Definition of "Shuck and Jive". It IS racist. Always.

[Barack_America]

And no democrat should say it, ever. It does not mean "bob and weave".

Here's a definition given on YahooAnswers that most of the blogs are currently referencing.

"To shuck and jive" originally referred to the intentionally misleading words and actions that African-Americans would employ in order to deceive racist Euro-Americans in power, both during the period of slavery and afterwards. The expression was documented as being in wide usage in the 1920s, but may have originated much earlier.

"Shucking and jiving" was a tactic of both survival and resistance. A slave, for instance, could say eagerly, "Oh, yes, Master," and have no real intention to obey. Or an African-American man could pretend to be working hard at a task he was ordered to do, but might put up this pretense only when under observation. Both would be instances of "doin' the old shuck 'n jive."

Today, the expression has expanded somewhat from earlier usage, and is now sometimes used to mean "talking pure baloney," "goofing off," or "goofing around." The original meaning of deceit often remains, however.
1 year ago
Source(s):
I teach some African-American Studies courses

----
Hopefully Hillary will do the right thing and speak out against this appalling comment by Andrew Cuomo, who is campaigning on her behalf.

[pennylane100]

1. I did not know that,

I always thought it was a survival tactic to use at work.

[DURHAM D]

2. And perhaps Obama will speak out about the appalling sexist

remarks from his guy Jesse Jackson, Jr.

[maddiejoan]

3. actually.

Shuck: To get rid of, ditch, throw away. To try to shed your true image in favor of a false one.
Jive: Trying to adopt a new social status, pretending to be "all that"

but it's usage by Cuomo to decribe Obama is racist in it's application of reminding folks that Obama is a black man --ya know --in case they forgot.

[BootinUp]

7. I forget occasionally, but DU'ers always

remind me. lol.

[DrFunkenstein]

4. Welcome to The Minstrel Show

[bunnies]

8. oh sure.

Now putting a white guy in black-face is racist? :sarcasm:

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

48. Good pic

not to mention historical background. It's those minstrel shows and the "Blackface" that are the origin of shuck and jive. Not exactly appropriate for today.

[FrenchieCat]

5. I'm sure that Mr. Cuomo knew exactly what he was talking about......

to believe that Andrew coincidently chose this phrase in speaking about Obama is to have a
willing suspension of disbelief. :eyes:

[Gormy Cuss]

20. Absolutely no doubt in my mind either.

He's a politician, son of a politician and ex-spouse of a politician's daughter. He knows exactly how "shuck and jive" will be interpreted.

[BootinUp]

6. How can you read that definition and say "It ALWAYS is racist"?

The mind boggles.

Today, the expression has expanded somewhat from earlier usage, and is now sometimes used to mean "talking pure baloney," "goofing off," or "goofing around." The original meaning of deceit often remains, however.

[Barack_America]

12. How can you read that definition and say it's not?

Using any term that originated during and was used to describe the conditions of slavery is racist. Period.

Similarily, could you tell me how describing someone as a "Nazi" could ever be complementary?

[BootinUp]

15. Clearly the definition you posted

says otherwise.

However I would agree that his use of the phrase was inappropriate and not politically correct.

[Elidor]

16. Your own post above shows that it's not as cut and dried as you make it out to be

But don't let that stop you from savoring that righteous indignation.

[Barack_America]

18. Please explain. n/t

[Forrest Greene]

23. Using any term that originated during and was used to describe the conditions of slavery is racist.

Wotta crock.

[Barack_America]

28. How so?

Seriously. Are you in the habit of calling black men "boy"? Why are some terms from slavery unthinkable and others okay? I would suggest that none of them are okay.

[Forrest Greene]

76. Absolute Statements

...such as the one cited, are _always_ a crock. Period.

[fightindonkey]

32. Nope. Next Posting.

[alcibiades_mystery]

17. Notice that it NEVER means "bobbing and weaving"

Cuomo's putative synonym.

Just sayin...

[Captain Hilts]

9. I know it as "shuffling and jiving." Yes, it is racist. nt

[shain from kane]

10. I've heard it used in the context of a football game to describe a particularly

tricky maneuver by a runner.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

11. Yes

Shuck and jive is about as elementally racist an attack as it gets, and it's like the n-word-- used for racist reasons only, by those with racist intentions (even if temporarily in an unedited comment).

[readmoreoften]

13. Of course it's racist.

But Hillary won't speak out against what her supporters say anymore than Barack Obama has spoken out on the outrageous things his supporters say.

[Essene]

14. Why this implies racism, regardless of the intention

The words themselves do not have to be either explicitly "racist," or even be intended for harm, in order for statements to imply racism. This can be confusing when charges fly about "racism."

Racism isn't merely a question of bad intention.

It's the look in a child's eye when they hear somebody subtly implying the world doesn't offer them the same hopes and dreams as another child because of her skin color. It's the unspoken historical weight carried by many of our words, our arguments and our delusions of a real meritocracy.

It's the power structure that subconsciously allows an Attorney General for the State of New York to say something so incredibly insensitive and directed at black candidate for President of the United States.

Cuomo is likely to state he meant no harm and poorly picked his words. Mea culpa.

Clinton will have operatives deflecting any ties to her campaign. She may herself comment on his bad choice of words... but the truth is... what he said is PRECISELY the message she's been conveying to the voters.

She says he offers false hope.
She says he's no MLK.
She says civil rights needed a (white) President, not just dreams and speeches.
She says he's a talker, not a doer.
She claims he's a fairy tale.
She claims he has no substance.

Imagine a Republican saying she's just a "hysterical," emotional candidate without substance. That she's a fake feminist and that the empowerment of women came from strong white men, anyways. That she's never done anything, just riding her husband's coattails. That she offers impractical, hysterical ideas for america. That she's trying to use her gender to get her husband into the White House again.

Now imagine folks here having a hard time deciding if that's a smear campaign and sexist.

[snagglepuss]

38. Your post reminds me of a ludicrous incident at work. For a summer potluck at work

I lugged in a huge watermelon, my absolutely favourite food. In the summer I eat watermelon everyday, I can't get enough. And to say I lugged it is no overstatement since I take public transit and that was one heavy melon. It was a pain to lug it in but I thought it'd be something everyone would enjoy and I knew no one else would bother lugging a watermelon. Anyway a black co-worker sees my melon and angrily confronted me. She accused me of bringing in the watermelon because I think its the only thing that blacks eat besides chicken!"

I was floored. This woman had no idea of my background. If she did she would have been floored.

People are just way too quick to take offense and imo your post encourages that attitude. Jane Austen's advice "to not take offense when none is intended" is the way to live.

[Recursion]

67. If a computer randomly generates the phrase from a dictionary, is it racist? n/t

[redqueen]

19. Whatever... read your own frickin source:

"Today, the expression has expanded somewhat from earlier usage, and is now sometimes used to mean "talking pure baloney," "goofing off," or "goofing around." The original meaning of deceit often remains, however."


Theres's a restaurant here called Shuck N Jive. Yes, the phrase is racist in origin. But to say it's always racist no matter who says it or what the context IT'S RACIST RACIST RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACIST! is just silly.



Clarification for anyone reading my post here as a "defense" of Cuomo... NO it is not. I'm simply reacting to the aboslute in the OP.

[Barack_America]

21. "The original meaning of deceit often remains"

So, if you were a politician, and presumably intelligent, would you EVER use this word in a public forum?

Quite possibly, Cuomo wasn't aware of the true meaning of this phrase. Is acceptable or more damning?

[redqueen]

24. That's what he was trying to say... you can't get away with lying so easily.

[Barack_America]

26. But why, oh God why would you use a phrase rooted in slavery...

...if you're not trying to offend? You've got to know what you're saying! Which is why I believe he must have known what he was saying, and intended to say it (even at a subconscious level)

[redqueen]

29. deleted

this "but what if" stuff is meaningless.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

75. and in Jim Crow, for that matter

the worst kinds of associations.

[Barack_America]

22. At the very best, using this term suggests that Cuomo...

Is completely out of touch with and/or doesn't give a shit about black voters. Is that someone Hillary wants campaigning for her? Is that the sentiment she wants associated with her campaign? I should hope not.

There's no excuse for a politician accidently saying a phrase that is potentially racist. You should be trying to represent everyone. You should know what you're saying.

[kwassa]

25. To use it as a description of Obama is racist. The intent is to call attention to his race.

and why is Cuomo doing that?

[fightindonkey]

33. How The Hell Do You Know What His Intent Was. Sounds Like He Was Calling Him Mr. Casanova To Me

[kwassa]

39. what does "shuckin' and jivin" have to do with Casanova??????

[FredScuttle]

27. Sigh....yet another debate I never thought I'd see on DU

"Shuck n' jive - awful racist terminology or misunderstood phrase?"

[Barack_America]

30. ???

Is that because you think it is a worthless discussion, politically speaking, or that "shuck n' jive" is obviously racist?

I'm confused.

[FredScuttle]

35. Not worthless, just sad that there's still a question if its racist.

I agree with your OP completely. It's a obvious racist phrase and I'm surprised Cuomo uttered it. Its use here is indefensible.

[Barack_America]

36. That's what I thought and I agree. Have you seen the Hillary=Bush in a Dress

Poll? Don't look if you don't want to be depressed. Who are these "democrats" of today?

[fightindonkey]

31. It Means "Talking Pure Baloney", "Goofing Off", "Goofing Around" TODAY!

Get over yourself.

[kwassa]

40. Try again.

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/hillary_supporter_andrew_cuomo_on_her_nh_win_you_cant_shuck_and_jive_w_press_corps.php

During an appearance yesterday on talk radio — at almost the same time as Obama co-chair Jesse Jackson Jr. questioned Hillary's tears — New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo used some words with a very troublesome racial history, apparently in reference to Barack Obama.

"It's not a TV crazed race. Frankly you can't buy your way into it," Cuomo said, according to Albany Times Union reporter Rick Karlin. He then added, "You can't shuck and jive at a press conference. All those moves you can make with the press don't work when you're in someone's living room."

According to Joan Houston Hall's Dictionary of American Regional English, the phrase "shuck and jive" means, "To be deceptive or evasive; to tell tall tales or lies; to fool around. esp freq among Black speakers," and "stalling or obfuscating, especially to avoid having to admit that you did not know something or were trying to divert someone's attention."

[slackmaster]

34. I guess the (white) people in SC who explained it as eating oysters and bullshitting were mistaken

:shrug:

(Or just bullshitting me, which seems to be a regional pastime in the Southeast.)

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nealmhughes]

41. I would not put too much faith in Yahoo Answers for scholarly sourcing.

Actually, I have never seen it in the ex-slave narratives,and I have read every volume of them in every edition. Now the phrase may have been edited out, but it strikes me odd never to recall such a phrase.

The "shuck and jive" as a synonym for what Eugene Genovese might term "passive resistance," such as "taking v. stealing" or breaking hoes or traces for the draft mules to slow down work is well documented as an attempt to "get back" to masters.

We might also go to Kenneth Stampp for his characterization of various "types" of slaves, one of them was the "Sambo" who feigned ignorance at all times when in a white's presence.

The phrase itself appears to have been African American slang, and I offer what the EOD has to say on the word "jive." Shuck is obvious: the hulls or husks of a foodstuff, or the act of removing such.

It would appear that the word jive itself was a Harlem Renaissance jazz term first, cited in 1921 by Louis Armstrong in a record title.

Here is what the OED has to say on jive as a verb:

"1. a. trans. To mislead, to deceive, to ‘kid’; to taunt or sneer at. Also intr., to talk jive, to talk nonsense, to act foolishly.
1928 L. ARMSTRONG (title of gramophone record) Don't jive me. 1929 W. THURMAN Blacker the Berry 128 But I jived her along, so she ditched him, and gave me her address. 1934 Amer. Speech IX. 26/2 Gieve.., to mislead with words; to take into one's confidence. Ibid. 27/1 Jive, see gieve. 1938 Ibid. XIII. 317/1 To jive around,..‘to fool around’. 1939 J. DOLLARD in A. Dundes Mother Wit (1973) 281/2 Willy kept ‘jiving’ him until Jimmy finally left. 1944 D. BURLEY Orig. Handbk. Harlem Jive 71 Jive is a distortion of that staid, old respectable English word ‘jibe’... In the sense in which it came into use among Negroes in Chicago about the year 1921, it meant to taunt, to scoff, to sneer. Ibid., A highly effective manner of talking about each other's ancestors and hereditary traits..called ‘Jiving’ someone. 1946 MEZZROW & WOLFE Really Blues vi. 70 Monkey wasn't jiving about that bartender. 1950 A. LOMAX Mr. Jelly Roll (1952) iv. 170, I..jived the expressman to hank my trunks to the station by telling him my money was uptown. 1969 J. MCPHERSON in A. Chapman New Black Voices (1972) 162, I don't need no money. Nobody's jiving me. I'm jiving them. You know I can still pull in a hundred in tips in one trip . 1973 Black World Mar. 57 Lawd, don't jive Miz Jackson,..Ride on King Jesus!

b. intr. To make sense; to fit in. U.S. Cf. JIBE v.
1943 Amer. Speech XVIII. 153/2 Doesn't jive, doesn't make sense. 1955 W. GADDIS Recognitions II. i. 308 His analyst says he's in love with her for all the neurotic reasons in the book. It don't jive, man. 1973 To our Returned Prisoners of War (Office of U.S. Secretary of Defense) 7 Jive, verb meaning fit in, go with, to make sense.

2. intr. a. To play ‘jive’ (JIVE n. 2a).
c1938 N. E. WILLIAMS His Hi De Highness of Ho De Ho 35/2 ‘Jiving’, meaning to improvise. 1942 BERREY & VAN DEN BARK Amer. Thes. Slang §579/9 Play ‘hot jazz’; ‘swing’,..jive. 1947 AUDEN Age of Anxiety (1948) ii. 44 The juke-box jives rejoicing madly.

b. To dance the ‘jive’ (JIVE n. 2b).
1939 San Francisco News Let. 1 Sept. 12/2 If you should dance to the rhythms of either gentleman you will be jiving. 1957 Observer 13 Oct. 3/4 Young people from the East End and the West End came there to jive or listen. 1958 New Statesman 4 Jan. 10/2 A couple began a little hesitantly to jive.

Hence {sm}jiver, one who jives; {sm}jiving vbl. n. and ppl. a.
1936 N.Y. World-Telegram 6 Oct. 16/1 High jiving{em}tall, if you know what I mean, talk. c1938 . 1939 BLIND BOY FULLER (song title) Jivin' Big Bill Blues. 1939 San Francisco Examiner 18 Aug. 3 (heading) Jiving deluxe. 1943 N.Y. Times 9 May II. 5/7 I'm a jivin jitter~bug. 1943 Gramophone Aug. 47/2 Lawd, don't cut out ‘Jazz’! I'll write you as many letters as Robert Mackenzie likes, but..don't forget the ‘jiver’, sir, don't forget the ‘jiver’! 1944 S. J. PERELMAN Crazy like Fox (1945) 163 A jiving, hot-hosing jitterbug. 1947 M. H. BOULWARE Jive & Slang of Students in Negro Colleges, Jiver,..a flatterer. 1951 ‘A. GARVE’ Murder in Moscow iii. 46 Her daughter..had won a prize for jiving at some South London palais. 1959 Spectator 12 June 856/1 One..finds the jazz virtuoso Stephane Grapelly performing to an admiring crowd of jivers. 1973 Black World Mar. 85 Jiving, bopping, napping, signifying, sounding{em}all modes of Afro-American expression{em}seek to affirm the vitality of the Black American experience. Ibid. May 84/1 He comes down hard on white racists, but he also attacks Black ‘jivers’ who seek to exploit their brethren under the guise of Blackness."

Frankly, it seems to be African-American slang and not racist per se. Now we all know that the context of a word or phrase is everything. I would not use shuck and jive, myself. But I have used lots of Black slang when teaching African-American students. They are frankly amazed to hear "po-po" or other such as "case dollar" coming out of my mouth!

I didn't sit thru 3 years of sheer hellish African American history seminars in grad school for nuttin'! The seminars, not the reading or the research! We were divided into Oakes v. Stampp v. Genovese camps. I chose Oakes and Joyner!

[Barack_America]

42. It's not my first choice either, but I couldn't find anything about "Shuck n Jive"

...in the OED. And that reference is what the blogs were going with, as I stated.

Thanks for pointing out that context is important. I agree, but I would suggest that with these phrases, the racist implication may always be there. I certainly feel that it is foolish and irresponsible for politicians to use such phrases.

[nealmhughes]

45. I think that is because it the first hit on Google!

I read the Yahoo Answers and wasn't satisfied with it. It obviously did not originate in slavery times, unless it was unrecorded or lost.

I think that people are conflating Genovese's "passive resistance" and Stampp's "Sambo" routine for the phrase. That's really sad, in a way. But it is short and sweet and fills a void that is there in the lexicon.

I think that the similariy to "buck and wing" for a minstrel dance is one thing that might contribute to the conflation.

Would I use it? No, I'm not a Harlem or Greenwich Village hipster from the first 2/3 of the 20th century!

I think the fact that it was in the dictionary of black college slang is very interesting. I've never heard of that work before, but want one! Cab Calloway's hipster dictionary is on line, though, all you swinging cats and tough frails!

[muriel_volestrangler]

56. OED entry on 'shucking and jiving':

(please excuse the N word in the title of one of the citations)

b. shucking and jiving: fooling. Cf. JIVE v. 1a. U.S. Blacks.

(1966 E. BULLINS Theme is Blackness (1973) 27 Yawhl jivin'...yawhl shuckin'.) 1969 H. R. BROWN Die Nigger Die! ii. 25, I told him he should think about it, but I knew I was schuckin' and jivin'. 1974 H. L. FOSTER Ribbin', Jivin', & Playin' Dozens v. 195 For many blacks, shuckin' and jivin' is a survival technique to avoid and stay out of trouble.

I'd have thought this doesn't mean it's always racist; it would depend on the context.

[Anouka]

43. Not even black Americans?

I'm sorry. I can't be down with that. Please don't take black American speech away from Black Americans.

Anybody else, that's more fair, because that goes into 'code word' territory.

But not from black Americans.

[Barack_America]

49. Noted. n/t

[David Zephyr]

44. Of course it is. I can't believe the AG of NY might get away with this shit.

Thanks for not letting this slip away, Kristi1696. It is vile.

HI intend to keep this alive until Andrew issues an apology. It is an outrage.

[Chovexani]

46. This thread is completely depressing.

Of course it would become yet another "why can't you damn sensitive darkies let us use our racist code words" thread.

I fucking hate DU sometimes.

[AspenRose]

51. Hey, better leave that tar baby alone, Chovexani.

:sarcasm:

:banghead: :nuke:

[Karenina]

53. Now THAT should get you a DUZY!!!

:rofl:

[Chovexani]

54. Co-signed!

:rofl:

[incapsulated]

57. This darkie says it's bullshit

READ THE SOURCE

UPDATE: Though the report I link refers specifically to New Hampshire, Cuomo called to play the tape of the interview, in which he says nice things about Obama, and in which the quote above is describing both Iowa and New Hampshire — meaning it's not a direct reference to Clinton's primary victory, or attempt to explain it — that is, he's talking about the primary process in general, not Obama in particular.

"Barack Obama is a beautiful symbol. He's a powerful speaker. He's a charismatic figure. And what he has to say is important for the Democrats," Cuomo says in the interview, with the New York Post's Fred Dicker.

"It was never about Obama in the first place," Cuomo told me of the use of the phrase, which he said he was using "as a synonym for 'bob and weave.'"

[Barack_America]

59. "Barack Obama is a beautiful symbol"

And what do you think about this? Barack Obama a "beautiful symbol", just like when Hillary basically called MLK a "beautiful symbol" but noted that it took a "President" to get things done.

So, "beautiful symbols" can't be elected President? Is that the takehome message here?

[incapsulated]

60. That's what he has made *himself*

Why, just today, his own co-chair described Hillary as having "Democrats Disease" too concerned with "issues" and "fighting against" things.

It seems he *wants* to be all about symbolism and rhetoric and put out the message that fighting for issues is like a disease.

The heroes in the black community were ALL ABOUT ISSUES AND FIGHTING.

Not making up with republicans and holding hands around the campfire.

And when Obama apologizes for Donnie, she can apologize for Andrew. Fair?

[Barack_America]

61. "I'll spank mine if you spank yours"

That's a suggestion for Obama and Clinton that I read in a comment on one of the blogs. That's sounds about right to me.

[Chovexani]

63. And this darkie says you're missing the point.

I read the source, and it's irrelevant. I'm talking big picture here, about the way these things are discussed on DU. I don't know if you've noticed or not, but there's been a long, disgusting pattern of people denying racial undertones of words and phrases on here, and basically behaving like dicks when they're called on it in the name of preserving privilege.

But here's a lesson for the others: we don't all think alike! :wow:

[Barack_America]

66. "we don't all think alike"

Wait what? You don't? Shit, that's really going to fuck up the polls. Just like these fucking women have done.

:sarcasm:

[CyberPieHole]

47. Maybe Obama will apologize for the homophobe McClurkin and we can all hold hands....

...and teach the world to sing.

[spooky3]

50. Yes, it is. Very inappropriate statement by Cuomo.

[RufusTFirefly]

52. Cuomo wouldn't use "jewed" would he?

Of course not. Even though its definition is "bargained shrewdly" or "haggled with."

"Shuck and jive" may also mean "talking pure baloney", just as "jewed" can also mean "haggled with," but both are totally racist.

Cuomo knew exactly what he was doing. Despicable.

[Igel]

55. The problem is knowledge.

"To jew", like "to gip", has been the object of numerous "consciousness raising" campaigns--saying that even if you don't know a word is racist, you certainly know it anyway and mean it as racist because somebody else thinks it's racist or knows that it was racist at one time. One of the more anti-linguistic opinions I've heard, although I have heard it from tenured faculty.

I haven't heard such a campaign waged for "shuck and jive". In fact, until I read the OP I wouldn't have thought it racist. It brings African-Americans and Southerners to mind, not because of its origins, but because I've almost only ever heard AAs and, to a lesser extent, white Southerners use the phrase. Didn't know its origins, and don't find that a word's origins or etymology has any bearing on contemporary usage. We don't carry a word's past in our heads, it's not something we generally learn.

And these days when I hear a word used in a way that I didn't know, or in a way that *might* be offensive to me, I stop and wonder if the problem lies with me or with the other person. More often than not, I've been embarrassed and found either that my knowledge of English isn't the end-all and be-all of English lexicography or that my offense at a word when none is meant shows simple Pavlovian conditioning and(/or) ill-will.

[Chovexani]

64. The problem is that NO ONE EVER LISTENS.

You can "consciousness raise" till the cows come home, and all it boils down to is "PC gone amok, you have no right to tell us to stop using the words, even if you think it's offensive, it's not, STFU you oversensitive minorities". Not only do they not understand that certain expressions have baggage, they really don't give a shit, because it's all about their "free speech" and damn anyone who gets hurt by it.

Every. Single. Fucking. Time. It doesn't matter what the minority is or what the term is. Shit, there's well-meaning people here who still don't understand that "sexual preference" is offensive, after countless explanations from LGBT people.

And don't get me started on "gyp". I've given up on that one, considering there's a good number of people who think Roma rank up there with unicorns and faeries in terms of being real.

[LittleBlue]

65. I'm in my early 20's

I knew it is racist. Especially jive.

Cuomo has had a bazillion times more money spent on his education in New Yawk. The results are appalling, or he knew and did it purposefully.

[Barack_America]

68. Exactly. He's a politician. He knows how to filter what he says.

This was no slip of the tongue. He meant it.

[Barack_America]

58. Whatever. The "beautiful symbol" comment was much, much worse...

And totally in-line with the Clinton stance that a black man can't get elected.

[depakid]

62. Hogwash -people use that phrase all the time these days

without any racist connotations whatsoever.

Obama supporters would do well to recognize that these sorts of PC deals have a way of backfiring.

[FredScuttle]

74. Use the phrase "shuck n' jive" on 110th street in NYC and see how far you get with that bullshit

n/t

[Infinite Hope]

69. When did Cuomo use it? (Not doubting, just asking as I hadn't heard). n/t

[Barack_America]

72. This article has a good history of the incident...LINK

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/politics/ny-uscuom0111,0,5229216.story

[EffieBlack]

70. "Shuck and Jive" is unqualifiedly racist. n/t

[Bonobo]

71. Fucking thank you! I couldn't believe the assholes that were trying to explain that one!

[Dob Bole]

73. Like John the Conqueror?

In that context, it could be a compliment. But I have no idea what's going on or what we're talking about, because I just logged in.