In the Illinois legislature, voting "present" is equivalent to voting "no"

[calteacherguy]

This is because for legislation to pass, a majority of all legislators must vote yes, not just a majority of those voting. So, in practical terms, voting "present" is equivalent to voting no on a piece of legislation.

So tell me what the issue is here, again???

[MonkeyFunk]

1. The issue

is that it's seen as cowardice.

[calteacherguy]

2. How??? nt

[MonkeyFunk]

4. by refusing to take a stand

If he opposes a bill, he should vote no.

You can't seriously believe that voting "Present" is a courageous stand?

[calteacherguy]

6. As I explained in the OP, voting "present" has the same effect as voting "no"

what about that don't you get?

How can you say it's "refusing to take a stand" when the effect is to help defeat the legislation to the same extent a "no" vote would? Your logic stinks!

[MonkeyFunk]

7. Nonetheless

it's seen as a wishy-washy dodge.

Now I LIKE Obama - and I don't think this is a huge issue - but it is a small one.

The Illinois legislature is no different from any other body - voting Present is seen, rightly, as refusing to take a stand.

He can't say he opposed a bill if he didn't vote no on it.

[calteacherguy]

9. Planned Parenthood and logic disagree with you.

Legislation passes if a majority vote yes. Anything other than a yes is equivalent to a no.

He didn't do it to cover his ass. He was in a safe district. He did it to help progressive causes, and work with other Democrats in the legislature who weren't in such safe districts.

[MonkeyFunk]

11. You can spin it any way you like

but the fact remains, it looks weak.

[calteacherguy]

12. What spin?

Planned Parenthood asked him to vote "present." How is that spin?

[MonkeyFunk]

13. the spin

is in trying to present it as a principled position.

[Quixote1818]

3. Well, it's a way to vote no and cover your ass at the same time

Normally that would be a smart move but it looks like it backfired on him.

[calteacherguy]

5. It makes a statement, just like any vote makes a statement.

How can that be interpreted as "cowardice?" Many things are in shades of gray. It's dangerous to always see things with a yes/no mentality.

[FlyingSquirrel]

8. The issue is this:

Wishywashy wishywashy flipflop lazy weak never makes a stand wishywashy weak lazy

At least that's what Rove told me. I have to believe it 'cause he said it a thousand times.

[calteacherguy]

10. The concept that voting "present" has the effect of a "no" vote

is not difficult to understand. It's not as if Obama is the only legislator to do this. They all do, and there is nothing wrong with it.

Choices are good. Three choices are better than two.

[dkf]

14. I wish Hillary Clinton had voted "present" on the IWR

Instead she was tricked by George W. Bush. Now THAT is weak.

[Bitwit1234]

15. HELL forget about the Illinois senate and look at the voting record

in the US senate....he has not voted on 150 of the bills JUST THIS YEAR.

[Perry Logan]

16. It's like this: if Hillary had done it, it would be a fucking big deal.