The clinton administration was no friend to the middle class

[Windy]

The ramifications of NAFTA took years to cultivate. People don't understand that. We have lost the manufacturing base of this country to china, india, etc., not to mention the tech sector. The tech bubble was the mechanism by which those much touted 20,000,000 jobs that were created under Clinton. Those went bye bye with the burst of the tech sector bubble and outsourcing.

The only jobs created in this country now are service sector and retail jobs. While there will always be a demand for medical profession positions, those aren't market dependent.

Clinton was no friend to the middle class.

People just don't look deep enough to realize this.

[neutron]

1. Oh Really? I just "thought" our Standard of Living was Better?

I was dreaming that my salary was 30% higher during the Clinton era?
I guess he didn't balance the budget either.

[Deja Q]

4. Clinton had his good points, but that 55MPH retraction shows how much he cares about

the environment...

[DiamondJay]

15. that is the honestly dumbest issue i have ever heard.

[Deja Q]

19. And your lack of a response is honestly the dumbest you've posted.

[elixir]

29. Well, that one fact sums up all of Clinton's initiatives. Nice job.

[ursi]

30. ...Clinton ...the proverbial grandstander ...outsourcing was underway when he was in office

[John Q. Citizen]

9. What do you do? Did NAFTA effect your salary for better or for worse?

[Donkeykick]

11. Tell it like it is!

:thumbsup: :headbang:

[pathansen]

51. She received an A for excellent on Middle Class Issues

on the Drum Major Institute's Congressional Scorecard.

SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Rodham_Clinton

[Donkeykick]

53. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Windy]

17. did you even grasp what I said? The EFFECT of Nafta took years

to take effect.


We are paying for it now! I live in Michigan. As an example we have two foreclosures on our street. There are only nine houses in total. The two that lost their houses worked with with second tier auto suppliers. One of their employers outsourced their engineering to India and that other employer closed up shop as the company was undercut by an overseas company. After going on unemployment and not being able to find another job, they lost their homes. My street is a microcosm of what is happening across the country as a result of NAFTA brought to us by Clinton.

Get a little education. You are obviously computer savvy. Google is your friend.

[pathansen]

54. Hillary had nothing to do with NAFTA - didn't agree with it.

[jasmine621]

45. Except that Hillary was against NAFTA from the beginning. Get a little

history on this subject.

[surfermaw]

46. And you couldn't be more right.

[Deja Q]

2. China and Mexico... India now has the IT jobs.

It is not about competition. And any candidate who claims it is... I don't think they are telling the truth.

The unemployment rates and talking with unemployment counselors is damning real-life proof that won't ever be said as part of anyone's campaign advert.

[neutron]

3. Clinton started a good thing. Bush Botched it.

[Deja Q]

6. Gee, nice post with well thought-out content.

:sarcasm:

And will Clinton finish it?

Revive it?

Make it so we can all be happy?


Come on, please say more than toilet paper scribble.

[UALRBSofL]

10. You might want to research the income

I forget the link but if you can, look up incomes of people during Clinton's administration as compared to Bush's administration. Income was up under Clinton but dropped under Bush43.

[Deja Q]

18. Well, if Bush can be accused of tinfoil hat theories, why can't Clinton?

:7

Hell, some people think the dismantling of America's middle class was thought of 35 years ago. Some of Clinton's plans don't exactly reflect a reversal of such tinfoil.

Maybe they weren't ready to let the ball drop just yet?

:tinfoilhat:

[Windy]

20. tech bubble burst, nafta came to fruition and people began to lose their jobs.

Its not rocketscience. The information is out there and its clear.

[Trajan]

33. I have an idea ....

Instead of asserting this notion as a strict anecdote, which is what you have done: presented your thesis without ANY foundational data to support your contention ...

Instead of railing against your fellow DUers and severely castigating them, to the point of sarcastic insult ....

Instead of trying to shove polemical shards of glass under the fingernails of your friends here at DU ...

Instead of all that: Why dont YOU provide the data to back up your contentions ?

WHERE is the hard data ? .... The employment numbers ? .... The income data ? .... The data from those years : WHERE IS IT ?

You come here, spouting off a claim .... trying to smack down ANYONE who had a different experience than you, (of which there appear to be MANY, including me) ... ALL without providing ONE SHRED OF EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE ....

All you have for your fellow DUers is your boisterous claim, and the back of you hand ....

Show the documented evidence that directly supports your contention, or really : All you are is a hot air bag, with fists ....

[Orsino]

39. NAFTA may have increased average wages...

...depending upon which numbers one juggles, but it helped to widen income disparity. It's been one of the greatest boons to the neocons.

[NC_Nurse]

5. They also deregulated telecom which caused

the whole telecom bust in the end (just like the housing bust). Now all the companies are merging into monopolies again and
soon there won't be competition. They are trying their best to privatize the internet and control all communicaton.
Thanks, Clintons. :sarcasm:

[Deja Q]

7. Tsk tsk. I thought he "reluctantly" signed all those things under the spirit of bipartisanship?

Which means, can Ms Clinton undo what hubby did?

Is their marriage really like Maria and Arnold's...?

[John Q. Citizen]

24. All I know is this, what each candidate chose to do with their life, Obama worked

for the Pirgs, did organizing on Chicagos South side, taught constitutional law and worked on civil rights law.

Clinton did speculative land deals and sat on boards of Walmart and other corporations.

For me, it's a no brainer.

[UALRBSofL]

41. You should really research Hillary's bios

Then you might gain more insight into what she has done.

[John Q. Citizen]

43. i know she has a few different bios out there. Which one do you recommend?

OK, I'm just being snarky, I admit.

I think my problem with Hill goes back to her health care plan of 1993. I was working on health care reform, and Hill shut out all the union and community groups working for a plan that would be good for people. Instead she went with "managed care" which was truly a rotten plan for a number of reasons, primarily, it kept the insurance industry in control of our health care. It was anti-consumer choice. Her current plan isn't any better. Of course neither is Obama's. Have you read this piece by Vicente Navarro? Vicente Navarro was the sole advocate (the token) of single payer allowed onto Hillary's 500 member health care task force. He gives a very detailed analysis of why Hillary's plan failed. http://www.counterpunch.org/navarro11122007.html

Please read it and comment. It's very well written and it gives an insiders view of what took place.


I see Hillary as an elitist. I don't believe her explanation for her vote on the IWR. I think she knew, just like the rest of us, that bush planned to invade and occupy Iraq come hell or high water, and I believe she was solidly in favor of this for the same reasons bush was in favor of this. She wanted access to the oil, the water, and the basing of US troops.

If you have any links to Hill's bio, please post them as well, and if you read the article I linked to, I will read whatever bio of Hillary that you link to. That way we can both learn something and that's always a good thing.

[OzarkDem]

8. The middle class grew during Clinton's term in office

NAFTA was negotiated before Clinton took office. Congress enacted it during his term. He couldn't stop it, but could only propose changes to protect jobs and the environment.

When Bush II was elected, he ignored the regulations and we have the resulting catastrophe.

Hillary Clinton has stated she will change these trade agreements to protect US jobs.

[Deja Q]

12. Please give us a link!!!!!

Hillary Clinton has stated she will change these trade agreements to protect US jobs.

PLEASE! Something substantial. I know that, for GDP, that's an impossibility in of itself, but please! If she's said how, you bet I'll read it.

[OzarkDem]

23. Sorry, here ya go!

http://home.att.net/~jrhsc/jobwelldone.html

More Than 22 Million New Jobs. 22.2 million new jobs have been created since 1993, the most jobs ever created under a single Administration -- and more new jobs than Presidents Reagan and Bush created during their three terms. 92 percent (20 million) of the new jobs have been created in the private sector, the highest percentage in 50 years. Under President Clinton and Vice President Gore, the economy has added an average of 248,000 jobs per month, the highest under any President. This compares to 52,000 per month under President Bush and 167,000 per month under President Reagan.

Fastest and Longest Real Wage Growth in Over Three Decades. In the last 12 months, average hourly earnings have increased 3.8 percent -- faster than the rate of inflation. The United States has had five consecutive years of real wage growth -- the longest consecutive increase since the 1960s. Since 1993, real wages are up 6.5 percent, after declining 4.3 percent during the Reagan and Bush years.

Household Income Breaks $40,000 for First Time in History. Income for median households rose $1,072, or 2.7 percent, from $39,744 in 1998 to $40,816, marking an unprecedented fifth year of significant growth in income. In 1999, the median income of African American households increased from $25,911 in 1998 to $27,910 -- an increase of $1,999, or 7.7 percent, which is the largest one-year increase ever recorded. The income of the median Hispanic household, adjusted for inflation, increased from $28,956 in 1998 to $30,735 in 1999 -- an increase of $1,779, or 6.1 percent, which is the largest one-year increase ever recorded.

Unemployment is the Lowest in Over Three Decades. Unemployment is down from 7.5 percent in 1992 to 3.9 percent in September, the lowest in more than three decades. The unemployment rate has fallen for seven years in a row, and has remained below 5 percent for 37 months in a row -- over three full years. Unemployment for African-Americans fell to the lowest level ever recorded, and for Hispanics it remains at historic lows.

Lowest Poverty Rate Since 1979. In 1999, the poverty rate dropped from 12.7 percent to 11.8 percent, the lowest rate in two decades. Since President Clinton and Vice President Gore passed their Economic Plan in 1993, the poverty rate has declined from 15.1 percent in 1993 to 11.8 percent in 1999 - the largest six-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years (1964-1970). There are now 7 million fewer people in poverty than in 1993, and over 2.2 million, or over 30 percent, of this decline occurred during the past year.

Largest One-Year Drop in Child Poverty in More than Three Decades. Under President Clinton and Vice President Gore child poverty has dropped by 25.6 percent -- from 22.7 percent in 1993 to 16.9 percent in 1999. While this is still too high, it is the lowest child poverty rate since 1979 and includes the largest one-year decline since 1966, which occurred from 1998 to 1999. The African American child poverty rate has fallen 28.2 percent since 1993, and dropped from 36.7 percent in 1998 to 33.1 percent in 1999 -- the largest one-year drop in history and the lowest level on record (data collected since 1959). The Hispanic child poverty rate has fallen by 26 percent since 1993, and dropped from 25.6 percent in 1998 to 22.8 percent in 1999 -- the lowest level since 1979.

[Armstead]

25. Clinton pushed hard for NAFTA and Chine and other "free trade" scams

Clinton didn't passively get stuck with something bad from Bush 1. He actively supported NAFTA and aggressively pushed it through, over the objections of many labor Democrats.

Likewise with China MFN status.

Bill Clinton had every opportunity to at least TRY to steer us towards saner trade policies that were not so closed and top-end oriented. But he chose not to, because he basically has the same mindset as the GOP on those issues.

[pathansen]

52. The middle class certainly did much better economically and now its disappearing

[boston bean]

13. bull shit on you! nt

[beberocks]

14. The idea of NAFTA was a good one. The better the economy in Mexico

The fewer mexicans crossing the border illegally to get jobs here. NAFTA could have been a good thing for the US, but there were not enough safeguards in the trade agreement to protect US jobs.

[Deja Q]

Well spoken, thank you.

:thumbsup:

:pals:

[OzarkDem]

27. Agree, Bush abused NAFTA,

ignored regulations and restrictions, didn't enforce them.

NAFTA was a big experiment that, to be successful, needed someone to watch it, enforce regulations and keep it working in a way that didn't hurt US jobs.

Its screwed up now after Bush and needs to be gutted.

[John Q. Citizen]

31. Yes, we all know the george h w bush had a wondeful idea, and Clinton got it passed,

against majority opposition in his own party.

Why do you suppose there weren't enough safegaurds in the bill Clinton asked for and signed? Oopps?

[Armstead]

35. It was a flawesd idea at its core -- Just like all neoliberal free trade

While we focus on Mexico with NAFTA, it was also a huge issue in Canada, where many peopel were worried that Candad was going to lose its soul and sovergnty to the US.

Neoliberal free trade is based on the idea that domestic laws and cultures have to be subverted to some universal set of rules whose primary purpose is to protect "markets" and the global flow of capital.

That is a completely different goal than working out agreements individually with countries to promote trade without undermining domestic politics and cultures and the inetrests of the majority.

[kurth]

16. And Reagan was the Greatest President Ever

until Obama, that is.

[Windy]

21. this is not about Obama/Clinton Its about facts and intelligent discussion.

Is that possible here anymore?

[KittyWampus]

22. Who said Reagan was a great president, not Obama nor his supporters.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

26. NAFTA did not send jobs to China. It sent them to Mexico...

...but they probably would have gone anyway.

[Armstead]

37. and then MFN for China sent those jobs to China to undercut Mexico

[MH1]

28. And then there's this:

http://www.localforage.com/local_forage/2008/02/an-open-letter.html

Apparently they were no friend to folks who want to protect themselves, their kids, and the environment from poisonous "food", either.

[libertee]

32. hell, deep enough..I was in the middle class ten years ago..now I'm just thankful to pay the bills

[gulliver]

34. Wrong. Bush's implementation of NAFTA caused the problem.

Does anyone doubt a Clinton White House would have worked to make sure the job losses we are seeing under Bush would have been stemmed? The Clinton White House created jobs at historic levels. There is no way they would have been asleep at the switch while manufacturing jobs hemorrhaged as under Bush. Wouldn't have happened.

You can't blame Clinton for the way the Bush EPA has enforced laws enacted during the Clinton years. You can't blame Clinton for unenforced business regulations. And you can't blame Clinton for unenforced, labor-favoring trade laws. You have an enemy of labor in the White House now. What did you expect?

And remember, Bush got elected on a "vote for Snoopy cuz he makes you smile" platform.

[paulk]

36. could you explain how a trade agreement with Mexico and

Canada sent our jobs to India and China?

And your "tech bubble as responsible for the Clinton economy" is the same argument I've been hearing from the right wing for the last 12 years.

It's funny, under Reagan/Bush the only jobs being created were service sector and retail. Now it's the same exact thing under Bush the Younger. You don't think that maybe it was REPUBLICAN economic policy that caused this?

The only thing "deep" around here is the bullshit of trying to trash Bill Clinton's presidency. Attack your opponents strongest points, I guess. That was Karl Rove's strategy. You've learned your lessonss well.

[Armstead]

38. I'd suggest you look at the bigger picture

NAFTA isn't the only problem. It is a symptom of a more fundamental problem of the whole context of so-called "free trade" as it has been pursued since the Reagan years on through Clinton and Bush 2.

[paulk]

42. what's your solution, then?

Isolationism? Huge tariffs on imports?

The genie is out of the bottle, and the world gets smaller everyday. It's a global marketplace -

that's not going to change!

[Armstead]

47. Lot of answers...I haven;t time to get into it now

We have been sold a false choice between isolationism and no-holds-barred Darwinian globalization.

There is nothing wrong with protectionism. The US built its economy with its help.

yes it can go too far, but there is a balance that is possible. The current rules of trade were drawn up in secret by the elites for the elites.

There have been many alternative strategies offered over the years which would promote international trade without neutering political systems and domestic economies. But since there has been little opportunity for real input, they have been ignored.

[joeybee12]

40. 1 + 1 = 5; I love these kool-aid posts where everything is blamed on

NAFTA without anything to back it up. So, tell me why the so-called middle class are Hilary's strongest base of support?

[bigtree]

44. are you from the GOP? Only the GOP has this view.

we ALL know the statistics.

But, you go ahead . . . Windy's fair weather economics

[Armstead]

48. Bullshit. You are more right-wing than this view.

The narrow minded view that corporations can do no wrong, and we should encourage unfettered "free markets" over social policy is classic GOP economics.

If you want to disagree with the point of view of progressives, feel free. There's plenty of room for constructive debate.

But stop flinging around idiotic talking points that are totally contradictory to the truth.

[bvar22]

49. Not just BAD Trade Policies that sold out the Working Class,

but continued deregulation under Clinton of energy, banking, lending, and accounting lead DIRECTLY to Enron (and the other) scandals.

The Clinton administration (NeoLiberal/DLC) also is partly responsible for current mortgage and bankruptcy crisis.

[maq-az]

50. A little Myopic?

NAFTA wasn’t perfect but, by not enforcing the rules attached to the treaty by Bush made it a failure.