Biden is officially my second choice

[Clintonista2]

I am loving this guy more and more everytime I see him open his mouth.

[Quixote1818]

1. Me too and he would do very well in a national election. A lot of moderates love him. nt

[Clintonista2]

2. Also notice how he's the only candidate who has directly gone after the repig candidates?

I love it.

[Quixote1818]

3. And with real style! nt

[IndianaGreen]

5. "A noun, a verb, and 9/11"

Proud Bidenite here!

[youthere]

17. Me too!

[David Zephyr]

23. You may have me joining with you.

Joe Biden's refreshing no B.S. approach, coupled with his experience and his K.O. in the last debate has me close to finally making up my wishy-washy mind.

Can he raise the money? Can he show well in Iowa? You being a "proud Bidenite" carries weight with me, IG.

[Froward69]

69. Welcome aboard!!!

we Bidenites are of the stripe "the more the merrier."

[iverglas]

79. well, that answered my question before I asked it!

I'm still interested in the details, though --

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3679756&mesg_id=3680131

Very sincerely interested.

[bluestateguy]

4. "Bankruptcy Bill" Al Biden

I put him at number 7 just ahead of the Crazy Old Man Gravel.

[Captain Hilts]

9. I HATED him for that, too. But he's lurched to #1 for me with Clark out, Richardson ineffectual...

and so forth.

He's given some great speeches on poverty. I do want someone to ask him about what he thinks the Bankruptcy Bill has done and what he would do to fix it.

[ginchinchili]

12. Is voting "yeah" on the bankruptcy bill, like many other Democrats, the worst you can come up with?

Really, after 35 years in the Senate you have problems with a bankruptcy bill so that put him on par with "Crazy Old Man Gravel" for you? You must really be worried for your candidate.

I like John Edwards, but compare his record to Biden's. Who's gotten more done? Do you really believe that Edwards has gotten more done than Biden? By the way, what has John Edwards done for this country? Personally, I have a hard time taking a lawyer turned politician merely at his word unless he has the record to back it up.

[w4rma]

20. Biden has done a lot ... for the credit card companies and big banks. (nt)

[Think82]

25. link:

http://biden.senate.gov/newsroom/details.cfm?id=234426&...

[ginchinchili]

43. Right, that's why they're bankrolling his campaign with a flood of cash

You're just worried because he makes your candidate look like a neophyte. Next to Biden he is.

[Froward69]

70. John "hedge Fund" Edwards is better somehow?

[w4rma]

90. Edwards is better by far, especially on economics. (nt)

[IronLionZion]

66. I love it! This gives me a lot of hope for Biden. (Bidenites, this is a good thing)

This means he's now important enough for the daggers to come out from other candidates' supporters...and the best you can do is this one bill.

I love it! BTW, I have yet to see anything negative about any DEMOCRATIC candidate come from any Biden supporter...ever. Though we poke fun of Giuliani every chance we get. ;) You can tell a lot about a candidate by the character of his or her supporters.

Biden has a statement on his site explaining his position on the bill. Rather than cherry-picking my favorite lines out of context, I'll invite you to read it for yourself.

http://biden.senate.gov/newsroom/details.cfm?id=229883

[karynnj]

72. John Edwards voted for the 2001 bakruptcy bill that was similar

to the 2005 bill. So, if you rule out Biden, who had the excuse that he represents Delaware, rule out John Edwards. (Hillary voted yes in 2001, and voted to filibuster 2005.)

[bluestateguy]

81. Folks, Al Biden did a little more than just quietly vote for the bill

He helped to draft it, co-sponsored it and rounded up support for it in the Senate. That is a little worse than just casting a mistaken vote for a bill.

[karynnj]

86. Al Biden?

[iverglas]

89. do you have a source for old Al's misdeeds?

The one I'm seeing:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-256

identifies the sponsor as 

Sen. Charles Grassley [R-IA]

and the cosponsors as: 

Sen. Thomas Carper [D-DE]
Sen. Michael Crapo [R-ID]
Sen. Jim DeMint [R-SC]
Sen. Michael Enzi [R-WY]
Sen. Charles Hagel [R-NE]
Sen. Orrin Hatch [R-UT]
Sen. Ben Nelson [D-NE]
Sen. Jefferson Sessions [R-AL]
Sen. Richard Shelby [R-AL]
Sen. John Sununu [R-NH]
Sen. John Thune [R-SD]
Sen. David Vitter [R-LA]

Not seeing Biden's name there, but I may be doing something
wrong.

Or you may be getting your talking points from unsavoury
places.

 

[Clintonista2]

92. Who the hell is "Al Biden"?

[surfermaw]

83. He Hoe, back up there Edwards was after the C.C companies

[msongs]

6. wonder why all my credit card pitching mail comes from Delaware? too bad, I'd

like to support mr. B but there is a disconnect in there somewhere.

Msongs

[jillan]

7. Are you saying that it is Biden's fault that there are credit card companies in DE?

[msongs]

8. home of credit cards, credit card campaign contributions, bankruptcy bill et al nt

[jillan]

10. Biden has received the LEAST amount of $ from the banks of all the dem candidates.**

Look at this:

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?Ind=F03

**except Dennis

[ginchinchili]

15. LOL, right, the credit card companies are burying Biden alive in cash.

Give it a break. He must have you worried for your candidate's sake.

[youthere]

19. First of all Biden hardly has the credit card companies in his back pocket.

if he did, trust me, there'd be a whole lot more money in his campaign coffers.
Secondly, I understand everyone's anger about the bankruptcy bill, but it seems that Biden has become a lightening rod for the passage of that..as if he were solely responsible for it passing and that is simply not true.
That bill passed with 74 Yes votes in a Republican controlled congress. Even if Biden and the other 17 Democratic Senators had voted no, it was going to pass. That left Biden with one of two options...a "principled" No vote that would have alienated his constituency and made him appear partisan, or a "Yes" vote that appeased his constituency and gave him an opportunity for some leverage.
Biden fought to get protection for child-support into that bill. I know it doesn't seem like much, but I can tell you my own mother-in-law never received a dime of child support from an ex husband who claimed bankruptcy (after transferring all his assets to his girlfriend) and left her to support three kids on min. wage all on her own. I think everyone knows at least one single parent who get regularly screwed on their child support. I'm pretty impressed that Biden was able to to get that tiny, TINY little win..something really IS better than nothing.
So I share your anger about that disgusting piece of legislation, but I prefer to focus my anger at the repugnant GOPers that sponsored and pushed it through, not at Biden, who tried to garner a small win out of an unwinnable situation.

[surfermaw]

82. No one puts money in your back Pocket unless they think you a winner

Biden was going to run, somehow I remember the GOP hitting him hard and he was out early. Any one remember what is was about. I kind of like Joe my self, that is after Edwards

[Clintonista2]

13. That has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever read on DU

"I'd like to support him, but I get too much junkmail from his state"

[ginchinchili]

44. Are you aware of any senators or governors who aren't supportive ....

of the primary industries that bring jobs to their states? I'm not. And if there were, they wouldn't be senator or governor for very long.

[Seabiscuit]

63. "B but there is a disconnect in there somewhere"

You mean inside your skull? As in brain waves gone flat?

Biden has nothing to do with your credit card junk mail.

[IronLionZion]

67. That has nothing to do with anything does it?

All up in it loving it strong! This is a good day for Joe Biden. It shows he's an important candidate now that the DU attacks are coming.

[rucky]

71. Out of all the Senators who voted for that god-awful bill...

he's the only one who has a somewhat legitimate reason.

It's not like Congressman Boehner passing out checks from the tobacco lobby on the House floor - even though we don't grow a single tobacco plant in our district.

Yes, I wish Biden had taken a more principled stand on that one, but under the circumstances, it's not a dealbreaker for me.

[Godhumor]

85. The mail comes form Delaware because almost all corporations are incorporated there

It is the single most corporate friendly state in the entire country, and 90% of the Fortune 500 call it home.

Now, I'm not going to get into whether this is a good thing or a bad thing, but that's why you get the mail from there.

[illinoisprogressive]

11. Biden is my husband's second choice, too! Edwards is my 2 and Biden 3

[calteacherguy]

14. Well, Biden is a good guy, but given he has 0% chance of winning the nomination.

Who cares what your second choice is?

[Clintonista2]

16. Please tell me what you base that on?

Kerry was polling at around 4%ish(?) this time last primary season.

[calteacherguy]

24. You are 100% convinced Clinton will win. Don't play games, please. nt

[Clintonista2]

26. Please don't tell me what I am "100% convinced" of.

I'm not "100% convinced" of anything. I think it's a pretty ignorant statement (even for you) to claim that Biden has a "0% chance" to win the nomination, unless you have your magic Dem primary crystal ball handy.

[calteacherguy]

36. It's clear he has 0% chance. I stand by the statement. nt

[Clintonista2]

37. As a poster below pointed out...

John Kerry called. He wants you to stop being a dope. Oh, and he wants you to stop claiming to be a teacher.

[calteacherguy]

38. I'm not claiming, and Kerry doesn't have my number. nt

[karynnj]

73. That post and yours are idiotic - or should I follow suit and say that

HRC wants you two to stop making her look bad.

[Clintonista2]

75. Thanks Karynnj!

I can tell I'm still sane when Karynnj tries to insult me. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Think82]

27. Calteacher, moronic negative blanket statements like that causes people to not take you seriously

[Clintonista2]

29. People stopped taking him seriously after his "McClurkins comments were taken out of context!" quote

And his "Obama was right not to drop McClurkin" posts.

[Think82]

30. the fact he might actually be a teacher scares me for the next generation

[Clintonista2]

31. Yea hahaha, it reminds me of one of his posts a while ago..

Smearing Edwards over some stupid thing, and his post was riddled with spelling and grammar errors. Everybody responding was terrified with the thought of him teaching, especially since, if I remember correctly, he claimed to have a masters in english...

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Clintonista2]

35. That's why I don't claim to be a teacher. nm.

[calteacherguy]

39. Indeed, why would you? nt

[Clintonista2]

41. Why would you?

[ginchinchili]

45. heehee - touche'

[calteacherguy]

51. I don't. nt

[Debi]

64. Hey teacher, go read the DU rules about calling other DUers names

x(

[calteacherguy]

34. .

:eyes:

Spare me the melodrama.

[calteacherguy]

32. Quotes were taken out of context, and Obama was right not to drop him.

McClurkin endorsed Obama, not the other way around. Some folks are just too dense to get it.

[Forkboy]

84. You mean there was a time he was to be taken seriously to start with?

[earthlover]

47. Excellent point!

Biden may well be the "sleeper" of this race. Why was it that Hillary, Edwards and Obama began this race as the top tier? They were basically named as such by the media. Do ANY of them have as much experience as Biden? Can we distinguish ANY of them as being substantively better than Biden on the issues? Just why was it that Hillary/Edwards/Obama are our three choices?

I have recently come to narrow my preference to either Biden or Edwards. I had been leaning Obama, but I am now getting gun-shy on him for the same reason as Hillary: electability.

Biden certainly has the ability to "look presidential". He has foreign policy knowledge, loads of experience, has been fairly liberal, and looks sincere. I don't fear him in the general, or in the debates, at all. He would do his thing, and I think he would easily be elected.

In order for Biden to get the nomination: 1) Hillary must stumble, 2) Obama must fade, and 3) Edwards needs to not gain momentum.
If the top tier gets tiresome, Biden would be in a position to offer an alternative.

[Joe the Revelator]

18. John Kerry Called...

he wants you to stop being a dope.

[earthlover]

48. Isn't it true, calteacherguy, that YOU have changed your mind on whom you support?

Then it follows that second choices do count....

[Clintonista2]

49. Here's (what I have found to be) the deal with Calteacherguy...

He started out as an Obama supporter. Maybe not in public, but I could tell which way he was leaning. Then, one day, he started calling himself a Clinton supporter. He would use every opportunity possible to start a sentence off with "Now I'm a Clinton supporter but...", before criticising her, and praising Obama for doing the opposite. Then, during the McClurkin debacle, his true colors came out, and he made a bunch of posts defending McClurkin (Not defending Obama, he was actually defending MCCLURKIN). Sometimes we still see him starting a sentence with the phrase "I'm a Clinton supporter but...", but he really doesn't have very much credibility anymore.

[IronLionZion]

68. Bush had 0% chance of being president, Clinton had 0%, Carter too

and apparently John F Kennedy had a snowball's chance in hell of even getting the nomination. I'll take the chance.

[David Zephyr]

21. Well, I am warming to Biden, but can he pull it off? Is there momentum his way?

I think that Joe Biden may just be the dark horse that could surprise everyone. It's just very, very late in the process and he doesn't have any money.

[jillan]

22. I think you should go make a very large donation to him :)

He is picking up momentum. Now we just have to wait to see if the msm begins to notice.

[Think82]

28. He's going ot do well in Iowa. All he has ot do is beat expecations and media attention and $

will follow, which have been missing from the campaign

[PatSeg]

50. His momentum is building right now

Just go back one month and notice the difference. This is quite incredible.

[mmonk]

40. He is a good choice.

He is in a tie in my choices.

[avrdream]

42. Me 2.

[ginchinchili]

46. You're heading in the right direction

[Skip Intro]

52. Me too. More and more.

I think he'd kick the repuke's nominee right outta the ring.

He's looking better and better.

[gateley]

53. For those of you considering Biden for his electability, foreign policy experience,

etc., It's my hope that if you do decide to commit, that you will experience the excitement, admiration and conviction that many of us feel about him. So many of us are more absolutely sure of our decision than we've ever been of a candidate previously. We continue to become more convinced of our choice the more we learn of him. He fills us with pride. I wish this for you as well - it just feels so good! :hi:

[Think82]

54. I share that sentiment.

[mrigirl]

55. So don't I

[ginchinchili]

59. I very much do. Looks like you're out numbered here mrgirl.

It's just that he's the best qualified candidate to be president on day one of the next administration.

[mrigirl]

77. What? I don't understand your post ginchinchili.

I was agreeing with everyone that he was the best choice. maybe I misread the post.

[mrigirl]

78. Forget it. I should have said so DO I!

[PatSeg]

56. Right now Biden was more right on Pakistan than I think

he'd like to have been:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3052837

[pacalo]

57. I like his bite, which is so appropriate for the time we're in.

His biting words have sting & he does it with a smile. Those who give diplomatic, let's-work-together rhetoric come off looking apathetic, in contrast to the 'thugs' blatant sense of lawlessness.

But I'll never forget the especially stinging words he had for Ashcroft through clenched teeth during a hearing about torture: "There's a reason we have treaties: to protect my son in the military."

I'd be very happy with him as the nominee & as president. I'd love to see him debating a 'thug one on one.

[ginchinchili]

60. I like his passion, and he's not afraid to show if from time to time.

The guy has a lot of character with the personal integrity to keep it in line. We used to have a lot more people in our country like that, but it has become so rare. We might never have the opportunity for vote for someone with his kind of class again.

[Faryn Balyncd]

58. For me, he's gone from #7, to perhaps #1 - (his values are basically sound) - - and he CAN WIN!!!

Biden, unlike some front-runners, will not only NOT unify and energize the Republican base, but he has significant direct appeal to independents, and to lapsed and disaffected Republicans.

We won those swing voters in 2006. But we will win in 2008 only if we both inspire our own base and also continue to win the independent vote.

Biden can do both. Can we say that of each of our current front-runners?

(If we can say the same of another front-runner, does that individual have the momentum, political moxie, and persona to actually win our nomination, or are they floundering?)








How much time do we have to coalesce behinf a winner?

[Honeycombe8]

61. He's clearly the most qualified. But Americans don't elect long-standing senators ....

to be Presidents. The last time they did...well, I can't think of such a time, although I'm sure it must've happened once or twice.

The President would be smart to appoint him Sec. of State, though.

[ginchinchili]

62. There is no rule as to who Americans will or won't elect.

Of course Americans have elected senators in the past, but that's beside the point. It is determined by the conditions on the ground. It's determined by what is currently going on with the country, both domestically and on the international front, and it's determined by the recent past as well, i.e., the Bush administration. It's determined by the political mood of the American electorate, and it's determined by who all is running, by the specific qualities of each candidate.

It's different each time, and since we've had a bozo with limited experience screwing things up for the last 7 years and some serious dark clouds on the horizon, both over seas and domestically, many of us think ol' Sen. Biden would be a perfect fit. He also has the wits and passion to kick ass in a general election. He's the one for 2008.

[Inuca]

74. Agree with one exception

the dark clouds are not on the horizon, they are right on top of our heads.

[ginchinchili]

76. I stand corrected.

Though they get even darker on the horizon.

[Honeycombe8]

80. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I wish it weren't so. But no, America has

not in recent history elected a long-term senator. It is to Clinton's and Obama's and Edwards' advantage that they are/were senators for not that long. It is no accident that one of the main problems Clinton is having is with votes that she has cast as senator.

The last senator elected was JFK, I think. And he had been a one-term senator, I think. And he won by a slight margin...and rumor has it that his father fixed some votes to make that happen. Well, it's more than rumor.

In the current climate, it is likely that a short-term senator would get elected. But if history is any indication, there is almost no chance for a long-term senator to get elected. There's just too much fodder for the opposition to use to attack with. If someone votes against a bill because it doesn't go far enough, or because something horrible is tacked on...the claim can be made that the person voted "against" that wonderful bill. It's true, but that's not the reason he didn't vote for it. It's easy to attack long-term senators in that way.

[ginchinchili]

87. Hmmm... are you trying to mislead the people on DU?

If not, then quote me where I state that America has, as you state, "in recent history elected a long-term senator." And do you know why President was a one term senator? And perhaps you should read my entire post. You talk about long-term senators and short-term senators as if they were a breed all to their own, with one being allowed to be president and the other not. Biden's experience is the biggest plus anyone in the election has. Sorry if that makes the candidate you are supporting seem puny.

[Debi]

91. Your agrument could be used, then, to argue against many of the candidates running

Clinton - no woman ever elected
Obama - no African American ever elected
Richardson - no Hispanic ever elected
Kucinich - no Member of the House of Representatives in recent history - or ever - elected
Dodd & Biden - no long serving Senator in recent history elected
Gravel - no Alaskan elected

Edwards ends up the ONLY choice as Richard Nixon proved, former Senators (who have run for president in the past)can come back and win a presidental election.

[jillan]

88. The same could be said about women, African-Americans or people that have a nervous tic.

[CrispyQ]

65. I think he has a level of leadership that none of the other candidates can match.

I hadn't even considered him as a candidate until about a month ago. I can't remember what turned me onto him, but every time I hear him I like him more & more!