TPM + TPM Cafe: Rough Night for Hillary

[mod mom]

Hillary in the Debate

10.31.07 -- 10:53AM
By Josh Marshall
The post-debate spin seems to be that Hillary had a pretty rough night. Early in the debate I noted her unflappability and her refusal to ever flub a debate question. But I admit it got a lot rougher toward the end, perhaps especially on the immigration question. Frontrunners can and usually do get away without giving many specifics. That's just how campaigns work. The other contenders can and should try to hammer on that and force her to show her hand on key issues. But let's not kid ourselves about the fact that this is hardly unique or new to Hillary.

That said, she does seem to be taking it to an almost absurd length. To me, the illegal immigrant driver's license exchange was less interesting because of her evasion than because of the dual personality she's brought to the debate. Most frontrunners dodge tough questions or give politically safe answers. But Hillary also wanted to have a serious-minded conversation about the question, noting the public safety rationales behind the very unpopular policy of giving driver's licenses to illegals. She actually grappled with the issue and pointed to the apparent necessity of the policy. But as soon as it came to 'endorsing', which here meant embracing the logical extension of everything she just said, she pulled back.

It's almost as if her background as a serious policy person is coming back to bite her. She can't restrain herself from injecting actual policy discussions into her public presentation as an annoying teflon frontrunner.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/057518.php

TPMCafers Respond to Dem Debate

10.31.07 -- 10:54AM
By David Kurtz
M.J. Rosenberg:

Most important for me was that the Iran issue was at last confronted. I think that her vote for Kyl-Lieberman was Hillary's big mistake of the campaign season.


Greg Anrig:

To continue to shy away from attacking conservative ideology, which is the root cause of almost all of the Bush administration’s failures, amounts to political malpractice.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/057517.php

[Cha]

1. Yee-aah..

"Most important for me was that the Iran issue was at last confronted. I think that her vote for Kyl-Lieberman was Hillary's big mistake of the campaign season.


Greg Anrig:

To continue to shy away from attacking conservative ideology, which is the root cause of almost all of the Bush administration’s failures, amounts to political malpractice."

Grrr..

[mod mom]

2. They Kyl Lieberman vote wasn't just a campaign error, it was an enabling vote for

the neocons to use if they go ahead with their crazy strategy of attacking Iran. Just as her vote in the IWR was fateful so is her Kyl-Lieberman vote. It's very telling, regardless of what later spin she attempts to put on it.

[truedelphi]

3. I had been just about to forgive and forget about the IWR whenshe voted for the Iran Bill

And now as I realize that she is surrounded by ghouls, I can't face voting for her. Any time for any reason.

[superkia]

4. She also stated that Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons when...

there has been no evidence of that, sounds like another Iraq war lead up. Notice how she said a few times that she is not for A RUSH TO WAR, not that she is not for a war but a rush to war with Iran. If we make her the nominee, we are guaranteed more war and death from either her or the republican that beats her.