Wow! The Planted Question Story Just Got Alot Creepier (CNN Interview)

[DrFunkenstein]

The college student who was told what question to ask at one of New York Sen. Hillary Clinton's campaign events says "voters have the right to know what happened" and she wasn't the only one who was planted.

Gallo-Chasanoff, whose story was first reported in the campus newspaper, said what happened was really pretty simple: She says a senior Clinton staffer asked if she'd like to ask the senator a question after an energy speech the Democratic presidential hopeful gave in Newton, Iowa, on November 6.

"I sort of thought about it, and I said 'Yeah, can I ask how her energy plan compares to the other candidates' energy plans?'" Gallo-Chasanoff said Monday night.

"'I don't think that's a good idea," the staffer said, according to Gallo-Chasanoff, "because I don't know how familiar she is with their plans." Watch the student describe how she was approached »

He then opened a binder to a page that, according to Gallo-Chasanoff, had about eight questions on it.

"The top one was planned specifically for a college student," she added. " It said 'college student' in brackets and then the question."

....

"After the event," she said, "I heard another man ... talking about the question he asked, and he said that the campaign had asked him to ask that question."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/13/clinton.planted/index.html

Am I the only one who finds that binder really creepy? This is taking on a whole other level of manipulation. This is what the Clinton campaign thinks about the role of informed consent in democracy? Not only are reporters punished for asking difficult questions, but ordinary citizens (college students, at that) are steered away from even lightly troublesome questions.

[dflprincess]

1. I wish the press had made as big a deal of the planted questions at Bush press conferences

And I say that as no fan of Hillary.

[MH1]

4. Agreed, on both counts.

But, you can bet that the repub opposition will make plenty of hay about this if Hillary is nominated.

I hope the candidate we eventually nominate is better than this.

[earthlover]

88. Bush doing worse does not excuse Hillary doing it.

Would someone who got caught robbing a bank for $10,000 use as a defense that other bank robbers have stole a lot more money? I don't think so!

Yes, Bush has been even more scripted, and the media has ignored this. However, if our candidate does the same thing, even in a smaller way, not only is this no defense: it also makes it even harder for us to make a case against the other side doing it. Because the other side could now say Hillary does it! The circle of blame continues.

Seems to me that there are some real dumbshits who have political jobs, such as the staffer referred to. Not the brightest light bulb in the deck. Yet he/she is getting paid a lot of money!

[The Wizard]

103. It's not Bush doing worse

Who could be worse than Bush, Goebbels?
The media has given him a free ride and helped put him in power. That any Democrat will be under a microscope while any Republican will be allowed free rein to lie without scrutiny is why we have to attack all Republicans and their media enablers at every turn. Ridicule them, abuse them, crush them like the vermin they are.

[MethuenProgressive]

92. Big whoop. They all do this kind of thing.

:shrug:

[PassingFair]

112. BullCrap.

I went to a LOT of Dean campaign stops in 04, asked a lot of questions,
and I never saw staffers with binder telling people what to ask.

Of course, Dean lost....

But I would MUCH rather vote for what I want and not get it
than vote for what I DON'T want and get that.

[MannyGoldstein]

119. Show Us One, Other Than Bush

Link or slink.

The Bushes learned from the Clintons, and vice-versa.

[Forkboy]

129. Love that standing up to something wrong.Real brave of you.

"They all do it". The standard Hillary fan response to anything wrong.

Enough of this shit.People need to vote for anyone in our field BUT Hillary.Her and her supporters make it clear that her administration would be bereft of any morals.

[Divine Discontent]

136. preach it, brother!

"they all do it"

what a load of CRAP.

Hillary is a politician's politician. She plays the dirtiest game to get in, the thing is, we're a connected society and stuff like this will get out FAST. She's not going to get in, I will do my best to help make that a fact! I met John, he looked me right in the eye AFTER I told him about my sibling who is ill, and when he did, I told him thank you for doing more with healthcare than Hillary agrees to do, and he smiled. He's a real person. I feel at times she's a pre-programmed robot. At this point, I'll take ANY of the DEM candidates other than her (my disgust with Obama's gay slams withstanding, because I do not like Hillary political-beast ways of ignoring issues, siding with the corporations, pre-planting questions, her pro war stance, etc).

I know I HAVE PERSONALLY changed a few votes that were going for Hillary. I hope we all can do that and more.

[Cha]

154. Big Whoop that you

can't prove it.

[MethuenProgressive]

168. Here's a CBS story (no doubt planted by Hillary Clinton Invisible Helicopter Robots)

See this DU thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3065977

[venable]

173. shows how much you know methuen'progressive'

which is not much.

no, the others DO NOT do it.

when you don't know something, best keep quiet.

[hlthe2b]

8. You said it.. CLinton's campaign is wrong & should be called on it.

But why are we playing into the RW's strategy to paint this as "well the Dems do it to." The Dems do NOT do what this morally corrupt cretin and his brown shirts have done the past 7 years, at tax payer expense. Excluding those "perceived" as non-supporters from taxpayer supported sessions on social security, arresting them, putting them on no-fly lists, making every public statement, event, press opportunity nothing more than a propaganda event. Using taxpayer money to front "journalists" to write positive stories or to produce fake media stories. Does Armstrong Williams (and others) come to mind? Destroying a honored newscaster of decades who sought to produce a truthful story unfavorable to Bush (Rather & NG record)....


Yes, Clinton's campaign (and she, herself if she condoned the practice) is wrong. It must stop, but this is night and day compared to the standard operational protocols of Bush and other RW candidates. Why are we helping the press and RW to attack us in the process?

[BenDavid]

163. Enough of the Hillary Clinton and the planted questions,

Goodness folks. What? It is now a two week story ever since the last debate that every morning and every afternoon and evening it is something NEGATIVE about Senator Clinton.
Now, I personally find the whole notion of planting reporters ridiculously cowardly on either side of the aisle but is this the most important issues facing us right now?
The hypocrisy of the main street media is remarkable. After all, if the media keeps castigating Hillary for planted questions, then you the media would really have to respond to your own complacency as far as loyalty oaths to attend Bush town hall meetings and that most famous of planted reporters: Jeff Gannon. Did you find that as egregious? Did you do a two week campaign?
By the way, speaking of planted reporters, do check out who was the first commenter over at PERRspectives. It looks like ol’ Johnny Guckert is trying to use the netroots to sell himself as a legitimate journalist."

I do thank you
Ben David

[Hieronymus]

166. It's absolutely right that Hillary was called on planting questions.

[Virginia Dare]

14. The hypocrisy is blinding..

every single public appearance the chimp has ever held has been carefully orchestrated. Having said that, I think we need to have little to no tolerance of this kind of thing from members of our party. Enough already.

[Supersedeas]

36. that's the GOP Media Establishment in a nutshell

[JDPriestly]

114. Actually, it isn't just hypocrisy. It is more serious.

By suggesting questions to members of the audience at campaign events, Hillary and Bush are able to manipulate the focus not only of their own campaign but also of the press and the voters. Thus, the voters are tricked into focusing on the issues the candidate wants the public to focus on. This transfers the control over the direction of the national discourse from the voters to the candidate.

[DCKit]

15. Planted questions? How about the planted audiences?

You can't get into an admin news conference without being screened.

[roguevalley]

25. both suck. i don't weight them either because they are the same

mentality.one isn't somehow worse than the other, for me. they both are equally full of shit.

[dajoki]

41. Like this one...

From Rogers, Ark



Low in Polls, Bush Makes More Time for Friendly Crowds
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
Published: October 16, 2007
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/16/washingt...

ROGERS, Ark., Oct. 15 — Out there in the rest of America, polls show that about twice as many people disapprove of President Bush as approve of him. But here in a cavernous convention center hall, Mr. Bush found nothing but admirers Monday when he answered questions during a town-hall-style meeting.

One man began by commending Mr. Bush “on your steadfastness and your faith.” Another concluded by saying, “Thank you for being my president for the last seven years,” with an emphasis on the word “my.” A third expressed dismay that Mr. Bush could not run for president again.

[jgraz]

32. So do I. The parallels between Bush and Hillary need to be clearly outlined

[KittyWampus]

66. Actually, the Media DID report on it. Several times.

[2008]

82. Sorry, Dems have standards

Repukes do not. If they did, the press would be all over Bush's bullshit because the repukes would be calling him on it.

[earthlover]

85. I agree...at the same time, it is not a defense to say Hillary is like Bush!

[rainy]

87. I wish the press would have made a bigger deal of the ear piece Bush was

wearing during a debate. Bush even said "let me finish" when his light was still green and no one had tried to stop him. This should have been played over and over again. That's a story! But as usual they get the passes and we get all the scorn.

[Ian_rd]

94. I swear to God that asshole was wired

It's the only plausible explanation for the mysterious "thing" under his clothes, and his incredibly long blank stares before he spoke. But the media won't touch it.

As far as the media treatment of the plants, this one of those perfect clean examples of bias. Bush does this crap all the time, but it only gets occasionally mentioned in passing in the press. Hillary gets caught ONCE, and it's a dogpile. To be fair, it was a dog pile when Gannon was exposed, but that was one instance in dozens, and especially sensational because he was (is?) a gay prostitute.

And as others have said: I am NO Hillary fan!

[ClassWarrior]

128. We need to make the point that Sen. Clinton is only operating under Bush**'s new rules.

She's obviously wrong to do so, but it's the Bush** Administration and its Rape-Publican minions who set this nasty precedent in contemporary politics.

NGU.

[Yuugal]

139. Um, no thanks

We need to make it clear this crap wont be tolerated, period.

[ClassWarrior]

140. When did I say any different?

NGU.

[AuntPatsy]

145. Exactly but then again its not the intent of some to call the present administration

on its tactics, more and more I see nothing but GOP rove style hits directed at our candidates by supposed Dem party members, I honestly thought all Dur's would not fall so easily into the manipulative hit pieces so artfully carried out by the media along with gop knot heads but wow, some do, I see far too much of that here.

I have a feeling it has to do with freepers whom have jumped the aisle so to speak meaning they have learned to distrust their once beloved leader and now are looking for another one and for the life of them, they cannot trust the newest gop candidates either so they seek to infiltrate the dem party in hopes of finding someone more to their liking and hence they have signed on to DU, but their ignorance is very hard to disguise.

We are a big tent surely and I would love to welcome all with open arms but I think that tent has now been opened up to the likes of hannity and coulter wannabes and not sure I can handle them on a daily basis.

[MH1]

2. Not so much creepy

It just speaks volumes about the candidate's (or her staff's) lack of confidence in answering freely-asked questions in an open forum.

There are a couple politicians I really support, and I can't imagine either one would do that.

[DeepModem Mom]

3. Here's a link to an earlier posting of the article, with discussion --

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3713387

[Adelante]

5. I don't find it all that unusual in politics

I've worked on several campaigns and planting questions was done. I don't especially like it, but it is done. I expect that once this particular story starts running down, we will have examples popping up of other candidates also planting questions. We'll see.

[beachmom]

18. I don't think Obama or Edwards do this. Just their style at YearlyKos

that leads me to believe they will answer any question. Although nothing was planted, Hillary's breakout session had Peter Daou selecting questioners instead of her doing it personally. Obama and Edwards selected the questioners themselves. They were not afraid of a bunch of lib blogger supporters asking some intelligent questions.

[Adelante]

54. Well, I don't know who does or doesn't

I'm just saying it's not unheard of in politics in my experience.

[John Q. Citizen]

60. So who did you work for who did it?

[ariesgem]

144. A questioner from the YearlyKos posted a diary today comparing his experiece

to this recent incident.


snip..........

In fact, it sounds a lot like the first question Hillary got asked at the Yearly Kos Convention that I attended. That question – “How will you reform No Child Left Behind?” – allowed Hillary to give a long-winded nine-minute response in a break-out session where only 30 minutes were allotted to take questions. I don’t know if that first questioner was a plant, but it certainly ate up time where Clinton could have been grilled about Iraq in a crowd skeptical about her presidential campaign.

My question at the session put Hillary on the defensive – where she got stuck defending the less pleasant parts of her husband’s Administration (Defense of Marriage Act, Telecommunications Act, NAFTA and Welfare Repeal), and quite a few media outlets picked up on it. But it’s almost as if I got called on by accident. Out of five lucky people who asked questions, I was the only one her Internet Director did not call out by name – as he instead addressed me as “the man in the red shirt.”

snip..........


After they got busted in Iowa, the Clinton camp asked Muriel to keep things quiet. When she told a college reporter about the planted question, Muriel asked as a courtesy that he notify the Clinton campaign – proving that she does not have an axe to grind with anyone involved. Suddenly she got a call from Hillary’s Iowa Director of Publicity. While they politely confirmed Muriel’s account of what happened, their last comment to her was “the campaign would like you to not talk about it anymore.”

Sounds like the contact I had with Hillary’s campaign after my question at Yearly Kos. On the final night, as the delegates were all drinking at 1:00 a.m. to celebrate a great Convention, I suddenly got approached by two Hillary staffers – a man and a woman – who started a “good-cop, bad-cop” confrontation with me. The woman thanked me profusely for “asking such a smart question,” while the guy said, “I’m not going to leave you alone until you become a Hillary supporter.”

Needless to say, he was not successful -- and after we talked for about five minutes, he yelled “you’re helping the terrorists” and they both walked away. Apparently, getting unscripted moments is just too much to handle for Hillary Clinton – as her campaign machine chugs along to win the nomination. Question-and-answer sessions that give the appearance of "dialogue" are treated like TV commercials, and people who break through their machine are "problems" that need to be dealt with. That is not the type of democracy that we deserve -- and are brought up to respect.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/14/10459/572

[John Q. Citizen]

150. thanks for posting this. Does it have it's own thread, because it deserves it.

[John Q. Citizen]

29. Yes, i know what you mean. It''s like laundered contributions, political murders,

paid off journalists, government sanctioned drug running, mafia ties, loss of constitutional rights and civil liberties, rampant cronyism, plundered treasuries, genocide, bought judges, political prosecutions, stolen elections, torture, and all the hall marks of our current system.

I don't especially like it, but it's done.

I expect once any of those stories start running out of gas, we will have examples popping up of other candidates also doing these same things. We'll see.

I really can't see why anybody gets too upset by it anymore.

We live in an empire run by various competing and co-operating oligarchs. It's pretty obvious everybody is involved in someway or another, or they wouldn't be considered viable to be considered for ritual election.

[barbtries]

84. great response.

mega touche

[LanternWaste]

110. I can not in good conscious...

I can not in good conscious see a planted question being equated to genocide and political persecutions. It seems to minimize the latter to such a degree as to be almost profane.

But if makes for dramatic copy, I s'pose.



Does anyone (*anyone*?) think that this is not SOP for *every* contemporary political campaign? A few dabs here and there of trendy, bumper-sticker cynicism, yet naive and innocent when confronted by the actual world?

I believe there's a quote floating around somewhere to the effect of, "If you like sausages or politics, don't watch how they're made..."

[John Q. Citizen]

149. Corruption always starts small. And if there is no cost or consequence, then

why stop there?

Not only were questions planted, but then her campaign lied about planting questions, numerous times.

I have no problem with sausage, except when it's advertized as pure pork, and then I find out there was also saw dust added, to cut costs and maximise profits at consumers expense.

At that point, it's time to haul the maker into court.

Same with politics.

[Bread and Circus]

44. Did Wes Clark do it? I'm really curious about that. I went to one

of his fundraisers and I noticed that certain people got to ask the majority of questions, and that was Albanians (who couldn't stop kissing his feet). After starting and running michiganforclark.com I have to say that was the moment I felt something wasn't quite right with his candidacy because this fundraiser with a Q and A seemed like a big circle jerk where the Albanians were given latitude to publicly kiss his feet.

[Adelante]

49. Well, the Albanians had good reason - they were alive

But I was not talking about Clark, who I never worked for, but do support. I worked for a very political labor union years before and kicking off public events with a question or two was fairly normal. The candidate wouldn't necessarily know of it, but the organizers would do it.

[keith the dem]

122. Amen, I swear these people never worked on a campaign before!

Planted questions as public events is probably as old as democracy itself. It's important that a candidate get his or her man points out there. A few planted questions are very common.

This is in sharp contrast to BUSH events where every question is orchestrated, or fake people at press conferences.

Anybody who thinks that a Clinton is the same as a Bush has not been paying attention the last 15 years!

[rufus dog]

6. Planting questions

I can't even recall the press making a big deal about Jeff Gannon! There is a double standard, but that doesn't justify what the Hillary campaign did.

[baldingrockwarlord]

7. BINGO!

Not excusing the Hilary camp on this one, but pointing out that when the gay prostitute turned fake journalist Gannon/Guckert was tossing softballs to Bush, noone really seemed to care.

[Ian_rd]

97. I gotta disagree with that

The media jumped on it. But I suspect it was party due to the "gay prostitute" aspect of it. But I agree in principle, this kind of thing is in plain sight for Bush at every public appearance, but it only gets passing reference. Hillary gets caught once and it's a big story.

And this whole "binder" thing proves to me that it's also a SOP for Hillary. I doubt that binder was created just for that appearance and then destroyed.

[jgraz]

33. Last I checked, Jeff Gannon wasn't running in the Democratic primary

On the other hand, there ARE several candidate to choose from who don't need to stage their questions in advance.

[Bread and Circus]

35. And neither is George Bush.

Just because Bush does it, does NOT make it ok.

Please people, get some integrity.

[jgraz]

38. Exactly. I can't believe the Hillarites are using * as a justification for her perfidy

Is there any excuse too low or too flimsy? I guess not.

[Bread and Circus]

43. Yeah honestly, this issue is really ticking me off. I don't doubt this

is "common practice" and I bet some of the people I've backed in the past do this. In any regard, now that we are aware of it, we of the people of the party of integrity should say this is just not acceptable.

I think if Hillary admits the wrongdoing, sincerely apologizes, then we can ALL move on. This shouldn't jeopardize her candidacy but if she wants to hide behind the "I didn't know" defense and if her supporters want to hide behind the "Bush is worse" defense, then god fucking help us if she is President - because then is it is SSDP (same shit different President).

I want a real change. I hate to be forced into a protest vote.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

105. Perfidity?

Betrayal? Treachery?

Oh please...

I'm not even a Hillary supporter and I don't have a problem with this. Hillary is my LEAST FAVORITE Democrat in the race and I don't have a problem with this. If Hillary's the nominee, I'll have to hold me nose in order to vote for her and I don't have a problem with this.

In a public forum, her people wanted to make certain that she was able to talk about key parts of her platform, so they staged questions on certain topics. A "planted" question about Global Warming? It's not like this hasn't been a topic of discussion lately. It's not even necessarily a "softball" question -- just a general query that, in fact, might have been asked by several members of the audience had Hillary been randomly fortunate enough to choose the right person.

It's time to let this non-story die a natural death and get on to issues of substance.

[Auntie Bush]

117. All is fair in love and war ... and politics is WAR! (unfortunately)

Anyone who doesn't believe their candidate does it too is really, really naive. Besides, how could anyone possibly KNOW whether they do it or not.
You just THINK they don't! Get real...take of the blinders and let's win this election and stop bad mouthing ALL our front runners. Let the Thugs do that. Dems are getting a bad name and they discussed that fact on TV just today. "The fighting Dems"

[Forkboy]

130. No, it's not all fair.

And buying into that thinking is part of the problem in America.

[CoffeeCat]

58. Exactly...

...since when are George Bush's deplorable actions a measuring stick
for how to run a campaign?

So, if George's planting of questions and manipulation is at a level 10, but Hillary
only does it at a 6--were supposed to think that what's she's doing is fine?

Has it come to this: "Oh thank God, her knifing, manipulations and fakery aren't as bad
as George Bush's!"?

Politicians should be at the beck and call of "We The People." They should meet in
living rooms, community centers and coffee shops full of Americans who can ask any
damn question they want.

You have to bend your standards quite a bit to remotely believe that this
type of behavior from a public official is acceptable.

I doubt this highly stylized bull will go over well with Iowans.

[msongs]

9. next thing ya know Hillary will plant donnie Mcclurkin live & on stage to promote his agenda nt

[DURHAM D]

10. A real "planted" question -

It would start with "Your opponent said blah, blah, blah" about you or about you policy. Please comment on his remark and explain how you differ. The questioner would likely read this from a 3 x 5 card.

A general question about policy that does not include a snark about an opponent is not a plant - it falls into the area of good event planning.

The other kind of "plant" is sent from the opposition. The guy that got Kerry snagged in the big flip-flop moment was a plant from the opposition and he followed him from event to event until Kerry acknowledged him, against the advice of his staff.

The primary jobs of the staffers is to work the crowd looking for the usual suspects (stalkers/opposition workers/ etc.) and figure out a way to neutralize them by not allowing them to ask their "planted" questions. That may include letting the candidate know about the stalker or just seeing to it that he is not down front. The staff's secondary job is to find those people who want to ask a question about policy and see to it that they are down front.

[maddiejoan]

11. Bingo

Couldn't have said it better.

[beachmom]

20. Interesting about the fact that the questioner of Kerry was a plant.

So another words, by giving the people the right to speak, even the opposition, Kerry made a "mistake". I have never heard this "other side of the story" before. I thank you for it.

[blm]

31. Baloney - Kerry didn't flip-flop. The media LIED about that and too many Dems repeat

the lie because it serves their purpose and their own 2008 campaigns.

Why would the media keep pushing the spin against Kerry?

Kerry Seeks to Reverse FCC's "Wrongheaded Vote"
Commission Decision May Violate Laws Protecting Small Businesses; Kerry to File Resolution of Disapproval
Monday, June 2, 2003

WASHINGTON - Senator John Kerry today announced plans to file a "Resolution of Disapproval" as a means to overturn today's decision by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to raise media ownership caps and loosen various media cross-ownership rules.

Kerry will soon introduce the resolution seeking to reverse this action under the Congressional Review Act and Small Business Regulatory Enforcement Fairness Act on the grounds that the decision may violate the laws intended to protect America's small businesses and allow them an opportunity to compete.

As Ranking Member of the Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship, Kerry expressed concern that the FCC's decision will hurt localism, reduce diversity, and will allow media monopolies to flourish. This raises significant concerns about the potential negative impacts the decision will have on small businesses and their ability to compete in today's media marketplace.

In a statement released earlier today regarding the FCC's decision, Kerry said:

"Nothing is more important in a democracy than public access to debates and information, which lift up our discourse and give Americans an opportunity to make honest informed choices. Today's wrongheaded vote by the Republican members of the FCC to loosen media ownership rules shows a dangerous indifference to the consolidation of power in the hands of a few large entities rather than promoting diversity and independence at the local level. The FCC should do more than rubber stamp the business plans of narrow economic interests.

"Today's vote is a complete dereliction of duty. The Commissioners are well aware that these rules greatly influence the competitive structure of the industry and protect the public's access to multiple sources of information and media. It is the Commission's responsibility to ensure that the rules serve our national goals of diversity, competition, and localism in media. With today's vote, they shirked that responsibility and have dismissed any serious discussion about the impact of media consolidation on our own democracy."

[DURHAM D]

56. Good grief blm - you missed the point by a mile - make it 10 miles.

[blm]

67. No, I didn't - I took the opportunity to correct an error in your description

of Kerry.

[karynnj]

50. There was no flip flop - it was just a poorly worded response

to a question he had already answered in detail. The Republicans were saying that Kerry's vote was to defund the war. He had explained well in other responses that he was opposed to how it was being funded and that he had voted for having it paid for and with oversight. The concern was to make people see the intent was not defunding. The problem was the media did not let Kerry's explanation get much air.

[DURHAM D]

57. See my above response - you also completely missed the point.

[karynnj]

64. I did get your point

I did want to counter that there was a flip flop - as there wasn't. I assume your point is that the job of the staffers is to identify potential problems - so the candidate could avoid them and to push supporters, so it will be a positive event.

I assume the point is that what HRC's staff did was both usual and good and that Kerry should have followed a more cautious path not taking a question from someone who was trouble. This ignores that Kerry often did the same thing to good effect. An example being when he asked an AIDS activist to let him finish his comments, then he would address the question and that he had a lot to say on that. He did and Kerry spoke of work that he did on this - he was one of the first people to address the issue. From many accounts of Kerry in Iowa, it was his willingness to speak to anyone - respectfully and openly that made him the winner. It is also who he is.

Is does carry risks - but so does planting questions.

[mtnsnake]

53. Spot on, Durham. No wonder Kerry got caught flip flopping all the time. Too careless. nt

[karynnj]

63. HRC and Edwards have been caught flip flopping far more often than Kerry even would have dreamed of

That was one - poorly phrased response to someone clearly hoping to push Kerry to make a mistake. He did make a mistake in saying it that way - because it was clipped from the perfectly legitimate explanation.

No one was needed to get HRC to flip flop in the last debate. Her comments on withdrawal from Iraq can make one dizzy.

Without that clip, Kerry would have been pretty easy to defend as he is very consistent, which is why Russert, Matthews et all never caught him with their "taped moments".

[mtnsnake]

73. At best, thats arguable. Regardless, the key is to not let yourself get hung with the label

In some cases, it's better to just admit you've had a change of mind. A little explaining goes a long way, while silence just perpetuates the claims.

[karynnj]

75. Doesn't that hold for your earlier comment?

That might be good advise for Hillary - who changed her mind in seconds. Kerry was speaking of having voted yes to one version of a bill and no to a very different version. He did explain it many many times.

[mtnsnake]

76. The problem, though,

if Kerry explained it many many times, as you say, he didn't dumb it down enough so the averge Joe could understand him. Too often you came away from one of his "explanations" scratching your head and going, "WTF"? It was almost as if he dug himself in deeper, the more he talked.

[earthlover]

90. So a plant is not a plant...it is good event planning?

"A general question about policy that does not include a snark about an opponent is not a plant - it falls into the area of good event planning".

Amazing how we can parse the meaning of words.

When a question is planted...it doesn't matter if it is snarky....planted is planted, period! Unless you belong to Hillary's Kool Aid Korps and you can use language to say Up is Down and Down is Up.

It would be a refreshing breath of fresh air to just admit a mistake, apologize and move on. Instead of muddying things up with bullshit.

Good Event Planning indeed. If it was so good, why did they get caught?

[izzybeans]

91. For corporate events, not events of people who are supposed to answer

to the people. Any planted question is anti-democratic to its core. This PR Orwellianism undermines democracy no matter who does it.

The true double standard is that people were appalled at bush for creating such an authoritarian atmosphere in a traditional democratic space, somehow Clinton gets a free pass on this.

Fuck that. We've lost our way big time, if that is the case.

[zulchzulu]

12. The real question is why Hillary Clinton obviously LIED about it

Asked about whether her campaign plants questions, Hillary Clinton either is utterly clueless on what her campaign is doing (not likely) or she got caught in a lie about the tactic:

“It was news to me,” said Mrs. Clinton, of New York, “and neither I nor my campaign approve of that, and it will certainly not be tolerated.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/12/us/politics/12clinton.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin

It's not really "creepy". It's nothing new from how a Clinton tends to lie and think it will all just go away. Haven't we had enough of this bullshit already?

[Bread and Circus]

37. She lied, the same way Bush lies. And if she didn't know, then she's inept...

she either lied or got duped. Which is worse, a liar or a bad manager?

I know as a business owner and a physician that if anything happens under me whether I know it or not, I'm fucking on the line.

That's why I keep my staff well trained and make sure they work ethically and legally. That's what Clinton has apparently failed to do.

[Major Hogwash]

126. Because she's a liar, that's why.

It's pretty obvious now that she doesn't have a clue as to how many Americans are sick of politicians like her, who have to put their finger up to check which way the wind is blowing, before they will attempt to give an answer to a simple question.

That shit might have worked for her in New York - it ain't going to work anywhere else.

[zulchzulu]

153. Bingo....

Just what we want...four more years of this shit...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. She Shouldn't Have Done It...

That being said the question was fairly innocuous... If Team Clinton was really playing dirty pool they would have had a plant ask her a question such as "how do you feel about being bashed by John Edwards and Barack Obama ?"

Ha...

I was at two political events; one to see Rosalyn Carter at my high school in 1976 and one as a mole to see Ronald Reagan in DeBary, Florida in 1979...

My friend , the brainiac, asked Rosalyn Carter an esoteric question about Rhodesia (it wasn't Zimbabwe then) which stumped her and my friend asked Ronald Reagan an esoteric question that stumped him... We got the f--k out of there right after he asked the question... Those were different times... I doubt you can do that stuff now...

[zulchzulu]

16. I've been to rallies like that...

Usually the "questions" aren't even questions...more like rambling claptrap like the Taser Boy where it's a rapid succession of diatribes that the person being asked the question shows their art for stopping the "question" during that microsecond of a pause. That's a talent.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. I Saw Rosalyn Carter At North Miami Beach Sr High In1976

Must have been March or so of that year...It was right before the Democratic primary... I had no idea I was seeing a former First Lady...People forget but one of Jimmy Carter's biggest feats was beating George Wallace in southern primaries...

[Bread and Circus]

39. how do you know they haven't done something similar? we only

know of one planted question. But what about the binder with the "menu" of questions and the carefully handpicked types of questioners they want asking the questions?

Honestly, do you find that a little bit troubling?

[MLFerrell]

19. If this is any indication of how an HRC administration will conduct itself...

Then it's abundantly clear that she will run her show in as secretive and un-American a manner as Bush.

[earthlover]

95. Maybe so...and her supporters likely would justify it by saying Bush did it too...

[paulk]

21. the binder shows a campaign that is organized to win

and all the hand wringing over this incident is not going to amount to anything, IMO.

[mzmolly]

23. Indeed. Democrats are criticized for not playing "smart" and for being disorganized.

Yet when we try to organize, it's considered shifty. I don't care for planting questions, but it is possible that questions are screened so we don't have duplicates as well?

[paulk]

28. it's fascinating how the MSM has a double standard

when it comes to Republican and Democratic campaigns. The 2004 Bush campaigns were damn near like Nuremberg rallies, with hand picked audiences and I'm sure completely planted questions. Did we hear a peep about it on the 6 o'clock lies? Not to mention the hired reporters and Jeff Gannon...

One thing the Clinton campaign recognizes is that the mainstream media is NOT on their side (or ours). Tightly controlling the message is vital when dealing with a hostile press.

Clinton is in this to win, and I don't have a problem with that.

[mzmolly]

30. Very well said.

And, I'm not a Clinton supporter per se.

:hi:

[Bread and Circus]

42. Basically, you are saying when Clinton does what Bush does you

don't have a problem with it. In essence, the ends justify the means.

Well, I've got a book for you to read. It's called animal farm. Four legs good, two legs bad...

[paulk]

46. Basically, I could give a flying fuck

about what you think I'm saying.

It's beyond a huge stretch to compare what the Clinton campaign has done to what the Bush campaign and Presidency has done concerning manipulation of the press. It's not even close, and that you think it is makes your opinion worthless, afaic.

[Bread and Circus]

48. Well, it's a message board so you might want to get used to hearing

opinions that you don't like.

You getting so pissed off sounds like I a touched a nerve and hit a little close to home.

I think you protest too much.

[earthlover]

96. All the candidates want to win....the question is what they are willing to do....

I'm sorry...but getting caught planting questions is not the mark of a campaign that has it all together! Not a good way to win.

Ruthless, perhaps. Effective, not so much.

[mzmolly]

22. What's interesting to me is that the media has a different expectation for Clinton v Bush.

I don't "like" this stuff from any campaign, but it's hardly unusual.

[Marlie]

24. What really gets me

Sure, it's a thing Bush does, it shouldn't be done by Hillary too, that's so disappointing. That
being said, the Bernard Kerik mess and his affiliation with the Republican front runner, old Rudy, is being almost ignored by the MSM. The importance of the two issues is like comparing apples to
oranges. What Clinton did was minor compared to Rudy, yet that's all people are talking about.
A little infraction gets one hundred times more coverage than a huge infraction. Oh well, guess
that old liberal media is at it again.

[Bitwit1234]

26. I find more creepier that a person who si suppose to be intelligent

a Democrat and believes this shit the republicans spew.

First...if this was such a "public need to know"...why did she wait so long to let the public know. Oh...is it because she wanted to get on the pay per talk show that was forming.

Second....I will be that if you had access to any of the other campaigns they would find that at some time or other they gave questions out to the people in the audience to ask.

If you remember, at Matthews, college events they gave questions to ask.

And for seven years bush not only picked his audience he picked the questions..why in the S.O.B. hell is this a big story when it has been done all this time before.

OH HELL I KNOW IT IS A BASH HILLARY ARTICLE. THE REPUBLICANS AND THE OB AMA GROUPIES ARE MESSING THEIR SHORTS TO POST IT HERE. DAMN I THINK I HAVE COUNTED AT LEAST FIVE.

If Hillary supporters posted every single solitary mis step or underhanded thing Ob ama has done you GROUPIES would again mess your selves. You think it is ok to bash and flame Hillary but you don't want any one to tell a truth about Ob ama. I think the Hillary supporters wouldn't do it tho, they have more class and character than ABMs groupies.

[Schema Thing]

27. These people are complaining because they are weak

If you don't have enough fucking spine to simply ask the question you'd like to ask even if a "clinton staffer" ask you to ask something else, don't blame your lack of spine on Hillary Clinton.

I strongly suspect Hillary Clinton, as a young college student, would have stood up and asked whatever the hell it is she wanted to ask, ___x___ staffer's suggestions be damned.

[earthlover]

99. yeah...but would she be called on?

[Schema Thing]

106. Why wouldn't she be?

Hillary is not a mind reader, so far as I know.

[SIMPLYB1980]

109. Best post in this thread.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Bread and Circus]

34. This is the same shit we all bitch about when Rove, Bush, and Co. do it...

but when a DEMOCRAT does it, it suddenly becomes ok for a lot of people.

Which makes me want to poke my eyes out with a fork because the hypocrisy is so rank.

[mod mom]

40. Huff Po reported an incident she she got caught doing this in 1999:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2271202&mesg_id=2271202

[Scriptor Ignotus]

45. but "We won't get fooled again!!"

new boss, same as the old boss (well, she's not nearly as bad, but still...)

[hootinholler]

47. What with the writers strike and all...

I guess they are working from old scripts.

-Hoot

[mtnsnake]

51. Hillary did nothing wrong in this. That's just the way it is so stop all your whining about it

Yet all of you are ready to give the pooooor little college student a gold medal for agreeing to her part in this unethical act that Hillary had nothing to do with. The ones responsible are the student and the staffer, not the Goddess of Peace. Put the blame where it belongs, thank you. :smoke:

[zulchzulu]

52. Heck, she only lied about not knowing it was going on...

I guess we give her another free pass...'cause she's a girl?

:shrug:

[John Q. Citizen]

61. Oh come on. Everybody knows the Clintons don't lie. They are above all that.

[earthlover]

100. Hillary is not a Goddess. Do I have to point that out? Incredible.

Sorry thing when a candidate is deified on the one hand and made excuses for because Bush did the same thing on the same thread!

Same Kool Aid. Different flavor.

[Blashyrkh]

161. Goddess of Peace?

Please excuse me while I vomit uncontrollably.

[mmonk]

55. Sounds bush league.

[arikara]

59. There's always been outrage

when we all know that the chimp plays to picked audiences and answers scripted questions. Then so many are willing to turn around and give Hillary a pass on doing the same thing. Its dishonest and disgusting. And yes... I know she hasn't been caught out doing screened audiences but give it time.

[guruoo]

62. Another good soldier...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=69368&mesg_id=69473

[rucky]

65. I want a President who can think on their feet. n/t

[earth mom]

68. What ticked me off is that the "college student" winked at a friend after she asked the question.

They must think we're all as dumb as a bunch of rocks. Disgusting. :puke:

[IndianaGreen]

74. She winked at the Clinton staffer as she handed him/her the mic

As David Geffen said, is not that the Clintons lie, is that they lie with such ease.

[earth mom]

80. Yup they're "Politicians" through and through. nt

[earthlover]

101. Speaking of ease...I am amazed at the ease with which some defend this

Just what do we stand for anyhow?

[jgraz]

111. What do we stand for? We stand for *winning*!!

After all, what else is there? Isn't Hillary's campaign slogan "I'm in it to win"??? Not "I'm in it to change America" or "I'm in it to help the little guy", but "I'm in it to win".

If you're a Hillary supporter, you're IN IT TO WIN, and fuck anything that gets in your way.

[Carrieyazel]

69. Clinton's campaign is foolish and wrong, if they thought they could get away with this.

"Don't make her look bad." "Ask this specific question." Shrub does these kinds of things since day one, and for Hillary to do something that we all know is detestable shows what an AWFUL CANDIDATE SHE IS.

[mckeown1128]

70. This is pretty devastating to her campaign

This stinks of rovian politics. She seems to run a tight campaign...how the hell would she allow something so stupid to happen.

[Sensitivity]

71. It worked for Bush even though many knew how it was done -- why shouldn't it work form Hillary

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

72. Has no one but me ever been to a political event? In Iowa, they haven't figured out the binder guys?

Why didn't the student just call the staffer on it right then as he was asking?

Perhaps, because that would mean less fame, fortune and so forth?

:shrug: MKJ

Oh, and on edit, why can't Sen Clinton just take the questions?

[lonestarnot]

77. This planted question thing is just a bunch of bullshit. I don't really care whether she did or did

not. No big deal to me. hmmmmf.

[daa]

115. I don't suppose any of these "outraged" remember

pappy Bush planting a fucking cow beside the road in what, New Hampshire.

[lonestarnot]

155. Or anything else that fucker has planted, mostly lies that have rooted like Helen Black!

Still yank'n 'em! :toast:

[CyberPieHole]

78. WOW! I am CREEPED OUT!!!

Next thing you know, candidates will start spewing out pre-rehearsed answers.:eyes:

[Colobo]

79. What? Mrs. Toughness herself needs plants on campaign events?

[rodeodance]

81. media created 'news'

[barbtries]

83. they all went to the karl rove school of campaigning

it is very disturbing. i wasn't going to vote for her anyway but i hope this changes some people's minds about her. to hell with free speech "zones" and vetted audiences! this is bullshit.

[EV_Ares]

86. Is a creepy thing as the Clinton campaign seems to be adopting more

and more of the Bush methods of running a campaign. Would not be a media event if not created in the first place by the Clinton campaign. Is certainly worthy of a media event as this is not what we want. Believe most people would prefer open campaign events not rehearsed campaign events as we complained on this board about Bush.

[Stuckinthebush]

89. It's disturbing that Clinton supporters are ok with this

We lambaste Bush for this and rightly so.

There is no excuse for this type of manipulation in the post-Bush era.

Please don't make excuses for it or talk about the double-standard press. The fact is that her campaign did this and this is more than likely not the first time. It was wrong.

[earthlover]

93. Same Kool Aid....Different Flavor

Some supporters will follow a campaign anywhere.

L.E.M.M.I.N.G.S.

[Roland99]

98. In the words of Al Delvecchio... "Ayup yup yup yup yup....."

[Stuckinthebush]

107. It's astounding

I'm undecided so have no horse in this race yet. I can't imagine being so rah-rah about any one candidate that I'd be willing to ignore ethical issues in order to get him/her elected.

Progressives aren't supposed to be like that, right?

[SIMPLYB1980]

113. You can keep your damn cool aid for yourself.

You seem to have a specail flavor for yourself. Most of us realize that all politicans do this, but Unlike Shrub Clinton will also answer questions from people who don't agree with her.

[happygoluckytoyou]

102. IN A RELATED STORY.....

BUSH CAUGHT RED-HANDED AT YALE PRODUCING A BOOK REPORT NOT ON THE HUNGRY CATERPILLAR, AS HE CLAIMED, BUT RATHER ON THE CLIFF'S NOTES OF THE HUNGRY CATERPILLAR.

CONDI RICE CAUGHT WEARING A PUSH-UP BRA

BUSH CAUGHT WITH A SOCK IN HIS FLIGHT SUIT

DICK CHENEY CAUGHT WITH HIS HEAD UP HIS UNDISCLOSED LOCATION

........so let me understand......
........just to be certain........
........and to use the proper wording.....
........and get this story straight.......

WHERE THE GOP HAS LAUNCHED US INTO A TRILLION DOLLAR WAR, ALLOWED THOUSANDS OF SOLDIERS TO DIE, PUT TONS OF SHIT IN THE AIR, LEFT KATRINA VICTIMS TO DIE, BANKRUPTED THE COUNTRY, BACKED BLACK-OPS GROUPS TO KILL AT WILL, DISTROYED THE CREDABILITY OF THE USA....

AND THE WORST THING THEY COULD HIT BACK WITH IS...... HILLARY HAD SOMEONE ASK HER A QUESTION

w00t!!!!!!! These bastards are BAD... not just average BAD.... Michael Jackson BAD....
EVIL Genius BAD... boy they really kicked SOME ASS with that revelation....

WHAT NEXT.... Edwards Gets Another Haircut.... Obama rhymes with Osama....

[Capn Sunshine]

165. WHAT!!?!

a push up bra, you say?

[DeeDeeNY]

104. We'll know she's in trouble when she calls on "Bianca"!! nt

[onehandle]

108. All campaigns do this.

They just don't get caught.

She should be called on it, but it is being blown out of proportion by the corporate media and the left who hate Hillary are helping.

Bush, who's Presidency has been a series of staged plays, has been caught from even before he was selected by SCOTUS.

Everyone knows it, but the pussy media won't call him on it in any significant way.

[MannyGoldstein]

120. Show Us Just One, Other Than Bush

Link or slink.

[onehandle]

121. No.

Question planting is as old as politics itself and is rarely caught. It's a cliché, it's so ingrained in the process.

Find it yourself.


I will amend one thing. I should have said most campaigns do this, not all.

[MannyGoldstein]

125. I Know Of None Besides Bush

Should be easy for you to find - but I can't find any.

[Cameron27]

131. Joe Klein said he found and confronted a woman

who was asked to plant a question by the Kerry campaign in 04. He went on to say that it's commonly done in politics, but that bush was in another category altogether.

[onehandle]

142. How's this?...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3065977&mesg_id=3065977

[Forkboy]

132. Nice backpeddle.

And I love it when people throw shit out there and tell people to "Find it yourself." :eyes:

[onehandle]

143. How's this?...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3065977&mesg_id=3065977

[Forkboy]

146. Better, but not proof that any other Dem is doing it or not.

And saying it's ok because others do it too is an incredibly weak defense.For me, this isn't about Hillary at all.It's simply about what's right if we want a healthy democracy.This is not good for us at all.That goes for all of us, whether we support Hillary or not.This kind of thing is larger than one candidate.It symbolic of all that's wrong with politics and politicians these days.Everything is packaged and marketed for mass approval.Doing what's right has become an afterthought, and it's killing us. :shrug:

[onehandle]

147. For the record, I've never said it was ok for us to do it too.

And I never said that any other Dem is doing it.

But, I will now.

It ain't just Hillary.

And if you think it is, you're fooling yourself.

[L0oniX]

116. This is what happens when she doesn't plant questioneers

[CyberPieHole]

138. That image you posted is from uglydemocrats.com...

You find that site amusing? Why don't you print out the other images they have for our candidates? Shame on you.:nuke:

[L0oniX]

152. Who cares where the picture came from and the post is about Hillary not the others.

This is what ignore is for.

[CyberPieHole]

160. I care about where the image came from. Freepers post shit like that...

but then, you probably feel right at home on RW sites don't you?:hi:

[L0oniX]

170. your petty insults will fit in real nice here ...grow up!

:sarcasm:

[CyberPieHole]

172. Puerile.

Thanks but try again.

[Redneck Socialist]

118. Good Heavens! A campaign that actually manages a campaign event...

How horrifying.

Heaven forbid a candidate actually run anything resembling an orgainized campaign. That would be terrible.

[Arugula Latte]

123. It's the Bush-Clinton playbook.

Typical.

Just another reason to run Hillary's nomination off the rails NOW.

[Broke Dad]

151. Agreed!

Enough of Bush lite!

[Major Hogwash]

124. The binder proves that she will continue to do this sort of planting of questions.

It also proves that the campaign was doing it with the full approval of Hillary.

[Ricki]

127. It's like a silent killer of our democracy

The problem is deeper than a lie ... the problem is that the world is just one big PR event to them, a chance for manipulation. There is no authenticity or respect for the traditions of democracy like engaging the voter.

[frylock]

133. the kool-aid sure is thick and syrupy on this thread..

i guess it's all good so long as there's a (D) on the candidate's nametag.

[progressoid]

134. Yawn...

Is this really worth all of the gnashing of teeth?

Hillary ain't on my list, but this is just politics. Dumb politics, but politics none-the-less.

In the pantheon of American politics, this is a non-event.

[Flashman7]

137. well

yet like so much of politics, it boils down to PR and sound bites. especially in a campaign.

many Americans want to feel like their President - whoever it is, right or left - isn't pulling a fast one over them for no good reason. ideology has nothing to do with it. trust, however, is essential.

when citizens feel like they're being manipulated - as opposed to being manipulated without their knowlege - it doesn't make anyone feel comfortable. plenty of other candidates to choose from...

[Flashman7]

135. HIlary

Hilary's a stooge. Always has been.

I hope this thing kicks her in the *ss.

[DrFunkenstein]

141. SUMMARY OF PRO-CLINTON RESPONSES:

Keep in mind that planted questions in Hillary Clinton campaigns has been documented – rather than the number of times it has actually happened – both in April 2007 and during her 2000 Senate race. Or that she had her blog master handpick who got to ask questions at YearlyKos to minimize potential embarrassments.

Clinton insists that she had no idea that this was going on and that it was not “standard” practice, despite the presence of a binder with questions specifically designed for CERTAIN TYPES of AUDIENCE MEMBERS for maximum appeal.

Forget that she had a slightly critical GQ story killed by threatening to pull Bill Clinton’s agreement to do a cover story, or that she refuses to allow the media the minimal treatment of getting to ride on the same bus even for fluff questions.

I could go on about, say, her refusal to open up the records from the Clinton years that she constantly touts, but you get the picture of how she feels about allowing voters to make informed choices about her candidacy. And how she feels about the role of journalists in a vigorous democracy.

Here are the responses to the Clinton campaign planting questions while steering audiences away from slightly awkward questions:


1. The Bush administration has already engaged in this sort of campaigning, and therefore it is acceptable.

This is one of the most horrid aspects of the Bush years: there are so many awful things that can no longer said to be “unprecedented.” I often here the fact that some past administration engaged in a practice as an argument to lessen its wrongness.

A parallel type of argument is used by conservatives. Namely, the terrorists don’t follow the rules of engagement, so we it is only fair that we also throw out the “quaint” rules of yesteryear.

2. Expressing outrage is just falling into a right wing strategy to say “the Dems do it too” in order to justify far worse behavior, such as Armstrong Williams, Jeff Gannon and hand-picked audiences.

Of course, we lose our moral authority when we permit such abuses to go unnoticed for our own political gain.

The implicit logic of this argument is that we somehow lose our ability to attack conservative abuses by condemning our own.

3. It is simply politics-as-usual – rather than specific to Bush campaigning – and therefore acceptable.

Do I really need to point out how this hurts us in the long run? Or the short run?

4. I’m not really sure, but I think that one response actually likened the planting of questions to assassinations and genocide…to suggest that people should not “get too upset by it anymore.”

5. Only with such tactics can a candidate be “considered viable” or “playing smart.”

That’s setting the bar pretty low. And tipping the bar into slippery slope in the process.

6. The media has a double standard towards Democrats.

This is certainly true. See #1.

7. This is merely a “Hillary bash” or the product of “jealousy.”

Not exactly bothering with refuting the argument, this is standard misdirection (especially around here).

8. Blame the college kid for not having “enough fucking spine” to defy the pressure from the campaign aide. If the student had been Hillary Clinton, she would presumably have done so (given her frequent displays of courage, I suppose).

Wow.

[SIMPLYB1980]

148. SUMMARY OF ANTI-CLINTON RESPONSES:

I HATE CLINTON!, I HATE CLINTON!, I HATE CLINTON!, I HATE CLINTON!, I HATE CLINTON!, I HATE CLINTON!, I HATE CLINTON!, I HATE CLINTON!, I HATE CLINTON!, I HATE CLINTON!, I HATE CLINTON!, I HATE CLINTON!, I HATE CLINTON!, I HATE CLINTON!, I HATE CLINTON!, I HATE CLINTON!, I HATE CLINTON!, I HATE CLINTON!, I HATE CLINTON!.

Self destructive Democrats blow my mind, why do the rights work for them?

Clinton is far from the Neo-Con one would assume she is by reading the posts in GD lately.

DU is becoming a cesspool of self hatred. Why hate the repubicans and confront them when it is easier to just bash your own side.

Some of you Democrats need to get a grip, and to the trolls F*** you you fascist sons of bitches.

[earthlover]

157. "you Democrat s"..? HUH?!

I suppose that you are clearly NOT saying "us Democrats"...

[SIMPLYB1980]

169. I don't consider self loathing democrats real Democrats.

Hence the "you".

[DrFunkenstein]

162. Didn't The Bushies Say The Same Exact Thing in 2004?

Was it really so long ago that conservatives were saying that we had no positions except hatred of Bush?

Alot of people around here remember from my days of promoting Kerry in 2004, and I have never taken part in any "cesspool of hatred."

Everything that I have discussed is a legitimate concern about candidates following in the wake of one of the most secretive administrations in history with unbelievable disdain for the role of a free media in achieving the informed consent of American citizens.

The Jeff Gannon circus didn't bother me nearly as much as the entirely scripted press conference with REAL media in the days running up to the invasion. I have disdain for the media SUCH AS IT IS, not for the institution itself - which I cherish dearly. I think that the media too often functions as lapdogs to power, but that doesn't mean that we should want them to suck the fumes of Democrats, too.

Remember that we have TRUTH, COMPASSION and JUSTICE on our side. We don't need to rig the game in our favor. We need to keep the game from being rigged.

Clinton's behavior time and time again has been very disappointing - and not just for trivial matters, but in matters when tens of thousands of lives are at stake. I have every right to express my disappointment until a candidate is picked. And I wouldn't order that tiara just yet.

I would appreciate it though, if Clinton supporters would at least acknowledge their discomfort with some of her more unfortunate decisions (many of which I already laid out in this thread). Especially when they decry the very same decisions when they are made by other politicians. There's a word for that, but it escapes me just now.

[McCamy Taylor]

164. Average American cares nada about this compared to Iraq. CNN blowing hot air

and so are we.

America will elect a president who is a hand puppet if America can be 100% certain that the hand puppet will get them the hell out of Iraq and get them Universal Health Care.

I do not understand why Dems are infighting so much. Just dish up any old Democrat, lay down a platform of 1. End the War ASAP, 2, Universal Health Care, 3. Balance the Budget 4. Stop Global Warming 5, Save Social Security 6. Fix the Economy and we are In Like Flint. Nothing hard about that. Are the people at DU really the ones making this so tough, or are there a bunch of Freeper moles starting all these fires?

[BootinUp]

159. Wow.

Such a shocking story.

Did the "plants" get paid to mislead people? No

Did the campaign force them to either ask the "right" question? No

Did the campaign suggest questions? Yes


Shocking I tell ya. :rofl:

[ClarkUSA]

156. When Bush did it on the campaign trail, it was wrong. When Clinton does it now, it's also wrong.

To say anything else is hypocritical.

[earthlover]

158. It's been a bad week for Hillary....

When did it start? When she set a record for self-induced flip-flopping in the debate?

And we have tip-gate. She tipped. Or she didn't tip. Or maybe both!

And plant-gate. She planted. Or not. Or maybe both.

Suffice it to say that it is not a good thing that a candidate's supporters have to defend her by saying she is only doing what Bush has done!

All this sorta makes us nostalgic for the good old days when Hillary was INEVITABLE....what happened to that fantasy? Sure disappeared soon enough.

And we have her leads diminishing. Imagine that.

Not quite a perfect storm. But I bet Hillary's team would like to do this last week over....

[gorekerrydreamticket]

167. The student was probably a ringer from another campaign, she needs to have a lie-detector test and

possibly tasered until she fesses up...:sarcasm:

[gasperc]

171. yep, creepy you used to right a question on a card

and then the campaign would decide if it would "pick" your question or not. Clearly managed, and I think many campaigns do this so you don't get a whack job type question. But pull out a folder and tell the person what to ask, yeah over managed and creepy.
triangulation=strangulation