Do Democrats want to lose this election?

[ginchinchili]

When the two front runners are Senators Clinton and Obama, one has to seriously wonder. I realize no one likes to read anything negative about the candidate they support, but these two talented senators each have a serious flaw that could very easily give the Republicans another presidential victory.

Sen. Clinton's problem is the baggage thing. Yeah, we've heard it all before, ad nauseum, but we deny it at our Party's, and our country's, peril. There is not one candidate who comes close to having the detractors that Hillary Clinton has. I saw a bumper sticker on my way home from work yesterday that read "Anyone But Hillary," and I'm not making that up. I've gotten several emails, jokes about Hillary. I've seen a cartoon video clip someone made. I hear it at work.Today I came across a Hillary nut cracker in a catalog. The animosity is palpable. There's not one other candidate that I hear anything like what I hear about Sen. Clinton. As it is now, the Republicans have very little to run on, and would just love for Hillary to win the nomination so that their Party would finally have something to get excited about. Why handicap the Democrats chances of winning the White House back after 8 years of the worst president in our nation's history? Why hand the Republicans a stick to beat us with? There are more qualified candidates if we just look all of them over objectively, and ignore the idiot news media.

Sen. Obama's problem is his lack of experience. His supporters either say that he does have the experience or that it's not important. He stated recently that his foreign policy experience consists of 4 years he spent overseas from ages 6 - 10. Clinton's campaign is having a field day with this, and so will the Republicans. Imagine a campaign ad were they show scenes of our military in battle in Iraq and Afghanistan, and at the end of the ad the have Obama saying that his foreign policy experience ended when he was 10 years old. It would be the Republican's campaign mantra: 9/11 - no foreign policy experience; Iraq - no foreign policy experience; Afghanistan - no foreign policy experience. Need I mention the political strife in Pakistan--a Muslim country with a nuclear arsenal? I guarantee the Republican will remind us. Again, why take this serious, unnecessary risk? He's already made a few rookie mistakes in his campaign. Such mistakes are costly in the general election. This highlights another area where he has limited experience. I'm a fan of Sen. Obama. He's young, smart, and will get the experience he needs to become president. He'll have my support in 8 years. But he's not ready and, again, there are more qualified candidates that won't put our November victory at risk. We just can't afford to gamble this one away.

[Mythsaje]

1. I am as rabidly anti-Hillary as anyone...

But the Republican field is SO disquieting this time around, and the deep disgust with their policies running so deep through the electorate, that I don't think ANY of them have a chance of beating any of our candidates--even Hillary.

Assuming they don't make some very bad missteps along the way in the general.

[neutron]

7. Well I'm not anyone

She is a staunch liberal.

She was the FIRST to stand up for MoveOn. She voted against the senate censorship of
MoveOn when Obama somehow didn't want to vote - the way he kinda cops out on voting
on quite a few bills.

Edwards has been villifying her in the blogs to the point that people are ashamed to say they
support her.

Bill was one Hell of a president, and she will be too.

Forget the crap you've been brainwashed with in the blogs and take a fresh look at this
fine democratic candidate.

[Mythsaje]

14. I'm not brainwashed...

I have very good reasons for opposing her. She doesn't have ANY stance about the Class War, which is the great unspoken war we're fighting right now. Get that? NO stance. She's a big favorite of the corporate class and thinks that ALL lobbyists "represent real Americans."

Until you read MY stuff, don't assume I'm "brainwashed." I think for myself.

[emilyg]

17. Bravo. Welcome to DU.

[silverojo]

58. Bill "one helluva president"?

Ah, yes, the man who took a machete to the safety net and called it "welfare reform". Screw him, and Hillary too! We need a President who CARES about the poor and middle class!

[mtnsnake]

64. Awesome post, neutron!

:toast:

[sendero]

74. Please.......

... I'm SO tired of this idea HRC is a Liberal.

She wants to continue the war. Disqualified, on the spot.

[Harper_is_Bush]

21. why are you rabidly anti-Hillary?

[ginchinchili]

24. Because our country can't afford 4 - 8 more years of a Repub in the WH.

[Harper_is_Bush]

26. Hillary is not a Republican.

You can sit back and identify all of the votes that you disagree with, but you're not entitled to lie about what she is.

Period.

[AndyTiedye]

32. Perhaps He Means That She Would Lose to her Republican Opponent

[Harper_is_Bush]

36. we'll have to wait and see what he means

[ginchinchili]

67. That poster knows exactly what I mean.

He/she is just baiting me because the truth I posted is upsetting to her/him, and many others, I'm afraid.

[Harper_is_Bush]

80. No actually, I don't.

And I'm not attempting to bait you. If anyone is baiting anyone, perhaps calling a Dem a Repub is what fits the description.

Don't reply to me, that's quite alright. Consider this hook bait-free.

[Mythsaje]

30. Because she either doesn't understand

how the top-down Class War is ruining this country, or she's complicit with it. On every issue where John Edwards comes down on the correct side, she either has no comment, or comes down on the wrong side. Even Obama seems to have SOME clue about what's going on, but she operates as if the only people who matter are the high-rollers.

"Lobbyists represent real Americans." Well, some do. Some represent powerful multi-nationals who are screwing up our whole system of government, injecting vast amounts of money into the mix... not only influencing legislation, but being allowed to WRITE legislation that benefits them to the disadvantage of the most vulnerable among us.

If she can't tell the difference between corporate and industry lobbyists and those who DO represent real people and not the Fat Cats, she's not the candidate for me.

[Harper_is_Bush]

38. ok, explain this

I didn't hear her display that she can't "tell the difference between corporate and industry lobbyists and those who DO represent real people...".

Qutoe that for me, please.

[Mythsaje]

40. I already did...

From her own mouth. "Lobbyists represent real Americans."

Like I said...some do. Some don't. But she didn't say that, did she?

[Harper_is_Bush]

79. So, because she left out the word "some" in that short phrase, you extrapolate

to mean she meant all?

Bit of a minor thing to hook into there...

[1corona4u]

45. Oh, you're so right about Edwards...

not. Here's a quote for you;

Fairly or not, to critics and many locals, Edwards's new estate--a 28,200-square-foot, $6 million affair a few miles outside of Chapel Hill--has become a potent symbol of hypocrisy when placed against his political message of personal sacrifice, environmental conservation, and economic division. Top aides were furious that the Edwardses decided to build it just as they were launching the campaign. Elizabeth has said she has no regrets; she worked closely with an architect to design the house, down to the wide-plank pine floors and soapstone fireplace. (It also has a 1,762-square-foot room called "John's Lounge," two performance stages, a pool, and basketball and squash courts.)We learn some other stuff in Men's Vogue that Vogue doesn't tell us, like that John Edwards rarely voted before running for office, that his father is a Republican and that he's kind of a huge phony! Also, Elizabeth = pretty important to the Edwards campaign!At 58, Elizabeth is more than Edwards's wife. She's the core of his political life. The two met in the early seventies at the University of North Carolina law school, where Elizabeth, the sophisticated, well-read daughter of a naval officer stationed overseas, was seen by classmates as much more likely to succeed than her husband. "I think she helped shape him politically," Shrum says. "She is a progressive, and I think he was much less political when he started out."...As Edwards's key political adviser, Elizabeth is a major force behind the scenes, micromanaging details down to which tie he will wear and how he should respond to press questions. When Kerry joked during the 2004 primary campaign that Edwards was still in diapers while he was fighting in Vietnam, Elizabeth suggested heavy retaliation. (Her husband talked her out of it.) According to a former campaign staffer, she once dressed down an aide who questioned Edwards's judgment during a campaign meeting and fired three traveling chiefs of staff in a matter of a few weeks. It was she who pushed for a more sophisticated Web presence for the 2008 campaign, including the hiring of two bloggers who quit after coming under fire for their comments about religion.Not that she really likes to cop to any of that."I just do mom things," she says of her official campaign duties. "John was home for several days, so I tried to cook the things he liked and stuff like that." I thought she might tell me her secret chicken-fried-steak recipe, but when pressed, she has a hard time remembering exactly what she cooked for him.

-----------------------------------------------

Sounds like a "high roller" house to me....

[Mythsaje]

46. And that takes away from the fact he's speaking

for those who don't have what he has?

Not at all.

He's speaking for the people who doesn't have the things he has. That goes an awful long way.

[1corona4u]

47. You can believe him....

if you are so inclined, but if you think he hasn't forgotten where he came from, I think you're lying to yourself. I use to like John, but then he started saying stupid shit, and I started to see right through him. In fact, last year, I was wanting him to start his run early. But the more he talked the less I liked him. I don't, for a nano second, think he gives a shit about the working class person. Just because he and Elizabeth still go to Wendy's for their anniversary doesn't convince me.

But to be honest, I could care less about the economy, or jobs, or the price of anything. What I care about the most is foreign policy. We need someone that can repair our reputation in the world. If we don't do that immediately, nothing else matters. I don't think John is the one to do that. I just don't. Never will.

[Mythsaje]

49. Our foreign policy

is tied directly into the Class War. The one none of the other candidates are even fighting. Or even mentioning.

Our foreign policy is directly tied to making money for the defense industry, the energy concerns, and high-profile domestic retailers, in roughly that order. Decisions are made to benefit them that are detrimental not only to foreign countries, but also to American workers.

It's not as if it's all separate. It isn't. It's all part of the same damn picture and anyone who doesn't see that isn't looking closely enough.

[1corona4u]

53. Just stop....

I'm not buying what you're selling, ok? Joe Biden is not tied to the "class war". Which is why he's my candidate. He makes $165,200 a year for christsakes, takes the train to work everyday....that's the kind of normal person who will work for the common person, not some starched shirt sitting in a 28,000 sq. ft house....

Here's the real story;

Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del.
Earned income: $193,900.
Honoraria (all donated to charity): $800.
Major assets: Bank accounts and life insurance policies, $22,008-$155,000.
Major sources of unearned income: Life insurance dividends, $1,001-$2,500.
Major liabilities: Loan against life insurance policies, $15,001-$50,000; lines of credit, $114,002-$300,000; credit union note, $10,001-$15,000.
Narrative: Biden's income includes his $165,200 Senate salary and a $28,700 teaching stipend from Widener University.
His wife, Jill, teaches at Delaware Technical and Community College, but Biden is not required to report her salary. Jill Biden's assets, which include money market funds, real estate trusts and a pension fund, are worth $40,012-$250,000.
Biden's honoraria was for an appearance with comedian Bill Maher. He has a contract to write a book and received $112,000, half of his advance, from publisher Random House in 2005.


John Edwards
Former Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C.
Earned income (includes hedge fund salary, speaking fees and book royalties): $1.25 million.
Honoraria: None
Major assets: Edwards and his wife reported $29.5 million in stocks, bonds, nonresidential property and other investments. That includes millions invested through Fortress Investment Group, a hedge fund that employed Edwards. Edwards' largest holding was $5 million to $25 million in a money market fund, Columbia Cash Reserves.
Major sources of unearned income: Dividends and interest from investments of $5.9 million, including Fortress managed funds.
Major liabilities: Edwards listed a variable line of credit from Bank of America of $500,001 to $1 million and a mortgage on one of his Raleigh buildings worth between $15,001 and $50,000.
Narrative: The single biggest source of Edwards' income was $479,512 paid to him by Fortress Investment Group for part-time consulting. He also received $395,000 in speaking fees and $40,000 as director of the University of North Carolina Center on Poverty, Work and Opportunity. He also received $333,334 in proceeds form his book "Home: The Blueprints of Our Lives."

Yeah, he remembers where he came from.....couldn't help but notice all of the financial interest in there too....

[Mythsaje]

54. None of that matters to me...

What matters is the message. Not the messenger.

And the only thing I'm "selling" are my novels. The rest I'm giving away for free.

[ginchinchili]

68. Wow! Pretty impressive post there 1corona4u.

It's insightful.

[bvar22]

70. Some graphics for the reading impaired.

[jgraz]

2. Both Obama and Hillary risk a serious flameout in the general

All that needs to happen is for Hillary to get caught in one of her many pandering triangulations or Obama to do or say something that makes him look like a rank amateur. The media echo chamber will chew them up.

[neutron]

9. Oh yeah, so let's all vote for the biggest poot in the heap

Cut out crap and go home to your wife and family Edwards.

[Mythsaje]

15. Another rabid anti-edwards freak, eh.

Yeah, just what we need.

[saracat]

41. Nice.Really classy.Must be a supporter of the alleged frontrunner.Only they are that crass.

[maddiejoan]

27. You use phrases like --

"triangulation" to describe Sen. Clinton and "Rank amateur" to describe Sen. Obama and then you have the nerve to warn others about the media echo chamber??

:rofl:

[Mythsaje]

34. Triangulation is the DLC modus operandi...

It was also a big part of the FIRST Clinton Administration.

[maddiejoan]

61. echo.

[jgraz]

48. Yes I do

These are not $400 haircuts or faux charges of UFO looniness. Both of the knocks against these two have more than a nugget of truth to them. Hillary especially risks not only alienating swing voters but also reluctant progressives.

[maddiejoan]

62. echo echo.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

3. You are repeating MSM spin about Obama.

What's Rudy's foreign policy experience? What's Huckabee or Romney's? Given they are the 3 who have the best shot at this point, I don't see how they can make an issue about it without inviting scrutiny upon themselves.

[davidinalameda]

16. it's not just foreign policy experience

it's experience in general

Huckabee is a two-term governor

Rudy ran the largest city in American for eight years and was a federal prosecutor

Romney was a governor and made a crap load of money in the private sector

Obama has served a few years in the US Senate and how ever many terms in the Illinois state senate

[mrreowwr_kittty]

18. None of which is foreign policy experience. Rudy gets confused just talking about it.

Obviously, judging from the number of Governors who have gone on to the White House, voters are willing to overlook a lack of foreign policy experience.

[ginchinchili]

20. But never in our history did we elect a governor to the WH while at war.

[neutron]

4. So "pretty boy" fraud is our only prayer

The Edwards camp should cool the bashing.
It makes people scrutinize him closer, and find out that his
voting record negates what he claims to stand for.

from Edwards' voting record:
http://votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=21107

02/02/2000 Bankruptcy Reform bill - Voted Y
11/19/2002 Homeland Security Act of 2002 - Voted Y
05/21/2004 Condemning Iraq Abuse of Prisoners resolution - DID NOT VOTE
10/11/2002 Use of Military Force Against Iraq - Voted Y
10/06/2004 National Intelligence Reform Act of 2004 - DID NOT VOTE
10/25/2001 USA Patriot Act of 2001 - Voted Y
09/14/2001 Military Force Authorization resolution - Voted Y
09/16/2003 FCC Media Ownership bill - DID NOT VOTE
09/19/2000 U.S.-China Relations Act of 2000 - Voted Y

[Midwestern Democrat]

13. The OP is a Biden supporter. NT

[gateley]

43. So am I. And.....?

The OP isn't the one slinging insults around here, if you'll notice -it's the other supporters who are rolling up their sleeves and getting into it.


EDIT to remove a snarky statement and instead say Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Midwestern Democrat]

59. I wasn't criticizing the OP or Biden (who is my second choice).

The poster I responded to seemed to assume the intent of the OP was to sell Edwards as our only chance at victory and I was merely pointing out that the OP actually supports Biden.

Thank you for the welcome to DU.

[Fredda Weinberg]

5. Any Dem candidate will face a well funded barrage. HRC is ready n/t

[AndyTiedye]

6. DRAFT GORE!

You know who we need as our nominee. AL GORE! Nobody else can do it.

[neutron]

12. Dear God, YES

is it too late?

[Auntie Bush]

8. So how about Joe Biden? I bet they'd be afraid of him. n/t

[zulchzulu]

10. Name me the candidate and I'll tell you their "weaknesses"

As for Obama's foreign policy experience, he is on the Senate committees for Foreign Relations, Homeland Security, Veterans Affairs, Health, Education and Labor and Pensions.

He studied political science with an emphasis on international relations and Columbia.

He's been on three major trips overseas as part of an official Senate delegation, meeting with U.S. generals, and/or foreign leaders. Along with Senator Lugar, he has travelled to the former Soviet states to inspect the destruction of WMDs. He has been to Iraq and met with U.S. generals. He's toured Kuwait, Jordan, Israel and the Palestinian territories. He has visited various African countries, including Kenya, where his father is from.

Better yet, he was against the Iraq war and certainly spoke out against the new ruse of giving Bush a free ticket to attack Iran.

I'll take Obama against ANY of the Republicans in 2008. He has a lot of crossover appeal and would take whoever he runs against to the mat and make sure they get their ass kicked in the General Election.

[1corona4u]

11. I totally agree..they will give it away. n/t

[Harper_is_Bush]

19. Still no response from you to any reply.....may I ask a question?

Who do you want to win?

[LoZoccolo]

22. When the two front runners are Senators Clinton and Obama...

...then they are enjoying the most support.

[ginchinchili]

25. Yes, from Democrats. Thus the op subject heading.

[CTLawGuy]

23. does Giuliani have FP experience?

does Romney? Does Mike Huckabee? Let's just say I'm not too worried about it.

[Beacool]

29. Ghoulini's foreign policy experience

comprises of once throwing Arafat from Lincoln Center.

[CTLawGuy]

42. I was gonna say

failing to prevent 9/11, and also putting the anti-terrorism command center in the biggest terrorist target in NYC.

That's about it.

[mzmolly]

28. Every candidate has "baggage" by the end of the campaign season.

Obama will certainly choose a running mate who has foreign policy experience.

[Basileus Basileon]

31. So, then who is Mr./Ms. Perfect?

Edwards, who has apologized for his entire (brief) Senate career? Richardson, who could lose a debate to a pile of wet leaves? Biden, who carries with him 30 years of Senate baggage, as well as a number of embarrassing gaffes and incidences of plagiarism? Gore, who isn't running? Kucinich and Gravel, for whom a full detail of unelectability would take paragraphs? Dodd, whose own mother had difficulty remembering his face?

Who is the non-flawed candidate?

[AndyTiedye]

39. That is Why We Have to DRAFT GORE!

DRAFT GORE!

[Basileus Basileon]

44. Gore's got his weaknesses, too.

A lot of the dirt from 2000 and before stuck; his favorable/unfavorable ratings aren't much different than HRC's are, IIRC. Moreover, he runs the risk of making global warming and the Nobel Peace Prize look like Just Another Campaign Issue.

[1corona4u]

50. Biden?

Biden, who carries with him 30 years of Senate baggage, as well as a number of embarrassing gaffes and incidences of plagiarism?

Professional Board Clears Biden In Two Allegations of Plagiarism
Print Save Share
Del.icio.usDiggFacebookNewsvinePermalinkAP
Published: May 29, 1989
LEAD: Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. was cleared of allegations that he committed plagiarism in law school by a panel under the authority of the Delaware Supreme Court, The News Journal reported today.

Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. was cleared of allegations that he committed plagiarism in law school by a panel under the authority of the Delaware Supreme Court, The News Journal reported today.

The Delaware Democrat withdrew from the 1988 Presidential campaign after accusations that he had quoted the British Labor Party leader, Neil Kinnock, without attribution and had plagiarized an article while attending Syracuse University's law school.

Mr. Biden called his failure to attribute the quotes to Mr. Kinnock an oversight.

The alleged law school plagiarism involved an essay Mr. Biden wrote in 1965 for an introductory class on legal methodology. 'A Personal Vindication'

The Senator ended his Presidential campaign Sept. 23, 1987, and, because the allegations involved his standing as a lawyer, he notified the state Supreme Court about them later that year.

The court's Board on Professional Responsibility, consisting of lawyers and non-lawyers, ruled on Dec. 21, 1987, that Mr. Biden had not violated any rules.

Mr. Biden said he decided not to publicize the ruling, which was confidential. ''I guess I had in the back of my mind . . . this was more of a personal vindication than a political one,'' he said.

But he added that he had decided to divulge the ruling because he expected ''somebody would go back someday and check. And I knew there was a hard record there.''

L. Susan Faw, independent disciplinary counsel for the board, confirmed that the ruling had cleared Mr. Biden.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE1DD1230F93AA15756C0A96F948260

[ginchinchili]

73. There really isn't much the Repubs can use to go after Joe on.

Spoke to a lady friend of mine at work today whose opinion I respect, and asked her if she's decided who she's supporting in the primary. She immigrated here from Germany so she can't actually vote, though I know she leans to the left. She said that she wasn't sure, but she didn't want Obama or Clinton to win, basically for the reason I give on the op, and this is before I said one word about where I stood. She probably assumed I was supporting Clinton or Obama since they're the only ones we hear about, but she gave her assessment anyway. I asked her what she thought about Joe Biden. She said she'd heard of him, but that was about it. I told her to check him out. Maybe she'll have some influence on her American husband and their kids, all older and able to vote.

[weeve]

33. Totally agree.

With Hillary ( and even Obama ) as the nominee , we are very likely to see another Republican as the next President ... one who will probably be able to replace three liberal Supreme Court Justices ( Stevens, Souter, Ginsberg ). Are you willing to risk decades of 8-1 Supreme Court decisions, to satisfy one woman's drive for power? Especially when she's the most hawkish, corporate-friendly, least progressive of the lot ?!?

I need to get one of those bumper stickers.

[Didereaux]

55. oh for gawds sake Hillary pushed for the Ginsberg nomination!! get your facts straight

[Basileus Basileon]

35. dupe delete

[BenDavid]

37. Here we go again with all the negatives about HRC. Oh

ye of little faith. Most of you are so gullible it makes be wanna barf.This hate Hillary fever reminds me of the GOP's impeachment fever back in 1998. Bill's impeachment was like a criminal assault and battery. NOTHING was going to stop that impeachment because they (gop) had the fever.

The GOP was "caught up" with impeachment fever - that's all they could see or hear. Bill's approval rating was in the 70s - and voters clearly didn't want him to be impeached, but like the criminal who can't stop until he assaults enough, it was GOING to happen.

Hell, the GOP lost seats in November of 1998 - but that didn't matter to them. NOTHING was going to stop that impeachment because they had the fever. They lived and breathed impeachment the way some people on this very forum are now living and breathing "Stop her!"

IF YOU,LIKE ANOTHER CANDIDATE BETTER THAN HRC,VOTE FOR HIM OR HER...... But when I read some of the hate, and gop talking points directed towards HRC, you got the fever and that tells me something.

And to THOSE DEMOCRATS, "I'll vote Republican before I'll vote for Her," We true Democrats need to worry because their "Stop her!" fever is turning them into what the GOP was in 1998.

Ben David

[ilovesunshine]

60. Right on Ben David!

BRAVA!!

[gateley]

51. You present a thoughtful and very pragmatic concern, G. Thanks. nt

[Steely_Dan]

52. I totally agree...

...with your post. I am an unashamed Biden supporter because I honestly believe that he is the most qualified candidate.

My question for anyone willing to respond is:

Who are the Republicans most afraid of facing in the general election? It is my humble opinion that they are scared shitless of having to face Biden. It is also my humble opinion that Biden will do much better in Iowa than anyone has ventured to guess. I see him finishing a strong third (maybe fourth).

As a side note...
I rarely, if ever, see a Biden supporter bashing other candidates. They have (for the most part) tried to keep their heads above the bloodbath that has become this board. They refuse to eat their own. They have merely set out the reasons that their candidate is the most qualified without resorting to character assassination.

Ask yourself who the most qualified candidate is. Particularly in the one area of foreign affairs. Please, tell me any other candidate that has Mr. Biden's experience.

I hope that I conduct my affairs in the world or reality and pragmatism. In light of that, I am compelled to support Joe Biden.

-Paige

[CnAnPB]

56. Barack Hussein Obama is a worry for me

Before you get pissed at me for using "Hussein" just think about how this will be used by the rethug machine! Think about the 'RED STATE' mentality.

[babylonsister]

66. Thank you for your concern. nt

[CnAnPB]

72. ur welcome and

have a very happy thanksgiving!

[eridani]

57. The real problem with both is that they are sucking up to corporations n/t

[riqster]

63. Nobody has cast a ballot yet.

There are no front-runners.

[babylonsister]

65. Pls. explain all the experience Cheney and Rumsfeld have and how that's

worked out for us. Maybe it's time to look at this whole picture differently. Obama might just use his intellect and common sense to further our cause. Experience obviously ain't all it's cracked up to be.
And BTW, screw the m$$m and the rethugs. They are not weighing in on anything to improve this country.

[ginchinchili]

69. It's not just time spent on matters of foreign policy.

You have to also factor in their positions, what they've done, and what they've tried to get done. In that light, Sen. Biden and the Cheney gang are light years apart.

You bring out a good point, part of what I'm trying to get at in this post. We have to analyze the current state of domestic and current affairs and thoroughly, and objectively, weigh the pros and cons of each candidate. This is the approach that has led me to back Sen. Biden, who I didn't start out supporting, but he's the closest thing we have to a complete package in the 2 areas we should be considering: who will make a good president and who makes the strongest candidate in the general election.

[Steely_Dan]

75. Yep!

Took the words right from my mouth.

-Paige

[polichick]

71. Seems Dems are comfortable being used and abused. nt

[Donald Ian Rankin]

76. Clinton unelectable because she has a past, OBama unelectable because he has no past? What?

You're not going to find a candidate with experience but not baggage. One comes with the other.

[Imagevision]

77. Oh get real! - how much experience did the coked-out drunk George W. Bush have!?! all he

ended up being was nothing more then a... "spokesman for the new world order group"

[Life Long Dem]

78. I agree totally on the baggage Hillary carries.

As far as electability goes.

The media will have a lot of well documented material to work with going way back to when Bill Clinton ran for presidency. It's a risk I'd rather not take. We very much need a win.

There are issue's with Obama as well. Is he too black or too white? Is he too inexperienced? We all know how they play the terror game and you can bet they will play the terror game this time around as well. And if you put him up against Mr. 9/11, Rudy will come off as experienced. Obama may very well be qualified for the role of the presidency but we are talking electability here and this will hurt our chances.