If Clinton Wins Because Her Crew Forces MI & FL Votes To Count...

[MannyGoldstein]

Poll question: If Clinton Wins Because Her Crew Forces MI & FL Votes To Count...

Suppose that Obama wins in pledged and super delegates not counting MI & FL. However, despite Clinton's earlier vow to take her name off of those ballots because they've been removed from the process, her crew forces the DNC to count those votes. How would that affect you in the general election?

[mkultra]

1. i dont vote republican

because of this kind of crap. Its no wonder bill banged someone else.

[JVS]

14. zing!

[Uben]

2. They didn't vow to take their names off the ballots

They vowed not to campaign in MI and Fla, which none did. Obama chose to remove his name from the MI ballot. Might be a tragic error on his part.

[bushisdirt]

9. Honesty and Integrity are just not real precepts with you, right?

[bellasgrams]

22. She did not agree to remove her name. Not everyone did

remove their names. Obama chose to remove his. He also chose to run TV ads after he agreed to no campaigning. Don't try to pull Hillary down to his level of deceit and dirty politics.

[gulliver]

40. That's right. I think Manny is saying the "thing that is not."

If he or someone else can't provide a link showing Hillary "vowed to take her name off the ballots," then it is incumbent on him to admit his mistake, IMO. My understanding is the same as yours. Hillary pledged not to campaign. There was no pledge to take names off of ballots or (as I have seen elsewhere) not to call for the delegates to be seated.

[mkultra]

41. they signed a written vow

To support the unseating of the delegates. they all did, EVEN Hillary. its fact. check it out on the internets.

[tekisui]

3. The net gain for Hillary would only be about 100 delegates.

That is not counting that 55 delegates are uncommitted in MI and could go to Obama. Right now, we still have 30% of the country to vote, and Obama is up 76 delegates. Seating MI and FL in anyway will not tip it to Hillary.

They will either split them evenly or base it on the national percentage. Even if they were to do it the most unfair way, as it stands, it won't be enough.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Mightn't That Depend On The Superdelegates?

If they tend towards Clinton, then it might, no?

[tekisui]

8. I honestly believe the superdelegates will, at the convention, go with

the candidate that has the most Pledged delegates. We've already seen eight move towards Obama (either dropping Clinton, or moving to Obama) in the past week. They will move with the leader, all the way to the Convention.

Their interest is in the Democratic Party. They know what would happen should they decide to usurp the voters.

[tekisui]

15. I just crunched some numbers.

If Obama wins 60% of the Pledged delegates from here on out, Clinton would have to get EVERY single Superdelegate left to win the Nomination.

[onehandle]

4. I vote Democrat. No more right-wingers on the Supreme Court. nt

[Sarah Ibarruri]

5. Why would Dean do this to people he told their votes wouldn't count to?

One friend of mine did NOT show up to vote BECAUSE DEAN told everyone our votes would not count. What the F is this that now they will? I cannot believe this crap.

[formernaderite]

20. exactly why it's unfair to count them now

there were prob plenty of people who didn't vote out of protest

[bellasgrams]

23. That was their choice if they chose not to vote. I have 5 family

members in FL and they all voted knowing that their votes 'might' not count. BO told them if he won he would see that their delagates counted, since he didn't win then he wants to ignore them. Just like they will ignore him in the GE if he gets it.

[formernaderite]

29. Obama had nothing to say about this

either way. The system has to be fair that's all. These states were told what would happen...do you want to see outright mutiny in the future?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

25. Lots of Dems didn't vote in Florida, not even out of protest, but because we were told by the DNC

that our votes would NOT COUNT, that our delegates were NOT going to be seated. Now they're going to change it? It's shit.

[Alhena]

7. I'll vote for Nader if this happens ...

not because I support Nader, but if Nader gets a huge protest vote that will let the Democratic party know that stealing votes isn't such a good idea after all.

Having said that, I am very confident that the superdelegates will side with Obama at the end of the day- they can read the general election polls just like we can and they know what kind of scene will await them in Denver if they try to override the votes of the people.

[vi5]

10. I'll be "that guy" I've hated for years....

It's not a matter of taking my ball and going home. If Hillary is the nominee fair and sqaure (and by that I mean even if she wins with superdelegates who go against the votes of their districts/states, even if I think that move is bordering on shady) then I'll vote for her in the GE. I may not agree with the system with regard to superdelegates and all that but it is what it is and if she wins through those means then I can't complain.

However if she wins through seating delegates from 2 states that they all agreed to not campaign in and that they all agreed beforehand would not be seated, ESPECIALLY because she kept her name on the ballot which to me screams that she was thinking about this in her back pocket the whole time.....if she wins that way without a new FLA and MI primary being held then I not only won't vote for her but I will actively work against her in the GE. If I'm banned from DU then fine. At this point I don't care. I can't abide by shady tactics that if a Republican did it I'd scream and yell about.

[MannyGoldstein]

11. Well Stated

Thank you.

[stevenleser]

24. Exactly what I have been saying. This is NOT OK. In every other scenario

if Clinton wins, I support her. And crass Clinton supporters who might respond by saying "We dont care who you vote for" you BETTER care, because the YOU that you are talking about isnt just me, Steven Leser, it is hundreds of thousands and perhaps millions that would be turned off by that move.

[Barack_America]

12. Other: Bub-bye Democratic party for me.

I will still vote however, and probably for Clinton (unless a more interesting Independent candidate comes along). But I'll give no money, no support, and have no interest in calling myself a "Democrat" when the party acts like the GOPv.2.

[tularetom]

13. I still believe that even Hillary is preferable to any republican

and I would hold my nose and vote for her. But my wife has been radicalized by the Clinton campaigns stupidity, bad management and negativity. If Hillary forces her way onto the ballot instead of bowing out with dignity, she is threatening to sit out the general election.

I suspect there are a lot more out there like her.

[Lerkfish]

16. HEY FOLKS: be careful how you vote for polls like this

I"m just sayin.

[Political Heretic]

30. Let me say it loud: if the democratic party chooses to allow SD to VETO the will of the people OR

chooses to change the rules midway on MI and FL after everyone agreed on what those rules would be to try and twist the will of the people to favor one candidate.....

.....then the Democratic party no longer represents me, it just represents itself. And I will not vote for the candidate of a party that treats me like I live in some sort of fascist country with rigged elections.

No need to search and see who voted what way and then ban them. I am not afraid to tell you I won't support any democratic candidate who wins by going against the will of the people, nor will I support a party who decides that's ok.

That's where I draw the line.

If Clinton wins because she won the most pledged delegates, chosen not as part of a backroom cabal but by the people - then I will vote for her in the general, just like I will Obama.

If this doesn't make me DU material, then fine.

[Lerkfish]

31. perhaps you misunderstood me

what I mean is, these types of polls allow the mods to know who voted how. And we have already seen people tombstoned based SOLELY on how they voted in a poll.
I'm just warning people to be careful, is all.

[Political Heretic]

33. I know what you meant. I'm putting my flag out.

[SPKrazy]

17. maybe some granite pizzas here?

Dems should vote for the Dem candidate

the MI and FL delegates being seated is not a conspiracy of Clinton

[rocktivity]

18. The DNC can't be forced to do anything

Dean is holding the cards, and the Clinton camp knows it--that's why they're making such a fuss.

:headbang:
rocknation

[stillcool]

19. I can't say what I will do...

I'm sure there would be consequences, but I have no idea in what form.

[MH1]

21. 3rd option should say, "it's awful but she's still better than McCain"

[rucky]

26. I'll vote for the Dem, but...

I'll de-register my party affiliation immediately.

[Vinca]

27. If this happens, the Democratic Party will have walked away from me.

The original agreement about not counting these states was stupid beyond belief, but that was the ruling. Voters stayed home because their votes wouldn't count. Independents didn't bother voting. The time to protest was months and months ago, not now. It's over. Either rerun the voting or follow the original ruling.

[TriMetFan]

28. Well there is a simple solution to all this mess

DR. Dean and the DNC have gotten the Democratic party into.

1. In MI, Hillary won 51 % of the vote and the right thing to do is to give her what ever the equal amount of the 51% of the delegates are and Obama should get the 40% of uncommitted as his vote even though Edwards supporters voted that way too, or they could have a caucus for that 40% and we all know that Obama does really great in a caucus. That would be way more then fair for Obama since no-body told him to take his name off the MI ballot. He can just say it was one of his "Bonehead moments." Now the rest should be given to Congressman Dennis J. Kucinich and ex-Senator Mike Gravel since I think people have forgotten that these two men also never took their names of the MI ballot.

2. FL should stand has it is. No-one but Kucinich went to FL and campaigned. Oh boy I forgot that Obama did run political ADs by going the back way, aka Cable TV. So the vote should stand the way the results came in.

[Thepricebreaker]

32. If Hillary pulls a stunt like that - Ill vote for congress and leave President empty... n/t

[Skip Intro]

34. I wonder if Dem voters in FL and MI will sit out the general if we tell them they are worthless now?

That might be the real question.

[bunnies]

36. They have only their state Dem parties to blame.

They knowingly and willingly gave up their delegates. Its not the DNCs fault.

edit: sp

[Skip Intro]

39. Will that be what we tell them in November? Will that get them to the polls then?

The DNC botched this. They should have cut the number of delegates from each state, maybe by half like the RNC did - the state is still represented, the voters voices still count. But instead we have this quagmire.

We tell 'em they don't matter to us now, they'll tell us to shove it when we come back begging for their votes in Nov.

It ain't rocket science.

[Alexander]

35. I'd still vote for her. But I won't spend time or money on such a corrupt campaign.

If that's how she wins, she's no better than the Republicans.

I'd vote for her reluctantly in that case, only to prevent more Scalitos from getting on the bench. My vote would be more anti-McCain than pro-Hillary, that's for sure.

[TexasObserver]

37. If that were to happen, most party elected officials running for reelection will have to scramble

I will predict that should that occur, most of the party activists will turn their attention exclusively to the non presidential races, all the down ballot races that will be in jeopardy. They will focus on trying to keep Senate and House seats, trying to gain new ones, and trying to stop the carnage in the down ballot state and county races which a Hillary candidacy will almost certainly assure.

When party regulars know the top of the ticket is trouble, they start filling the sandbags and preparing for the storms in local and state races, because they know it's coming.

It's not really about how Democrats vote on the top of the ticket, it's about how the failure of so many Dems to vote straight party ballots will kill us in those down ballot races. It will kill off an army of local commissioners, judges, representatives, state senators, etc.

[thoughtcrime1984]

38. Other

I will still vote Dem, but as has been said hundreds of times on DU, there is no way these votes should count. This would be about as wrong as it gets, and could literally rip the Democratic Party apart, thus ensuring Republican rule for years to come.