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Iowa newspaper on Obama's caucus 'cheating': "The Illinois Caucus."

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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 10:35 AM
Original message
Iowa newspaper on Obama's caucus 'cheating': "The Illinois Caucus."
Edited on Mon Dec-03-07 10:36 AM by MethuenProgressive
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/12/03/49331...

If there is one thing Iowan's don't like, it's shenanigans. The Des Moines Register's Yepsen has a VERY provocative headline, "The Illinois Caucus." The piece is about a brochure the Obama camp is passing out explaining to out-of-state Iowa college students that they can participate in the caucuses as long as they register to vote in Iowa. Yepsen: "While it’s legal for college students to register to vote in Iowa to do that, this raises the question of whether it’s fair, or politically smart. No presidential campaign in memory has ever made such a large, open attempt to encourage students from out of state, many of whom pay out-of-state tuition, to participate in the caucuses. No other campaign appears to be doing it in this campaign cycle."

Iowans aren't quite the rubes that a certain candidate thinks they are.


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   Replies to this thread
   Wow not good if true  Egnever   Dec-03-07 10:37 AM   #1 
   Link here - thanks to Debi  rurallib   Dec-03-07 10:44 AM   #4 
   The link leads to a scan of the handout telling out of state students how to join a caucus.  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 10:59 AM   #11 
   To be fair, that link was provided by an impartial Iowan,  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 11:53 AM   #79 
      I am not an Obama supporter, I am an Iowan who understands the law  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:57 AM   #86 
         I corrected my post as you were composing this.  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 11:59 AM   #88 
            Thank you. n/t  Debi   Dec-03-07 01:09 PM   #123 
   rurallib, you do know that there is nothing shading with what Obama is doing  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:08 AM   #18 
   Right - I have spent much of my day defending him  rurallib   Dec-03-07 04:22 PM   #151 
      Thanks rurallib  Debi   Dec-03-07 05:42 PM   #152 
   Thanks for the link  Egnever   Dec-03-07 11:08 AM   #19 
   How is it not good?  krb123   Dec-03-07 12:16 PM   #100 
   David Yepsen an effing idiot  rurallib   Dec-03-07 10:43 AM   #2 
   There's a scan of the questionable handout above- Yepsen didn't forge it, did he?  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 11:03 AM   #15 
      But there is nothing illegal or rule breaking about the handout n/t  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:09 AM   #21 
         People from out of state who aren't voters can caucus in Iowa?  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 11:12 AM   #24 
            Yes, people who are attending an Iowa college from another state can register to vote in Iowa  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:18 AM   #35 
            The "If you're not from Iowa" handout says nothing about registering to vote.  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 11:20 AM   #39 
               You can't caucus if you're not registered to vote AND Iowa has same day registration  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:23 AM   # 
            Duh--no: out-of-state students who have a residence in Iowa can register to vote there  frazzled   Dec-03-07 11:21 AM   #41 
               If they're "not from Iowa" they're "from Iowa"?  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 11:23 AM   #44 
               Yes, by law they are at least for the purpose of voting here n/t  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:26 AM   #49 
               They live in Iowa for most of the year. They have the legal right to caucus.  JackORoses   Dec-03-07 03:17 PM   #145 
               Which are considered 'residences' as are dorm rooms. They are within the law. n/t  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:25 AM   #48 
   Politics of Hope?  ccpup   Dec-03-07 10:44 AM   #3 
   All the other candidates signed a pledge to keep the Iowa election "clean" except..  Tellurian   Dec-03-07 10:49 AM   #5 
      wow!  ccpup   Dec-03-07 10:52 AM   #6 
      There was a pledge that Dodd started  ellacott   Dec-03-07 11:01 AM   #13 
         Yes, it is..But who knew of Obama's desperation. Fear he couldn't win Iowa honestly..  Tellurian   Dec-03-07 12:24 PM   #102 
            Please explain how Obama isn't winning Iowa honestly  krb123   Dec-03-07 12:52 PM   #114 
            I'm talking about the thousands his campaign has recruited  Tellurian   Dec-03-07 12:55 PM   #115 
               You're talking about nonsense  krb123   Dec-03-07 01:02 PM   #118 
               Do you have proof of these thousands he's recruiting?  tammywammy   Dec-03-07 07:10 PM   #157 
            Wow  ellacott   Dec-03-07 01:13 PM   #127 
               Stop it, you're ruining the moment  Debi   Dec-03-07 01:37 PM   #133 
      You know that there is no cheating going on here, you just jump from post to post  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:11 AM   #23 
      Somehow I missed that one. Interesting.  Rock_Garden   Dec-03-07 11:12 AM   #26 
      So, at the caucuses, if an out of state college student wants to caucus  hedgehog   Dec-03-07 11:49 AM   #75 
      Obama cheated? What rule/law did he break?  krb123   Dec-03-07 12:27 PM   #105 
         One Iowan pointed out the grammar rule (or is it punctuation?)  Debi   Dec-03-07 01:39 PM   #135 
   Are you sure the paper is talking about a democrat  surfermaw   Dec-03-07 10:53 AM   #7 
   delete  madrchsod   Dec-03-07 10:54 AM   #8 
   If the Obama campaign goes through with this,  sufrommich   Dec-03-07 10:54 AM   #9 
   But, it's okay if Obama does this, right?  ilovesunshine   Dec-03-07 10:56 AM   #10 
   It's not like he bused people in from out of state for the debate audience.  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 11:00 AM   #12 
   But if the students on those busses are attending college in Iowa  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:10 AM   #22 
      How many Illinois students attend Iowa Colleges?  NCarolinawoman   Dec-03-07 11:24 AM   # 
         Well, Dean admitted later that he had never seen an Iowa caucus and was complaining  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:31 AM   #57 
         Obama surely knows how many. And is calling for them to claim Iowa as their caucus home.  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 11:32 AM   #58 
            Which is both legal and 'right' by Iowa law and Iowa Caucus rules n/t  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:46 AM   #69 
               Bus loads of kids from Illinois to caucus for Obama in Iowa...  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 12:01 PM   #90 
                  Bus loads of Iowa college students who went home for winter break and received a ride back to Iowa  Debi   Dec-03-07 01:13 PM   #126 
                     Free ride back to College?  maddiejoan   Dec-03-07 01:35 PM   #132 
                     Not a free ride back to college  Debi   Dec-03-07 02:19 PM   #137 
                        who is picking up the tab?  maddiejoan   Dec-03-07 02:21 PM   #138 
                           It is no different than volunteers who drive people back and forth to the polling sites  Debi   Dec-03-07 02:26 PM   #139 
                              If the Obama campaign spends a dime  maddiejoan   Dec-03-07 02:31 PM   #141 
                                 You've never heard of volunteers driving folks to the polls?  Debi   Dec-03-07 03:10 PM   #143 
                                    From bordering states?  sufrommich   Dec-03-07 03:13 PM   #144 
                                    Probably happens more in the primaries than the general elections here  Debi   Dec-03-07 03:22 PM   #148 
                                    across state lines?  maddiejoan   Dec-03-07 03:18 PM   #146 
                                       Call yourself what you want. n/t  Debi   Dec-03-07 03:23 PM   #149 
                     They received something (a "free" bus trip) in exchange for their vote?  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 01:37 PM   #134 
                        I called the local Obama office and asked them their plans  Debi   Dec-03-07 02:19 PM   #136 
                           Thanks for that. People are getting themselves freaked out for no reason  Pirate Smile   Dec-03-07 02:30 PM   #140 
   MYDD: Democratic Campaigns (Hillary, Dodd) Should Not Advocate Voter Disenfranchisement  Bleachers7   Dec-03-07 11:02 AM   #14 
   "If you're not from Iowa, you can come back and caucus in your college neighborhood."  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 11:06 AM   #16 
   Because the Supreme Court said so 30 years ago  WesDem   Dec-03-07 11:16 AM   #31 
      Thank goodness someone who understands the law and rules is here  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:19 AM   #38 
      The only difference between 2008 and the past is the caucus is happening when schools are out  Bleachers7   Dec-03-07 11:24 AM   #45 
         Yep, they are. Obama is just making it easier for these people to come back n/t  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:28 AM   #53 
      You're absolutely right! This attack on Obama is absurd.  Jim Lane   Dec-03-07 11:48 AM   #73 
      "it looks bad for Democrats to be taking up a right-wing cause from decades ago"  WesDem   Dec-03-07 11:53 AM   #80 
         Maybe Precinct Caucus Chairs should ask for their 'papers' when they get off the bus n/t  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:59 AM   #87 
            Only Clinton or Dodd precinct chairs  WesDem   Dec-03-07 12:24 PM   #103 
               You forgot the rules established by the Iowa Democratic Party as well  Debi   Dec-03-07 01:10 PM   #124 
      that's exactly what it is:  darboy   Dec-03-07 06:36 PM   #154 
   I think it is politically foolish though  Tom Rinaldo   Dec-03-07 11:08 AM   #20 
      Which is why it didn't happen in 2004  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:13 AM   #27 
         The distinction lies somewhere between technical and meaningful  Tom Rinaldo   Dec-03-07 11:24 AM   #46 
            If they have an Iowa address and are registered to vote, they can vote.  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:28 AM   #51 
               "If you're not from Iowa, you can come back and caucus in your college neighborhood."  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 11:30 AM   #55 
               You are being purposely thick  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:33 AM   #59 
                  "The law is clear. You are trying to cloud it. " *I'm* trying to cloud it??  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 11:47 AM   #70 
                     You keep saying Obama is cheating even though I've provided you with the Iowa law  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:49 AM   #76 
               I already said that: "Yes it is legal, and because it is legal it is not inproper"  Tom Rinaldo   Dec-03-07 11:38 AM   #65 
                  I didn't mean to argue. n/t  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:55 AM   #82 
                  "because it is legal it is not inproper" I strongly disagree, Tom.  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 12:44 PM   #112 
                     You are correct in that something legal is not always proper, BUT  krb123   Dec-03-07 12:57 PM   #116 
                     Sure, but a case can be made either way about what a good law would say here  Tom Rinaldo   Dec-03-07 01:30 PM   #130 
   It's legal and within the rules. The Obama campaign is doing nothing wrong  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:07 AM   #17 
   "To become a voter in Iowa one must have a residence in the State. "  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 11:14 AM   #28 
   Read all of it instead of cherry-picking  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:17 AM   #32 
      True,  MNDemNY   Dec-03-07 11:34 AM   #60 
         No, but the law in Iowa is clear and out of state students who attend Iowa colleges  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:35 AM   #62 
   Thanks for clearing that up  zulchzulu   Dec-03-07 11:15 AM   #30 
      Please do so, but also ask for imput from Iowans  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:21 AM   #40 
   Did anybody click on the link? Here is the rest  Inuca   Dec-03-07 11:12 AM   #25 
   Hmmm, I wonder how many out of state students....  Beacool   Dec-03-07 11:14 AM   #29 
   How many of those "If you're not from Iowa" students will vote at home too?  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 11:17 AM   #34 
   That is illegal n/t  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:36 AM   #63 
   That is just as illegal as snowbirds  karynnj   Dec-03-07 12:05 PM   #94 
   You're not very bright, are you? n/t  Tyrone Slothrop   Dec-03-07 03:21 PM   #147 
   Yes, and I think the complainers didn't think about it and are now  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:25 AM   #47 
      You say the 'complainers' are just jealous they didn't think to cheat first?  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 11:28 AM   #52 
         It's not cheating, and you are being obtuse n/t  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:34 AM   #61 
   kick  murbley40   Dec-03-07 11:17 AM   #33 
   double kick  Tellurian   Dec-03-07 12:59 PM   #117 
   Give me a break - where did people here register when they were in college?  karynnj   Dec-03-07 11:18 AM   #36 
   Kennebunk. Voted absentee, like the law said I was supposed to.  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 11:21 AM   #42 
   What law?  karynnj   Dec-03-07 11:29 AM   #54 
   You can have only one legal residence. That's a law. Except in Iowa?  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 11:36 AM   #64 
      A person can only vote in one state. Iowa law gives them the opportunity to vote here  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:44 AM   #67 
      The interpretation in Indiana when I was a kid  karynnj   Dec-03-07 11:56 AM   #84 
   What I was thinking..  desi   Dec-03-07 11:48 AM   #71 
      Won't they still be in Iowa for the general election?  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:51 AM   #77 
         A hypothetical  desi   Dec-03-07 12:04 PM   #93 
            An answer  krb123   Dec-03-07 12:07 PM   #96 
            Good try...  desi   Dec-03-07 12:42 PM   #110 
            Another hypothetical  Debi   Dec-03-07 01:08 PM   #121 
   I registered and voted in Humboldt County  XemaSab   Dec-03-07 01:20 PM   #128 
   Seems to me that the Clinton supporters are getting more and more desperate.  Mass   Dec-03-07 11:19 AM   #37 
   Keep pushing this  BeyondGeography   Dec-03-07 11:22 AM   #43 
   Really counting on that "If you're not from Iowa" vote, eh?  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 11:27 AM   #50 
   What is the exact quote?  Bleachers7   Dec-03-07 11:31 AM   #56 
   He's evil  BeyondGeography   Dec-03-07 11:41 AM   #66 
   You know what, I'm not even an Obama supporter.  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:48 AM   #72 
      Thanks for making that factual point  BeyondGeography   Dec-03-07 11:49 AM   #74 
      debi, just because he's exploiting a loophole and recruiting 'non-Iowan' voters  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 11:57 AM   #85 
         It's not a loop-hole.  Debi   Dec-03-07 12:02 PM   #91 
         "Why would you think that?" The law that allows "If you're not from Iowa" to vote in Iowa?  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 12:24 PM   #104 
         How can you classify an Iowa student as a "non-Iowan" and "Illinois resident"  krb123   Dec-03-07 12:20 PM   #101 
            The Obama Handout: "If you are not from Iowa, you can come back for the Iowa caucus..."  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 12:29 PM   #106 
               I am "not from" Illinois - I grew up in, and am from Connecticut.  krb123   Dec-03-07 12:35 PM   #107 
                  You're welcome for the answer to your question. Have you another?  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 12:40 PM   #109 
                     Deleted message  Name removed   Dec-03-07 01:08 PM   #122 
   Any person from any state can 'support' a candidate  Debi   Dec-03-07 11:46 AM   #68 
   What's next?  desi   Dec-03-07 11:56 AM   #83 
   Well - HRC did complain that young people don't vote in high numbers.  karynnj   Dec-03-07 12:10 PM   #98 
   From "zero" previous presidential ambitions to turning the process upside down. Whew!!  oasis   Dec-03-07 11:51 AM   #78 
   My kids all registered to vote at college as soon as they hit campus.  hedgehog   Dec-03-07 11:54 AM   #81 
   If you go to school in Iowa, you reside in the state for the overwhelming majority of the year  krb123   Dec-03-07 12:01 PM   #89 
   Welcom to DU Krb123  Debi   Dec-03-07 12:03 PM   #92 
      Thanks Debi  krb123   Dec-03-07 12:08 PM   #97 
         You catch on fast! n/t  Debi   Dec-03-07 01:11 PM   #125 
   How do life long Iowans feel about thousands of out-of-staters voting in the caucus?  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 12:06 PM   #95 
   How are out-of-state students any different from adults who recently moved to Iowa?  krb123   Dec-03-07 12:13 PM   #99 
   "You are being silly," welcome to DU krb  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 12:38 PM   #108 
      Maybe you think it is "silly" because you are too dumb to pick up on sarcasm  krb123   Dec-03-07 01:05 PM   #119 
         krb, one votes where one resides.  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 01:34 PM   #131 
   How do young people/student feel about getting help and encouragement to participate in the process?  Sandaasu   Dec-03-07 03:29 PM   #150 
   Republican Playbook against students' voting rights  WesDem   Dec-03-07 12:42 PM   #111 
   Wes, if a Right Wing Fundi college set up in your town, would you want them voting  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 12:52 PM   #113 
      It's not a favor, it is a constitutional *right* of students to vote from school  WesDem   Dec-03-07 01:08 PM   #120 
         "No Iowans are being disenfranchised. They all get to vote, too."  MethuenProgressive   Dec-03-07 01:30 PM   #129 
            I am for democracy, too  WesDem   Dec-03-07 03:06 PM   #142 
   yeah heaven forbid  darboy   Dec-03-07 06:27 PM   #153 
   Is it Friday the 13th or a full moon or something?  Debi   Dec-03-07 06:57 PM   #155 
      Im arguing for full participation  darboy   Dec-03-07 07:15 PM   #158 
      You seem to know more than most on this subject -  DURHAM D   Dec-03-07 07:53 PM   #159 
         I'm not the guru on it, but It would seem that participating in the caucuses  Debi   Dec-03-07 08:27 PM   #160 
   Um, Hypocritical Hillaryworld is doing the same thing. Nice of Yepsen to leave that part out.  ClarkUSA   Dec-03-07 06:59 PM   #156 
 
Egnever (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. Wow not good if true
I would like to see the brochures
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Link here - thanks to Debi
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. The link leads to a scan of the handout telling out of state students how to join a caucus.
Thanks for that link. Maybe now I should edit the 'quotes' off the word 'cheats' in the OP...
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #11
79. To be fair, that link was provided by an impartial Iowan,
Edited on Mon Dec-03-07 11:58 AM by MethuenProgressive
In no way am I trying to say/imply/hint/suggest she's of the same opinion I am about the handout - she is most definitely not, and quite honestly argues it is perfectly OK.
Just shows how two people can look at that same thing and see it different.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #79
86. I am not an Obama supporter, I am an Iowan who understands the law
If you take issue with the law contact Iowa's Attorney General or Secretary of State or any member of the Iowa Legislature who helped enact the law or the Governor who signed the law.

Or, if you'd rather, take it to a public board and throw a tantrum. That'll help.
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #86
88. I corrected my post as you were composing this.
After I read below where you said you weren't an Obama supporter.
Cross posts happen.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #88
123. Thank you. n/t
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. rurallib, you do know that there is nothing shading with what Obama is doing
right?
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #18
151. Right - I have spent much of my day defending him
Iowa, in particular, has a slew of Chicago kids who would be caucusing had things not gotten so hosed up. During the school year their home is Iowa City, so they should be able to caucus.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #151
152. Thanks rurallib
Edited on Mon Dec-03-07 05:43 PM by Debi
Living in a college town myself (UNI) these kids work in our stores and restaurants, many live in apartments or houses all over town. They buy food, gas, clothes and other items from our local merchants. You know the Board of Regents has a student member on it and I know some Iowa communities have student advisors or non-voting members to their city councils. UNI and it's students are very much a part of our community.

21,000 out of state Iowa college students can legally participate in the Iowa caucuses if they choose to.

I know you knew that. How Clinton campaign adviser (former Iowa Governor) Tom Vilsack didn't know that I'm not sure. I wonder what kind of support at the polls he got from out of state Iowa college students?

Here's a link to the 2002 general election canvass from the Iowa Secretary of State's office: http://www.sos.state.ia.us/pdfs/elections/2002/results/...

In my home county over 2,500 18-24 year olds voted. I wonder how many of them were from Iowa vs. how many from out of state attending UNI?
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. Thanks for the link
Not as appalling as I thought,seems to be more informational than outright encouragement to stack the caucus.

However it may be received poorly by the native Iowans. Of course if they really don't want this kind of thing to happen they should change the caucus rules.
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krb123 (19 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
100. How is it not good?
Students who live in Iowa for the overwhelming majority of the year are participating in the Iowa caucus....sounds like a big controversy to me!!!!
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. David Yepsen an effing idiot
I get so tired of him and his right wing slant. Just wanted to get that in. He does not speak for Iowa Dems by any means.
Now that I got that off my chest, U of Iowa has a large contingent of students from Chicago and the collar counties. When the GE comes along next year they will be voting in Iowa City since that is where they live at the time. That includes local issues.
Had the caucus been January 14 as it was scheduled, many of these students would be back and able to attend the caucus. Since one has to actually be present at the caucus - there is no absentee - this is what they need to do to have their vote counted if they so desire.
BTW Obama is not my candidate.
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. There's a scan of the questionable handout above- Yepsen didn't forge it, did he?
:shrug:
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. But there is nothing illegal or rule breaking about the handout n/t
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. People from out of state who aren't voters can caucus in Iowa?
Edited on Mon Dec-03-07 11:15 AM by MethuenProgressive
"If you're not from Iowa..."
from debi's post:
"To become a voter in Iowa one must have a residence in the State. "
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #24
35. Yes, people who are attending an Iowa college from another state can register to vote in Iowa
It is legal, you are blowing smoke.
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. The "If you're not from Iowa" handout says nothing about registering to vote.
Just says 'you can caucus in your college neighborhood' - do they check to see if they students are registered, Debi?
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:23 AM
Original message
You can't caucus if you're not registered to vote AND Iowa has same day registration
They must fill out a registration form that asks for their address - in the state of Iowa. Lying on the form is perjury and subject to fines and jail time.

Go do some research, the Iowa Democratic Party has some good information on this. It will save you from looking foolish on this board.
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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #24
41. Duh--no: out-of-state students who have a residence in Iowa can register to vote there
I think that is what this effort is about. Probably, most of the other campaigns aren't putting efforts into this because they don't have enough of this group's vote to make it worth the time.

A lot of students from neighboring Illinois go to school in Iowa. Many even have their own apartments there.
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. If they're "not from Iowa" they're "from Iowa"?
frazzled: "A lot of students from neighboring Illinois go to school in Iowa."
Ah. Ha.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #44
49. Yes, by law they are at least for the purpose of voting here n/t
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JackORoses (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #44
145. They live in Iowa for most of the year. They have the legal right to caucus.
So what if some come from Illinois? Some come from New York, too.

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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #41
48. Which are considered 'residences' as are dorm rooms. They are within the law. n/t
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ccpup (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. Politics of Hope?
more like Politics of Let's Hope They're Not Paying Too Much Attention To How We "Win" This Thing.

But, hey, if 'bama opens the door to out-of-state students voting, then anything goes.
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Tellurian (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. All the other candidates signed a pledge to keep the Iowa election "clean" except..
for the cheater, Obama!
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ccpup (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. wow!
really? Now THAT I did not know. Hmmm ... funny none of the 'bama supporters have mentioned that.
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ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. There was a pledge that Dodd started
I don't know if this is what they're talking about.
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Tellurian (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
102. Yes, it is..But who knew of Obama's desperation. Fear he couldn't win Iowa honestly..
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krb123 (19 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #102
114. Please explain how Obama isn't winning Iowa honestly
Some of his supporters who are students that LIVE in Iowa for most of the year are going to caucus for him....please tell me how that is not "honest". It is in full accordance with the law. And it is completely fair that someone who resides in Iowa for most of the year should be able to participate in Iowa elections/caucuses.
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Tellurian (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #114
115. I'm talking about the thousands his campaign has recruited
That may or may not be students..
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krb123 (19 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #115
118. You're talking about nonsense
Obama is recruiting non-students who don't live in Iowa to caucus in Iowa? Kind of hard to do since you need to reside in Iowa to participate in the caucus. Do you have any sources for this outlandish claim?
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #115
157. Do you have proof of these thousands he's recruiting?
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ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #102
127. Wow
WE THE UNDERSIGNED CAMPAIGNS, to ensure a fair caucus process AND MAINTAIN THE INTEGRITY OF IOWA’S FIRST IN THE NATION CAUCUS, pledge that no campaign staff or out-of-state volunteers will be allowed to caucus or be counted as a caucus-goer on January 3rd.

Julie Andreeff Jensen

Paul Tewes
Obama Campaign


Teresa Vilmain
Clinton Campaign

Danny O’Brien
Biden Campaign

Jennifer O’Malley Dillon
Edwards Campaign

Rob Becker
Richardson Campaign

http://www.iowapolitics.com/index.iml?Article=110118

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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #127
133. Stop it, you're ruining the moment
:rofl:
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
23. You know that there is no cheating going on here, you just jump from post to post
beating the drum.
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Rock_Garden (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
26. Somehow I missed that one. Interesting.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #5
75. So, at the caucuses, if an out of state college student wants to caucus
for Senator Clinton, the Clinton people will....
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krb123 (19 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
105. Obama cheated? What rule/law did he break?
Please tell me....I'm very curious to hear.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #105
135. One Iowan pointed out the grammar rule (or is it punctuation?)
Its vs. It's

That's probably not what you were talking about ;)
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surfermaw (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
7. Are you sure the paper is talking about a democrat
This sounds like something a republican would do!
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
8. delete
Edited on Mon Dec-03-07 10:57 AM by madrchsod
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Donate to DU! Mon Dec-03-07 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
9. If the Obama campaign goes through with this,
it will backfire on them.Who believes the press will not be there to record the busses pulling in from Illinois?
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ilovesunshine (289 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. But, it's okay if Obama does this, right?
He's for change.

*sigh*
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. It's not like he bused people in from out of state for the debate audience.
That would be bad, remember?
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. But if the students on those busses are attending college in Iowa
they can legally caucus. So what is wrong with what the Obama campaign is doing?
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NCarolinawoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:24 AM
Original message
How many Illinois students attend Iowa Colleges?
Looking at the geography, I'd guess that it's a lot more than students from Delaware, NY, NC, etc.

This is another weakness in the caucus system versus the primary system, IMHO. Wasn't Dr. Dean shown on tape complaining of the difficulties with the caucus system?
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
57. Well, Dean admitted later that he had never seen an Iowa caucus and was complaining
about caucuses he had seen in another state (for the life of me I can't remember where now).

But, how is this a weakness? How is participation by young people in a political process a weakness? The majority of these people will be in Iowa during the general election (and local primaries too). They can be called upon to volunteer and particpate and help the party. Why wouldn't they be asked?

Why omit people from the party when for the majority of the year they live in the state?
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
58. Obama surely knows how many. And is calling for them to claim Iowa as their caucus home.
It may be "legal" as some claim, but its not right.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #58
69. Which is both legal and 'right' by Iowa law and Iowa Caucus rules n/t
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #69
90. Bus loads of kids from Illinois to caucus for Obama in Iowa...
might be "legal", but its not "right."
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #90
126. Bus loads of Iowa college students who went home for winter break and received a ride back to Iowa
in order to participate in the political process us not only legal it is right.
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maddiejoan (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #126
132. Free ride back to College?
Actually sounds like bribery to me.

Something very Tammany Hall about it --will they also get a free beer and a hooker?
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #132
137. Not a free ride back to college
a ride to/from the caucuses.

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maddiejoan (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #137
138. who is picking up the tab?
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #138
139. It is no different than volunteers who drive people back and forth to the polling sites
on election day.

I'm sure the Obama campaign will pick up the tab 'if' busses are used. However right now the campaign says that the students are arranging their own car pools.

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maddiejoan (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #139
141. If the Obama campaign spends a dime
then it's definately out of bounds.

it's still iffy if campaign volunteers are driving them in carpools.

Giving out free rides back and forth to caucus?
Stinks to high heavens if you ask me.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #141
143. You've never heard of volunteers driving folks to the polls?
It happens at every election here in Iowa.

We want to help people be involved with the process as much as possible here.

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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Donate to DU! Mon Dec-03-07 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #143
144. From bordering states?
How often do you imagine that happens in elections?
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #144
148. Probably happens more in the primaries than the general elections here
since the primary is in June and most colleges have let out for summer break.

Two colleges in Iowa come to mind. St. Ambrose in Davenport (across the Mississippi river from I think it's Moline) and Luther College in Decorah right across the boarder from Minnesota.

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maddiejoan (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #143
146. across state lines?
No I've never heard of that.

Guess I was an idiot for hitchiking 100 miles home in 1980 to vote for John Anderson.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #146
149. Call yourself what you want. n/t
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #126
134. They received something (a "free" bus trip) in exchange for their vote?
Edited on Mon Dec-03-07 01:38 PM by MethuenProgressive
Are you certain that's legal, debi? How much would that trip cost back to campus if the students had to pay for it themselves?
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #134
136. I called the local Obama office and asked them their plans
First of all no schedule for pick up or drop off has been set yet, but when it is set the ride will be to the caucuses and back home. There will be no free ride back to college and nothing 'of value' will be exchanged.

Second the staffer said that most of the students are arranging their own car pools rather than having to take the bus back and forth. Which is why no schedule is being set.

So to answer your question, yes I am certain what the Obama campaign is doing is legal.

You are welcome to make a call to the campaign yourself if you don't feel the information they provided me was correct or accurate.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Donate to DU! Mon Dec-03-07 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #136
140. Thanks for that. People are getting themselves freaked out for no reason
- well, other then legal voters actually caucusing. :wow:
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Donate to DU! Mon Dec-03-07 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
14. MYDD: Democratic Campaigns (Hillary, Dodd) Should Not Advocate Voter Disenfranchisement
Edited on Mon Dec-03-07 11:03 AM by Bleachers7
I just read a very disturbing piece in the Politico. It appears that both the Clinton and the Dodd campaigns are criticizing the Obama campaign for rallying students to return early to Iowa to participate in the January 3rd Caucus. In effect, what they are doing is advocating for the disenfrachisement of young voters.

David Yepsen, the Dean of the Iowa press corps, stirred up this hornets nest in a blog post, The Illinois Caucus, in which he all but accused the Obama campaign of trying to rig the caucus and privileged the parochialism of "native Iowans" over the rights of young voters - a group often maligned (by Yepsen himself) for their lack of participation:


While it's legal for college students to register to vote in Iowa to do that, this raises the question of whether it's fair, or politically smart. No presidential campaign in memory has ever made such a large, open attempt to encourage students from out of state, many of whom pay out-of-state tuition, to participate in the caucuses. No other campaign appears to be doing it in this campaign cycle.

Tommy Vietor, a spokesman for Obama's campaign, said "we have no intention of doing something here that is in any way illegal or that will raise questions about the credibility of the caucuses." He said election laws allow students to register and vote where they go to college and that means they can caucus in those precincts as well.
<snip>

http://mydd.com/story/2007/12/2/111830/539

This is a fake crisis over Obama encouraging college students who normally caucus to come back early to caucus. It's BS.
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. "If you're not from Iowa, you can come back and caucus in your college neighborhood."
If they're voters, they're from Iowa, aren't they? If they're not, they're not.
The only BS here is from BO.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #16
31. Because the Supreme Court said so 30 years ago
This is not only petty, but it is wrong. Students have a presumptive right to a voting address where they go to school. They can't do both, vote from both home and school. The Republicans have been battling this concept ever since and the Democrats have defended it everywhere in the country. I am extremely sorry to see Democratic candidates using the Republican Playbook on students' voting rights and it's exactly what they are doing here. Iowa encourages student caucusing, in fact, and colleges are opening dorms early so that returning students have a place to sleep when they do it. If the primary calendar had not been so unutterably compressed and the original caucus date held, out of state students would have been snug in their dorms, anyway, going out to caucus (or not) as they choose.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #31
38. Thank goodness someone who understands the law and rules is here
Other than David Yepsen I wonder how many in Iowa are concerned about this? Of course, Iowans might actually know the law so maybe their not so worked up about it.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Donate to DU! Mon Dec-03-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #38
45. The only difference between 2008 and the past is the caucus is happening when schools are out
Edited on Mon Dec-03-07 11:24 AM by Bleachers7
That's the only difference. So these are people that would typically vote. All of the campaigns are encouraging people to come back and caucus.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #45
53. Yep, they are. Obama is just making it easier for these people to come back n/t
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Jim Lane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #31
73. You're absolutely right! This attack on Obama is absurd.
This was an issue in the 1970s. I was one of many students at the University of North Carolina whose right to vote in Chapel Hill was challenged by some of the local rednecks, who didn't like the way students were helping to elect progressive candidates. The court ruled in our favor.

This is not "cheating" or "shenanigans". What about the old fallback position, "Well, it may be legal, but it looks bad"? I think it looks bad for Democrats to be taking up a right-wing cause from decades ago, just because it happens to work to their advantage in this particular situation.

I'm not backing Obama, by the way.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #73
80. "it looks bad for Democrats to be taking up a right-wing cause from decades ago"
Thank you. It certainly does look bad and smells even worse.

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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #80
87. Maybe Precinct Caucus Chairs should ask for their 'papers' when they get off the bus n/t
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #87
103. Only Clinton or Dodd precinct chairs
Since obviously they're the ones who consider Iowa law, backed by federal law, lax in election protection. :eyes:
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #103
124. You forgot the rules established by the Iowa Democratic Party as well
The republicans will be requiring IDs this time around :puke:
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Donate to DU! Mon Dec-03-07 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #31
154. that's exactly what it is:
Republican.

It's sick to think that Democratic candidates would try to discourage legal residents from registering to vote.
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Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. I think it is politically foolish though
If Iowa were a primary state it would be different, with secret ballots rather than people literally "standing" for the person they support at a caucus meeting. Yes it is legal, and because it is legal it is not inproper, but a flock of out of staters wearing orange hats while campaigning for a candidate in 2004 was legal also. Voting is very personal in an Iowa caucus, with friends and neighbors taking cues from each other in a very public setting.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. Which is why it didn't happen in 2004
But this is different, because the people being offered the ride aren't out of state volunteers but student of Iowa colleges who are eligble to participate in the caucuses.
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Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #27
46. The distinction lies somewhere between technical and meaningful
If a student who lives in Iowa during the school season and usually returns to his/her former state when school is out of session, manages to still be involved with the local community rather than being an "Iowan" on campus grounds only, that student showing up at a caucus meeting on his or her own volition won't seem like a blatant outsider being used by a political machine. But if a bunch of students who none of the locals have ever seen before get off of an out of state bus after having seemingly having been recruited to vote in Iowa by one of the candidates, that might come off differently.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #46
51. If they have an Iowa address and are registered to vote, they can vote.
You don't have to be a political activist to participate in the caucuses.
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. "If you're not from Iowa, you can come back and caucus in your college neighborhood."
You say he's actually addressing people who *are* from Iowa by addressing them as "not from Iowa"?
And you don't see any reason anyone should wonder about the ethics here?
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #55
59. You are being purposely thick
An out of state Iowa college student is considered 'from Iowa' for the purpose of voting and participation in the caucuses IF the person chooses to become a registered voter in Iowa. They must provide and Iowa address on the voter registration form.

The law is clear. You are trying to cloud it.
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #59
70. "The law is clear. You are trying to cloud it. " *I'm* trying to cloud it??
That's an interesting spin on Obama's "If you're not from Iowa" get-out-the-vote push, debi.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #70
76. You keep saying Obama is cheating even though I've provided you with the Iowa law
that shows otherwise. You repeating it doesn't make it so.
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Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #51
65. I already said that: "Yes it is legal, and because it is legal it is not inproper"
I said that in my first post on this thread. That wasn't my point though, you actually addressed my point more in your first reply, we are moving backwards here.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #65
82. I didn't mean to argue. n/t
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #65
112. "because it is legal it is not inproper" I strongly disagree, Tom.
I'm old enough to remember many laws being highly improper. In fact, many still are. Aren't they?
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krb123 (19 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #112
116. You are correct in that something legal is not always proper, BUT
in this particular instance, there is nothing improper with what Obama or his supporters are doing.

Besides being fully legal, I see nothing wrong or immoral with students who reside in Iowa for the overwhelming majority of the year participating in Iowa's caucus.

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Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #112
130. Sure, but a case can be made either way about what a good law would say here
A logical case can certainly be made for those students being legally able to vote in Iowa. So since a law exists that defines who can and can not vote in this case, it is not inproper to follow that law, at least it is not obviously improper.

However whether or not long time Iowa resididents feel it is inproprer or not is a relevent political consideration. I would leave it to them to make their own subjective judgments, which likely will be made very public during the various caucuses.

It is difficult in politics to ignore strategies that are legal if opponents are also free to use those strategies. But some might feel there is too significant a risk of a local backlash and/or national bad press to attempt certain strategies.

If nothing else Obama's actions created a local controversy. If he now wins in Iowa it also provides a potential excuse that his opponents can use to minimize Obama's margin of victory. Those are political downside considerations. Winning of course carries a big political upside.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
17. It's legal and within the rules. The Obama campaign is doing nothing wrong
Here's part of a memo that a former chairman of the Iowa Democratic Party wrote in 2003.

<snip>

Iowa Code Section 43.91 provides that only eligible Iowa voters may participate in the caucus. The only expansion upon that right is the additional factor is that if they are not an eligible voter on the evening of the caucus they will become one by the date of the next general election.

To become a voter in Iowa one must have a residence in the State. To have a residence in Iowa, one must have a home in the precinct "with the intent to remain there permanently or for a definite or indefinite or indeterminable length of time." (Iowa Code Section 48.5A). Further, a non-resident, with a voting registration in another state is not eligible to register in Iowa (i.e. "not claim the right to vote in more than one place." See Section 48A.5(1)(d).

Additionally, there is a limitation on what can be established as a residence. Under Code Section 48A.5A Determination of Residence (2) provides that "a residence for purposes of this chapter cannot be established in a commercial or industrial building that is not normally used for residential purposes", i.e. which I think we can reasonably take to mean not a hotel or a campaign headquarters.

(Note: if this discussion continues, there is a specific exception for students, who may declare either their campus residence or their hometown as their residence, but not both. See 48A.5 (5)).

<snip>

Since Iowa now has same-day registration the students can be bussed into Iowa from their home state and register at their caucus that evening.

++++

David Yepsen is a tool who is trying to stir up controversy where there is none. The man loves to see his name in print and I'm sure hopes that another Meet The Press or C-SPAN moment will come from his article. He's been doing this long enough that he knows better.

The Iowa Caucuses are clean and fair. The complaining campaigns are blowing smoke and/or sorry that they didn't think of this first.


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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #17
28. "To become a voter in Iowa one must have a residence in the State. "
"If you're not from Iowa, you can come back and caucus in your college neighborhood."
So. It is cheating to encourage people who are not from Iowa to attend the causcus.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. Read all of it instead of cherry-picking
"To have a residence in Iowa, one must have a home in the precinct "with the intent to remain there permanently or for a definite or indefinite or indeterminable length of time." (Iowa Code Section 48.5A). Further, a non-resident, with a voting registration in another state is not eligible to register in Iowa (i.e. "not claim the right to vote in more than one place." See Section 48A.5(1)(d)."

As long as the student has a residence (and for the purposes of the law a dorm room or apartment is a residence) they can register to vote in Iowa (the last part means that then they can't register to also vote in their home state - they have to choose).

It is legal. It is not cheating.

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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #32
60. True,
And when Barry Bonds used steroids, it was not against MLB rules. But, was it right?
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #60
62. No, but the law in Iowa is clear and out of state students who attend Iowa colleges
can legally register to vote and caucus. They are not the same thing.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Donate to DU! Mon Dec-03-07 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #17
30. Thanks for clearing that up
I may start a thread with your info if the usual suspects get out of hand...


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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #30
40. Please do so, but also ask for imput from Iowans
see how the folks who may know the law feel about it.

(Oh, and remember, when these students LEGALLY participate in the caucuses it bars them from participating in their home state's contest. So, for every person who is from Illinois caucusing for Obama that is one less vote IN Illinois for Obama).
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
25. Did anybody click on the link? Here is the rest
the paragraph right after the one quoted in the OP

Didn't Paul Simon, Dick Gephardt, and Walter Mondale all have similar efforts in '84 and '88? All three were from adjacent states. That said, this piece is going to grow in legend. This is the type of stuff the Clinton-supporting blogs will run wild with.


Just to put things into perspective a bit...

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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
29. Hmmm, I wonder how many out of state students....
do supporters of the other candidates have in Iowa? If Obama can potentially bring "thousands" of these students to caucus for him, then should the others do the same to even the playing field?
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. How many of those "If you're not from Iowa" students will vote at home too?
Primaries to swing on 18 year olds who vote at home and at school too? Yikes.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #34
63. That is illegal n/t
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #34
94. That is just as illegal as snowbirds
voting in both NY and FL.
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Tyrone Slothrop (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #34
147. You're not very bright, are you? n/t
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #29
47. Yes, and I think the complainers didn't think about it and are now
having a knee-jerk temper tantrum.
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #47
52. You say the 'complainers' are just jealous they didn't think to cheat first?
wow.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #52
61. It's not cheating, and you are being obtuse n/t
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murbley40 Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
33. kick
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Tellurian (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #33
117. double kick
:dem:
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
36. Give me a break - where did people here register when they were in college?
I registered in my Big Ten school in the early 1970s as soon as the law passed. The Democrats always argued that it was the right of students to do so.



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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #36
42. Kennebunk. Voted absentee, like the law said I was supposed to.
Edited on Mon Dec-03-07 12:09 PM by MethuenProgressive
And I wanted to vote in my local elections.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #42
54. What law?
I went to school in-state, but IU made it very clear that we had the choice of voting in Bloomington.
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #54
64. You can have only one legal residence. That's a law. Except in Iowa?
I lived in Kennebunk. I went to school away. When elections were held at home and I couldn't vote in person I voted absentee. Legally. Never heard of it?
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #64
67. A person can only vote in one state. Iowa law gives them the opportunity to vote here
Where you lived or where you went to school don't really govern Iowa law.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #64
84. The interpretation in Indiana when I was a kid
was you could choose either. In 2004, it was the same at the NYC college my daughter attended.
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desi (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #42
71. What I was thinking..
Since the students have to register in order to caucus in Iowa would they then have to re-register at their home state in order to vote for their Senators and Representative in the General next year? Of course they would have to. This BS is akin to ReTHUGS voting for the Democratic candidate in open primaries so as to have the "weaker" Dem run against their ReTHUG. This is right out of the ReTHUG dirty tricks play-book.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #71
77. Won't they still be in Iowa for the general election?
Unless they've graduated or moved back home they'll be in Iowa in November and vote in the Iowa general elections.
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desi (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #77
93. A hypothetical
Obama does not win the nomination and runs for the Senate again and those students from IL going to college in Iowa wish to vote for him instead of the one running in Iowa....???
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krb123 (19 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #93
96. An answer
a) Obama wouldn't be up for reelection in the US Senate until 2010 - most current students will have graduated by then, anyway.

b) The general election is in November, when all students who go to schools in Iowa will physically be in Iowa.
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desi (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #96
110. Good try...
A) Most? Freshmen, in-state Graduate Students...??? And we all know that not all students graduate in 4 years.

"b) The general election is in November, when all students who go to schools in Iowa will physically be in Iowa."

Exactly...which makes my point. They can NOT vote for Obama if they have registered to participate in the Iowa caucus and MUST re-register in IL and ask for an absentee ballot. Of course that applies to those students from IL who do not wish to vote for the local/national Iowa candidates or issues who have NOT graduated.

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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #93
121. Another hypothetical
those students have become politically active here in Iowa and want to see their local officals and U.S. Senator and member of Congress from Iowa get reelected...???

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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #36
128. I registered and voted in Humboldt County
But I could have kept my registration in Sacramento or Shasta. :shrug:
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
37. Seems to me that the Clinton supporters are getting more and more desperate.
Do you want these kids not to vote because they cannot go back home and vote? This has been done again and again. There were even allegation in 2004 that the Dean campaign was pushing its own volunteers to register in Iowa, giving the name of their hotel room as an address. Nothing new there. Bad enough that such a small part of the country decides who will be the nominee. Why should we prevent people who are legally entitled to participate in this choice to do so...
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
43. Keep pushing this
Piss off motivated students and it will go down as the Yepsen High Student Turnout Act...and you know who they're voting for.
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #43
50. Really counting on that "If you're not from Iowa" vote, eh?
Obama was in Boston yesterday begging people from Massachusetts to go to New Hampshire and support him. Sounds like a pattern of behavior to me. Why not try to get people who *are* from Iowa, and who *are* from New Hampshire to support you?
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Donate to DU! Mon Dec-03-07 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #50
56. What is the exact quote?
Did he ask them to go to NH and volunteer? Did he actually say that they should go there and vote? I bet he didn't. Show us the quotes.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #50
66. He's evil
I just hope his worldwide Muslim Phantom Voter Program story stays under wraps.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #66
72. You know what, I'm not even an Obama supporter.
I just hate it when folks who don't know the law won't admit it.

Obama is doing nothing wrong.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #72
74. Thanks for making that factual point
I'm sure that's what will matter in the end.
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #72
85. debi, just because he's exploiting a loophole and recruiting 'non-Iowan' voters
doesn't mean it is Right. Thanks for explaining the law - that in my opinion has a loophole large enough to drive bus loads of Illinois residents through.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #85
91. It's not a loop-hole.
Why would you think that? Iowa law is just different than the laws where you grew up.

That doesn't make it wrong.

It just makes it different.

Iowa is clean and fair.



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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #91
104. "Why would you think that?" The law that allows "If you're not from Iowa" to vote in Iowa?
Gee. Why would I think that?
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krb123 (19 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #85
101. How can you classify an Iowa student as a "non-Iowan" and "Illinois resident"
when they live in Iowa for the overwhelming majority of the year?

I'm not sure what logic you are using, but whatever it is, I guess it would mean that Hillary Clinton is an Illinois resident...or an Arkansas resident....certainly not a New York resident, though - especially one who should be able to run for a New York Senate seat, no less...
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #101
106. The Obama Handout: "If you are not from Iowa, you can come back for the Iowa caucus..."
Here's the handout. I'll let Obama tell you in his own words who he is addressing:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
"If you are not from Iowa, you can come back for the Iowa caucus in your Iowa neighborhood."
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krb123 (19 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #106
107. I am "not from" Illinois - I grew up in, and am from Connecticut.
But I live in and have resided in Illinois for the past 7 years. So I obviously have a right to vote in Illinois, which I do....and students who may be "from" Illinois, but go to school in Iowa and live there the overwhelming majority of the year obviously have the right to vote in Iowa (as a matter of fairness as well as a matter of the law).
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MethuenProgressive (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #107
109. You're welcome for the answer to your question. Have you another?
Or have you decided this thread is 'all about you'?
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Name removed (0 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #109
122. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #50
68. Any person from any state can 'support' a candidate
I thought we were talking about caucusing and voting.
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desi (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #50
83. What's next?
Begging the ReTHUGS to vote for him in the caucuses and open primaries since they can then vote ReTHUG in the general next year?
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Dec-03-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #43
98. Well - HRC did complain that young people don't vote in high numbers.
This could change that - if Obama and Iowa officials make it clear the kids have that right.
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oasis (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list