The quiet ones.

[Mother Of Four]

Bear with me, I've got a short but winding path before I get to my point.

I've not been polled, I've not been asked by any newspaper or organization who it is I support. None of my very large family, or equally large group of friends has been asked either.

I have friends all over the united states, I took some time to call some of them and say "Hey, do me a favor. Ask around and see who people will support ok? I'm curious."

Here is what I've found. Roughly 30 percent of the people I know, and the people THEY know are republicans. No biggie there, like I said in an earlier post just because someone is a different party doesn't make them evil.

Of all the people that were asked, in this weird kind of feeling out the tiny masses thing, there is an undercurrent of support for different candidates. Many of them can't understand how Hillary is so high in the polls when none of them really know many at all who support her.

Of the ones who do support her, and this is NOT directed to Hillary supporters here, they creep the others out. I can't lay out every quote that I've heard, but the general thought is they are over the top, kindof like the epitome of what RW want others to think of the Dem party. "Ravening moon bat" sort of thing.

The quiet ones, the ones that don't yell at the sky about their candidate, tend to be the ones that carry the day.

Bush was elected by a majority of the Quiet ones the second go round, the ones who stood back and shook their heads at the whole thing. The ones that voted for him because they wanted "Anything but Kerry" due to the bad press over "Swiftboating"

What makes me wonder, is why is Hillary being steamrolled into the position? There will be many people who will vote for the other, because "Anything but a woman" "Anything but another Clinton" and "Anything but Hillary herself"

She has so much dirt that can be drug out over and over again. Everyone here knows the deal on that. If anyone thinks she can stand up to it, I respectfully state that John Kerry had weathered the "Swiftboating" numerous times over the years and that didn't help much when the guns were going full blast.

I am a Quiet one, I only made a few phone calls...sent a couple emails. I don't' have a sign in my yard, a bumper sticker, or a button on my shirt.

But...I do vote.

Now, the point to this post is this. All the slavering needs to stop, support your candidate in a way that will bring PRIDE to the party. This Quiet one is starting to shake her head, and starting to talk to others. Like many other Quiet ones do, over coffee, in the grocery store, at the park, at the schools. (I have one in elementary, one in middle and two in high school) I talk to them about two of the other candidates, Obama and Edwards. I also talk to them reasonably about why I do not support Hillary, I'm finally able to articulate why I wouldn't vote for her and it's serving me very well to explain my position in a way that I'm getting people to nod their heads.

We do not need another Republican in the white house at this time, we need a true Democrat that can bring us back to what's important and make us proud again. Time changes, and twists...but RIGHT NOW, we have to have a Democrat.

I'm afraid that if Hillary gets what she wants now, it will take away what we ALL want later.

[Vickers]

1. Well, that's one of the more subtle anti-HRC posts.

Instead of all the rigmarole, why not just state your reasons for supporting *your* particular candidate? :shrug:

[Mother Of Four]

2. Because it's not Anti Hillary-

It's an appeal to people, to stop what you just did. "Instead of all the rigmarole," Why call my personal opionions that? If Hillary gets the nomination, good on her...however being hateful isn't going to support her, it will only make it that much worse.


If you support Hillary, you support Hillary. Ok..that's you. Just like I would never tell any Republican friends of mine "Hey, you need to switch parties ...your party (hateful terms here) and you need to come to mine."

I'm not going to call what you say bull.

All I am asking, is if you truly support your candidate, support them in a way that brings pride to the entire party instead of bringing the party down.

[Vickers]

3. "if you truly support your candidate..."

"...support them in a way that brings pride to the entire party instead of bringing the party down."

Physician, heal thyself.

[Mother Of Four]

5. See what I mean?

Get up from the computer, go into the bathroom. Look at yourself in the mirror there and really think. Is THIS how you want other people who are undeclared to view the party?

As closed, unwilling to look at others positions, unable to actually talk over things that are important because you can't see any view but your own?

How about this, since you think "Physician heal thyself" is appropriate. I'm going to list some good things about Hillary, even though I don't agree with her on many things and I don't personally like her.

She is STRONG, determined, knows what she wants. She is able to stand in the face of division, and not back up. She has been through hell and back with her husband, where most women have to face infidelity in a smaller way...she had an entire nation dissect her relationship and make joke after joke about it and STILL came out smiling at the end.

Would she be the best candidate for the party in my opinion, no. However, I'm not going to be sarcastic to you, and say "Well, she's crap and my candidate is the best WOO WOO!"

It's not only demeaning to her, but to the person posting it, and to others reading it.

My POINT, is that if you want her to win if she gets the nomination...

You can't keep this up. You have to draw people in to her, not drive them away.

[Vickers]

6. I just did a quick search of all your posts.

I'd say roughly 75% are anti-Hillary.

Again, why not simply state your reasons for supporting *your* favorite candidate instead of this hit-piece? :shrug:

[Mother Of Four]

7. I have two candidates I support,

No firm choice as of yet.

However this isn't what this is about.

A short while ago I did what I just asked YOU to do, took a good hard look at what I want from this whole election.

I am afraid that if Hillary gets the nomination, it won't be HER that looses it. It will be the venom and the infighting after, she already has enough going against her that the election will be difficult if she gets the nomination.

Why on EARTH would you want to make it worse?

I HOPE that she doesn't get the nomination, however...if she does nothing that we are saying here about "Mines better than yourrrrssss nya nya nya" is going to do anything but make public opinion of the party worse. Do you honestly think that only Democrats read these boards?



(Edited to swap one word for a better one)

[Vickers]

11. Here are some posts from you about Clinton:

"Many of us want a president that we can be proud of again."

"Mock, Phony, Fabricated. nt"

"This doesn't sound like a presidential contender...This sounds more like a college student with a picket sign."

"I don't WANT another Bush"

"Haven't we been embarrassed enough for almost 20 years?"

"I know without a shadow of a doubt, that there are many people who feel the same way I do about Hillary Clinton. With each and every new performance, my dislike grows on an exponential level."

"I'm sure she has many great things about her, but frankly I just can't see them."

"It's very simple, I have no feelings but pure unadulterated dislike bordering on disgust when I hear her speak or see her on the television."

etc. etc.

[Mother Of Four]

12. EXACTLY

Didn't I just state that I JUST did what I asked you to do?

Go look at myself in the mirror and say "How do I want people to look at the people I support, and the party in general?"

If I knew how to delete my darn posts I would, because frankly I'm a little ashamed of myself for posting them. I bought into all the bashing, and thats not like me in person.

[Vickers]

16. You've really matured in the last 15 days.

:eyes:

[Mother Of Four]

18. You've never ..

Had an Epiphany?

[DemBones DemBones]

19. She said she likes Obama and Edwards

and that she's been telling people so. She also tells people why she thinks Hillary shouldn't, and won't win.

A lot of us at DU and in the real world think Hillary shouldn't and won't win.

I used to say she should be president instead of Bill. I respect her intelligence and as a woman, I'd like to see a woman president in my lifetime. But not a woman president who would make it impossible to elect another woman for 50-100 years, which I think is a possibility if Hillary is elected.

I think Hillary shouldn't win because of her positions. She'll keep up the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, she voted for the Kyl-Lieberman Amendment to give W permission to bomb Iran. She voted for the Iraq War Initiative and has never apologized for that vote. Ditto for PATRIOT Act I and II. Her health care plan is badly flawed. She supports NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT, the WTO. She's as DLC as Bill and now we know how his administration set things up for the last eight years. He hangs out with Poppy Bush now, the ties are just too close. Bill can make you believe anything, he's a charmer, but when you look at his record, it's not good.

I think Hillary won't win because a lot of people really dislike her. I don't, I just don't like her politics. But a lot of people do dislike her and the GOP will do all they can to destroy her. Granted, they'll do that to anybody we run. But everybody who hated Bill hates Hillary and I think they can expand that base by reminding people of all the sordid details of the sex scandals involving her husband. A lot of people have no respect for her because she stayed with him. I always thought that was strictly a private matter but many don't. Some of the religious right are saying they'd vote for the serial adulterer, pro-abortion Giuliani to keep Hillary from winning.

Add to that all the Democrats and independents who dislike her policies and it's a good recipe for disaster.

[ladyVet]

9. I like the way you put your points out.

There's going to be a lot of bashing of every candidate before it's all over, but at some point, we're all going to be standing in the voting booth with a choice to make.

My thinking is, I'll put my support now behind the person I think is the best candidate. If that person isn't the nominee come November '08, then I have to decide if I'll vote for someone I don't like, vote third party, or not vote at all. Seems pretty simple to me.

[Adelante]

8. But you are doing the same thing

How does your OP bring pride to the entire party? I'm not a Clinton supporter, but you behave as if she and her supporters are not part of the party.

[Mother Of Four]

10. They are most definately part of the party.

The reason for the OP is because of what I've found talking to people off of the boards. Is it so wrong to ask people to actually support their candidate in a way that brings dignity and pride?

[Vickers]

13. "Is it so wrong to ask people to actually support their candidate..."

"...in a way that brings dignity and pride?"

You *do* see the irony between your Clinton posts and your advice, right?

[Mother Of Four]

20. Reread #12 please.

Thanks.

[Adelante]

15. Your OP is a bash Hillary OP like any other

You just have it couched in fluff.

Without the fluff:

Of the ones who do support her, and this is NOT directed to Hillary supporters here, they creep the others out.

What makes me wonder, is why is Hillary being steamrolled into the position? There will be many people who will vote for the other, because "Anything but a woman" "Anything but another Clinton" and "Anything but Hillary herself"

She has so much dirt that can be drug out over and over again.

[sufrommich]

14. You stated that the consensus you find among

the people you talk to is that Clinton supporters are "creepy",how does putting that purely anecdotal information out "bring pride to the entire party"? You seem to be asking people to respect Democratic candidates while at the same time,getting your digs in against one of them in particular.

[Mother Of Four]

17. Forget it,

This is like trying to swim upstream.

For the record, I don't find them 'creepy' its a summary of what many people I've talked with have given the impression of.

You know...human beings aren't perfect. I'm a person that truly believes if you have a change of heart it's nothing to be ashamed of. I suppose I'm the only one who feels that way.

[Adelante]

21. Lots of DUers find them creepy, apparently

But you absolve Clinton's supporters who are DUers.

"Of the ones who do support her, and this is NOT directed to Hillary supporters here, they creep the others out."

So if it's not Clinton supporters here who are "creepy" then it must be her supporters in the real world who are "creepy" -- which from the polls would seem there are an awful lot of "creepy" Democrats out there.

Dignity and pride in the party, right.

[Mother Of Four]

22. If I don't think of them that way...

Then of course I'm going to make sure they know that I don't. So many misunderstandings happen through text, and this is a perfect example. You can't see facial expression, can't hear tone of voice, and can't see how they sit or stand.

If when I had talked to these people, they had stated some of the things I heard like "They give off a really bad vibe." "They don't listen, they just want to shove (candidate) down your throat." "They act like (candidate) is a new messiah - It's creepy" about Obama or Edwards supporters, I would have been embarrassed and ashamed and then worked VERY hard to change that view.

As it was, I actually talked to them about how articulate and intelligent the posters are here. How even if I don't agree with their choice, they have valid reasons for backing her.

*I* do not think of them that way, I look at them as very dedicated people who want with all their hearts for their candidate to win.



(Edited, re-read it and don't want another misunderstanding)

[sufrommich]

23. You inserted an anti Clinton post into the middle of a

" why can't we all just get along" post.You got called on it. If there is an epiphany buried in your OP,I fail to see it.
I would venture to say, judging by the recent polls, that Clinton's numbers reveal that the real "quiet ones" seem to be going her way, regardless of the myriad of anecdotes being bandied about on the internets.

[Mother Of Four]

24. All the more reason to change course...

And start being resonable, if she does get nominated its going to take patience, reasoning and good support to get her into the whitehouse.

Again, why on earth would you want to make it more difficult to get her elected?

She has many things in her past that can be drug up, everyone knows darn well that the media doesn't focus on "Good happiness and light" They want it down and dirty so their ratings will go up.

Look at when a crisis hits, they don't ask someone sensible. They find the worst person possible to represent what happened, to "Highlight" the tragedy.

I do NOT want a Republican as POTUS, if she gets nominated I may do a write in, I may not...I don't know yet. However I do know that the supporters that give the rest a bad name will be in the worst possible light, while leaving the good ones in shadow.

The media will fall on them like a pack of hounds, that is something I don't want. I don't want DEMOCRACY to fail again.

[sufrommich]

25. I don't fear the right wing smear machine.

and neither should you,no matter who our candidate is. They are all heads and shoulders above anyone the reps are able to conjure up. You want dignity for your party? Stop feeding the meme that we have ANY democratic candidates who are unable to lead this country 1000% better than it's been run for the last 8 years. That's the only message we need.

[Mother Of Four]

26. Point taken and very well made.

Going to go and digest that one.

[sufrommich]

27. ...

:toast: . Well, now you've made me feel incredibly guilty for jumping on you.Peace, and may the Democrats win the White House(any of them).

[jmp]

4. ...

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