The tables turn

[Onlooker]

For days, this board was ridiculously pro-Obama, and now it's going to the other extreme. I'm for Obama, but only marginally over Clinton or Edwards. I think Obama is the true liberal of the group until you get down to Kucinich. I think Obama is an idealist who has a vision that most of us share. I think he represents a more profound and philosophical approach to governing. With him being from Illinois, being part black, and having credentials similar to those of Lincoln, he's an incredible symbol of the ideals that Lincoln stood for. He doesn't deserve the kind of abuse some people are giving him, just as Clinton and Edwards don't deserve it. In this cynical election, he, like the others, plays the game, but his vision is quite profound, and if he should win the nomination, he'll have to use his charisma and eloquence to explain his liberal voting record, something I think he could do successfully.

[Iris]

1. I'm curious... why do you think he's the true liberal?

I'm not being snarky, I'd just like an example or two b/c I'm still not sure how I feel about him.

[jenmito]

6. self-delete

better link posted below.

[Onlooker]

7. There are many examples

He's made liberal votes vis-a-vis the Iraq War, partial birth abortion, Patriot Act wiretapping, capital gains tax cuts, and I'm sure there are many more issues where he's voted progressively.

Also, check this out:

http://votesmart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=9490

Don't get me wrong. He's a mainstream candidate whose trying to position himself for victory. He's no Kucinich, but he's really quite liberal.

[Iris]

14. thanks. I'll check it out. n/t

[ClarkUSA]

8. National Journal analysis: Their "lifetime" voting records show Obama is more liberal than Kucinich

Obama is also the most liberal of all the Dem Senators running for president. For more information, take a look at National Journal's Senate
Composite Scores: http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib_cons.htm?o1=lib_composite&o2=desc

National Journal has interesting findings in a recent analysis of votes by all the members of Congress who are running for president. The study,
released in March of this year by the National Journal, a respected inside-the-Beltway research report, will help voters cut through the spin and
hype of misleading 527 ads, "fair and balanced" partisan bloggers, TV sound bites, and campaign commercials.

Unlike TV commercials that focus on a single vote, these rankings are based on comprehensive voting records. The 2006 scores, for example,
were based on as many as 95 votes on such issues as federal spending, tax cuts, the war in Iraq, embryonic stem-cell research and border
security.

On the Democratic side, the analysis of “lifetime” voting records shows Obama as the most liberal with a score of 84.3. The most liberal score
possible was 99. The lifetime liberal scores for the other Democrats:

Kucinich, 79.4
Sen. Christopher Dodd of Connecticut, 79.2
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, 78.8
Sen. Joseph Biden of Delaware, 76.8

For more on the National Journal scorecard, go here: http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/
And here: http://www.popmatters.com/pm/news/article/32046/obama-more-liberal-than-kucinich-analysis-reveals

The rankings differ if you look only at their 2006 scores. That year Kucinich edged Obama by only one point as the most liberal while Hillary
Clinton was the least liberal, which is no surprise to any of us.

For those of you who like to look at graphs, here's a statistical map of the National Journal data:

The location of presidential hopefuls will be of interest, as will that of Joe Lieberman (9th most conservative among Dems) followed by a
not-so-distant Hillary Clinton at 13th most conservative (32nd most liberal), only 4 spots to the left of Lieberman. By contrast Barack
Obama ranks as the 10th most liberal Democrat (35th most conservative). The other two current Senators are Chris Dodd (CT) at 17th
most liberal (28th most conservative) and Joe Biden (DE) at 24th most liberal (21st most conservative).

http://politicalarithmetik.blogspot.com/2007/03/national-journal-2006.html

[FreeState]

13. Not by the compass

[DemKR]

2. Can I ask which part makes Obama the real liberal?

1.) "Nobody does it better than Joe Lieberman"
2.) "Good decent moral" people who oppose gays..(what about blacks, Jews?)
3.) Not giving health care to 15,000,000 who are already uninsured
4.) Ted Kennedy being "Spineless" ???


Which part indicates that he is a remote liberal?

[Iris]

5. thanks for answering my question!

n/t

[TeamJordan23]

9. Maybe he should support wars that kill thousands of innocent people.

Like your candidate.

[sniffa]

10. yeah, that will show how tough as nails he is

:thumbsup:

[Onlooker]

11. Oh, come on

He's a mainstream candidate, like Edwards and Clinton, but within that group he's certainly the liberal (though Edwards has come around). In order to run for President, he needed to demonstrate loyalty to the party, thus he backed Lieberman in the primary and he used the same type of rhetoric with regard to gays that Dean used with regard to people who fly the Confederate flag.

The health care argument is just politics as usual. Neither of them of being precise, spinning their plans and contrasting their plans in ways that are favorable to them. That's the cynical nature of politics.

http://www.factcheck.org/clinton_vs_obama.html

And the fact that he told Ted Kennedy to show a little more spine is because Ted Kennedy as of late is more and more willing to work with Lieberman, John McCain, Orin Hatch, and other awful people.

[ClarkUSA]

12. Where did you get the 15M "uninsured" number from? Prove it.

Also, has Hillary fired her two homophobic SC co-chairmen yet?

Here's Bill Clinton endorsing Lieberman in 2006, saying of Joementum,"He's been a good Democrat, he's a good man and he'll do you proud."
YouTube link of Clinton rally for Lieberman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rr_n6EL5MA

And of course, Hillary voted for IWR and Kyl-Lieberman, just like Joe did because they are birds of a feather!

[peoli]

3. Obama more liberal than Kucinich, analysis reveals

WASHINGTON—The most liberal member of Congress running for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination isn’t Rep. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio.

It’s Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois.


Unlike TV commercials that focus on a single vote, these rankings are based on comprehensive voting records. The 2006 scores, for example, were based on as many as 95 votes on such issues as federal spending, tax cuts, the war in Iraq, embryonic stem-cell research and border security.

Read on...

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/news/article/32046/obama-more-liberal-than-kucinich-analysis-reveals/

[MadBadger]

4. Um this board has always been Pro-Edwards

Always.

[Perry Logan]

15. Obama is toast.