Obama: "Let's be clear: without that vote there would have been no war."

[calteacherguy]

Poll question: Obama: "Let's be clear: without that vote there would have been no war."

[AtomicKitten]

1. how about this quote?

"And we need to ask those who voted for the war: How can you give the president a blank check and then act surprised when he cashes it?"

* Barack Obama

[calteacherguy]

2. What about Dodd's statement today. The NYT interview.

There a link to that anywhere?

Edit: You know, the one where Obama allegedly said he didn't know how he would have voted.

[AtomicKitten]

3. try my sig line link

I accept your apology.

[Colobo]

6. Hehehehehe.

[calteacherguy]

7. I see. Yes, well I think Obama makes a good point there.

There is no telling how he would have voted. So Obama making political hay out of Hillary's vote now loses quite a bit of it's punch.

I do appreciate his honesty back then, sincerely.

[Colobo]

9. He was right. She was wrong. End of the story.

[calteacherguy]

10. Um, no.

It's not the end of the story. Not until the voting's done.

[Colobo]

13. We need to question the judgment of a senator who votes for

one of the biggest foreign policy blunders in history. In fact, one has to wonder: where's her so-called experience? Where's her judgement? Can she lead?

[calteacherguy]

47. Good questions, but she's won the debate on that. nt

[babylonsister]

49. In your dreams. nt

[calteacherguy]

50. By "won the debate" I mean only that it will not prevent her from being the nominee. nt

[Dawgs]

19. She voted for it. He didn't, and based on his comments he wouldn't have voted for it.

I would agree with you if he wasn't so passionate about his anti-war stance, but that is not what happened.

[AtomicKitten]

12. hardly

And thanks for glossing over the part where Hillary's campaign used a carefully sculpted quote and you little monkeys jumped all over it. Pavlov! Arrf.

* Pay no attention to Obama's 2002 speech slamming the war on Iraq.
* Pay no attention to the ENTIRE quote in my sig line, you know, the quote Hillary circumcised where he said the case for war was not made.
* Pay no attention to the quote right in the article in my sig line where Obama said he would have voted with Dick Durbin who voted no on the IWR.

Okay, let's review:

1) Hillary voted yes on the IWR. Check.
2) Hillary voted yes on the Kyl-Lieberman amendment. Check.

Nope, Obama's punch on the war is solid. Pow!

[hedda_foil]

5. It was a gotcha question asked of him shortly before his convention speech in '04.

His full answer made it very clear that he had spoken out against the war well before the vote -- when it could easily have destroyed his chance of the Dem Senate nomination (which he was anything but a sure thing for at that point) and that he hadn't seen anything that changed his mind since then, but he hadn't seen everything the Senators had seen. It was a truthful statement as far as it went and it let him avoid dissing the Presidential and Vice Presidential nominees on the eve of their nomination. The question was asked to get him on record as disagreeing with the candidates' positions -- which would have been hugely destructive and incredibly inappropriate at that time.

[calteacherguy]

8. at that time...

Well, it seems times have changed. Isn't that called in some circles being a poltical opportunist? And I do like Obama, don't get me wrong...but I think he may be overplaying his hand on this one issue.

[ripple]

23. No, the political opportunists are those who voted for the IWR,

in order to further their political ambitions. They didn't want to be seen as 'weak on terror' and they knew that's how they would have been portrayed in the post-911 climate. Obama took the risk and spoke up when a) it wasn't necessary for him to do so and b)he faced very real political risks in doing so. He should be pointing that out at every turn.

[Dawgs]

24. You're right.

Unfortunately, the Hillary supporters have received their talking points on this and will not budge. It's right out of Rove's handbook.

[AZ Criminal JD]

11. Good spin n/t

[LWolf]

22. Like voting to fund the war, right? n/t

[murielm99]

4. I have to side with Obama on this one. n/t

[Skip Intro]

14. Sorry. Misplaced ranting.

[pnwmom]

15. Without that Oct. IWR vote, there would have been a January IWR vote --

with the Republicans in control. And Bush would have had a blank check to attack anywhere not just in Iraq, but anywhere in the middle east -- anywhere in the world, according to Chuck Hagel.

Defeating the Oct. IWR would only have delayed the inevitable. And by agreeing to the more limited version of the IWR in October, the Dems hoped to limit approval to Iraq and keep Bush from attacking Iran. Otherwise, the Repubs would have passed Bush's preferred IWR in January and we'd probably already be in Iran.

[AtomicKitten]

17. that's nothing short of rationalization for war and more war

[CTLawGuy]

59. then why didn't the republicans vote to expand the war

when they DID take full control in Jan 2003? Methinks Bush got all the authority he wanted....

[aquart]

16. I actually think he's wrong there.

Ignoring Congress is what George does best. Has there been a Congressional declaration of war, yet?

That does not make the vote right, or the voters guilt free

[Dawgs]

21. Well, of course Bush would have gone to war, but the law still says that Congress must approve war.

[shimmergal]

53. But no wars after WWII have

actually been declared by Congress before U.S. participation.

Bush & Cheney were all ginned up to invade Iraq from the first day they took office. The IWR gave them some cover, but they would have done it anyway. Sorry, on this one I think Obama's wrong.

[TwilightZone]

18. Those voting Agree are "misunderestimating" Bush's resolve.

Had IWR failed, he would have done it anyway. Mr. Signing Statement, Executive Order, Recess Appointment would have found a way.

[Alamom]

20. Exactly. nm

[killbotfactory]

25. And Bush would have all the blood on his hands

Instead of sharing the blame with democrats.

[baldguy]

27. Bush would have had Saddam "attack" some poor bastard in a US uniform.

[wyldwolf]

26. If he'd been in the Senate, would he have showed up for that vote?

[Tellurian]

28. Good Poll Question...nm

[zulchzulu]

29. I guess it beats voting for BOTH the war in Iraq AND Iran

Ah yes... the power to vote...the wrong way consistently...

:crazy:

[wyldwolf]

31. Oh, sure. Not being bothered to vote is always better. LOL.

[killbotfactory]

32. Actively supporting evil is worse than running away from it.

[wyldwolf]

34. running away from it is worse than standing up to it.

[jefferson_dem]

48. Better to not do shit than to do shit wrong...

Right-o.

[MalloyLiberal]

57. hahahaha

[Hippo_Tron]

30. The new Republican Congress would've passed it anyway

But it would've given the Democrats more long term credibility and possibly the election in 2004 if they had presented a united front against it in.

[paulk]

33. Bush had already said that he didn't need the IWR to invade

Iraq.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A61040-2002Aug25?language=printer

This line of attack from Obama is a loser. Obama has decided to court the anti-war left for the primary vote and it is backfiring... witnesss HRC's jump in the polling.

[killbotfactory]

36. So what was the point of the IWR?

The people who voted for it claim that it was to "further diplomacy" by giving Bush the threat to overthrow Saddam's regime. That just confirms what I knew, the democrats who supported the IWR and the following war on Iraq are a bunch of craven gutless liars.

[Tellurian]

38. Baloney...Read this link in it's entirety

posted up thread by Paulk:

Approval was given right after the WTC Attack to retaliate to a Terrorist attack..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A61040-2002Aug25?language=printer

OBAMA falls on this sword...Pathetic, if he didn't realize a major pillar of his Campaign is nothing more than sewage wrapped in a Vote for Obama package.

[Capn Sunshine]

39. Hillary Talking points

geese , give it up.

[Tellurian]

42. Obama needs to find something worthwhile as a campaign issue...

cuz The Iraq War Vote ain't gonna do it for him.

Really stupid to heavily promote a campaign issue on the War Vote that was a misnomer to begin with...

Waiting to hear how Obama answers Dodd's calling him out on the "how he was against the war/how he would have voted" issue..

[sandnsea]

45. He said he wasn't going to go to war too

That vote made it easier to invade, just like the Iran vote has made it easier to ramp up military actions there. Hillary is not John Kerry. She's Joe Lieberman, just lying about it. Obama is making huge mistakes in his campaign, but that doesn't mean Hillary is a good choice. She's not. Nothing is going to change, she's just going to put a happy face on the global slaughter.

[Tellurian]

46. I'm glad you support Unions...They're supporting Hillary Big Time!

[Clintonista2]

35. Irony

Has Obama ever voted? On anything?

[Tellurian]

37. Obama is not a very reliable representative of his constituency..

Just like Bush. I MUST campaign. How many votes has Obama missed since he's been on the Campaign Trail?

[Capn Sunshine]

40. More Hillary Talking points

the puppet show asked and answered episode continues......

[Tellurian]

43. No, I'd say, they're Obama talking points...

Wheres his quick response team? I hope you're not it.

[Ethelk2044]

54. Hillary talking points as usual. She is hopeless

[Tellurian]

55. Look at the thread title... Obama: "Let's be clear: without that vote there would have been no war."

Obama and yourself included, makes 61 people who don't know what they're talking about.

[jillan]

41. Those of you that have read PNAC know that Bush would have invaded Iraq no matter what.

The IWR just made it easier for him.

[Tellurian]

44. With or without permission from anyone..

isn't that the Truth!

[riqster]

51. Damn straight, it was the only way Bush could find oil

Laws are just pieces of paper, right?

[karynnj]

52. Did he read the Downing Street Memo?

It was clear from the parts in the press that they would have fabricated a provocation. Was Obama one of the 10 Senators who signed to get the Intelligence committee to investigate this as part of the WMD, part 2 report?


There would have been a war even if the bill failed. The bill couldn't fail as all the Republicans and Leiberman and Miller were on board. Many Democrats worked on trying to fix the language - limiting it to Iraq, taking out reasons other than imminent threat. They got more Bush promises on what he would do. Bush then had a signing statement that essentially dismissed any limits on the power to attack an imminent threat.

With another President, once the inspectors were in and Saddam was even destroying missiles to avoid war - there would have been no war.
With Bush, ANY resolution - including the Biden/Lugar measure preferred by Democrats, would have been dealt with the same way. Bush violated every promise he made to the Senators to get their votes. He would have done the same had the Levin amendment been included.

It would have been better had no Democrat voted for it - because of the way the Republicans and many Democrats have used it to assign the same blame to Democrats. There were 6 months between the IWR and the invasion. The inspectors were there for the first time in 4 years and it became clearer that there was no reason to attack. But, only Bush made the decision.

Where Obama is on shakier ground is the question of whether there would be war. The fact is that a President can start a conflict and continue it for 60 days without Congress, at which point it would be a fait accompli and with troops there it would be approved.

[MalloyLiberal]

56. Wrong.

Bush wouldjust have found another excuse.

[BenDavid]

58. DUH! And..............