Help Me Out Here: When Has Obama's Camp Attacked Clinton?

[MannyGoldstein]

I keep reading about Obama's attacks on Clinton. I can't recall any. What have I missed?

[Clintonista2]

1. the "20 year pact" RW propaganda for one.

[MannyGoldstein]

3. Can You Cite Specifics?

A link perhaps?

[Clintonista2]

6. How about 3 links?

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2007/11/obama_on_the_clinton_secret_pa.html
http://www.newsday.com/services/newspaper/printedition/saturday/news/ny-usobam175464749nov17,0,3881420.story
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/obama-brings-up-the-clintons-secret-pact

[MannyGoldstein]

11. Thanks! nt

[Clintonista2]

14. No problem, I'm happy to have answered your question. n/t.

[Tejanocrat]

49. I'm a fan of the straight answer to a sucker question!

[Cameron27]

2. Bush/Cheney lite

[MannyGoldstein]

4. Can You Cite Specifics?

I don't think Obama ever said that - only that Clinton's refusal to talk to certain foreign leaders was Bush/Cheney-like.

[Cameron27]

7. I think he actually did say it Manny,

I'll try to find a source.

[rinsd]

12. Link

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/27/us/politics/27clinton.html


"I don't think Obama ever said that - only that Clinton's refusal to talk to certain foreign leaders was Bush/Cheney-like."

Like Hillary's campaign never actually disparaged Obama's cocaine use they only brought it up. :eyes:

[Cameron27]

17. Yes you're right

it was a reference which was close enough:

"I'm not going to hide behind a bunch of rhetoric. I don't want a continuation with Bush-Cheney. I don't want Bush-Cheney Lite. I want a fundamental change."

Obama also held a conference call with reporters, characterizing Clinton as no different from the Bush administration for foreswearing dialogue.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2007/07/the_politics_of_hope_it_all_bl.html


Senator Barack Obama continued to press his case against Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton yesterday, calling her “Bush-Cheney lite,” which prompted her to fire back — on camera — that the escalating dispute with Mr. Obama was “getting kind of silly.”

“I’ve been called a lot of things in my life,” Mrs. Clinton said on CNN, “but I’ve never been called George Bush or Dick Cheney, certainly.”

She then took a swipe at Mr. Obama’s campaign theme, which promises a different kind of politics. “Whatever has happened to the politics of hope?” she asked.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/27/us/politics/27clinton.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[elizm]

50. And those quotes were a DIRECT response to her calling him naive...

I for one was glad to see him fight back. SHE started it...

Obama dismissed Sen. Hillary Clinton's national security approach as "Bush-Cheney Lite" yesterday and said his priority as president would be to "unite" the country and seek change. His remarks came a day after Clinton smacked him down as "irresponsible and naïve" for his remarks during Monday's CNN-YouTube debate.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2007/07/the_politics_of_hope_it_all_bl.html

[Cameron27]

58. Naive isn't even close to comparing her to bush/cheney

[elizm]

61. We are talking about the first shot...are we not???? nt

[Cameron27]

63. So?

His statement during the debate did come off as naive when he was talking about international diplomacy. Ground rules always go first before the president goes off to meet leaders of foreign countries. With someone like Ahmadinejad, you have to make sure the meeting won't be used as a propaganda circus.

That still doesn't justify calling her Bush/Cheney lite.

[elizm]

70. Most people disagree that it was naive...

Hillary tried to make it an issue and turned it into a positive for him.

[Tejanocrat]

52. This thread is a hilarious example of someone asking a smart-ass question and getting more info than...

he wanted!

[sandnsea]

5. That's policy, not personal

When did he ever attack her personally?

[Cameron27]

8. Policy for politicians is personal.

[sandnsea]

23. Well then they'd have nothing to say n/t

[Cameron27]

29. Ridiculous,

they can argue each other's policies without slinging the mud. Linking Clinton with Bush & Cheney was sleazy.

[sandnsea]

44. Linking her policies with theirs is true n/t

[Cameron27]

45. It's sleazy,

how many times has he voted differently than Clinton?

[sandnsea]

47. Iran, and that's enough for me n/t

[Cameron27]

59. He didn't vote on K/L

but he sponsored legislation that was practically identical to it in March.

[sandnsea]

68. It was completey opposite, as has been posted n/t

[Clintonista2]

9. So being called george bush isn't an insult?

Maybe not for you, but for most of us it is.

[elizm]

51. It was his response to HER first calling him naive!

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2007/07/the_politics_of_hope_it_all_bl.html

[MGKrebs]

10. So if Obama said it was like Adolf Hitler, that would be OK?

[sandnsea]

22. If she supported something Hitler-like, well duh n/t

[MGKrebs]

42. Oh, so it's not really "policy vs. personal".

It's opinion, or perception. I suppose you would say "facts", but "Hitler-like" is not exactly a precise measurement, so it's perception.

[sandnsea]

46. If someone hated Jews, that would be Hitler-like

And saying so would be absolutely correct. Hillary's Iraq policy IS Bush-like, and her Iran vote directly supports that foreign policy ideology. It's correct to say so.

[MGKrebs]

53. OK, fine, so now you are saying that it's OK as long as it's "correct".

That's different than "policy".

And again, I would say that there are a lot of things that are not so clear about whether they are "correct" or not. Is Obama Idi Amin-like because he's Black?

The fact is, Obama has attacked Clinton by pretty much any criteria one can define. Deal.

[sandnsea]

54. Uh, yeah, being correct in your criticism matters n/t

[MGKrebs]

55. You're kinda weird aren't you?

See, even though that may be correct, it's still personal, so it's an attack. Your weirdness may affect your policy, but pointing out your weirdness is not a criticism of your policy, it's a criticism of you. If Hillary has policies like B***, then challenging those policies would not be an attack. Calling the candidate a name is an attack. Obama called Hillary a name. I don't like that either of them are playing this, but denying that Obama has done it is, well, weird.

[sandnsea]

56. No, Hilary's Bush-like war policy is not personal n/t

[MGKrebs]

57. Well then what is the point of associating the policy with "Bush"?

If it's wrong, it should be wrong on it's own without dragging the idiot king into it. That is just intended to insult.

[sandnsea]

65. Yeah, insult her on her Bush-like war policy, POLICY n/t

[Franc_Lee]

66. Bush/Cheney lite?!? - that wasn't an attack, it was a factual statement.

[Captain Hilts]

13. When he repeated the RNC talking points about the Clintons' "20 year plan for the WH." nt

[sandnsea]

25. That was a personal attack n/t

[Skip Intro]

15. Here ya go. A whole friggin list.

First, he did call Hillary "bush/cheney lite." And he did say, at a debate, that what she was saying he'd expect to hear from romney or guiliani. He was, deservedly, booed for that. He misrepresented her views from the first debate by saying she would refuse to meet with leaders of rouge nations. He did that to change the subject from his own answer on that question in the first debate, which he later "clarified" to the point his new position matched that of Hillary's. But that's not all:

Sen. Obama called Hillary 'disingenuous.' Sen. Obama: “Her response was certainly inadequate…She can release these papers…I think she was being disingenuous.” Newsweek, 11/12/07

Sen. Obama told reporters to ask Hillary 'the difference between disingenuous and dishonest.' Q: “What's the difference between disingenuous and dishonest?” Obama: “You'll have to ask her.” Newsweek, 11/3/07

Sen. Obama said Hillary has not 'been truthful to voters about what she would do as president. NYT: “Has she been truthful to voters about what she would do as president?” Obama: “No.” New York Times, 10/27/07

Sen. Obama accused Hillary of 'not being straight' with the American people on many issues. Sen. Obama: "Hillary's idea is that we should force everyone to buy insurance. But this is yet another issue where she is not being straight with the American people because she refuses to tell us how much she would fine people if they couldn't afford insurance." AP, 11/25/07

Sen. Obama accused Hillary of not putting 'honesty first.' "The real choice in this election is between conventional Washington thinking that prizes posture and positioning, or real change that puts judgment and honesty first." Politico.com, 11/20/07

Sen. Obama said Hillary is more concerned 'about getting through an election than actually solving the health care problems.' “The Illinois senator said it is another instance of political maneuvering on Clinton's part. ‘So unless she can answer those questions this is yet another calculation that's more about getting through an election than actually solving the health care problems,’ he said.” AP, 11/25/07

Sen. Obama said Hillary is only about 'winning elections,' isn't concerned about 'solving problems,' lacks 'principles.' "On the stump, Mr. Obama calls Mrs. Clinton a skilled politician and a friend, but says she is running her campaign from a flawed 'textbook' that is 'all about winning elections, but says nothing about how to bring the country together to solve problems.' 'As we saw in the debate last week, it encourages vague, calculated answers to suit the politics of the moment, instead of clear, consistent principles about how you would lead America,' he said over the weekend." Washington Times, 11/8/07

Sen. Obama: Voters should be concerned that is 'running the textbook, classic Washington campaign, which is to avoid clear answers.' Q: “But do you think that voters should be concerned about whether she's telling the truth?” Obama: “I think that the voters should be concerned that she is running the textbook, classic Washington campaign, which is to avoid giving clear answers and getting pinned down, for fear that somehow you're going to be tagged, either in the primary or the general election. I think that's an old way of doing business. I think that's the kind of politics that has lead to gridlock and an ineffective Washington. That's the kind of politics I want to change." MSNBC, 11/8/07

Sen. Obama said Hillary doesn't stand for anything. "Obama has criticized rival Hillary Rodham Clinton on both issues, and he said not taking strong stands ultimately doesn't work. 'People want parties to stand for something,' he said." AP, 11/7/07

Sen. Obama said Hillary's positions are all based on 'what’s popular or politically convenient.' "Now, Senator Clinton is certainly not the only one in Washington to play this game. It’s gone on for years, and I understand the reasoning behind it. It’s a game that usually gets politicians where they need to go. But I don’t believe it gets America where we need to go. When it comes to issues like war and diplomacy, energy and health care, I don’t believe we can bring about real change if all we do is change our positions based on what’s popular or politically convenient." Barack Obama, ‘A Change We Can Believe In,’ 11/3/07


All of these attack Hillary's character, but that last one is espeically slimy, because, in an MTP interview, Obama said himself that in 04 he said things like "he didn't know how he would have voted" on the IWR. When explaining away those words, and statements like, "there's not much difference between me and bush on Iraq," he stated that he couldn't really say what he thought about Iraq becasue our nominee had voted for the IWR. In other words, his positions then were based on "what's popular or politically convenient."

What a flaming hypocrite he is.

[oasis]

21. That should be enough to make the inquisitor a convert. (eom)

[HeraldSquare212]

27. I don't know

those don't seem personal to me - they're describing her campaign and her motivation in taking certain positions.

Edit: I mean, they really seem no worse than calling someone naive or inexperienced, right?

[wyldwolf]

32. punjab?

[Tactical Progressive]

35. That's certainly not the whole list of Obama's lies & smears

But it is a very good list indeed to get a feel for how this low-roader has run his entire "new politics" campaign of smearing Democrats at any opportunity.

Then complaining that he's the victim.


You won't see the 'mainstream' media subjecting ANY of Obama's lies or attacks to scrutiny.


Well done skip.

Thank you.

[MethuenProgressive]

39. That's just the November list, I think

ObamaNation had a busy month

[mtnsnake]

16. Obama camp attacks Hillary's Indian links with a slur

When United States Senator Barak Obama entered the American Presidential race, he staked out his turf on the moral high ground with a call for a new kind of politics, devoid of personal attack and characterised by debates on the issues that matter.
His campaign apparently has not been listening: Members of the Senator's campaign staff have been circulating a document that, in its title, slightingly refers to Democratic rival Senator Hillary Clinton as the Democrat from Punjab -- a seeming slur on Clinton's ties with India and Indian Americans.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/jun/15clinton.htm

[readmoreoften]

18. Hillary Clinton (D) Punjab. That one was the creepiest in my opinion. /nt

[sandnsea]

26. She does have HUGE support from India

and from people who have been convicted of illegal business activities in India. That was a very fair attack and one that I wish more people were aware of.

[Clintonista2]

34. And Obama DID do drugs

was that a fair attack?

[Lucinda]

19. A bit more at this link

And yes it's a Hillary fact link page. BUT they document what they post, and link to the original information if it is posted online:

http://facts.hillaryhub.com/archive/?id=4482

There other things off the main page as well..

[mtnsnake]

20. Obama attacks Hillary Clinton's integrity

Second, past experience shows that Sen. Obama’s personal attacks on Sen. Clinton’s integrity, even if they are believed by some Democrats, are not likely to accrue to his benefit. History teaches us that in a multi-candidate field, the candidate who goes personally negative is more likely to turn voters to another candidate other than himself.

And third, Sen. Obama’s attacks on Sen. Clinton will not deal with the fundamental problem of his candidacy to date: To many people he comes across as inexperienced, at times impulsive and naïve, lacking some quality — call it gravitas or maturity, I don’t know the right word — to be president. And he has yet to spell out a specific set of programs or vision for where he would take the country in the future.

http://pundits.thehill.com/2007/11/05/personal-attacks-vs-disagreement-on-issues-obama-and-edwards-know-the-difference/

[HeraldSquare212]

31. Lanny Davis wrote that article

he's a Clintonite, no?

[William769]

24. Any more questions Manny?

[MannyGoldstein]

28. Not Right Now - But Thanks For Asking nt

[DrFunkenstein]

30. You Forgot The Quote From My Signature Tag

Except for the Punjab media release, which I openly condemn, Obama has stuck to matters of policy.

If she is not informing voters of where she stands on an issue and he calls her out for not being forthcoming about inconvenient positions, I think that's fair game.

But a big reason I am deeply opposed to her candidacy is summed up in my DU signature. I am deeply disappointed by her legacy during the post-9/11 era.

[Cameron27]

33. OK

What votes were different than Clinton's?

"I am running for president because I am sick and tired of Democrats thinking the only way to look tough on national security is talking and acting and voting like George Bush Republicans." - Barack Obama.

[Skip Intro]

69. POW!

:thumbsup:

[Tactical Progressive]

36. You "can't recall any"?

Did you miss 'kindergartengate', just last week? That shouldn't stretch anyone's recall.

That was Obama lying and smearing Hillary.

[MannyGoldstein]

41. WTF?

I think you have that one backwards.

[Tactical Progressive]

43. I didn't think you really had a "recall" problem

It's actually a partisan honesty problem.

I can't help you with that.

[Lucinda]

48. No. Obama initially said she's been planning this forever and I haven't.

Which was untrue.

Hillary links to several sources which contradict his statement. And made a joke about his kindergarten teacher even knowing he wanted to be president (with an interview of the teacher sited - in addition to other interviews where people talked about his desire to be Pres.) What got covered by the media, was Obama attacking her comment, not the fact that he was inaccurate when he criticized her in the first place. Spin.

[Bitwit1234]

37. One thing they did was blame Hillary because the asshole Novak

posted a lie on his column...they jumped in and all over Hillary...and that's a fact it was all over the news. And if I was up to it today I'd google and post them all.

[MethuenProgressive]

38. Will Obama put a stop to the anti-Hillary e-mail smear campaign?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3831102&mesg_id=3831102
According to ObamaNation all smears start at the top, so when will Obama put a stop to these emails?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2007/dec/12/commie-email-quiz-gets-failing-grade/
An anonymous e-mail makes the case that Sen. Clinton holds the same beliefs as Karl Marx and Josef Stalin by using communist-sounding quotes.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/130 /
Clinton "refused repeated requests to meet with the Gold Star Mothers."
Chain e-mail on Wednesday, October 17th, 2007 in an e-mail message circulated by many people.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/131 /
"The Clintons now charge the Secret Service $10,000 monthly rent for the use of (a) Secret Service residence and that rent is just about equal to their mortgage payment."
Chain e-mail on Monday, September 17th, 2007 in an e-mail message circulated by many people

[NYCGirl]

40. You do realize that two of those started in 2001, right?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/landlord.asp

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/goldstar.asp

[McCamy Taylor]

60. Obama's big gimmick is that "HIllary is the same as Bush" and "HIllary wants war with Iran"

Obama has all but called that Senate vote dropping an atom bomb on Tehran.

Them are some pretty tough words.

:nuke:

Obama is just as ruthless and ambitious as Hillary. I see nothing to distinguish the two of them, except that Hillary brings Bill Clinton, whom I trust to have something more than his own ambition and quest for personal power fueling the drive for the White House.

The nations big corporations love Obama and Hillary because they know that they can work with politicians who are driven by ambition.

[elizm]

62. huh????

"whom I trust to have something more than his own ambition and quest for personal power fueling the drive for the White House."

Head exploding...are you for real? Please get yourself informed.

[McCamy Taylor]

64. I am informed. That is why I am not fooled by the Obama Show nor by the Hillary Show

nor by the Two Man Show . Hillary is ok as long as she brings Bill back, but Edwards does not have to bring anyone back. I am voting for the real Democrat, not the Hollywood version.

[karynnj]

67. Mark Penn told Tweety that Obama said she was "disengeuous"

when asked - he said that started it.

[Perry Logan]

71. And Obama's followers will say anything that comes into their heads about Hillary.