Did Hillary's non-apology for IWR just give the nomination to Obama?

[scheming daemons]

He came off Presidential.... and she stuttered and stammered her way through a NON-ANSWER on whether her vote was a mistake.

Wolf gave her a chance to apologize and take the IWR issue off the table.... and she absolutely blew it.


Obama won the debate in one 10-minute sequence.


...and it may have been the final straw in her campaign.

[jefferson_dem]

1. It should. He mealy-mouthed answers on Iraq alone should be a disqualifier.

[DemCam]

57. Again people...this is why she's strongest for the General Election

Republicans who hate McCain will vote for her BECAUSE of this vote.
I'm living with one of right now.

[Seen the light]

2. That will be played over and over between now and Tuesday

It's going to be beautiful.

[KennedyGuy]

3. he looked mean..

and condescending...
troubling.

[Kahuna]

7. Oo. Oo. He looked down his nose at Missy Hilly. What's up wid dat boy?

:eyes:

[KennedyGuy]

9. you saw it too?

[LittleClarkie]

13. Why would you find that troubling?

You don't support him.

Gleeful more like, if it were true.

But never mind the issues. It's how the candidate looked that's the real important thing.

[Blue-Jay]

31. I'd cross the street to avoid passing him.

:eyes:

He's soooo mean-looking.

[Triana]

32. He always looks like that..

...at Hillary.

I'm no a supporter of either of them so I've no preference either way. And I've - on a MULTITUDE of occasions - noticed Obama's snoodly sneers at Hillary - his expressions.

Maybe she does it too and I just miss it, dunno.

[LoZoccolo]

44. That's because she was still wearing the secret earpiece. n/t

[Yael]

4. I don't want another president who can't admit a mistake

[arewenotdemo]

12. Too much blood. Too many dead bodies.

For her to admit to the facts.

[rodeodance]

19. The only thing that will satisfy is if she gets down on her knews and begs forgiveness!!

[arewenotdemo]

25. Much too late for that.

[rodeodance]

28. thought so!!

[Avalux]

23. Hear Hear!

:applause:

[maximusveritas]

33. Exactly, it's too bad Edwards wasn't there to nail her on that

Worse yet, she actually tried to defend her vote by telling us Saddam was a megalomaniac and other garbage. That was a horrible moment.

[Yael]

48. ANd what was all the bragging about how "we bombed them for days" because

"we knew he had bad things".

SHe really sunk the battleship on that one.

[speedoo]

5. Possibly. It's a great weakness of hers.

Not that she has a lot of strengths, IMO.

But we will know a lot more Tuesday night.

[polichick]

6. That was her worst moment...

She was very strong at first, and he looked less substantial ~ but his Iraq speech is what we need against McCain.

[DiamondJay]

11. but there ARE other issues

on which she cleaned his clock. he has had some good one-liners, but she gives detail, and sounds much smoother in a debate setting, which will be very important against Mr. Double Talk McCain

[rodeodance]

22. Exactly

[aquart]

8. Could be.

The Senate Democrats shot themselves in the foot with that. It's too much to hope it will be a lesson for the future.

We TOLD them not to do it.

Obama, of course, is clean in this because he wasn't there. Had he been there, he expects us to believe he would have been a profile in courage like Feingold. But I am convinced he would have voted present or yes. Because that has been his pattern in difficult political decisions: to cover his ass.

[never_get_over_it]

39. Oh my god

THANK YOU for posting this I have posted this same thing a few times - and haven't really seen anyone else state this - I feel like I have found a kindred spirit

Here are my reasons:

I believe that the majority of Dems who voted yes had political ambitions and were advised to vote yes as in Clinton, Edwards, Kerry etc and I believe Obama is cut from the same cloth and would have done the same damn thing

He didn't even have the balls to vote one way or the other on Kyl LIEberman Iran amendment

He showed NO particular leadership on the Iraq occupation once he got to the Senate

and finally

he took his anti-war speech off his website when running for the Senate

I will never know for sure how he would have voted - but his actions speak louder than his words stating that he knows he wouldn't have voted for it - and my gut tells me he would have.

No credit for me that he didn't vote for IWR.....

Only two Presidential candidates that we KNOW voted No - Kucinich and Paul and Ron Paul was one of only 7 repunks in both the House and Senate to vote no - good on him for that - but man other than that he is bat crap crazy....

[New Dawn]

10. She will never apologize for that vote

Because she is not actually sorry for casting it.

[rodeodance]

Why should she apologize??? --

Because she is not actually sorry for casting it.

[Hill_YesWeWill]

35. I think she should apologize and I'm a supporter of hers!

I think she really regrets it, and would like to apologize, but she's already drawn the line in the sand, I'm not saying it's ok, but I think she wants to apologize

[rodeodance]

41. I agree, I think she does and she had drawn the line. and for her to go

over it makes her look weak in her mind (i can only speculate). and i think an apology at this point will only give the rw pundents more and fodder.

i think i was more mad at blitzer than anyone.

thank you for your post.

[MonkeyFunk]

14. No

they're giving the same answers they gave six months ago.

Nobody lost the election based on tonight's debate.

[scheming daemons]

15. Disagree....

.....lots of first time viewers just beginning to pay attention.


Her non-apology will be the spin after the debate.


I know she's your candidate, but that sequence killed her.

[MonkeyFunk]

34. sorry

if you think THAT will end a candidacy, welcome to politics. Neither candidate was hurt by tonight's debate.

[Jane Austin]

16. Wow, she really rambled around on that answer.

It made me uneasy.

[Dudley_DUright]

18. Agreed, it was by far her worst moment in an otherwise

very strong debate. I just don't understand why she did not long ago take the John Edwards position. I guess she thinks it is too late now, but it really hurts her in a potential match up with John "100 years" McCain.

[Bonobo]

17. A million people is a lot of blood.

Especially if you add 8 years of Iraqi sanctions that killed 500,000 children under 5.

Yup, that blood is on Clinton hands too.

[rodeodance]

29. ONce again--it was NOT a vote to go to war--get that straight

[arewenotdemo]

38. watch the video and then tell me she wasn't for the invasion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYATbsu2cP8

[SOS]

50. It was a vote to authorize the use of military force in Iraq

based only on the determination of George Bush.

[gulliver]

20. She was right, and the CNN real-time tracking was in...

...the 60 and 70's the whole time she gave the response. Believe it or not. Never dropped a bit.

[rodeodance]

21. You are very single minded if you think people only vote on the war-!!

Obama won the debate in one 10-minute sequence.

[ErnestoG]

27. Economy is first, and the war is second.

So I wouldnt play it down.

[Hill_YesWeWill]

36. Anyone who has lost a family member in Iraq just might do exactly that nt

[ErnestoG]

24. I hope so.

The war, and the US' horribly flawed foreign policy, is my main issue. Obama really wants to change it for the better, while Hillary comes off as too closely tied to the Defense industry and PNAC to do that.

[Joe the Revelator]

26. I think it may have

It was MUCH worse then the driver license answer that began to sink her debate to begin with. The war vote IS going to be a big issue, and Hillary just showed a weakness that the republican can exploit.

[Clintonite]

30. Obama is going to have to win this and not expect it to be given.

[elixir]

37. I think HRC was amazing and handled the question perfectly. BTW BO looked down his nose again!!!

I think HRC came off as very presidential and handled all questions extremely well. Her discussion on healthcare was spot on and her response re IWR was reasoned and realistic. I think she looked great.

Most importantly she took the debate to a new level by extending the proverbial 'olive branch' that shows unity w/ in the dem party.

[subsuelo]

40. She completely side-stepped the IWR question

The question was - why can't she admit it was a mistake, since she stated she would have voted differently knowing what she knows now. She had no answer whatsoever for that. Not coming across as either reasonable or realistic to me.

[elixir]

42. Because, at the time, it wasn't a mistake. If we all had 20/20 foresight we wouldn't be in Iraq...

Kerry voted for it, what do you think of him? Edwards voted for it, what do you think of him? I don't care that they apologized. Apologies don't bring back our dead.

An apology from HRC is not going to change your mind about her, you just want to say, she apologized - she was wrong.

[subsuelo]

47. Yes, it was a mistake at the time

It was just as much as mistake then as it is now. My point in this isn't to bash Hillary - my point is to argue that we need someone vs the Republicans that will have a stronger stance. And Hillary's stance on Iraq is much weaker than Obama's is.

[rodeodance]

51. nicely put and i agree with you.

[Occam Bandage]

43. I wish, but no.

[Tom Rinaldo]

45. With activists who place a strong focus on the IWR moment and

all it entails, yes. But Clinton's current position on Iraq came across as thoughtful and in line with what most Democrats want. For activists who care about issues like health care more than the literal IWR vote, Hillary did well. She showed herself to be a good Democrat and not at all the Bush-lite characture that some try to pin on her. In that way she helped herself.

[dailykoff]

49. BWAHAHA

When it's Hilly's vote, she's a "good Democrat," but Kerry was freaking Dr. Evil. You guys are so transparent.

[Tom Rinaldo]

52. You are talking to the wrong person. I supported Kerry for the nomination in 2004...

...after Clark pulled out, and I busted my ass trying to get him elected President. What the fuck is your agenda?

[dailykoff]

53. Sure you did.

[Tom Rinaldo]

56. You joined in December of 2005 and claim to know what I did in 2004 here?

I joined in 2003. My opinions since then have been public record at DU. Ask someone who was around them if you think I am a liar

[Exultant Democracy]

46. I think she lost the latino vote well before that, that key demo will shit the southwest and CA.

[loveangelc]

54. it should.

[suston96]

55. IWR means diddly to the average voter. Just to desperate Obamites herem DipKos and at TPM...

Try the Kazakhistan bullshit - that will give you some mileage.