repeal of the entire tax-cut, but he would not help Republicans renew any of them. Kerry's first act as President would be bringing home troops now deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Only Kerry can stop the de-regulatory acts of this Republican Congress, without the fear of having his veto overridden.

Most importantly, if Kerry won by a large enough margin..he would have the coattails necessary to sweep in a Democratic Senate and possibly some Greens into Congress! :grouphug:

[revcarol]

26. Where are you getting your "info" on Kerry?

Being able to tie into the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program does not equal care. It pays 30% of what could be care into insurance companies and HMO administration and profits and gives us a TAX CREDIT of $1000 at the end of the tax year.So if you are in the 20% bracket, you don't have to pay $20% taxes on $1000, while you lose 30% of $5 or $6 thousand. If you think Greens and Independents love paying the insurance cos/HMO's profits, you haven't talked to one!!

Kerry does NOT propose bringing home the troops from either place. He would REPLACE our National Guard and Reserve troops with regular troops. He will try to internationalize the OCCUPATION force, with fat contracts going to those who agree.This is NOT getting the U. S. out of Afghanistan and Iraq, it's just leaving the U. S. in charge and getting a few more troops so he can say we have a coalition of the willing.And he will NOT significantly reduce the OFFENSE BUDGET.A BIGGIE for Greens and independents.

[Old and In the Way]

9. Good post.

Personally, I cannot believe any intelligent progressive could even begin to construct a case not to vote Democratic in November. But I am most concerned with the 18-22 year olds who may be tempted to vote for Nader because:

(1) He's not a Democrat or a Republican.
(2) He's anti-___________
(3) He's pro- ___________

I remember how idealistic I was a 22, brand new BA in Poli-Sci and all. While I've become progressively dumber over 30 years, I do have one redeeming value. I can remember the Democratic assassinations in the 60's and the administrations of Nixon, Reagan, Bush1, Bush2 with many of the same faces. I can see the historical slide into national fascism that this country is in danger of slipping into....that's something an 18 year-old probably can't appreciate.

[NNadir]

10. Anyone who's not ABB by now is probably a basket case.

You may as well plead with the moon.

That's my guess anyway.

[flaminbats]

12. I can agree more!!!

The Bushies are Basket cases! So then who is left? :shrug: The divided ABBs..

[MadHound]

16. You want to get Nader and Green Dems back, then make us an offer.

Seriously, the Democratic party cannot continue to rely on fearmongering and bully boy tactics to get peopleto fall into line. What they need to do is co-opt a couple of planks from the Green platform and give people something to vote for. You know, something like universal health care, and a living wage. It is called practicing the art of the compromise. FDR did it, that's how we wound up with Social Security and unemployment insurance. Kerry needs to do it in this campaign.

Think about it. Most Greens and Naderites are disgruntled Dems. They are intelligent pragmatic people, and if you give them something to vote for, they will come swarming back in droves. Along with those folks, I think you would get a large percentage of that great nonvoting block out there. Think about it, a lot of nonvoters are so beaten down, are such victims of the system in this country that they have come to the conclusion that no matter who is elected, they are going to still be poor and beaten down. If you offered these people something that would change their lives radically for the better, like UHC would, many of these people would come out and vote. You could probably get 25% of the nonvoting population, and that translates into 12 million new votes. Think about it, 12 million new votes would insure a Kerry victory, and have long coattails to get other Dems into office nationwide.

All you have to do is a little compromise.

[wyldwolf]

17. I was just quoting an article written by someone who...

...has been burned twice by third party candidates.

I found wisdom in these words: "making the perfect (or idealized) the enemy of the good (or realistic) makes for dismal results."

Though it doesn't apply to all of them, I also believe many Naderites don't want compromise - they want their way or the highway.

[flaminbats]

21. I see...

so this is why they support global peace and cooperation. :eyes:

[wyldwolf]

23. are you saying this is the only issue the Naderites have?

... :eyes:

No, to them, there is no difference between the democrats and the republicans.

I'm sure they find it compforting to have their heads in the sand.

[flaminbats]

24. please forgive me ole dogship...

I did not mean to offend ye with mine commanding ways. :spank:

[wyldwolf]

25. You're forgiven

Have a nice day.

[Sparkly]

19. Pragmatic?!?

The *last* word I'd used to describe anybody voting for Nader is "pragmatic." If your house is on fire, it's not pragmatic send away the one firefighter who can put it out because you don't think his hose is the right length.

Nor do I understand why it's difficult to grasp what's at stake. Things are changing dramatically for the worse, on every issue -- the environment, the war, the national debt, unemployment, corporate rule -- and we need ABB to stop that train! Yet I'm hearing we need to add something *else* that would "change people's lives radically for the better?" Like what, a tax cut? Worked for Bush. Or maybe some promises that can't possibly be kept? Don't people see what's happening now, what interest on the debt does, what corporate deregulation does, what alienating the world does? Is it blindness or selfishness at work here? I don't get it.

[mandyky]

18. This Nader Democrat had found a home with Dean

I'll vote for Kerry, but it sure doesn't feel like home.

[Kitsune]

20. Believe me, I want to.

I really, really want to.

But I really don't think I can vote for Kerry, and I really, really want to be able to.

[LWolf]

22. Thanks for a positive post!

I'm not a Nader dem; more like a green dem, although I didn't vote for Nader in 2000. I know many greens and other independent and 3rd party voters see the need for ousting Bush; many of the Kucinich supporters were greens coming back to the dems when offered hope for positive change. Whether they will stick around and vote for Kerry, I don't know. I will; I would not inflict 4 more years of * on anyone.

The best hope to keep those 3rd party or independent voters with us in November is, IMO, for Kerry to meet some of their concerns or issues in a way that makes them feel supported.

[Meshuga]

27. I wish that greens and Nader democrats would join us...

in supporting Kerry because if we lose this election we are pretty screwed as far as supreme court nominations!

Bush doesn't have any problems naming hardcore conservatives to fill those seats. If that happens we are pretty much screwed and Greens will be worse off... We have a legislative branch dominated by Republicans who will help Bush in his quest to make sure we have a very conservative judicial branch.

One example of what could happen if Bush wins this year is that we can pretty much say bye-bye to abortion rights...

I wish greens and "Nader Democrats" would take at least that one aspect into consideration when voting in November.