Hillary's Howard Dean Moment

[MadBadger]

I havent really posted negative articles about Hillary, instead of posting good things about Obama, but the Hillary campaign, and certain people here at DU have just gotten me so worked up, that I just dont care anymore.

Joe Vogel
Huffington Post

In spite of her reported intense preparation for the final Democratic debate before the January Iowa Caucuses, Hillary Clinton may have experienced her "Howard Dean moment" with a bizarre, forced cackle when Barack Obama was asked how he could create change with former Clinton advisors now working on his foreign policy team.


"I'm looking forward to hearing that," Hillary blurted, as she continued to laugh at the question.

According to the Associated Press, Obama deftly "waited for the laughter to die down before saying, 'Hillary, I'm looking forward to you advising me as well,'" as the audience roared with laughter.

Click here to watch the clip: http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1336738011?bctid=1342091776


In a rather mundane debate, this could likely be the clip that symbolizes the major difference between Senator Clinton and Senator Obama. It reinforces Hillary as calculating, unnatural, and disconnected, and Obama as confident, comfortable in his own skin, and perhaps most importantly, a winner.

The strange burst of unprovoked laughter reminded viewers of Hillary's seemingly strategic "laugh track" performance in late September (parodied brilliantly by Jon Stewart in this Daily Show clip:http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=103274&title=hillarys-laugh-track ) as she made the rounds on all the major networks, discussing her new health care plan. That moment signaled the beginning of a consistent decline in the polls that could dip even more after this latest gaffe.

There was the Al Gore "sigh" and the Howard Dean "scream." Now there is the Hillary "cackle." These moments certainly shouldn't be the deciding factor in an election, but they often bring to the surface deeper and more substantive concerns voters have about a candidate.

In Hillary's case the concern is clear: Do Americans want a president so calculating and poll-driven that even laughing is a strategy?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-vogel/hillarys-howard-dean-mom_b_76752.html

[AX10]

1. What BS! Hillary has been the center of attacks on DU...

from day 1!

[Stephanie]

2. This is from Huffington Post

It has nothing to do with DU.

[Kucinich4America]

3. So was Dean.

And as a Clarkie, you know that better than most. ;)

Not that I'm defending Hillary.... she and her supporters actually deserve it.

However, comparing Hillary to Dean is an insult to the good doctor.

[Cha]

19. Thanks! I agree!

Writers do like to draw their parallels even if they aren't in depth.

The m$$$$$$m made sure Dean didn't go anywhere after losing Iowa and the rallying speech with his supporters.

I didn't watch the debate so I don't know how definitive it was with hillary. I remember reading Al Gore's "sigh" was suggested by paul begala and he probably would have been better off not doing that with the rolling of his eyes and I think Gore would agree.

Haven't there been any fookin' repukes that got burned on the "moment"..besides pappy saying "Read My Lips"?

[Drunken Irishman]

22. I agree, plus, Dean's scream wasn't really a scream at all.

It was played that way by the media, but in reality, was nothing more than Gov. Dean trying to talk over the crowd, which was reaching insane noise.

You can't compare the two.

[evlbstrd]

5. Oh, crap.

The fact is that there are a lot of us who don't trust her and never have. It's not a concerted effort.

[Cha]

29. They must know that..

it's all about being "victims".

[evlbstrd]

50. You can almost smell it.

It stinks.

[Joe the Revelator]

6. Huh?

The tone of team hilliary is really getting weird.

[sandnsea]

18. P-O-L-I-C-Y

What is it about attacking her policy that you guys don't understand.

[Cha]

27. hillary earned it from the day

in history, October 11, 2002..and it just got worse.

[MaraJade]

33. I agree. . .

The simple fact is that misogynism is so prevalent in the United States that people are simply not ready
for a Woman as President.

In the US women are viewed primarily as sexual objects. Women in this nation are NOT taken seriously. When
a woman with drive or ambition comes along, one who does not "gaze adoringly at her man," she is marked as a
"heartless and ambitious bitch," someone without "female nurturing instincts," something unnatural. HOW DARE SHE
be intelligent, articulate and know more than a man! HOW DARE SHE show her intellect!

Her every move is over scrutinized, over analyzed, over criticized--in ways that MEN are never challenged. She is
viewed as some sort of aberration, some sort of monster--where a man with the very same characteristics doesn't even get
a second glance.

I am SICK of Hillary bashing. I like Obama, but the answer is definitely NOT and NEVER in bashing Hillary.

Ladies out there---you need to consider who is bashing Hillary and WHY--

:mad:

[MadBadger]

34. You know, when people Bash Obama, we dont go around screaming RACISTSSS!!!

SOo many people here and everywhere scream Sexism when every anyone attacks Clinton and its just sickening already.

[MaraJade]

46. REALLLLLLY!!!!

:think:


:eyes:

So THAT'S THE REAL PROBLEM!

Thanks for alerting me!

:wow:

[knight_of_the_star]

56. Talk about shooting the messenger

Like how you belittle those who have issues with her failure to stick to her guns on any issue, take huge amounts of cash from lobbyists AND defend it, and other matters as being sexist.

Please.

Like another poster in response to you posted, you don't see Obama people calling those who criticize their guy racists.

[JDPriestly]

66. Nonsense! Hillary's cackle comes from who and what she is

and it isn't nice. The cackle is not a chuckle arising from amusement. It isn't a belly laugh arising from just having so much fun you can't keep it inside. Hillary's cackle is a laugh that arises from bitterness, jealousy, hatred and anger -- Hillary's bitterness, jealousy, hatred and anger. Maybe her life has just been so tough that she had become a very hard person. I don't know, but her laugh is no joke. It's a serious problem. It suggests a serious character flaw -- arrogance. It's a "gotcha laugh." It's a "you're a stupid idiot and I know it but you don't" laugh. It is ugly. You can say I am Hillary bashing all you want, but one of these days you will wake up and ask yourself how you could ever have been so deaf as to not hear the negative emotions behind that cackle.

I know you will think it odd to draw so many conclusions from sounds. I'm very sensitive to sounds because by reason of a childhood disability, that is the primary sense through which I discovered the world. I often recognize people more easily by their voices than by their faces. I can tell a lot from voices and sounds. Trust me on this one.

[rufus dog]

68. Agree

She comes across as an overbearing school marm bitch.

[cali]

70. *cackle*

yeah, I think it's odd. And I think it's nonsense too. Hate to break it to you, but voices are incredibly distinctive to most people.

You are projecting big time. I imagaine you've been told many times in your life that you do this, if you run around projecting on this level.

[JDPriestly]

73. Actually, I am a very well trained singer.

I know voices, and I have taught voice and singing. No, I have never cackled in my life. Sorry to disappoint you. I just know a lot about voices and what they express.

Some people can look at a painting and tell you how the brush strokes were done. I can hear a voice and know how it is produced and what emotion is behind it. This is especially true when I hear a voice that is familiar to me. Hillary's voice is familiar. We have heard it pretty frequently over a number of years.

[nebenaube]

4. I saw it...

She heckled the question on his time and he smacked her down... it was beautiful.

[gorekerrydreamticket]

13. Agree, she probably won't try something like that again.....n/m

[Hieronymus]

30. Yes, it was wonderful to see him smack her down. It was so tacky of her to

make a smart-ass remark.

[MaraJade]

49. After all, only WOMEN MAKE

Smart-Ass remarks. She should have been more "ladylike."


:eyes:

[Whisp]

54. if she was more uncorporate like, I could defend her on this.

but she's no representative of women nor men nor children, her lobbyists interest her more.

[knight_of_the_star]

57. How about her ego getting the way of good performance

Like assuming she already has the nom forget that we do get to vote on this, or that she's a corporate sell-out second only to Bush in donations received from the Health Insurance lobby.

[loveangelc]

61. oh please

If I heard Obama make a loud, over-exaggerated laugh at someone else's question, I would find it just as weird.

[Ignis]

74. You're really stretching there.

The vast majority of the time I hear the term "smart-ass" used, it's used in reference to a male.

You may wish to redirect your focus to the word "cackle," as that has much more obviously sexist connotations.

[merbex]

75. It was a "real moment" or what passes for one for Hillary - she was

going for the smart ass remark.

Obama clearly won that skirmish

[CoffeeCat]

7. Holy maird!

That's wasn't a cackle, that was a guffaw!

The thing is...it was probably a valid question. However,
when Hillary chimed in with her guffawing, she took away
any gain the question could have provided her.

That was a bad play.

She might as well have stood up on the podium and
screeched, "Yaaaa Obama! What do you have to say
about THAT! Neener. Neener."

Instead she looked bizarre and Obama looked as cool
as a cucumber.

[MadBadger]

9. Thank you for making me laugh

She was rude for the way she reacted to.

[Zueda]

51. Guffaw?

Oh now your just being sexist!- I think? I dunno? Oh well, regardless... it goes against Clinton and since Clinton is a she your 'Guffaw' statement is therefore sexist! You're such a PIG!

[frogcycle]

8. everything else

about her policies, her positions, her experience aside -

that was a really awkward moment. Somebody above put it well - she was heckling. She was out of line. It was teenager behavior. Granted, the former pres they were discussing is her husband, but that does not give her some special authority to butt in. She may get the nomination, she may win the election, but it won't be on personality.

[Joe the Revelator]

10. I love how he let her hang herself when she started acting like a fool....

a more inexpirenced candidate might have tried to cut her off, but he let her look as stupid as she was willing to let herself.

[Zueda]

52. That's exactly how I saw it....

As soon as she blurted "I want to hear that." I saw an instant cheshire cat smile cross his face. As if he knew already that he was about slam her.

[madfloridian]

11. Insulting Hillary, Gore, and Dean in one post. Two are not running

and are working their butts off for the party.

That is just plain an ugly post, and the person from Huff Post is insulting as well.

The Obama folks do not need to go after Gore and Dean.

[sandnsea]

15. I agree, foolish

And I don't know who wrote this at Huff Post either.

[MadBadger]

16. Big difference between 2000 Al Gore and 2007 Al Gore

[madfloridian]

20. Huff post is becoming hate Hillary central.

Arianna has always been their enemy. Now it is showing big time.

I don't have a choice in the primary, but attacks like this that spread out to other good people really piss me off.

Hillary is not my favorite, but she is so superior to any of the Republicans that it is unbelievable.

[AX10]

21. Arianna has no value to our side.

[MadBadger]

23. Please, Ive seen bloggers at huffpo who are Hillary supporters.

[madfloridian]

25. Not very many.

I used to love to read there, but they are including in their directors now people like Thomas Edsall. Look up some of his writings.

It is not a Democratic site, nor does it claim to be.

I just do not like to see Gore and Dean insulted. They are staying off the US media, not putting themselves in the line of fire, and they do not deserve this.

[MadBadger]

26. OMG, they mentioned Gore sighing....They really hit below the belt.

[rinsd]

77. Thanks for saying that MF. I know Hillary is far from a favorite of yours.

[AX10]

17. I have more respect for Hillary, Gore, and Dean than...

I do for Obama. Also, Huffington Post is proving to be an extension of Maureen Dowd's elitist blatherings.

[asdjrocky]

12. What in the hell was she thinking? nt

[sandnsea]

14. Oh lord, no no no no no

Not in the same ballpark at all. Howard Dean got a little overzealous and let out a very peculiar shriek. There was no offensive or rude intent in it at all.

Hillary's cackle is contrived, rude, completely different, as many people have pointed out all along. They should not be remotely compared, or used to take the focus off her attacks so she can say people are being mean to her.

[MaraJade]

35. Stupid. . .

Not rude in the least bit. If a MAN had done it, you would NEVER have made these comments.

[Joe the Revelator]

36. You serious, Clark?

nt

[MaraJade]

44. This is so entirely stupid

that I don't even know if I should respond.

People basically don't like Hillary simply because she is a woman. She is being held to some
sort of weird standard that she should be MOTHERLY and LADYLIKE, standards that no MAN is
ever held to.

MEN in this country are simply so immature in their "manhood" that they cannot stand any notion that
a woman could be "Commander in Chief," that it is ridiculous. Even so-called liberal men cannot stand that.

This is pitiful. Simply pitiful.

DU is full of hypocrites. Women in power are okay as long as they "don't go too far."

:cry:

[Joe the Revelator]

45. You seem to have some serious issues with men...

The blanket statement that men are "immature" is ridiculous

Second of all, if Hillary and her supporters want to run the free world one day, they have to begin taking responsibility for their actions instead of finding a way to blame everything on the big bad male bogyman. It's old, it's play out, and quite frankly, the argument holds no water.

[MaraJade]

47. NOPE. . .I'M MARRIED TO A MAN. . .

But I TRULY believe in the resilience, intelligence, strength and power of women.
I also do not believe that women must be "ladylike."
Which is far more than I can say for the so-called progressives here at DU--

[Joe the Revelator]

48. Who says that Hillary needs to be ladylike?

She just needs to be a professional like everyone else up on that stage. Heckling another candidate from her podium is not very professional.

[Laurab]

55. That is just BS

As a woman who would love to see a woman president, but does NOT want to see Hillary Clinton elected, I don't appreciate being called a "hypocrite" , or told I don't like her because she's a woman. Her sex has nothing to do with it. I would love to vote for someone like Barbara Boxer, although there are few like her.

I don't dislike Hillary, really, I hope she remains my senator. I dislike many things about her, and I hope she doesn't win the primary, because she would be the best get-out-the-vote candidate the repugs have ever had. She is HATED by them, and would be hounded throughout her presidency, if she was able to win it at all. I compare the way they feel about her to the way we feel about bush - she doesn't deserve it, but it's there, just the same.

You insult the intelligence of the men and women on here who don't want Hillary to win for very good reasons. Her financing, her votes, her secretiveness, some of her friends, her cold and calculating nature, among other things. I've studied most of the serious candidates in depth, and she would be my last choice. It has NOTHING to do with her being a woman, and everything to do with her being who she is.

[bunnies]

76. Great post. Im in total agreement. nt

[knight_of_the_star]

58. Actually if I man did the same thing I would say the same thing

About how they seem to lack class, decorum, and good etiquette considering this is a presidential debate not a grade school playground.

[maddiejoan]

71. The men were doing it all thru the debate

The only one that never laughs is Obama.

It actually creeps me out.

[madfloridian]

24. The Huff Post diarist is a big Obama fan....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-vogel/#blogger_bio

He did not have to include someone who is not running, but who is accomplishing a lot.

[BeyondGeography]

28. A bad moment for Hilly, but this is overdone

Can anyone post at HuffPost? I'm not impressed.

[MadBadger]

31. Probably is a little overdone

Just, Mark Penn set me off today and overdone or not, right now I just dont give a shit.

[BeyondGeography]

41. That's cool

I get that way, too. :hi:

[calteacherguy]

32. "the clip that symbolizes the major difference between Senator Clinton and Senator Obama"

It is precisely that.

[ClarkUSA]

37. I'd have to say no... until it's put to music and run on TV 1000x in a week.

I'm looking forward to that happening, of course, but I've always been an optimist.

[Cha]

38. Dean's was special..he needed

to go DOWN.

[Kurovski]

39. I thought this laugh was pretty real.

Disrespectful, but real.

I guess I'll have to watch it 10 times over to make my final decision. :crazy:

[TwilightGardener]

40. That was a cackle that was clearly intended to put the young upstart in his place--

It was meant to be withering, and there was a whiff of jealousy and resentment in it too. Obama coolly and gracefully turned it around on her--it was a thing of beauty. The man can defend himself, and think on his feet. Repubs better watch out.

on edit--yes, it was a Dean moment. People saw the inner Hillary in those few seconds. And it wasn't pretty.

[Orrex]

42. WTF does "comfortable in his own skin" mean?

That's got to be about the most worthless, throwaway description of a person that I've ever heard, and its appearance in any news story about a candidate is a sure sign that the article has no insights to offer.

I don't fault you for using it, particularly, but it really hit a nerve for me.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[loveangelc]

43. I love that Daily Show clip.

[niceypoo]

53. The depth of political shallowness in this country never ceases to amaze me

It's insane what passes for substance these days, really.

[Qanisqineq]

69. I second what you said

:eyes:

[fightindonkey]

59. Obama Troll - Ignore Their Inadequacy

[MadBadger]

60. delete

[Beacool]

62. Some of you people must be in a parallel world!!!

A Howard Dean moment?????? Outside of the blogs and pundits incessantly flogging this, nobody gave a rat's tail end if Hillary laughed. The audience and moderator must have thought that it was funny too, since they also laughed.

[MadBadger]

63. Then proceeded to laugh with Barack at her.

[Colobo]

65. Me too- he made Queen Hillary look naive and inexperienced.

[Beacool]

67. Well, she was right. He IS naive and inexperienced........

[Colobo]

72. Yeah. You are right. He voted for the IWR, and only a naive and inexperienced

person would do such thing... WAIT! He did not! But she did...

[Stand and Fight]

64. I'm not a Hillary supporter.

(I'm for Edwards for the record.) But this article is complete bullshit.