???About Carville. Since he did that favor for WH in 2004, what do you think he

[blm]

expected in return? And I mean besides getting some loving attention from his comely bride?

We know the RNC was up to serious election fraud in the 2000, 2002 and 2004 elections - after all, that's what a big part of the US attorney firing story is about. BUT....Did they have any Dem insiders helping them? And what would be the payoff for the insider?


http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward

Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)

By M.J. Rosenberg

I just came across a troubling incident that Bob Woodward reports in his new book. Very troubling.
On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election.

Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

So what happened?

James Carville gets on the phone with his wife, Mary Matalin, who is at the White House with Bush.

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'

"Matalin went to Cheney to report...You better tell the President Cheney told her."

Matalin does, advising Bush that "somebody in authority needed to get in touch with J. Kenneth Blackwell, the Republican Secretary of State in Ohio who would be in charge of any challenge to the provisional votes." An SOS goes out to Blackwell.
>>>>>

Whaddya think he gets in return from BushInc?

[frogcycle]

1. I think Carville

is a slime whom I would not trust as far as I could throw a volkswagen.
He gives me the creeps, and I think he has no ethics or morals whatsoever.

But that's just my opinion based on casual observation on TV.

[angie_love]

3. slease~!

thats fuckin sleasy if thats true.

[Hutzpa]

27. James Carville and Steve McMahon

are the sleaze ball that the Democratic party can do without,
its about time for them to go on a very, very long vacation.

Thats my Opinion.




:grr: :grr: :grr: :spank: :spank:

[blm]

34. McMahon just seems ineffective more than sleazy.

Carville is pure fascist operative sleaze.

[Vanje]

2. Whaddo I think?

I think Carville is not our friend.

[Hutzpa]

28. He has never been the friend of the democratic

party, he has always been a spy. Gets withinb the inner circle
and spew over to reThuglicans, and my better instincts tells
me there are many more out there in that position.

Its a beeaaauuutiful day for Hunting.



:evilgrin: :evilgrin:

[MonkeyFunk]

4. Nobody ever answers these questions:

Carville wasn't part of the Kerry campaign - why was he told?
If Carville wasn't supposed to know, who told him?
Once Carville told Matalin - then what? What changed? How was anything different?
Did the White House NOT expect there would be a challenge?

This is half a story, told by Woodward alone. You have to fill in a whole lot of details to turn it into the smear against Carville that you think it is.

[blm]

6. DNC chair Terry McAuliffe likely told Carville, since Kerry camp didn't.

What changed was the 250,000 provisional ballots Ohio Dems THOUGHT they had got changed to 150,000 by Blackwell a couple hours after the phonecall. A simple MISTAKE in the earlier report, dontcha know.

[MonkeyFunk]

10. How do you know Kerry camp didn't?

Why would McAuliffe know?

There's a very thin skeleton of a story, that you have fill in with a WHOLE LOT of unproven facts, in order to twist this into a "Carville betrayed Kerry" story.

And nobody - not one single person - involved with this story has ever said one word about it in 4 years. Would NOBODY from the Kerry campaign say something about this, if it were true? No, all we have is Woodward's tale, and you guys then fill in a whole giant story around. IT's stupid.

[blm]

12. If it's just stupid why wouldn't Carville get a retraction? And McAuliffe WOULD have

known because DNC would have had to join the fight.

Why do YOU get exercised when this comes up, anyway, and deny it?

The noted historian Douglas Brinkley stated that TeamClinton was stabbing Kerry in the back throughout 2003 and early 2004, too, and he said so in April2004, long before Woodward's story came out.

Another thing - why would Woodward MAKE THIS UP?

And another thing - some of us actually RENTED the documentary Our Brand Is Crisis, MFunk. We understand a bit more than most about Carville's methods and agenda. Peddle your devotion to fascist wing of the party somewhere else - don't try doing it with me.

[MonkeyFunk]

14. Because Woodward's story can be 100% true

and it still doesn't mean what you think it means.

You're filling in a whole story around a couple basic facts. The basic facts by themselves aren't terribly suspicious.

YOU are providing all the details that turn it into a betrayal. Woodward didn't do that. You guys do.

[blm]

15. The details of the 250,000 turning into 150,000 happened and the timeline

of it happening was before the phonecall and AFTER the phonecall. You expect us to believe it was mere coincidence that Carville called WH about the provisional ballot challenge and the number of ballots dropping a couple hours later after Blackwell is called?

How dumb do you think people are?

[MonkeyFunk]

16. I think they're pretty dumb

if this actually happened the way you say it did and nobody, ever, from the Kerry campaign ever said a word about it.

I think they're pretty dumb if nobody asks WHY Carville was told this, when he wasn't a part of the campaign. Nowhere does anybody claim that Carville wasn't supposed to tell anybody. Nowhere does anybody say who told Carville. Nowhere does anybody say that Carville betrayed Kerry - except paranoid people on the internet. Nobody in real life has ever made that claim.

[blm]

18. You mean Carville had no idea passing information to Bush camp would be harmful?

That would also mean that Carville really believes Bush camp is just a bunch of partisan patriots who would never subvert a vote.

Carville also believed Scooter Libby was wrongly indicted.

Go rent Our Brand is Crisis. For all I know, based on your postings defending the fascist wing of the party, you could be working FOR the Carvilles in our party.

[redqueen]

21. Carville seems to do all he can to undermine this party.

I can't frickin stand that assclown.

[blm]

32. This party and the left of other countries, too. Rent: Our Brand is Crisis.

.

[Me.]

13. What About Shrum?

He and Carville are/were close. Or maybe no one as Carville had ties to the campaign.

Democracy Corps founders Robert Shrum, Stanley Greenberg, and James Carville

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0627/p24s03-usmb.html

“In an expansive conversation, Mr. Clinton, who is awaiting heart surgery, told Mr. Kerry that he should move away from talking about Vietnam, which had been the central theme of his candidacy, and focus instead on drawing contrasts with President Bush on job creation and health care policies, officials with knowledge of the conversation said.

The conversation and the recruitment of old Clinton hands came amid rising concern among Democrats about the state of Mr. Kerry's campaign and criticism that he had been too slow to respond to attacks on his military record or to engage Mr. Bush on domestic policy. Among the better-known former Clinton aides who are expected to play an increasingly prominent role are James Carville, Paul Begala and Stanley Greenberg, campaign aides said.”…

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/06/politics/campaign/06kerry.html

[blm]

31. I think Shrum is a halfway decent guy who has no idea the extent he gets used by this

bunch because he's been close with them so long. Like the nice geek who gets used as the distraction for the hoodlums. And he thinks they really want to hang out with him.

Or he's someone who used to be a decent guy who got coopted, maybe blackmailed....don't know.

[BeatleBoot]

7. Plus, Bob Woodward is a self-admitted Republican.

[blm]

9. Except Carville has never denied it happened. And Woodward's books are vetted by a team

of lawyers.

If you were Carville and this DIDN'T happen, would you sue or at least, issue a denial and get a retraction?

[Me.]

5. For That Very Reason You Would Think HC Would Keep Him At Arm's Length

Yet just last week CNN suspended him and Begala's roles as analysts because of their close ties to her campaign. Curious.

Another thought, did some DLCers really want * in for another term because he was more corporate inclined then Kerry? Is that why Carville betrayed his own party?

[blm]

8. Or corporate Democrats. Remember, Kerry uncovered more govt. corruption

than any lawmaker in modern history, and there were many powerful Democrats angry with him for exposing IranContra, BCCI and CIA drugrunning.

You think THEY wanted the books on all of it opened by an anti-corruption president?

ReCarville - ever see the documentary Our Brand is Crisis? They are experts in CREATING crisis as cover for their political maneuverings.

[Me.]

11. Agreed

And I will add another reason for not wanting Kerry, not wanting anyone who might shut off the gravy train lobbyists and subsidized corporations sup on. They didn't want anyone who rocks the boat then and I'm betting they don't want one now.

[Skwmom]

17. The Clintons gave this country four more years of Bush so

Hillary could run in 04. Carville is Clinton's puppet. Those two would do anything to gain political power, even subject this country to four more years of Bush.

[TexasObserver]

19. I lost all respect for James Carville years ago

But 2004 put a cork in that bottle, for sure.

Back when he still had hair and you could fit his ego into a normal sized room, he had some skills. Now he's a sad, old caricature of his former self. In a term, a sell-out.

[blm]

20. Rent the documentary OUR BRAND IS CRISIS and you'll realize it is not about

Carville losing skills, just directing those skills in a way that hurts democracy and benefits the powerful elite and their agenda.

[TexasObserver]

22. I don't know anyone who respects his opinion any more

He was fine until after the Clinton administration. He has no cred with Democrats any more. Like Tweedy, he's stayed around five years too long.

[blm]

25. Who sez he HASN'T been working all along to get this outcome of the last two

decades?

He IS working. The question is....who ALL does he work for?

[Hart2008]

23. Carville is the leading candidate for spreading rumors that Hart was a "womanizer" in '88.

Does the quote, purportedly from Newsweek, that Hart could have a problem in the campaign "if he can't keep his pants on," sound like Carville?


Carville had been laid off from Hart's '84 campaign, a protege of Hart media consultant and advisor, Ray Strothers, and working for Clinton.

Clinton had wanted to be Hart's V.P. in '88, but flunked the interview. Clinton hired Strothers after his successful work for Hart's '84 campaign. Strothers was now working for two men who wanted to be President. Strothers pushed Hart to interview Clinton to be his V.P. After the interview, Hart told Strothers that Clinton had "no core" and didn't "believe in anything". (Strothers wrote about this in his book, Falling Up.) Carville would repeat these lines, almost verbatim, but attribute them to Kenneth Starr.

Twenty years later, there still isn't a single woman who has come forward by name to allege she had a sexual relationship with Hart. (Donna Rice always denied her relationship with Hart was sexual, and never made a dime for herself from the notoriety.)

But twenty years later, a mystery still remains: Who was the self described "liberal Democrat" woman who kept calling the Miami Herald to goad them into following Donna Rice to D.C.?

Why hasn't that woman written a book?

Cui bono?

[blm]

26. Knowing what I know today, I can see this happening...easily.

I remember when Clinton sucked the LIFE out of the 88 Convention by rambling on in the most boring voice with the most boring speech in the history of conventions. And added an additional 15 minutes to that speech to do it.

[Hart2008]

29. Bill didn't give a speech. It was a filibuster. But the question remains...

Who was that female who called herself a "liberal Democrat" who kept calling the Miami Herald?

:think:

[blm]

30. It would have to be someone VERY close who needed Hart OUT of the race.

So my guess would be a longtime Clinton loyalist, or even Hillary herself, at the time. It would have had to come from someone in the innermost circle.

It would be interesting to see the phone records from back then, eh?

[Hart2008]

35. Funny, but you came to the same conclusion as someone who reviewed Ray Strothers's book.

http://hometown.aol.com/__121b_0afLNI7qbUQwMYpMM0GvravCWeXG2JfkJDi+7Hre1vo=

Now why haven't any MSM reporters thought to ask Hillary these kind of questions?

How if it had been the Republicans looking to smear the Dem's front runner, they would have waited until after the convention to use this smear.

This had to be someone inside the party...

Cui Bono?

[still_one]

24. In my view Carville is a crude vulgar person /nt

[blm]

33. And married to a war criminal - so that would be motivation, too.

I also just learned this link has been SCRUBBED since this thread was started.

[Hart2008]

36. Why hasn't the MSM asked Carville about his role in sabotaging Hart in '87?

Does the quote, purportedly from Newsweek, that Hart could have a problem in the campaign "if he can't keep his pants on," sound like Carville?

Why will no one in the MSM ask this so-called Democrat about his role in this?