Is there a danger that Hillary may turn off enough black voters...?

[kentuck]

to affect the general election, if she is the nominee? Is South Carolina really that vital for either her or Obama that they would take such a gamble as that? Sometimes people that feel they have been done wrong are not so quick to kiss and make up. Wouldn't it be more wise for her to strike a conciliatory tone in South Carolina and choose the fight another day, if she were to lose? That would be my advice.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

1. I don't know, did she invite some ex-black to sing at an event? -nt

[Jed Dilligan]

12. Michael doesn't test well with voters anymore. nt

[jasmine621]

60. No. The "black" vote is not as unified as it was10 years ago.

That voting block is shattered thanks to Obama campaign this year. He should have waited until next time. The lesson to me is, voting blocks sometimes have to give up short term goals to gain long term advantage. But...the Latino or Hispanic vote is much more powerful now. Besides the anti-immigration issue will be the unifying issue for them as civil rights once was for blacks.

I'm wearing flame retard underwear. Flame away.

[TwilightZone]

2. A similar assertion with Barack and white voters would hold equality validity, would it not?

I don't think that it's just black voters who are disapproving of the current tone of the campaign.

[kentuck]

4. I'm not sure about that?

Although Barack has dropped about 4 percent in the polls? But they don't say if the drop was in black voters or white voters?

[TwilightZone]

15. To be honest, I'm not sure it's really a problem for either of them.

IMHO, this is politics, and politics is always really just one big catfight, especially in the primaries. I'm not sure that Mr. or Ms. Average Voter really pays attention during the primaries, and if they do, if they care.

Will it turn some people off? Sure. Will we lose a lot of Democrats in November, either way? I don't think so.

[Lucinda]

23. I agree...And the polling isnt showing that either candidate is disliked by the others voters

It's just the normal flow of media driven primaries

[TwilightZone]

24. It does show, however...

that Obama's "I'll get all of Hillary's votes, but my voters may not vote for Hillary" meme seems to be working, at least here.

[Lucinda]

29. I dont think so. Even in SC polling Hillarys approval rating is right up with Obamas

and the "young new voters and Indys" have only turned out for Obama in Iowa. I'm not seeing any core base for him that wouldnt vote Dem anyway.

[TwilightZone]

30. Sorry, I should have been clearer.

I don't think it's true in reality, but here on DU, it's being used as the basis for a lot of claims.

There's a lot of anti-Republican sentiment, and there's really no reason to believe the either candidate's supporters are going to dump the eventual nominee in droves anywhere but here on DU. And, I hope the ones here are just grandstanding.

[Lucinda]

36. Ahh...I was reading several threads at once and didn't get the DU reference

DU is soooo not the real world.

And since I think some of the posters, for all the candidates here, are here just to cause trouble, I tend to ignore most of the really big grandstanding posts. I've even finally put a few on temporary ignore, just for my sanity. :)

[TwilightZone]

38. Agreed.

I think that we could get rid of a half-dozen or so supporters of each of the candidates, and this would be a very different place.

I'm pretty sure that if we ALL ignored them, they'd have to go away, right? :)

[Lucinda]

39. True! I saw one person last week, complaining that no one was answering

their challenges, and it was all I could do to stop myself from saying that they were probably on ignore with everyone they had hoped would answer.

I TRY to just stop responding to those posters. Your post reminds me that I should try harder! :thumbsup:

[TwilightZone]

40. Nah, we all do it.

I do it, and then I wonder why I bothered. Then, I do it again.

I'm not even sure why I spend so much time here. I definitely have other stuff I *should* be doing, but it's like a train wreck...


Can't...look...away! :)

[Lucinda]

45. I know! I have a big project I'm supposed to be working on...and I was here waaaay toooo long

yesterday!

[TwilightZone]

48. Off to work it is!

;)

[Lucinda]

49. Yeah....riiiight!

:rofl:

[TwilightZone]

50. Yeah, yeah...

I know!

(Really, I'm leaving now. Really.)

[Lucinda]

52. You're stronger than I am!

I am now, however, actually IN the room where the work needs to be done. So that's progress!

[Frances]

7. Agree

I hope all the Dem candidates will cool it. What good does it do any of them to alienate a block of traditional Dems? There will be a general election and we'll need every vote we can get.

[HeraldSquare212]

3. According to reports, people like Kennedy have been expressing that fear to Bill. nt

[Cha]

5. They have been a lot of Senior Democrats telling

bill clinton to reign it in..they haven't mentioned Obama as adding fuel to bill's bonfire of lies.

[HeraldSquare212]

8. And I defer to their experience as politicians and campaigners.

Kennedy hasn't endorsed anyone, so it's not as though he's laying off Obama because he supports him.

[Cha]

20. Exactly..they see what's going on and I've

kept track of a compilation of all the Dems asking bill clinton to ..from anything to cool it-to zip it.

[kentuck]

13. It seems to me...

that the one who could come across as the most conciliatory and most willing to compromise over this issue would be the one most likely to win in the long run?

[Cha]

17. And that would be Obama.

He has what it takes to lead not lie.

[kentuck]

21. He has not been conciliatory or compromising in SC...

If he were, I think it would help him a great deal.

[Cha]

26. Oh I think he has...he's not let the clinton

lies go unaccounted for..there's no way bil is going to get away with this..but Obama does it in a nice intelligent way. He's standing up to the swiftboating from the clintons and Kerry is behind him.

[kentuck]

27. That sounds like tit for tat?

Not compromising or conciliatory?

[Cha]

28. This is on another thread and it's not tit for tat as you so

un-understandingly phrase it. It goes on and on and I'm beginning to think you want Obama to ignore bc and hc at his own peril.

Obama defends fierce tone of campaign with Clinton
By John Whitesides, Political Correspondent

KINGSTREE, South Carolina (Reuters) - Democrat Barack Obama on Thursday defended the fierce tone of his recent exchanges with presidential rival Hillary Clinton and said he was forced to fight back against her campaign's disregard for the truth.

Obama, an Illinois senator, said he was battling a "tough, well-honed political machine" operated by Clinton and her husband, former President Bill Clinton, but did not think their escalating feud would hurt the party in November's election.

"One principle that I think we want to firmly establish is, if people are making false assertions about my record, we will answer them," Obama, who would be the first black U.S. president, told reporters.

The top two contenders for the Democratic nomination have engaged in a widening war of words, including a debate on Monday in which they traded a series of harsh and sometimes personal attacks.

Obama ran a tough radio ad accusing Clinton, a New York senator who would be the first woman U.S. president, of being willing to "say anything to get elected."

He said it was in response to Clinton's radio ad, which he said distorted his comments about Republican ideas.

more

Bill Clinton: I kind of like to see Barack and Hillary fight.

AP Interview: Hill defends Bill on stump

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4186188

[kentuck]

32. No, I'm saying both of them should ignore it...

and be conciliatory with the other side. The one that could show that type of willingness for civility would come out ahead in the long run, imo..

[Cha]

35. It would have been wonderful if the attack dog hadn't

opened up the big ol' can of ugliness but reportedly Kerry didn't go after the Swiftboaters in 2004 and it didn't go him any good. Now Obama is answering the clintons with Kerry's and a lot of other respected Dems' help and I couldn't be happier.

[kentuck]

44. But the people that went after Kerry were not fellow Democrats...

Big difference. It's time for them to call a truce on this BS.... Both sides.

[Cha]

54. Talk to bil and hilary..not

me anymore..I'm not playing this game.

[Az_lefty]

6. biggest danger is she's turning people off across the board...

I don't see any way, other than an utter disaster on the GOP side, that she could win the GE.

[DrFunkenstein]

9. Not a Single Southern Delegate in the GE

Obama has a fighting chance to pick up a few more states in the mix, especially if he goes with an Obama-Webb ticket.

[Cha]

33. Obama/Webb..that sounds

all encompassing!

[Imagevision]

10. She's turning off white voters - McCain just might kick her ass come November...

[book_worm]

11. Yes, if AA turnout is affected she can kiss any chance of winning goodbye

that's why I wish the Clinton's would stop playing the race card.

[VotesForWomen]

31. but obama can win without whites and women? YOU are the one playing the race and gender

cards. jeez do you hear clinton suopporter saying 'if obama doesn't kiss my ass i'm not going to vote for him if he gets the nomination.'

[EffieBlack]

42. How are the Clintons playing the race card?

[GoldieAZ49]

14. She already has, and white voters

The Clintons are trying to paint Obama as the 'black' candidate (to marginalize him) instead of a candidate of change.

Don't buy it.

She has turned off far more than Black voters.

I am white, female and voting for Obama.

Clintons are not just establishment, they are history, old ugly history at that.

[Jed Dilligan]

16. Bill's appeal with black people doesn't carry over to her

It's an intangible, but a pretty strong one. The main thing minorities in general don't want is to be condescended to, and that's the only play in her book.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

18. Only if people make a project of accomplishing that goal

If Obama, or other black leaders, made a project of dis-unity during the GE it could happen.

But one hopes nobody would be that wicked.

In any event, if Barack was on the ticket the black turnout would be unprecedented, so it's a problem Clinton could overcome rather simply.

[chimpymustgo]

19. Vote Edwards! The healthy alternative. A clean campaign. Hope and PLANS for real change.

The campaign needs $65,000 today to run a new spot in South Carolina:

See the advertisement and contribute here:

http://www.johnedwards.com/watch/native-son-movie /

(thanks to DU'er Kerry2008 - got the info link & from her post)

[BooScout]

22. I seriously doubt it....

What national support Obama does have from black voters is recent. The Clintons(both of them) have for years supported Civil Rights issues and have been well regarded by Black Americans. It's pretty much an Obama fantasy that her lifetime of work for the Civil Rights Movement and Social Justice has been suddenly negated.

[David Zephyr]

25. It's already happened.

The proof?

Four weeks ago, African-American women were split evenly between Mrs. Clinton and Barack. Donna Brazille had astutle pointed out long ago that they would be a barometer to watch in the contest because they, obviously, had investment in both candidates.

That 50/50 split has now shifted dramatically and passionately to Obama. That sheds some insight to your question.

African-American women know which side took the low road in this contest: It was the Clintons.

How wounding has this been? It can't be measured, and sadly it still continues as you can witness first hand with the current Clinton supporter's O.P. here bringing back the lie that Barack is a "muslim".

There are some scabs that one doesn't pick with. The Clintons don't even have a clue to how much damage they have done to the single most loyal constituent group the Democratic Party has had for over 70 years now. How lame was that?

[GoldieAZ49]

34. Clinton supporter's O.P. here bringing back the lie that Barack is a "muslim"

I saw that. It was Disgustingly Ugly and, I think, Desperate.

glad it was lock and archived. So the "Big Tent" is getting smaller it seems.

[David Zephyr]

41. Sad.

And it still continues.

Robert Reich, a loyal Clintonista, finally had enough today. Hope you can catch his startling piece of criticism against Bill & Hillary for smearing Obama.

[Radical Activist]

37. Democrats lose if black voters stay home.

I don't know if its gotten that bad yet or not.
I also wonder if Bill Clinton will campaign for Obama if he gets the nomination.

[EffieBlack]

43. He said he would.

[bluedog]

46. its the Media that is picking Obama

every where.every station.Obama says Clinton..........Obama this Obama that......that are practically putting a crown-on him............I do not hear very many negative issues about him being brought out.....

they want Obama...so he can get his ass kicked in Nov........the media has never been on the side of Democrats but yet they are pushing him down our throats......

[Nedsdag]

47. She already turned me off.

Plus, she's not getting me back.

[BenDavid]

51. only in south carolina......rest of the country will be 50 50

[Nimrod2005]

53. She already has............nt

[qanda]

55. As a black woman, I guess I can somewhat speak to your question

I find my black female friends are so upset with what Hillary is doing that I don't see them ever voting for her. I've never liked Hillary, so no great change for me. However, my black male friends are different for some reason. They don't seem to be fazed by it and in some cases they even side with Hillary-- it's weird. I'm sure this isn't across the board, but it seems to be pretty consistently the case with my friends.

[kentuck]

57. Thanks for your response, qanda...

This seemed so unnecessary to me.

[RamboLiberal]

56. Local Liberal Talk Radio(Pittsburgh) and National

I'm hearing a number of AA callers that are angry and saying if Clinton is the nominee they are staying home. I think there very well is the chance this will somewhat fracture the Democratic voters. Local sub AA host on Monday went off on the Clintons.

I'm a white female and I'm getting disgusted with the tone.

It may be if Hillary is the nominee the only way to heal this rift would be to name Obama the VP candidate if he would accept.

Interesting piece here tonight from McClatchy:

NEW YORK While his edge his closer than in some other polls, Barack Obama leads Hillary Clinton in South Carolina, "where their increasingly bitter rivalry has opened a deep racial divide among Democrats days before the party's first primary in the South on Saturday," McClatchy reports tonight in reviewing its new McClatchy-MSNBC poll.

African-Americans "break solidly" for Obama, with 59 percent supporting him vs. 25 percent for Clinton, 4 percent for former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards and 12 percent undecided. White voters: 40 percent support Edwards, 36 percent back Clinton, 10 percent are behind Obama and 14 percent are undecided.

Some other polls have shown Obama with a double digit lead. Racial politics has come to the fore in recent days, with charges back and forth.

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003701722

[FrenchieCat]

58. She turned me wayyyy off. Really, really off.

And I used to like her quite a bit.

[IndianaGreen]

59. Hillary is a wet dream!

No Democrat can win solely on Democratic votes. Independents will never go for Hillary.

[jackson_dem]

61. I like her but not that much!

[stravu9]

62. Every day at work I ask people, mostly low income, it is Social Services, to register to vote...

4 out of 5 decline and I have them sign a card to that effect.
These are the people who NEED ASSISTANCE!
I always say:"Well, if you don't vote, you can't complain!"
And they laugh!
If the most dis-enfranchised people in our country WILL NOT VOTE what are we to do?
So, no, not my clients anyway.