****NCLB*****- Hillary would end it, Obama would fund it

[robbedvoter]

If you have kids in school- you know that lack of funding is hardly the only problem with this law that has a movement in the whole country against it - and a refysal from Bush to amend it.
If you have a kid who loves to learn, wou may be frustrated by the intrusion of test preps in the teaching time.
Even an alternative, progressive school like the one our kid goes to, who tries its best to minimize the effect of NCLB can only do so much.



"NCLB is a hand grenade thrown at public education" Wes Clark
It was one of the important reasons for my support for him

[meegbear]

1. Self-delete

misread OP.

[LostinVA]

2. Every teacher I know loathes it and wants it ended, not funded

It screws up their schools and proper teaching.

I have friends who are teachers, and Haruka's family is full of them.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

7. slightly more info then just the fund part

Reform No Child Left Behind: Obama will reform NCLB, which starts by funding the law. Obama believes teachers should not be forced to spend the academic year preparing students to fill in bubbles on standardized tests. He will improve the assessments used to track student progress to measure readiness for college and the workplace and improve student learning in a timely, individualized manner. Obama will also improve NCLB's accountability system so that we are supporting schools that need improvement, rather than punishing them.

[H2O Man]

11. Right.

I think the OP should be accurate on Senator Obama's position. It makes for a more meaningful discussion of the issues involved.

[rodeodance]

18. Obama's approach to fix the problems are like putting bandaids on a

hemorrhage. Won't help it. If you look closely, state by state and all the exemptions given, the changes made, ect. you find very little of the original intent--except to punish schools for some idealized test score.
And more importantly and horrible for the kids, kids are identified by test scores. There has always been this sort of tracking of kids but NCLB functions to make it worse.

Nothing meaningful nor original about Obama's approach--throwing more money at the same problems is not a fix--its more of the same!

[H2O Man]

22. A person can

disagree strongly with Senator Obama's position. No question about that. But for sake of honest discussion/debate, it is better to present what his position is.

I am not a supporter of NCLB.

[rodeodance]

24. yes, you are right. sorry, I missed the target of your critique.

[H2O Man]

26. No problem.

I think it is an important issue. I have two children in school, and have friends who teach. The quality of our classrooms should be a focus for us as a party.

[robbedvoter]

14. But that is NCLB - there's nothing else to it - but tests to justify punishing

teachers and schoops - public education really.

[UALRBSofL]

20. People in Florida

Don't care for it either. The teachers are against it as well.

[rucky]

49. That's the fix, right there! n/t

[robbedvoter]

13. Every parent I know does too - and most of the kids I know

In fact our kid just had a homework assignment: "what do you think of the upcoming test?
"I don't think much about it - or of it" my kid wrote. Of course, most other kids/patents are worried, spending time and money for tutoring. My kid, because we put things in perspective for her, just keeps reading books. For the love of it.
Other book loving kids - her friends, have been restricted - time-wise by their parents - the test ya know?

[harun]

23. Every teacher against it is exactly why I am for it (n/t)

[Egnever]

53. wow

I am not sure I get that reasoning.

[zabet]

3. NCLB should be ended.

I cannot believe as big
a failure as it has been,
that the 'candidate of change'
would fund it. :sarcasm:

[robbedvoter]

4. Maybe that's why one of its authors endorsed him too

[Bodhi BloodWave]

5. slightly more info then just the fund part

Reform No Child Left Behind: Obama will reform NCLB, which starts by funding the law. Obama believes teachers should not be forced to spend the academic year preparing students to fill in bubbles on standardized tests. He will improve the assessments used to track student progress to measure readiness for college and the workplace and improve student learning in a timely, individualized manner. Obama will also improve NCLB's accountability system so that we are supporting schools that need improvement, rather than punishing them.

[LostinVA]

16. It needs to be ended ASAP, period

[rodeodance]

12. change for OBAMA is more funding of the same.

[Coexist]

6. ....

http://usliberals.about.com/b/2007/05/09/reform-rewrite-or-junk-the-no-child-left-behind-act.htm

In her speech to the California Democratic Convention, Sen. Hillary Clinton clearly stated that she supports "fixing" NCLB in a way that "puts teaching in the center."

Sen. Barack Obama proclaimed that, as president, he plans to "recruit and support hundreds of thousands of new teachers across the country," and that the educational system needs to work with teachers, "not against them." Sen. Obama has been mum, though, about NCLB.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/09/13/obama-on-education-no-ch_n_64387.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsVimwm6xQ4

[newfie11]

15. Who's going to pay for those teachers

My daughter is a teacher in South Dakota. The lowest paid state for teachers.

[rodeodance]

8. NCLB is into punishment.

[rodeodance]

9. Kennedy wants more funding that has been his beef for years--

[BringEmOn]

30. Yes, NCLB is Teddy's baby.

[joeybee12]

37. Yeah, it was a big deal when he signed on to support this farce...

...then later he went on about how Bush renegged on the funding, which he did, but come on, you saw this coming, didn't you Teddy?

[flpoljunkie]

10. Really?

In a recent TV campaign ad, Senator Hillary Clinton said we need to “end the unfunded mandate known as No Child Left Behind which has been so difficult for so many.” On her web site, she says she “supports the use of growth models to track student performance; believes we ought to reward schools that make progress and thinks educators should have more of a say in turning around struggling schools.” Clinton “opposes the one size fits all approach” to schools and “is pushing for more flexibility in the law.”

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/education/

[rodeodance]

25. her web page is not updated

[rodeodance]

35. As she travels and gets an earful from people her position is evolving: Here:

The probable end of NCLB
January 12th, 2008 10:50 am

One of the nice effects about living near or in New Hampshire is being able to meet Presidential candidates up close and personal every four years. Right before the New Hampshire Primary my wife, some friends and I decided to re-politicize ourselves and take part in both an Obama and Clinton rally. Thinking back we all realized we haven’t done this in many a decade.



At the Clinton rally I was allowed to ask how the candidate felt about NCLB. She stated it was a failed program the Bush Administration refuses to finance. She stated that if elected she would either scrap or change it so it could work. She eloquently stated she understood accountability was important but the idea schools in trouble should be penalized simply did not make sense.



She also stated a test should not have the power to both define the student and equate if a school is successful. She understood many states ‘dumbed’ down their tests in order to succeed in a program without any thought of how it was hurting their students. Hillary Clinton went on to state too much time is being wasted teaching to a test that literally means nothing. This test-taking time and preparation was simply taking time away from educating the children of our nation.



OK, it is obvious Hillary Clinton was speaking to the choir about the failures of this program. But, it was heartening for me to hear the potential powers understand that this program is a total failure. As a teacher I am still being forced into programs and curriculums I know will fail. As an educator I am dismayed over the time and money being spent in order to do nothing. I pray there is a light at the end of the tunnel when we once again will be able to teach our students what they need to know in order to succeed in their lives and not on a test……….


http://fabiano.magic-city-news.com/

Data does not define who our children are
January 26th, 2008 7:23 am

[zulchzulu]

17. Obama would reform it...it's more complicated than just funding it

Watch the video:
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/barack-obama-on-no-child-left-behind/3843062571

[H2O Man]

19. Right.

I think that we do ourselves a disservice when we attempt to present issues in an "either-or" manner that does not accurately represent the other person's position.

[calmblueocean]

33. So good to hear. I agree, too. Let's criticize their actual positions, and not cartoons.

Otherwise, we're not being honest.

[Reader Rabbit]

21. NCLB should be shit-canned.

My 7th graders took their standardized tests yesterday. As I was explaining the procedures and details, one of them said, "We've been doing this since third grade. We know all that already."

How sad is that?

Then one of them said, "Why do we have to take tests all the time, anyway?"

My response was, "Because people don't trust us teachers to do our job."

The kid shot right back, "That's insulting!"

To which I said, "Yup. Thanks for noticing." Of course, we then proceeded on to the mind-numbing testing rigmarole.

NCLB sucks the love right out of teaching and learning. It benefits no one but the corporations who make tests or sell curriculum designed to "improve" test scores.

*sigh*

[UALRBSofL]

27. Well, I wonder how strong a voice the teachers

will have this year and how effective the teachers union will be for Hillary. The only one I can think of that didn't endorse Hillary was the California Teachers Union.

[robbedvoter]

28. Wes Clark: NLCB - a hand grenade thrown at public education" Why reform a hand grenade?

[KittyWampus]

43. ask Hillary because that's her state policy position as well.

[JackRiddler]

29. Okay, so why did she vote for it and why should I trust someone who...

consistently voted for so many things she claims now to oppose?

The usual excuse for this behavior is that things were a certain way at the time and she couldn't do otherwise politically, blah blah blah. Which raises the question: let's say a crisis hits early in her term - is she going to react any differently than Bush would?

[Fermezlabush]

31. Don't reform shitty laws! Throw away everything W touched!

[9119495]

32. Obama will end NCLB.

It will expire and EVERY president gets to drive education in the direction they choose.

[pdxmom]

34. As a former educator, I've read all the candidates' platforms on this

area. Of the two remaining candidates, I find Obama's platform the most comprehensive and the one I view as most able to bring actual change. You need a way to evaluate the progress of kids and schools. But NCLB is flawed and needs to be funded and reformed. And possibly renamed to get the stench of its failure out of the air. End it and come up with a new method of evaluation or start with a framework and reform it.

[Avalux]

36. Please provide proof that Obama will continue NCLB. You've made a statement, back it up.

:shrug:

[robbedvoter]

38. Otherwise, why are you all explaining the extent of his "reform" rather than

simply showing me where he says he'd do away with it?
Would his illustrious endorser Ted Kennedy agree with doing away with the bill that garnered him so much quality time with W after the stolen election?

[Avalux]

39. Thanks for answering my question. n/t

[KittyWampus]

44. please provide proof Hillary will END it as opposed to reforming it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

40. Don't forgt who actually helped WRITE NCLB...Barack's new endorser, Ted Kennedy.

No Child Left Behind


Kennedy was a major player in the bipartisan team that wrote the controversial No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, which, according to both Kennedy and President Bush, was a compromise. He then worked to get it passed in a Republican controlled Congress, despite the opposition of members from both parties.<snip>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kennedy

[robbedvoter]

42. After many private meetings with W - thanks for this picture!

[in_cog_ni_to]

48. You're welcome.

:)

[Cosmocat]

45. Look ...

first off, can you imagine how bad the thing would be had Kennedy NOT been a big part of it ???

second, it was the first big bill in Bushco's reign ... after the 90s, Kennedy wanted to be a part of it, and try to extend a fig leaf of bipartisanship ... As much of a disaster as he likely was to be, you have to try, at least at first ...

[beachmom]

41. Please provide a link to Hillary Clinton saying she will end it.

A Wes Clark quote doesn't cut it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

47. Please see #46......n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

46. " End the unfunded mandate known as No Child Left Behind." Hillary Clinton

Improving Our Schools

From her days as a staff attorney for the Children's Defense Fund (CDF) working as an advocate for children with special needs to her leadership of the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee, Hillary has been a passionate advocate for providing greater educational opportunities to all children. Her work for CDF helped pave the way for the Education for All Handicapped Children Act, the first time children with special needs were guaranteed the right to a free, appropriate public education. Her work in Arkansas led to tangible results: teacher salaries doubled, class size fell significantly, learning standards and assessments were implemented, and students were given much greater access to higher-level science and foreign-language courses. Hillary also brought Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youngsters, a model parent education program, to the state in order to better prepare all children to start school.

As the nation's First Lady, Hillary promoted the Prescription for Reading program, encouraging pediatricians to "prescribe" that new parents read to their children. She helped create Early Head Start in order to prepare students from low income backgrounds for school. She also spearheaded the administration's efforts to grow an after-school program from a pilot program of $1 million to a $1 billion program, serving children in all 50 states. As a senator, Hillary worked to reform and fully fund No Child Left Behind. She helped enact legislation to recruit and retain teachers and principals to high-need areas. She has been committed to strengthen and fully fund our special education system. She also helped fight off efforts by the Bush administration to slash afterschool funding by 40 percent. As president, Hillary will fight for each and every child in America to have access to the highest quality schools so that they can fulfill their potential and reach their dreams.

Ready to Lead

Early Childhood Education

Hillary knows that parents are our children's first teachers, and the early years have a tremendous impact on their lives. That is why she will invest heavily in proven strategies to get all children ready for school, including:

* Nurse home visitation programs to help new parents develop parenting skills.
* Quality child care and Head Start.
* Pre-kindergarten for all four-year olds.


K-12

Hillary also knows that we have to improve our K-12 system in order to ensure that every child is prepared to compete in an increasingly global economy. As president, she will:

* End the unfunded mandate known as No Child Left Behind.
* Meet the funding promises of IDEA to ensure that children with special needs get the attention and support they deserve.
* Recruit and retain thousands more outstanding teachers and principals, especially in urban and rural areas.
* Cut the minority dropout rate in half.
* Create "Green Schools" in order to reduce energy costs and eliminate environmental hazards that can hinder children's development.
* Expand early-intervention mentoring programs to help one million at-risk youth aspire for college and job success.
* Identify at-risk youth early on and provide $1 billion in intensive interventions, such as early college high schools and multiple pathways to graduation, to get them back on track.
* Double the after school program to ensure that 2 million young people have a safe and stimulating place to go between 3 and 6 p.m.
* Invest $100 million in a new public/private summer internship program.
* Provide opportunity for 1.5 million disconnected youth in job programs linked to high-growth economic sectors.


College Access

In the 21st century, a college education is more important than ever. Hillary believes it's time for a new bargain with the American people -- a bargain that gives all Americans willing to work hard the tools they need to get ahead. Her plan will make college more affordable and accessible so that every American who has earned it and wants to go has the chance to get a college degree. As president, she will:

* Create a new $3,500 college tax credit.
* Increase the maximum Pell Grant.
* Strengthen community colleges through a $500 million investment.
* Create a graduation fund to increase college graduation rates.
* Increase to $10,000 the college scholarship for those who participate in AmeriCorps full-time for one year.
* Get rid of the red tape in financial aid.
* Hold college costs down and hold colleges accountable for results though an online college cost calculator, a college graduation and employment rate index, and truth in tuition disclosure.
* Challenge selective colleges to expand access for students from low-income communities.

Hillary's Plans

* Universal Pre-K
* Youth Opportunity Agenda
* Plan to Address the Drop-Out Crisis
* Making College Affordable for More Families
* Protecting Families From Predatory College Loans



Paid for by Hillary Clinton

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/education/

[Tatiana]

50. Now HERE'S a substantive argument. Hillary is right on this one. n/t

[Irishonly]

51. It needs to go

NCLB has to be the worst education legislation ever passed. I don't believe the congress people voting for it had any idea it would turn into the monster it has become. I recently saw a bench mark test for language that was given in one of my local districts. There were four drawings and the task was to write a sentence about each picture. The passing test consisted of three to four word very simple sentences which read more like a 1st grader had written them although it was a third grade test. The failing test had complete descriptive sentences but the student had misspelled suitcase. The passing test called the suitcase a box. I honestly don't know how it can be fixed.

My daughter is an AP student in another district which has no problems meeting the standards of NCLB. Another district has had no problems either and both high schools place in the top 1000 schools. The district where I saw the benchmark is in danger of having the government come in and take over because of low scores. The district educates many ESL students and many of the students live at or below the poverty level. I know many teachers and I can honestly say the teachers in the troubled district are just as good as the teachers in the other two districts.

If anyone had bothered to read what Texas teachers were saying about Bush on message boards they would have known he was anything but an education president.

As a parent I am frustrated at how much teaching time is lost because of testing. There are times I wonder how much learning can take place because it is live or die by the benchmarks.

[kwolf68]

54. Bingo

"As a parent I am frustrated at how much teaching time is lost because of testing."


-My son is a fair student, he tries, but isn't that great, but he is a masterful artist, and because of my influence is quite adept at music as well.

However, there is NO TIME for music and the arts...they are drilling him to pass the SOLs in Virginia, which he is doing.

However, we have hired an art teacher to come in every week to work with him and I teach him music. This is sad, not because my child will go without. I have the means to hire an artist to work with him and I am a musician so I can teach him music.

But what about those kids whose parents are not in position to spend $200/month on art lessons and can't read music? My kids will be (hopefully) fine as I am subsidizing what the schools can no longer give them...it's the other kids that are getting the shaft. We are not taking care of them and our public education system owes it to them.

I am no Hillary fan, but she's right on this one. She's always had a good understanding of child welfare and education issues.

[ProSense]

52. Hillary's position on NCLB

Hillary's position on NCLB

[ProSense]

55. BS alert: Is anyone going to acknowledge that using a quote from Clark is not Hillary's position?