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My second cycle as a cult member. Interesting times.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 10:58 PM
Original message
My second cycle as a cult member. Interesting times.
Edited on Fri Feb-22-08 11:02 PM by madfloridian
It really got heated here in 2003 and 2004. A talking point went out from "somewhere" that Howard Dean's supporters were cult-like. That we were fringe. That Dean was fringe. That we drank the kool-aid, that we were young, idealistic, and absolute worshippers. In fact the majority of Deaniacs were well past the prime age of "cultism." I know I most certainly am.

But you see, facts did not matter then either. "Cult" then as it is now was a word to conjure up mindless enthusiasm, idolatry, and general lack of intelligence. I left one website because that theme continued well after 2004, just being used as an insult.

The same thing is happening now to the supporters of Barack Obama. I am not sure of the source of the talking point, but I have a pretty good idea. It is popping up here at DU on a regular basis. It is usually in the form of expressing concern about the "harm" being done. Just like in 2004.

Well, perhaps there should be "harm done". Harm to a system that uses ugly talking points against people who dare to be enthusiastic, and who dare to show that they are inspired.

James Carville gave us a clue to the source when he went on CNN and said Howard Dean was building a cult at the DNC.

I have watched the exciting rallies for Obama, then I come here and see the putting down of these people who are feeling real inspiration again. I see the posts expressing concern that Obama supporters will harm the candidate or the party.

I found this blog today. It is addressing that very issue.

The Cult Topic

The blogger says the cult thing is about fear of passion. This blogger has a fine way with words.

Whether it was the "war on Gore's earth tones" campaign of 2000 or the "you're just so angry, Howard Dean" bullshit of 2004, the pundits largely disdain people who get all het up about politics. It's just strategy, moving pieces around the board, what this camp said to that camp, it's all fairly bloodless to them. In their eyes, the first person to raise her voice loses the argument and I can't even tell you how crazy that is, because honestly, the person who gives more of a shit about this is the person who's at a disadvantage, really? We're all supposed to be too cool for this sort of thing, too hip for the room? It's uncouth, isn't it, somehow, this rabble of shouting and cheering, this whole thing where we actually get excited. It's so nonconfrontational passive-aggressive, it's so completely full of shit, but they've laid down the rules: You get involved, god forbid you get emotionally involved, and you've lost the thread.


The blogger is right. It wasn't always this way. I have my own ideas when it started but that is not the point of this post.

It didn't used to be that way. The journalists I admire most are the ones who wrote so you could hear their voices thundering in rage, the Jimmy Breslins and William Evjues and Brian McGrorys, the Miriam Ottenbergs, the people who tore up the page, such that you had to take a deep breath after reading, such that your breakfast got cold while they held your attention. It used to be a mark of excellence, the strut and power of your words. It used to be that you wrote what you wrote because something was wrong and god damn it, you were gonna scream about it at the top of your lungs until somebody was gonna do something. It used to be about a mission, fucking hell, it used to be why we got up in the morning.


Suggests that in some way it might go back to 9/11, when Ari Fleischer told us to be careful what we said. Or perhaps fear of criticism, fear of losing to the great God Bush. (Ok, that last was my idea).

What happened to that? Twenty years of shrieking that passion was bias, that advocacy was crusading, that objectivity was evenhanded treatment of assholes and insects as though their wankery mattered, but I think in large part people in media got bored, in 2000, and scared, after 2001. It became okay, in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, to refrain from talking too loud or saying too much, it became okay to tell other people they ought to shut up. The minute that happened, all the rest of it followed, freedom fries and supporting the troops, swift-boating and spy-outing, all of it became okay because anything was acceptable so long as it didn't happen with too much pizzazz. Wouldn't want to draw attention. Wouldn't want to make a splash. Wouldn't want, for the love of God, to stand up and speak because you saw what happened to people who did that. They were called crazy. Sit down, write about how awful it is that Code Pink yelled at Donald Rumsfeld and some blogger has breasts. I hear Edwards once hired someone who swears.

So we're all bloodless now, and along comes a reason for us to get flushed and excited, for us to stand up and wave our arms and shout and cheer. Along comes the passion we feel we've been missing in American life and in politics, and we throw ourselves at it like prom dates two minutes to midnight. Can you blame us? It's not just Obama, or just blogs, where I find the thundering power and might of the righteous voice these days.


And this paragraph is the perfect end to this rant about the cult thing.

It's not just one candidate over another. It's that for too long we've been told to sit down and shut up and that it's rude to give a damn, and that isn't living, that isn't life, that's not even death, not even that honest. That's slow suffocation by superiority, that's what that is.


I love that phrase. It puts no blame, it just comes out and says it. It is the "slow suffocation by superiority."

So it is my second term as a "cultist". So be it.


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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. All these years, you've been very consistently posting facts. You are a peach!
thanks for all the info about Dean, the DNC and the MI/FL fiasco.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. Nice post, madfloridian. Labeling people who are interested in an issue or a candidate
Edited on Fri Feb-22-08 11:14 PM by John Q. Citizen
with a broad brush derogatory term is a despicable tactic. It generally occurs when the opponents of that issue or candidate become afraid they are about to lose control of an issue or an election.

Interested in a clean quality environment?
You are a "Treehugger!"

Prefer Obama over Clinton? You are part of a "cult."

Concerned that the 9/11 commision was a white wash?
You are a "Conspiracy theorist"

Don't like Nixon's criminal conspiracy? You are an "effete snob."

And the list goes on of different ways to attempt to marginalize those you fear or disagree with.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
16. I agree about when it is used.
When there are worries. It is such a cheap shot.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. Dean showed passion to a crowd, and it was over.
This paragraph resonated:

"So we're all bloodless now, and along comes a reason for us to get flushed and excited, for us to stand up and wave our arms and shout and cheer. Along comes the passion we feel we've been missing in American life and in politics, and we throw ourselves at it like prom dates two minutes to midnight. Can you blame us? It's not just Obama, or just blogs, where I find the thundering power and might of the righteous voice these days."

Obama is more measured, but they can still go after his supporters.

Fear of passion. Speaking in a bipartisan way is the only way. All the dead soldiers, all the dead Iraqis, shhh...let's not be too passionate.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
53. Dean's second life is even more honorable. He's saving our party
from ourselves. Love that man, love how he stands up against the heat of the cliques and makes it better.
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. bless you....n/t
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. Always looking for your posts, and I love what you write!
Keep up the good work. I've been with you since 2002, believe it or not!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Thanks, Hawkeye...and that blogger needs kudos.
I just discovered it...and it really hit home with me.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. I work Thursday nights at
our co-op where my friend and I, who hold down the fort, are on the same page politically..I can tell him anything and he's interested. Last cycle he was a Kucinich supporter and then Kerry and this time around he's for Obama. I told him last night about us being called "cultists" because we were for Obama and he just gave me this most incredulous look.:o

My sister who's a teacher here in New York would be surprised to know she's a member of a "cult"..so would my friend, Annie in California, who just emailed me that she had voted for Obama. My son would laugh ..actually he will laugh 'cause I'm gonna tell him he's an Obama "cultist" out there in Hawai'i where he voted in his first election because he sees how bad it's gotten over the last 8 years and he definetly wants some good ol' change. Tim has always seen through hilary just by listening to her as she talks on tv..some people are perceptive that way.

And, as with Dean, we will continue to build our infrastructure and do the work required to persevere while others waste their time mocking something they don't understand.:o
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Infrastructure and on the ground work is the secret.
And so many don't realize it is going on. :hi:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Obamamanians sure
whipped past hilaryland on the ground work. :hi:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
37. I lost much respect for Krugman when he used the word "cult"
against Obama. It was like as Yogi Berra said...deja vu all over again. Reliving the last primary.

"I won’t try for fake evenhandedness here: most of the venom I see is coming from supporters of Mr. Obama, who want their hero or nobody. I’m not the first to point out that the Obama campaign seems dangerously close to becoming a cult of personality. We’ve already had that from the Bush administration — remember Operation Flight Suit? We really don’t want to go there again."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/11/opinion/11krugman.html?_r=3&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. That really bothered me as well.
Edited on Sat Feb-23-08 01:14 PM by D23MIURG23
Ive always thought highly of Krugman, but he used some really ugly and petty rhetoric against Obama. That column you linked to was around the time I decided to take a break from reading him.

Its sad; I think the only real effect this attack line had was to make him look less professional.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Way less professional..
And I'm sure we're not the only ones who've noticed.
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dicknbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #42
57. Remove the Obamanable hater Krugman follow the directive with extreme prejudice we must be..
United in all of our hopfulness We must be the hope of the hopeful for it is in hope that we are abel to be hopfull for hopfulness isall about being hopeful!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #57
63. I would alert, but it would do no good.
.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. I have no idea what happened to paul
krugman but I hope he doesn't suffer too much in an Obamanan admin.
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dicknbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #37
55. Is it Scientology or is it Obamanable...you decide
Here is what happens if you cross the Obamanable Cult Freaks


"But Smiley's criticism(of Obamanable) has also prompted many people to come to Obama's defense. The talk show host told The Washington Post he has been inundated with angry e-mails and even death threats.

"I have family in Indianapolis. They are harassing my momma, harassing my brother. It's getting to be crazy," Smiley told the newspaper.

Wow is that kind and inclusive or what...

Get behind the Obamanable or we kill you.....
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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #55
67. You know someone tried to shoot regan to impress Jodi Foster?
Does that make Foster a cult leader, and everyone who thinks "Silence of the Lambs" is a great movie a "Cult Freak"?
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guyanakoolaid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Yes - incredulous looks ftw
Once we all learn the incredulous look, none of their name-calling will matter. You could always reverse strategies and use their own form of attack, i.e. just call them the cultists, and probably have far more ammo in your defense. But then it comes down to the fact that they don't care what you think of them, they just want the power and the win, so what you say will really have zero effect upon them, whereas a more community-minded progressive is likely to take the time to wonder if indeed what they are doing is cultish, or why the other side uses these words, or anything far more complex than the simple solution your friend found: the incredulous look. And maybe just some good old-fashioned public scorn (what bad manners should call for).
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
7. Sister Deaniac!
:patriot::applause:

Indeed, this cycle has some very recognizable themes. ;)
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dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. I'm looking forward to Dean and Obama working together
They are going to bring a resurgence to the Democratic party. Obama's appeal and Dean's 50-state strategy, along with their combined organizational efforts will bring huge gains in 2008.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. Damn skippy!
It's why Obama is winning.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. This is Gold, thanks so much for panning it. K&R!!!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
10.  "slow suffocation by superiority."...example...a comment at that blog.
Edited on Fri Feb-22-08 11:30 PM by madfloridian
It sounds just like that...someone superior telling a passionate person their passion could be dangerous...just like Atrios said.

"your passion is admirable and your concern is laudable.

But seriously, there has developed, in the Obama campaign, a kind of intolerance of any suggestion that this candidate is anything other than The Perfect One. It's not the campaign's top management, and as lambert strether of corrente has noted, the top guys are trying hard to reign it in. But it's there, and it's every bit as creepy and offputting -- and every bit as undemocratic -- as the very careful vetting of Chimpy's crowds for his 2004 campaign appearances. It's a "cult of personality" and it's just as bad when it's built around a Dem as it was when it was built around W. It's dangerous, Athenae. That's what Atrios -- and all the other bloggers who don't believe the sun rises and sets in the O of that "morning in America again" campaign logo -- tried to point out."

I think Atrios and Josh Marshall and all the big bloggers said the same about us in 2004.

Look out, all you dangerous Obama supporters. You could harm our country...
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-22-08 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R from a fellow second-termer!
:hi:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. Sure got bad, didn't it?
:hi:
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RazBerryBeret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
14. That Sound....
is the sound of clapping! very well said. thank you!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. Thank you.
That blogger gets it.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
20. Proud Cultist
Here.
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dicknbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
56. Well here go get that creep Tavis Smiley since you are a pure Obamanable now
"But Smiley's criticism(Of Obamanable) has also prompted many people to come to Obama's defense. The talk show host told The Washington Post he has been inundated with angry e-mails and even death threats.

"I have family in Indianapolis. They are harassing my momma, harassing my brother. It's getting to be crazy," Smiley told the newspaper.

Follow your orders remove the oposer with esxtreme prejusdice...follow follow follow! KIL KIL KIL.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #56
64. Fuck you.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
21. madfloridian, you are so rocking my world with this shit you do not know!
:loveya: :yourock: :woohoo:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. What a nice compliment. Cult should never be used against each other.
It infuriates me.
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 02:41 AM
Response to Original message
24. A great post
thank you.

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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 02:49 AM
Response to Original message
25. People who moan about "cultists" are the Spent Generation.
Let me explain.

The Spent Generation are those from the 60s and 70s who are getting on in years and feel that the best parts of those times have passed them by, that all of the devil-may-care abandon by their generation which forged a revolution in society never actually benefitted them for long. They feel that we need to set things right by supporting a calculated, entrenched, old guard Democrat with a sense of entitlement is the best way to go. Their own idealism, their hope, their sense of wonder and passion for a brave new world are long gone feelings; and hence, they should be long gone or irrelevent for everyone else. Young people reinvigorated in the political process are to be disdained as whippersnappers unschooled in the realities of the political world, and should just shut the fuck up and stand in line to vote for their entitlement candidate.

Any passion or drive for a new face, a new way of being, is denounced as naive cultishness.

What a drag. The Spent Generation are, ironically, the very people they said they distrusted before they were 30. That is why they hate Obama and his supporters. In them they see who they could have been.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. Spare us the vacuous psycho babble
It's insulting, both to reasonable and educated people's intelligence- and to those who've worked in the trenches fighting the far right since before you were in diapers

Here's a clue: the reasons SO MANY commentators both in the states AND abroad have independently come around to view the campaign as cultish is because the behavior and the processes fit the fucking profile....

Simple as that.

If you were capapble to step back and look at what goes on objectively and analytically (and if you had enough experience to have observed these sorts of dynamics before) then you might have some idea of why people think that way, and wouldn't have to cast aspersions.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #30
36. Ah, now you are very clear. "working in the trenches"...you really want to go there?
Working in the trenches...that term the way you are using it is most misleading.

"It's insulting, both to reasonable and educated people's intelligence- and to those who've worked in the trenches fighting the far right since before you were in diapers."

You know no one's ages here. Stop with the insults.

"Here's a clue: the reasons SO MANY commentators both in the states AND abroad have independently come around to view the campaign as cultish is because the behavior and the processes fit the fucking profile...."

I so disagree. I think it is an attack method that is totally dispicable...and it is used by the establishment to keep the "masses" silent.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #30
69. Bravo. There are too many instances of blind support and absolutely nutty
Edited on Sat Feb-23-08 11:29 PM by barb162
comments like that of George Clooney:
"He walks into a room and you want to follow him somewhere, anywhere."

When a person says something this dumb, it makes you wonder if their bulb is on a dimmer.

I don't remember at any time when Dean was running, that his supporters, including me, were making such DUMB, blindly loyal comments.

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mindfulNJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #25
51. Please don't paint us
oldsters (I'm 47) with such a broad brush. I find your "Spent Generation" label a tad insulting.

I'm an Obama supporter btw.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #51
78. I kind of like the fire and everything........
At 49 i don't know if want to except the blame for everything but that thing about being the "Spent Generation" is kind of catchy. I could see it several ways and remember them same kind of platitudes when i young. Yet no matter how we want to slice it eventually we ALL will become one of those people pushing up daisies and all the while saying "we told you so" :shrug:

When I was young
http://www.mp3lyrics.org/a/animals/when-i-was-young/
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dicknbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #25
59. You are authorized to go after Tavis Smiley with extreme prejudice..you are a follower of
THE LORD OBAMANABLE! He receives your brain with hopfulness and affection for he is the LORD OBAMANABLE LORD OF HOPE!

Follow the driective and silence the hatred of the heathen Tavis Smiley for he has sinned and deserves his punishment:

But Smiley's criticism(OF Obamanable) has also prompted many people to come to Obama's defense. The talk show host told The Washington Post he has been inundated with angry e-mails and even death threats.

"I have family in Indianapolis. They are harassing my momma, harassing my brother. It's getting to be crazy," Smiley told the newspaper.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 04:15 AM
Response to Original message
26. You are a stronger person than I
the only reason I am posting anything here in GDP is because I'm responding to your well thought out tome from your journal. Kuddos.

Otherwise, I have quarantined you fine folks. I know some of the people who post here were once great DUers and will be again. but right now, many, if not most, are ill and certainly infectious. I look forward to welcoming people back when the primary virus subsides.
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
27. Perhaps the next person to use the "cult" meme should
be placed on "leave", as it's the "concern" that bothers me. The ONLY thing I can see that they're concerned about is to push their own agenda at whatever expense. It is a telling statement.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #27
54. Only if the next person to use the meme meme can get bounced.
It's the most overused--and wrongly used--word in the history of DU.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
28. I don't recall Dean or his supporters EVER being refered to as a cult or cult like
Edited on Sat Feb-23-08 06:03 AM by depakid
In fact, the campaign was substantive and very much policy driven -and what impressed me most about Dean (and his supporters) was his willingness to interact with supporters- to listen to ordinary people and even change his mind on occasion.

Those sorts of colloqueys whether online or in person- and what went on in meet-ups and such was exactly the opposite of what one see in cults. It was critical thinking, and there was response to feedback.

A VERY different dynamic in many, many ways than what I've observed with Obama's campaign.

Interesting, I recall something Matcom's dad said at the time- it stuck with me, because it was so true: "the movement made Dean."

Not the other way around.
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Melinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. Allow me to help you out (keep in mind the archives don't preceed 2005)
Edited on Sat Feb-23-08 06:49 AM by Melinda
Here is a Dean "cult" thread for you, and there were/are countless others:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3035654

Search is our friend.

Enjoy.

*edited to add that I've heard spell check is our friend as well, lol. ;)
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Well, I was very active in 2003 and 04- and I don't recall any
Nor did I ever hear a commentator in the states or abroad refer to or imply that the Dean campaign was cultish- much less provide reasoned analysis of why they thought so.

I sure have this year, though- from multiple sources, in the States, in Australia and in Britain. Sometimes just from ordinary folks, talking with me about American politics.

The campaign might want to think about, I reckon.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. What campaign should think about what? Having passion?
Being enthusiastic. Not sure of your point, but a simple search on dean and cult, or any choice of words...will prove me right.

It should not have happened then, and it should not be happening to Obama now.

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Melinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #33
49. The OP refers to the term being broadly used on DU, not by the media...
and used frequently to negatively connote those of us who at DU supported Howard Dean for President then, and those who support BO now.

And I believe, although I could be wrong, that's the OP's point.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
29. Pssst...some thundering excellence from Chairman Dean here...
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Guava Jelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
32. This is my first cycle as a cult member
And this is a nice thread..Thank you.
And honestly I don't give a fuck if change is xeroxed.
I find if someone has a better idea what is wrong with emulating it.
People should really spend more time telling me WHY I should vote for their candidate instead of telling me what a low life bag of shit my choice is.
It is getting old..

So I guess I am a cult member so I say bring on the Kool-aide Oh Yeaah!
(I know i sort of strayed off topic here)
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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
35. Can we give a cheer for cultists?
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
38. The word cult derives
from the Latin word cultus.
Cultus means 'to grow'.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Many meanings and another derivation. It is not being meant in a good way at all.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cult

–noun 1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7. the members of such a religion or sect.
8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
–adjective 9. of or pertaining to a cult.
10. of, for, or attracting a small group of devotees: a cult movie.

Origin: 1610–20; L cultus habitation, tilling, refinement, worship, equiv. to cul-, var. s. of colere to inhabit, till, worship + -tus suffix of v. action
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #39
47. I think Howard Dean
has done a good job of cultivating a grassroots movement geared towards taking back our goverment.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. We do agree on that.
:hi:
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
40. You're a regular Jim Jones follower, aren't you?
Pass the koolaid, please?

:hi:

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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
41. Pure Genius.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
43. Isn't it interesting how choosing one corporatist candidate over another...
...equally corporatist candidate can get you labeled as a cultist? With all but two very mainstream Dems having dropped out of the race, the words "cult" and "fringe" have no place in any rational discourse.
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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Its meaningless really.
Camp Clinton is just throwing anything at Obama they can get their hands on at this point.

I find it ironic that this is comming from them, because it seems to me that they had an excited following the year they knocked H.W. off. I remember some republican relatives grumbling about how Clinton was "all style" and the masses would "crown him king".
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
50. "slow suffocation by superiority"...what the DLC said about us in May 2003
Here are 3 paragraphs that should never be forgotten. They are from a DLC memo sent out in May 2003 and directed toward the Dean campaign.

http://www.ndol.org/print.cfm?contentid=251690

Not only is the activist wing out of line with Democratic tradition, but it is badly out of touch with the Democratic rank-and-file. In 1996, a survey by the Washington Post compared the views of delegates to the Democratic convention to those of registered Democratic voters. The delegates perfectly mirrored the Democratic electorate in terms of race, ethnicity, and gender. But they could not have been more different when it came to class and education. Democratic delegates were nearly five times more likely than Democratic rank-and-file to have incomes over $75,000, three times more likely to have a college degree, and over four times more likely to have done postgraduate work. No wonder that when the New Yorker recently asked Karl Rove to describe the Democratic base, he said, "somebody with a doctorate."

On most of the issues in the 1996 Post survey, Democratic activists and rank-and-file might as well have come from different parties. On every social and economic issue, registered Democrats' views were closer to those of all registered voters than to those of Democratic delegates. Almost two-thirds of Democratic delegates wanted to cut defense spending; most registered Democrats did not. A majority of Democratic delegates opposed a five-year time limit for welfare benefits; two-thirds of registered Democrats supported it. Democratic delegates were split on the death penalty; registered Democrats favored it by more than a 2-1 margin. These weren't delegates to the Green Party convention; they were delegates committed to re-electing Bill Clinton, who had sided with rank-and-file Democrats on each of those issues!

Clinton understood what too many others are prone to forget: most Democrats are doers, not ideologues. They don't vote to make a statement; they vote in hopes of getting things done. They want social progress, but they're not on a social crusade. Most Democrats aren't elitists who think they know better than everyone else; they are everyone else. They don't swoon when they hear a candidate say it's time for Democrats to dream again. What they want is the American Dream, where everybody who works hard and plays by the rules has the chance to get ahead.


Do you see the bold part in the last paragraph? That was the part that was bolded in the memo...not by me.

Liberal Oasis covered this memo thoroughly at the time.

http://www.liberaloasis.com/archives/051103.htm

The DLC memo is titled "The Real Soul of the Democratic Party."

But it should be "Kneecapping Howard Dean."

However, it is so ludicrously ham-handed, Dean trumpeted it himself on his campaign web site. (A smart rapid response that bodes well for the future.)

If the memo was a principled argument over what the party should stand for, that would be fine. You can have honorable disagreements within one's party. But the memo is nothing but a string of half-truths and contradictions designed to ward off insiders from backing Dean, while at the same time undermine Dean's support from the Left.

In fact, before the memo rips Dean as a leader of the "out-of-touch" "activist wing," it goes right at Dean's current base of liberal support


And some of the "fringe activist" stuff.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/62

We need to stop this stuff against each other. Too many of our good Democrats have suffered because of stuff like this that just doesn't hold water at all.

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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
52. K&R. (nt)
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dicknbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
58. Tavis Smiley Must be removed with Extreme Prejudice for he has insulted the Lord :
Obamanable. He has smeared and take the Lord Obamanables name in vain. He has not given honor where honor is due....Tavis smiley has not been...HOPEFULL he must be smitten.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #58
62. I ignored your post above....this one is unreal.
It's really sad here now how just anything goes.

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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #62
70. Don't be sad, these are just illustrations of how stupid the cult meme is.
Edited on Sat Feb-23-08 11:27 PM by D23MIURG23
My experience gives me a pretty good idea of how cults work and Obama's campaign looks nothing like one. Here is a pretty good article on thought control techniques utilized by cults (http://www.factnet.org/Thought_Reform_Exists.htm) for comparison.

I know we all know that the rhetoric (and prattle as is the case above) is way overblown, but I thought this little reality check might be interesting.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Thanks, I will check that out.
:hi:
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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #71
75. No problem.
:hi:
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
60. Great Post
nt
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Liberal Dose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
61. Thanks for the great post! I'm still a Deaniac, and at 45 I certainly can't be considered young and
impressionable :)

I have even seen posts here at DU directly comparing Obama supporters with Dean supporters. So be it. Personally, I wish John Edwards could've gotten more attention, but I can't argue with or put down enthusiasm.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #61
73. Gotta put down that enthusiasm. TPTB seem to fear it.
I think most Deaniacs were over 40, and I am well over that. :evilgrin:

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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
65. 2004 was insaner.. had several populist "cults" struggling for "cult" dominance.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
66. I remember the angry, hateful words thrown
at those of us supporting Howard Dean. We were all crazy for supporting a 'dangerous man like Howard. Well, like the blog you quote, I didn't give a rat's ass what anyone said or wrote. CA's primary was waaaay past his suspending his campaign but I voted for him anyway. I went to LA to lobby for his chairmanship of the DNC. I have never regretted one thing Dean encouraged us to do.

Here in the heart of conservative publicanism, the OC, we are taking back our school boards, our water districts, college districts and city councils by electing progressive candidates. I attended a Regional Director's breakfast meeting this morning. Most of the new candidates as well as most of the room were/are people I met through Dean's campaign.

We are taking back our county party (a former Deaniac is now the Executive Director of the county party) and we are damn close to taking back our state party.

If it's cool to sit down & shut up, the Deaniacs didn't get the message. Guess all that 'angry Dean shouting' drowned it out.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
68. I didn't see anything cult-like about Dean's supporters.
But what's happening with Obama and some Obama supporters is cult-like. Fainting at his rallies, chanting, evangelical type speechifying by Obama, etc.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #68
72. I really do disagree with you.
I think it is enthusiasm in a country that has had little to be happy about for years.

I hate the use of that concept...it is meant to paint supporters as less intelligent.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
74. Apparently that is the tactic now. Ridicule the supporters
That's a shame. It will backfire.

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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
76. Kick
:kick:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
77. Gov. Strickland tries the "slow suffocation by superiority"
Very disappointed in him.

Strickland says some Obama supporters think with their hearts,not their heads.

"Yesterday, though, it was impossible to miss you standing behind Senator Clinton and nodding as she delivered her "shame on you" tirade. This morning, I was disheartened to read your remark about Obama supporters “following their heart without engaging their head in the process.” Yes, I know you said some Obama supporters, but you're playing into stereotypes, which I hope you don't really believe. Please be careful. Once you've said something, you can't really unsay it, you know?"

And there is more.

Strickland compares Obama to American Idol

"Gov. Ted Strickland says Democrat Barack Obama is "hugely talented" and an "exceptional person." But Ohioans should vote for Democrat Hillary Clinton because the March 4 primary is not about selecting the "next American idol," Strickland told reporters in Washington today, where he is attending the National Governors Association winter meeting."


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Medusa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
79. Kick!
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