The only 2 points that matter about immigration. Period.

[themaguffin]

1) Every wingnut who raises this must respond to Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, ports that are no safer than before 9/11.... Chemical and nuke-u-ler plants that are no safer than 9/11... Incompetent foreign policies that have stretched the military and enabled our enemies. I war based on lies that have enabled our enemies for a host of reasons. War profiteering… billions “missing” Americans crushed by stagnant wages and skyrocketing healthcare and energy costs

2) The only and I mean only way to curtail illegal immigration is to cut off the source, and that source is not the border (though yes I’m sure that could and should be more secure), but it is available employment from greedy exploitive employers who are breaking the law, getting away with it and create the reason for more to come (despite the awful treatment, it’s still sadly seen as an improvement).

If we are serious about this issue, then that is the first priority. Any idiot who says “we must close the border first” is full of shit. It will never ever happen. Meanwhile greedy companies love to hear this as long as it leaves them alone. …If you don’t want ants, don’t leave crumbs, or something like that….

Now actually getting tough with big business is the last thing that Republicans want to do, but it also happens to be the real beginning of the process to curtail illegal immigration. Nothing – no walls will ever end it as there will always be opportunities better than the Third World countries to our south, but that is what must be done. So if it must be discussed, then force their hand and call them on their bullshit. Otherwise, end the distraction and make them respond to the messes that they made.

[phiddle]

1. We don't have an illegal immigration problem,

we have an illegal EMPLOYER problem.

[underpants]

2. The problem is in the issues title

Words make all the difference.

Have an illegal immigration problem? Make them legal OR track them better.

A huge part of this "problem" is that they need an upgrade in the tracking process-I would better going "electric" would help a lot.

Two things you also always have to remember about this issue
IF they are legalized
1. we all make more money
2. they can organize

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

3. and 3., they will vote Democratic... (the real issue with some)

[Cleita]

4. Unfortunately, one of those employers is our own government

who hires Mexican labor legally to work on our public lands for less than they would have to pay an American worker. Hope you can access this link because it's archived.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE5D91630F937A25751C0A9679C8B63&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/Subjects/I/Immigration%20and%20Refugees

Remember during the depression when the Civilian Conservation Corp did those jobs, putting jobless Americans to work again?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Conservation_Corps

[neoteric lefty]

5. I think you need to take one more step back

when you a referencing the 'source'. The source is a weak Mexican economy that are driving workers north for higher wages. The GNI (ppp) for Mexico is about 1/4 that of the United States http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DATASTATISTICS/Resources/GNIPC.pdf">Worldbank. Also, the distribution of wealth has more inequality than the US (See Gini or Theil indicies). Now I understand there are more factors that drive workers north (job availability, societal benefits, families, etc.) but I feel as long as there is a large disparagy between our relative economies, then people will try to come here.

Yes, enforcement of the border and of employers will help lower the number, but to me, its like trying to regulate the drug trade by criminalizing it (and we've seen how well that works). Just some thoughts.

[underpants]

6. Corn

about 4 million former "Campesinos" are now in the US working because they can't produce corn as cheap as our double goverment subsidized (WIC and excisetax/tarriff protection) agri-business can.


http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0425-30.htm

[themaguffin]

8. I agree and that is another reality that the GOP won't acknowledge

[lyonn]

7. Okla. has enacted a law about a month ago that makes it punishable

to house, harbor, transport, etc. illegal immigrants. Latest story concerning this law is that many pig farms and slaughter houses in the Northern part of the State had to shut down. We have a few rental houses that we suspect the renters could be illegals. They are good renters and nice people but if they have no proof they must leave. It is amazing how this law has changed the latin landscape in OKC. The illegals will simply move to another State I guess. The other side of this story is that jobs to legals will open up again with livable wages.

So, in one short month this law has noticeably changed the economic outlook. We had no problem renting to legal locals years ago. I was one of those that thought a protected border was the answer, maybe not. This will require all those that want to enter our country to do it legally. That is going too far of course, ha, but it should help enforce our laws.

[enid602]

9. shame, shame

I think California already tried that with Oklahomans during the '30's. Doesn't make it right.

[lyonn]

10. Is there a corrolation between Okies invading Calif. and illegals?