Handy Guide to The Clintons Tied to Corruption with Hsu Crime Family

[zulchzulu]

Since the Clintons want to open up a can of worms with the Obama-Rezko story, where Patrick Fitzgerald has stated that Obama has done no wrongdoing in a real-estate deal involving buying a small lot next to his property, it's time to bring out the REAL story of corruption and the continuing saga of scandals that the Clinton name is known to be remembered for. Yes, the Clintons are scandal magnets and here's proof of only one of many others that could erupt if Hillary is the nominee. We'll leave the names Vinod Gupta and Belinda Stronach out of this story...for now.

Let's go down the merry lane of Planet Hsu (pronounced "shoe") and the links of corruption with the Clinton family.

Hsu, an immigrant from Hong Kong who by several accounts is a charming and easygoing man with an imperfect command of English, was convicted in California in 1991 for corporate theft, according to court records.

(snip)

Several who mingled with Hsu at Clinton's lavish fundraising parties, strategy briefings and intimate dinners said he shared little about himself, beyond his work in what they called "the rag trade."

(snip)

The Clinton campaign has not yet released any information about the 260 donors whose contributions it is now refunding because they were credited to the prodigious fundraising of the former fugitive, but a detailed analysis of donors Hsu brought to Clinton shows that he tapped many Asian American donors in California and New York, including complete strangers as well as his relatives. He also raised political funds from people who had already invested large sums in his private business ventures.

(snip)

The donations from Lee and Huang include $38,000 to Clinton's Senate campaign, political action committee and presidential committee. The two gave a total of $9,200 -- the maximum allowed -- to Clinton's presidential bid in the first quarter of this year, donations for which Hsu claimed credit. They also gave $8,400 in January to Clinton's 2012 Senate campaign, even though her reelection bid is six years off.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/15/AR2007091501386_pf.html

Let's dig a little deeper into the swamp. Make sure you have your noseplugs on.

After pledging to return $850,000 raised by fugitive fundraiser Norman Hsu, Sen. Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign vowed this week to do more rigorous background checks of big donors.

But some law enforcement officials contend the former first lady — or someone close to her — should have known about Hsu's fugitive status, given the routine background checks conducted by the U.S. Secret Service on protected persons.

Media outlets have featured pictures of Clinton, a New York senator, standing next to Hsu during past fundraising events.

The Clinton campaign was planning a September fundraiser before news broke about Hsu's 1991 guilty plea to grand theft in a California court and his subsequent flight to avoid prosecution.

"I would absolutely be shocked if the protective intelligence division of the Secret Service was not fully aware of Mr. Hsu's status as a fugitive," Carl Rowan, a federal agent with both the FBI and the U.S. Marshalls for a decade, said in an interview. Rowan, now president of Securitas, a private security firm, said he has worked closely with the U.S. Secret Service in the past.

"It is standard operating procedure to run the names and Social Security numbers of anyone who will be close to the protectee," Rowan continued. "Besides the safety concerns, the Secret Service works hard to avoid embarrassing situations for the protectee."

(snip)

However, according to the Secret Service Web site, Public Law 89-186, approved by Congress in 1965, requires the agency to "protect a former president and his/her spouse during their lifetime, unless they decline protection."

The law was changed in 1997 to protect only former presidents for 10 years after leaving office. But that law applies only to presidents elected after that year, 1997. "Therefore, President Clinton will be the last president to receive lifetime protection," the Secret Service Web site stated.

"There are all kinds of levels of background checks that would make law enforcement raise their eyebrows," said Ted Deeds, chief operating officer of the Law Enforcement Alliance of America.

"I'm sure the Secret Service knew he was a wanted felon fugitive. What a scandal it would be if they didn't warn a president or first lady they were standing next to a convicted felon," he added.

It's standard operating procedure to check the Social Security number and date of birth of anyone who is going to be in a room with the president or first lady, Deeds said.

"If the Secret Service did not do the basic due-diligence check, then the questions are even more pointed," said Deeds. "Who ordered them not to do it and why? Was the Clinton campaign, and by extension the Democrat fundraising machine, so focused on money that they would violate basic security protocol?"

Hsu is not the only big Clinton donor facing legal problems that might be flagged in a background check.

So no big deal, right? The Clintons know a lot of people and this Hsu fellow just slipped through the cracks, right? Well, um..., no. There's more.

Los Angeles businessman Abdul Rehman Jinah, a Pakistani immigrant, is wanted by federal authorities on charges he channeled $30,000 in illegal contributions to Clinton's presidential campaign.

He reportedly disappeared after a federal grand jury indicted him for violating federal election laws, according to press reports.

Jinah has also appeared in pictures with Clinton in the media, apparently making it through any vetting or non-vetting conducted in regards to the former first lady. The Clinton campaign said it would give the money raised by Jinah to charity.

Sant S. Chatwal, an Indian-American businessman, has raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for Clinton's campaign, according to The Washington Post, even while he battles the IRS over $4 million in unpaid taxes, New York state over a $5 million tax lien, and the government of India over a bank fraud charge.

Clinton critic Gary Aldrich - an FBI agent for 26 years who was assigned from 1990 to 1995 to the White House during both the George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton administrations to conduct background checks - thinks the Secret Service must have told someone on the campaign staff about the shady past of certain donors.

"Fundraising events, you don't want to be melees, so the guest list is carefully scrutinized," Aldrich told Cybercast News Service.

"It's likely the Secret Service would see there was a warrant for someone's arrest, and go to the point person. They may have been told to disregard the warrant. The Secret Service wouldn't tell the candidate, but the handlers, so she (Clinton) would have plausible deniability," he added.

The questions surrounding Hsu, a native of Hong Kong, resurrected memories of President Clinton's fundraising scandals in the 1990s involving foreign cash, collectively known as "Chinagate."

During that scandal, Larry Klayman, former president of Judicial Watch, a conservative government watchdog group, attempted and failed to get information on what Secret Service agents knew about people allowed into the White House.

Like others, he finds it difficult to believe no one in the Clinton campaign knew of Hsu's past.

"We're not dealing with an ordinary public figure," Klayman told Cybercast News Service. "Anybody that comes near them (Bill and Hillary Clinton) with a foreign background should be investigated. This is a continuation of the Chinagate scandal."

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200709/POL20070914a.html

Hey Hillaryworld, do you wanna play hard ball? There's plenty more of this to splatter all over you.

[durrrty libby]

1. There there.....It's almost over

[papau]

12. LOL -fun to see a long post that shows the Clintons did not do a favored real estate deal w/ mob

not your post, of course -

but the OP had long read that had nothing near the size of the problem that Obama will have with the GOP re: Rezko

[durrrty libby]

34. Can you imagine wasting so much time and putting all that effort into

such tripe? Gotta feel for those people

[RaleighNCDUer]

44. What's Rezko been convicted of?

And what was he convicted of prior to the time that Obama gave his donation to charity?

[ccpup]

48. some info:

The 24-count superseding indictment charging Rezko and Levine alleges that the first stage of their scheme began in 2003 when the two men agreed to divert to Rezko and his associate $250,000 out of a $375,000 finder’s fee paid by an investment firm that received $50 million in investment funds from the Teachers Retirement System (TRS), on whose board of trustees Levine served, and that they engaged in a flurry of additional illegal deal-making during the spring of 2004. During April and May of 2004, according to the indictment, Rezko and Levine arranged to split among themselves and others nearly $5 million in kickbacks from six different investment firms then seeking funds from TRS and another state pension fund. Rezko and Levine also allegedly agreed to tell a seventh firm that it would only receive a $220 million allocation from TRS if it either paid $2 million to a consultant who would funnel the money evenly to Rezko and Levine, or made a $1.5 million political contribution to a certain public official. During the same time period, the indictment alleges, Rezko and Levine also were seeking to obtain a kickback of at least $1 million from contractor Jacob Kiferbaum, whose construction company was to build a new facility for Mercy Hospital in Crystal Lake, Illinois, if that facility received approval from the Illinois Health Facilities Planning Board, on which Levine sat. After the firm seeking the $220 million investment from TRS rejected the alleged extortion attempt in early May 2004, Rezko and Levine’s fraud scheme was further thwarted when Levine was confronted by federal agents on May 20, 2004, according to the indictment.

The loan fraud indictment, which charges only Rezko, alleges that he fraudulently caused GECC to extend more than $10 million in loans to finance what Rezko portrayed as sales of two different groups of pizza restaurants in the Chicago and Milwaukee areas. In fact, the indictment alleges, the sales were sham transactions that occurred at inflated prices, and involved the presentation of false financial information to GECC. The indictment alleges that in addition to defrauding GECC, Rezko defrauded investors in his pizza business by concealing the fact that he was transferring the company’s assets to himself and a straw purchaser.

http://www.mchenrycountyblog.com/2006/10/blagojevich-fund-raiser-antoin-rezko.html

also:

A. William Cellini: Longtime Springfield powerbroker and associate of Stuart Levine's. Allegedly acted as a go-between in one shakedown.

B. Christopher G. Kelly: Blagojevich fund-raiser. Allegedly discussed plans to raise political donations from investment firms.

C. Sheldon Pekin: Consultant who allegedly agreed to kick back $250,000 in fees in return for getting TRS business.

D. Joseph Aramanda: Rezko associate who allegedly got $250,000 from Pekin "in substantial part for the benefit of Rezko."

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/93095,CST-NWS-rezbox12.article

[RaleighNCDUer]

55. IOW, nothing.

There were no prior convictions, or even indictments, that Obama could have been aware of. As soon as it came to light, Obama cut his ties, passed his donations on to charity.

There is no there, there.

[ccpup]

56. um ...

"Everybody in this town knew that Tony Rezko was headed for trouble," said Jay Stewart of the Better Government Assn. in Chicago. "When he got indicted, there wasn't a single insider who was surprised. It was viewed as a long time coming. . . . Why would you be having anything to do with Tony Rezko, particularly if you're planning to run for president?"

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-rezko23jan23,1,392172.story?page=1&ctrack=2&cset=true

... not quite

[ccpup]

57. running out the door ...

but you also may want to Google rezko obama no heat and rezko obama letters and see what you come up with.

[RaleighNCDUer]

58. So?

Rezko letters: "This wasn't done as a favor for anyone," Burton said in a written statement. "It was done in the interests of the people in the community who have benefited from the project.

"I don't know that anyone specifically asked him to write this letter nine years ago," the statement said. "There was a consensus in the community about the positive impact the project would make and Obama supported it because it was going to help people in his district. . . . They had a wellness clinic and adult day-care services, as well as a series of social services for residents. It's a successful project. It's meant a lot to the community, and he's proud to have supported it.''

No heat: "Just what legal work -- and how much -- Obama did on those deals is unknown. His campaign staff acknowledges he worked on some of them. But the Rezmar-related work amounted to just five hours over the six years it said Obama was affiliated with the law firm, the staff said in an e-mail in February."

[ccpup]

59. (sigh) "I've never done any favors for him.'' - Obama

As a state senator, Barack Obama wrote letters to city and state officials supporting his political patron Tony Rezko's successful bid to get more than $14 million from taxpayers to build apartments for senior citizens.

The deal included $855,000 in development fees for Rezko and his partner, Allison S. Davis, Obama's former boss, according to records from the project, which was four blocks outside Obama's state Senate district.

Obama's letters, written nearly nine years ago, for the first time show the Democratic presidential hopeful did a political favor for Rezko -- a longtime friend, campaign fund-raiser and client of the law firm where Obama worked -- who was indicted last fall on federal charges that accuse him of demanding kickbacks from companies seeking state business under Gov. Blagojevich.

The letters appear to contradict a statement last December from Obama, who told the Chicago Tribune that, in all the years he's known Rezko, "I've never done any favors for him.''

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/425305,CST-NWS-obama13.article

But their company, Rezmar Corp., did come up with $1,000 to give to the political campaign fund of Barack Obama, the newly elected state senator whose district included the unheated building....

The building in Englewood was one of 30 Rezmar rehabbed in a series of troubled deals largely financed by taxpayers. Every project ran into financial difficulty. More than half went into foreclosure, a Chicago Sun-Times investigation has found.

"Their buildings were falling apart,'' said a former city official. "They just didn't pay attention to the condition of these buildings.''

Eleven of Rezko's buildings were in Obama's state Senate district....

Rezko and Mahru had no construction experience when they created Rezmar in 1989 to rehabilitate apartments for the poor under the Daley administration. Between 1989 and 1998, Rezmar made deals to rehab 30 buildings, a total of 1,025 apartments. The last 15 buildings involved Davis Miner Barnhill & Galland during Obama's time with the firm.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/353829,CST-NWS-rez23.article

So, it appear Uh-bama wrote letters to help secure a multi-million dollar tax-payer funded contract for his buddy Tony who had little construction experience and would go on to oversee what the City of Chicago considered to be slums.

[RaleighNCDUer]

61. He wrote letters to support a project to provide low income housing.

He was supposed to know, at the beginning of the project, that the project would end in disaster? What he did was completely in line with his work on community projects. He is not responsible for Rezko being a douche - that was only revealed as the project collapsed.

This is, very literally, the same as Whitewater, where the Clintons invested in a project, and the project imploded on them. They didn't know it would implode when they invested in it. How can they be held accountable for someone else's mis-management?

Same thing.

[ccpup]

62. no construction experience should have been the first clue

(this was where Obama's letters came in)

Two decades ago, Antoin "Tony'' Rezko was running a food company that peddled hot dogs on Chicago's beaches. Daniel S. Mahru supplied the ice.

These businessmen had a brainstorm for a new venture -- rehabbing rundown buildings for poor black families.

Rezko and Mahru had no construction experience. Yet City Hall gave their new company, Rezmar Corp., a $629,000 loan to help fix up an abandoned apartment building at 46th and Drexel.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/355099,cst-nws-rez24a.article

(Obama denies knowing Joseph Aramanda — named as “Individual D” in the indictment, and who received $250,000 in “sham” finder’s fees “demanded by Rezko” — but “Obama’s office hired Aramanda’s son as an intern in 2005, at Rezko’s urging,” reports the Sun-Times.) link below

...

Rezko is an infamous slumlord, although — despite having worked on dozens of real estate deals that benefited his client Rezko — Obama “said he was unaware of problems with the buildings and minimized the legal work he’d done.” (So much for the “little people.”)

(link below)

...

Eleven Rezmar buildings were in the state Senate district Obama represented between 1996 and 2004. Many of the buildings ended up in foreclosure, with tenants living in squalid conditions, the Sun-Times reported last year. In one instance, Rezko’s company left tenants without heat for five weeks. Obama said he was unaware of problems with the buildings and minimized the legal work he’d done.

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/01/19/patrick-fitzgerald-ties-obama-to-rezko-indictments/

[RaleighNCDUer]

64. Why should that be a clue? Wouldn't you expect the project manager

to first off hire a contractor? No doubt, that was the expectation. So Rezko is a sleaze. Fine. When Obama wrote the letters there was no reason to expect it to not go. Your hatred of Obama is making you look foolish, laying things at his feet that were not in his purview.

As pointed out in that article, Obama did 5 hours work for the guy OVER SIX YEARS TIME. What's that, 40 minutes a year? I spend more time than that buying movie tickets. Am I supposed to know all there is to know about the ticket seller?

You are being absurd.

[ccpup]

65. He's been a close friend of Tony's for nearly 20 years,

so it's more than a few hours here and there with the guy or his business and certainly more than one would know their ticket seller. And when everyone else in Chicago knew what direction Tony was going, Obama continued his association and even did business with him. And this was even during Patrick Fitzgerald's initial investigation which ultimately led to the present Indictments.

As for hatred, not really. I'm offering substantiated fact. If someone doesn't like it, they don't need to respond. Simple as that.

[RaleighNCDUer]

66. Nothing i've read says they are close friends. Business acquaintences only.

"everyone else in Chigago knew..."

Why not say 'everyone else in Illinoi knew'.

Again, Fitzgerald's investigations have come up with NOTHING about Obama.

You ARE making shit up.

[ursi]

2. the need for these two people to get their hands on more power is amazing

[Frances]

3. The Hsu story has had its day

Let's hope Obama comes out as clean on the Chicago story.

Keep your eye on the general election!

[cali]

9. it hasn't had it's day.

Anyone who doesn't think that bushie's minions in Justice and other places aren't digging away at this, is simply being blind. This will be a big deal in the general.

[rodeodance]

49. LONG ago.

[maddiejoan]

4. Hey Obamaworld

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/07/AR2007090703047.html

Hsu Steered Major Fundraiser to Obama
Campaign Acknowledges Link to Democratic Donor Who Is Now Under Arrest
By Matthew Mosk and John Solomon
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, September 8, 2007; Page A05

Before becoming a major bundler for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's presidential campaign, disgraced Democratic donor Norman Hsu helped host a 2005 California event for Barack Obama's political action committee and introduced the senator from Illinois to one of the biggest fundraisers for his presidential bid.

Federal Election Commission records show that Hsu gave $5,000 to Obama's Hopefund PAC in connection with the fundraiser and that people publicly identified with Hsu and his companies gave an additional $19,500 to the PAC in 2005 and 2006

<snip>

[russian33]

7. oh my, how unfortunate

:)

[zulchzulu]

15. Hopefund contributions went to charity, not in Obama's pocket on that one fundraiser

It looks like Hsu had others at a Hopefund fundraiser in 2005, before Obama was running for President. Here's the comments in that article:

Obama's campaign, which has donated to charity $7,000 in direct donations that Hsu made to Hopefund and his Senate campaign committee, confirmed last night that Hsu hosted a small event for the PAC in March 2005 in Los Angeles.

"We don't know how much that event raised, but we have received an estimated $19,000 from people who were associated with Hsu in published reports, all prior to Obama becoming a presidential candidate," spokesman Bill Burton said.

"We are in the process of sending these people letters to check the validity of their contributions. When Obama entered the presidential race, Hsu had decided to support Senator Clinton and bundle for her campaign," Burton said.

Obama announced Thursday that he plans to introduce legislation to require congressional and presidential candidates to disclose the identities of bundlers and the amounts they raise.

Hsu participated in a fundraiser and the Hopefund contributions went to charity. That is nothing compared to the long history of the Hsu family with the Clintons since 1991.

Nice try. :hi:

[maddiejoan]

17. Obama hasn't been around very long

But he certainly seems to roll around like a piggie in some pretty corrupt corners for most of his career.

[ccpup]

23. Mark Gorenberg

Google the name, zilch-zulu

[Zueda]

18. The Republican NH Phone Jammer...

Allen Raymond, said it is typical for a candidate to receive money from a shady donor then ask the donor to give a little to their opponent just so that ignorant people can spout crap like that.

[maddiejoan]

20. Uhm

read the article.

Obama hit that well first.

[Zueda]

21. Does that really change the scheme?

[maddiejoan]

24. I don't acknowledge that there was a "scheme"

So it's a moot point.

[SaveElmer]

5. If NObama didn't want to have his Rezko ties discussed...he shouldn't have

Gotten into bed with him in the first place...

Why he would choose a sleazy slumlord as his political mentor (before switching to Joe Lieberman) is a mystery...

[ccpup]

63. the bigger question is

as Rezko became that sleazy slumlord, why would Obama continue his association with the guy let alone go into a land deal or use him to raise money for his political campaigns. For much of Chicago, the writing was on the wall with this guy. Why did Obama look the other way?

[mtnsnake]

6. Fox, Rush, Sean, and Karl have all tried the same thing as you and all of them failed, too.

Who gives a rats ass about rightwing attacks from the past that didn't work then and won't work now. Nice try.

[rodeodance]

51. Obama gave the money away after a story in a Chicago paper saying Obama's

name surfaced in the R. court case.

Appearances and perceptions do count.

[TwilightGardener]

8. You notice Obama had too much class to go there. I haven't heard

him talk about this, and certainly not in a televised debate. Obama is reluctant to wreck her for the general election. Too bad he doesn't get the same consideration, but he will always be the better person for not placing his ambitions above everything and everyone else. He loves his party and his country. Clintonites might be proud of her scorched-earth "knee-capping" and the politics of personal destruction, but it's not something I could ever support.

[ccpup]

11. too much class?

try again. Uh-uh-bama also got money from Hsu and, in addition, his nantional campaign finance person (and top fundraiser) Mark Gorenberg is someone Hsu introduced him to.

edited to add link and backstory:

Federal Election Commission records show that Hsu gave $5,000 to Obama's Hopefund PAC in connection with the fundraiser and that people publicly identified with Hsu and his companies gave an additional $19,500 to the PAC in 2005 and 2006.

Mark Gorenberg, who now sits on Obama's national finance committee and is one of his biggest fundraisers, said Hsu organized an early 2005 event for the Hopefund and invited him to help raise money.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/07/AR2007090703047.html

[TwilightGardener]

13. Hsu had a lot of connections--but I seem to remember Hillary having

the MOST involvement and money from this guy--I could be wrong. I also remember reports of poor Chinatown dishwashers being shaken down for money for Hillary. The Clintons and Chinese money go back a ways.

[ccpup]

22. Hsu fooled a lot of people for a long time

but Obama got suckered as well. At least Hillary still isn't employing people on her staff associated with Hsu like Uh-uh-bama is.

Check out today's LA Times for an interesting Tony Rezko piece!

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-rezko23jan23,1,392172.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

[TwilightGardener]

27. LOL! To me, it's Obama shoplifting a candy bar from the Quickie Mart

vs. career embezzlers. No comparison, if we want to start going down this road. And I don't think we do.

[ccpup]

29. Tony Rezko will be the ruin of Obama

sorry to burst your bubble, but your guy ain't ready for primetime and will stutter and stammer his way into oblivion if a repug were to throw his long association with a known hood in his face during a debate.

They don't call him Uh-uh-bama for nothin', you know.

[zulchzulu]

31. Funny how Fitzgerald finds that Obama did nothing illegal

Good for you to try to deflect from the Hsu story. There's even more than this story to hammer on Hillaryworld. Like Hillary said, we're just getting warmed up.

:hi:

[ccpup]

37. didn't accuse Obama of any wrongdoing

it's his judgment people are now worried about

from the LA Times today:

"Everybody in this town knew that Tony Rezko was headed for trouble," said Jay Stewart of the Better Government Assn. in Chicago. "When he got indicted, there wasn't a single insider who was surprised. It was viewed as a long time coming. . . . Why would you be having anything to do with Tony Rezko, particularly if you're planning to run for president?"

[rodeodance]

52. Court case has just begun. Fitsgerald issued a NO Comment.

[ccpup]

60. you're right

I'm just trying to offer a little sliver of Hope for those desperately disillusioned Uh-bamatons

[TwilightGardener]

32. No. it won't be. I'm sure Bill-n-Hill will try to make it so, but this is small

potatoes in an otherwise highly-ethical career of public service. And if you want to see the dirt, just wait until she's the nominee--I don't think there's a damaging Obama book about to come out, and a film. There's simply no comparison in terms of baggage, and you know it--so you have to attack his manner of speech. That's just sad.

[TriMetFan]

67. Both are still wrong.

Like I have said Obama is no Saint.

[Benhurst]

28. Don't be silly -- of course this shows class.

A gentleman never stoops to touching the loot when his bagman can do it for him.

[Dogmudgeon]

10. CNS ... that's Brent Bozell, isn't it?

Politics sure makes strange bedfellows.

--p!

(An example from Bozell's Investor's Business Daily Syndicate)

[MollieBradford]

14. did Hsu help her buy her house?

Did she write letters on his behalf so he could scam the taxpayers of Chicago into investing in slum properties so that he could profit while tenants froze in their homes for weeks? Did Clinton do legal work for Hsu and then lie about it in a debate? did she ever try to say that her only connection to Hsu was through a CHURCH activity?

You gotta be kidding using Larry Klayman fro a source. Are you another of those republican Obama supporters who doesn't understand what sources are appropriate on a liberal message board?

[zulchzulu]

19. Ask her... she sure got a LOT of money from him and his minions

As for Obama buying a house for $1.65M from the asking price of $2M (he got the money from his Grammy Award winning books), it's a pretty typical real estate situation where a home is set to a high price and is bought at a lower price.

The same goes for buying a small lot for $100k in that Chicago neighborhood.

Unless you just crawled out from under a rock and have no clue how real estate transactions work and how asking prices are rarely ever met, you understand that Obama buying a home and a small adjacent lot is a pretty typical real estate transaction in Chicago.

Can you debunk ANYTHING in the article or do you just want to deflect to the Rezko non-story for cover?

[ccpup]

25. then why did he apologize and call it a "mistake"

and a "boneheaded decision"?

[zulchzulu]

26. He apologized because he actually CAN apologize

He has balls. He also saw how it can be used by cheapshot mudslingers like the Clintons as an "issue", even when it's not.

[ccpup]

30. you didn't anwer the question

if it was a simple real estate deal, why did Obama feel the need to publicly apologize for making a "mistake"?

[TwilightGardener]

33. Because a public figure shouldn't even allow the APPEARANCE of

impropriety, and he knows it--he handled it professionally, it's not indicative of his the way he's run his political career, and he's otherwise pretty clean, for a Chicago politician. I really don't think, in the grand scheme of things, that Hillary and Bill will ever be seen as more ethical and less dirty than Obama, much as Clintonites would like to tar everyone else with the taint of scandal that the Clintons have had about them for years.

[ccpup]

35. and it's because Obama has sold himself as "clean"

that he's left himself open to having that halo knocked right off his head by his association with people like Tony Rezko

It's more shocking when the choir boy gets his hand caught in the cookie jar, you know?

[TwilightGardener]

42. I'm honestly not sure that anyone who's been in elected office

for any length of time is 100% "clean", because you can't be in politics that way--it takes money and connections, unfortunately, and some of those people aren't going to be of good character. But compared to any other Presidential-level politician, I'd say Obama is coming off as pretty clean and ethical, despite the level of scrutiny he's undergoing. Republicans are much dirtier--the NYT is sitting on a story about McCain doing favors for a telecom lobbyist, and he's got a lot of lobbyist connections in general--would be interesting to follow HIS money trail. Rudy, forget about it. So again, Rezko is ultimately penny-ante stuff and Obama was not found to have committed any wrongdoing, but the Clintons seem to want the magnifying glass on this, which is unfortunate. Obama has much more ethics material he could use against the Clintons (and certainly the Repubs do), but he doesn't, and I hope he won't, even if it means he loses.

[ccpup]

43. you may want to take some time to read the Chicago papers'

coverage of this.

I understand you'd like Obama to be clean, but unfortunately his statements about his association with Rezko compared with the reality they've discovered through basic digging indicates a level of honesty that may not be what it should.

Simple Googling will take you to the articles you need. None indicate wrongdoing, because he hasn't broken the law, but there are and have been persistent questions about his judgment.

[TwilightGardener]

45. I don't hero-worship, I don't think Obama is a saint or an angel. I simply

believe he's ethical for a highly ambitious politician, compared to other ambitious politicians. He doesn't have a "halo" to me, I just think he's a very decent man with good motives that has made the occasional mistake in his career. Oh well. But again, we don't want to go down the "judgment" road in comparing Hillary's political career (including her time as First Lady) to Obama's. Because there's some truly iffy/ethics-challenged stuff there. And I don't want to use DU to hurt the possible Dem nominee by listing it all. So I won't.

[ccpup]

46. what's important about this time looking into Obama's history

is that it gives his campaign the opportunity -- if they so wish -- to prepare rapid-fire answers that can't be disproven when faced with the inevitable questions.

They can either see it as an opportunity to get on their game before the repugs get him in November (if he's the Nominee), or they can ignore the reality that these will be made into issues for the American Voter to learn about and, perhaps, influence their decision on whether or not to vote for him.

[zulchzulu]

38. Obama's statement today on Rezko

"My relationship is he was somebody who I knew and had been a supporter for many years, he was somebody who had supported a wide range of candidates all throughout Illinois," the Democratic presidential candidate said in an interview with CBS' "Early Show." "Nobody had an inkling that he was involved in any problems. When those problems were discovered, we returned money from him that had been contributed."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080123/ap_on_el_pr/obama

[ccpup]

40. "Nobody had an inkling that he was involved in any problems." - Obama

"Everybody in this town knew that Tony Rezko was headed for trouble," said Jay Stewart of the Better Government Assn. in Chicago. "When he got indicted, there wasn't a single insider who was surprised. It was viewed as a long time coming. . . . Why would you be having anything to do with Tony Rezko, particularly if you're planning to run for president?"

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-rezko23jan23,1,392172.story?page=1&ctrack=5%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fla-na-rezko23jan23%2C1%2C392172.story%3Fpage%3D2&ctrack=5http%3A%2F%2F&cset=true&cset=true

[RaleighNCDUer]

47. Shall we parse that a bit?

"Everybody knew". Doubtful. Maybe a lot knew, but no doubt a lot did not know. The opening statement is a sweeping generalization, therefore worthlsess.

"...there wasn't a single insider who was surprised." What qualifies as an insider? Was Obama an insider? He was a politician and grassroots organizer, not a real-estate insider. He could know a lot about his own milieu and still be an outsider in the circles that were not surprised by Rezko.

"Why would you be having anything to do with Tony Rezko, particularly if you're planning to run for president?" Wasn't this ten years ago, when he was just transitioning from community organizer to state senator? He was not running for president, or even thinking about running for president, ten years ago.

This entire statement means nothing.

[ccpup]

50. nice try

consider the source of the statement and where it comes

Jay Stewart is Executive Director of the Better Government Association. He began his public affairs career at the U.S. Dept. of Commerce, serving as a member of the Congressional Rapid Response Team. He then joined the BGA as staff attorney and conducted public interest litigation, including lawsuits related to the BGA investigation of casino gambling and the "Licenses for Bribes" scandal.

Jay then spent a year as general counsel to Illinois Lt. Governor Pat Quinn, before returning to the BGA as its Executive Director.

http://www.illinoischannel.org/advisorycouncil.htm

[rodeodance]

54. Obama donates more money-----AP Jan, 20-2008,

Forum Name Hillary Clinton Supporters Group
Topic subject Obama donates money
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=334x766#778
778, Obama donates money
Posted by rodeodance on Tue Jan-22-08 02:18 PM


http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/749966,oside_012008.article

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/749966,oside_012008.article
Obama donates more money from contributors linked to Rezko

January 20, 2008

.............

''Recent public information has called into question contributions to the Obama campaign from a donor and fund-raiser,'' Obama spokesman Bill Burton said. ''It is the policy and practice of the campaign to review all such new information and dispose of questionable funds such as the potential illegal 'straw donations' that campaigns, like other presidential campaigns this cycle, must address as new facts emerge."

The decision to dispose of the money came after the Chicago Sun-Times reported on its Web site Saturday and in today's early edition that Obama is the unnamed ''political candidate'' mentioned in a prosecution document in the Rezko case as having received at least two tainted campaign contributions for his 2004 Senate race. Obama previously gave $44,000 in campaign contributions to charity.

The money his campaign said Saturday would be given away includes three $10,000 contributions from donors the campaign identified as having connections to Rezko: Michel Malek, Craig Morgan and Elie Maloof. Malek is a neurosurgeon who Rezko recommended for appointment to a state board involved with Rezko's alleged wrongdoing.

AP, Chris Fusco

[rodeodance]

53. ummmm...

"Nobody had an inkling that he was involved in any problems. When those problems were discovered, we returned money from him that had been contributed."

[madrchsod]

16. hillary and bill are perfection in every way....

----do not question ---you have to

[Hello_Kitty]

41. The Queen will be coronated, no matter how many peasants have to be crushed. nt

[AtomicKitten]

36. The skeletons are screaming to get out of the closet.

[zulchzulu]

71. I'm going to help open the door for them

[sandnsea]

39. Hsu, Trie, Chung, Paul

The list is long. Republicans will have a field day. And then there's Burkle, Chatwal, et al. This is just unbelievably stupid to be electing them.

[KennedyGuy]

68. and here I thoght Zulchies fascination with semen stains would keep her

occupied for the rest of the campaign..good to see she can investigate semen and listen to Rush at the same time...

[zulchzulu]

70. Frogbrains!

[mod mom]

69. WANG JUN-runs the Chinese Government's weapons manufacturing & involved in secret arms deals:

White House Had Ended System of Checking Foreign Guests

By TIM WEINER
Published: February 3, 1997

Ten years ago the Reagan White House adopted a rule about foreign businessmen, lobbyists and consultants who wanted to get in to see the President without the blessing of their embassies: they shouldn't.

But President Clinton's aides did not follow that rule. In their eagerness to raise campaign money, they invited friends of the President's fund-raisers -- including China's biggest arms merchant, favor-seeking Indonesian businessmen, a reputed Russian mobster and other dubiously credentialed dealmakers -- to meet with Mr. Clinton. Nor did the White House check the suitability of Americans invited by the Democratic National Committee to meet the President, allowing, among others, a twice-convicted felon to sip coffee with Mr. Clinton.

-snip

And that is why nobody on the White House political team saw fit to ask the National Security Council staff a year ago about a man named Wang Jun, who showed up on a guest list for a White House coffee with the President. The question of exactly how Mr. Wang got into the White House has a simple answer: ''Nobody ever asked anybody,'' a National Security Council official said.

So, at the behest of a tireless political fund-raiser from Arkansas, Charlie Yah Lin Trie, Mr. Clinton wound up sipping coffee with Mr. Wang, who runs the Chinese Government's weapons manufacturing and procuring agency, which is involved in secret arms deals around the world. These coffees for fund-raisers and donors began as a way to raise morale among party loyalists after the Democrats' disastrous showing in the 1994 election. By 1995, they became a way to reward big donors and prospect for new ones, according to Democratic fund-raisers.

-snip

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C01E2DC103DF930A35751C0A961958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all


A federal grand jury has indicted 14 people and a Georgia company in a scheme to smuggle several million dollars worth of automatic weapons into the United States from China. The indictment came after federal agents smashed an arms smuggling ring that they said involved two government-run Chinese munitions firms. The following press release and affidavit outline the building of the government's case.

U.S. Department of Justice

United States Attorney
Northern District of California

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

MAY 23, 1996

MASSIVE SEIZURE OF NEW AUTOMATIC WEAPONS
ILLEGALLY SMUGGLED BY PRC WEAPONS PRODUCERS

SAN FRANCISCO - Michael J. Yamaguchi, United States Attorney
for the Northern District of California; Rollin B. Klink, Special
Agent in Charge, United States Customs Service, San Francisco; and
Paul Snabel, Special Agent in Charge, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms, announced today the largest seizure of fully
operational automatic weapons in the history of U. S. law
enforcement. The weapons were illegally smuggled into the United
States from the People's Republic of China (PRC) during the course
of a federal investigation of an alleged arms trafficking conspiracy
involving Chinese nationals, Chinese resident aliens, and U. S.
citizens, a number of whom represented PRC owned and controlled
munitions manufacturing facilities. The illegal importation of the
weapons into the United States is in violation of the Presidential
Embargo on the importation of weapons and munitions designated on
the United States Munitions List, and U. S. law regarding the
importation, possession, and sale of illegal weapons.

On March 18, 1996, agents of the United States Customs Service
and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms seized 2000 AK-47
type fully automatic 7.62mm machine guns. These are military
assault weapons commonly used by the military around the world.
The weapons, which had both Chinese (Norinco) and Korean
markings, had been smuggled into the United States in a container on
board the COSCO ship, Empress Phoenix. Included with the
weapons were approximately 4000 30-40 round ammunition
magazines. It is estimated that the weapons had a street value of more
than four million dollars.

The seizure of the weapons was the culmination of a sixteen month
investigation of high ranking officials, based in both the United
States and the PRC, of POLYTECH and NORINCO, PRC
controlled munitions manufacturing corporations. Hammond KU,
age 49, a Taiwanese resident alien, residing in Soquel, California,
first came under suspicion when information was developed that he
had several thousand Chinese manufactured weapons, in crate.
labelled POLYTECH and NORINCO, stored in his warehouse in
Soquel, California. KU paid federal agent-, acting in an undercover
capacity, to illegally import into the United States, more than 20,000
AK 47 rifle bipods.

-snip
http://www.courttv.com/archive/legaldocs/misc/smuggle.html


New York Times, May 17, 1998



How Chinese Won Rights to Launch Satellites for U.S.

(BY JEFF GERTH AND DAVID E. SANGER)
On Oct. 9, 1995, Secretary of State Warren Christopher ended a lengthy debate within the Clinton Administration by initialing a classified order that preserved the State Department's sharp limits on China's ability to launch American-made satellites aboard Chinese rockets.

Both American industry and state-owned Chinese companies had been lobbying for years to get the satellites off what is known as the `munitions list,' the inventory of America's most sensitive military and intelligence-gathering technology. But Mr. Christopher sided with the Defense Department, the intelligence agencies and some of his own advisers, who noted that commercial satellites held technological secrets that could jeopardize `significant military and intelligence interests.'

There was one more reason not to ease the controls, they wrote in a classified memorandum. Doing so would `raise suspicions that we are trying to evade China sanctions' imposed when the country was caught shipping weapons technology abroad--which is what happened in 1991 and 1993 for missile sales to Pakistan.

-snip

Other powerful Chinese state enterprises also had multibillion-dollar stakes in getting access to American satellites. Among them was the China International Trade and Investment Corporation, whose chairman, Wang Jun, gained unwanted attention in the United States last year when it was revealed that he attended one of Mr. Clinton's campaign coffee meetings in the White House. The day of Mr. Wang's visit, Mr. Clinton, in what Mr. Rubin said was a coincidence, signed waivers allowing the Chinese to launch four American satellites--though they were unrelated to the business interests of China International Trade.

-snip

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/china/1998/h980618-prc5.htm

[zulchzulu]

72. Clinton ties with shady deals with China is bound to rise up again