Edwards jabs at Bill Clinton for NAFTA.....HRC pollster Penn responds

[TeamJordan23]

Edwards jabs at former President Clinton
By AMY LORENTZEN, Associated Press Writer

Democratic presidential contender John Edwards on Monday criticized former President Clinton, arguing that he allowed corporate insiders to shape the 1993 North American Free Trade Agreement that has cost U.S. jobs.

Edwards' complaints about the former president beloved by voters in his own party was a defiant move meant to highlight rival Hillary Rodham Clinton's relationship with special interests. It comes two days after Clinton refused Edwards' challenge to stop taking campaign donations from lobbyists, saying many represent good causes.

"It's time that the president stood up and fought for American workers," Edwards told a crowd of about 300 people at a union hall in Cedar Rapids. "It's time to have a president that always puts the interests of the American people first."

While Edwards' speech did not mention the name Clinton, the object of his complaint was obvious. Edwards criticized the presidential leadership during the 1993 passage of NAFTA, which was started by President George H.W. Bush and pushed through by Clinton. He said the trade agreement between the United States, Mexico and Canada was "written by insiders in all three countries."

Edwards said the policies of President George W. Bush have devastated towns and communities all across America, but "this is not just his doing."

"For far too long, presidents from both parties have entered into trade agreements, agreements like NAFTA, promising that they would create millions of new jobs and enrich communities," he said. "Instead, too many of these agreements have cost jobs and devastated towns and communities across this country."

Responding to the criticism, Hillary Clinton's chief strategist, Mark Penn, issued a memo highlighting recent polls showing the New York senator leading the Democratic field and offering a ready answer to any rivals.

"She is the candidate of experience and change, a combination no other candidate can match. As a result we will likely see more attacks from her Democratic opponents, despite their claims to be practicing a new kind of politics or eschewing intraparty attacks," Penn wrote.

[Bullet1987]

1. Since when is Hillary the candidate of change...lol?

More importantly...where is her rhetoric along the lines of Obama's and Edward's that really challenge the status quo? Because I don't see it. You can't be a change candidate by words only. Obama and Edwards are weathering the attacks against them BECAUSE of this...

[sandnsea]

2. Mommy the boys are hitting me!!

Whhhaaaaaaaa

I guess that's going to be Hillary's response to every criticism.

[Kagemusha]

4. No, "They're just jealous." will be.

The end.

[rinsd]

Yes only the male candidates are allowed to respond when attacked.

Nice misogynist framing there.

[sandnsea]

8. She didn't response

She just whined about them attacking her.

[rinsd]

12. Calling your opponents desperate and on the attack because you are kicking ass is whining?

"She is the candidate of experience and change, a combination no other candidate can match. As a result we will likely see more attacks from her Democratic opponents, despite their claims to be practicing a new kind of politics or eschewing intraparty attacks," Penn wrote."

If anything she's just turning your man's slogan into just that...a slogan.

[sandnsea]

13. Ooooh, borrowing from Dean

That's her strategy. Just whine every time someone "attacks" her. I get it. It worked so well for him.

[rinsd]

14. Dean was whining?

While I thought the cult of personality got a little out of control with the "bat", I would hardly call it whining.

[sandnsea]

17. Same as Hillary

Whine whine whine whine whine. Never answer a valid criticism. Just whine. Incessantly.

[rinsd]

18. Tell you what. Offer up a valid criticism and I will be happy to respond.

Of course that would be a first for you, so I will give you some time to come up with something.

[Clintonista2]

19. Careful... sandnsea will add you to her extra large ignore list

Had that happen to me last time I hit her with a burst of logic.

[sandnsea]

21. Was I talking to you????

No. If you want to respond to my initial observation about Hillary's lame-ass political strategy - then that would be on YOU. Otherwise - just don't talk to me. How freakin' simple is that!

[rinsd]

23. Stop whining about someone engaging you in conversation on a public board.

[sandnsea]

24. I'm still waiting for the engaging conversation

So far it's just been same-old same-old, Clinton style triangulating whining rhetoric.

[rinsd]

25. You were looking for engaging conversation?

What a strange way to do so considering your behavior.

You wanted a fight, you got it, you lost, now you whine that the conversation has turned ugly.

I think we can add projection to your list of personality quirks.

[sandnsea]

27. You said you were bringing the conversation

Maybe I would be more pleasant if people didn't say such stupid things all the time.

:shrug:

[rinsd]

32. "Maybe I would be more pleasant"

Yes, other people made you post a lame ass attack on Hillary.

At least take responsibility for your actions.

[sandnsea]

34. Hillary is whining - I claim that

:shrug:

[frylock]

30. clinton leads = nafta good?!

Maybe Penn can actually address what Edwards stated.

[BigDDem]

20. "She just whined about them attacking her. "

Could you copy and paste the part where she whined? Perhaps I missed it. All I saw was where Mark Penn issued a memo.

[sandnsea]

22. Mark Penn whined

on behalf of Hillary. Better?

[Inuca]

3. Experience & change?

Nice labels, nice contrast, nice framing. Neither label is truly appropriate though.

[Double T]

5. "practicing a new kind of politics " with support for foreign outsourcing..........

companies like India's largest conglomerate, Tata Group. Looks to me like NAFTA HEAVY DUTY will be in our future with HRC at the controls.

[CTyankee]

6. I still love Bill but he was wrong on some things and he admits it.

A biggie was not intervening in the Rwanda genocide. I also cringe at the thought of "don't ask, don't tell" altho he was pushed into coming up with something fast, but it has turned out to be a disaster.

I must admit I was not very informed on NAFTA at the time. My fault, but my eyes glaze over on stuff like that. I think a lot of people just didn't know how the thing would turn out. Plus, Al Gore made such an impassioned defense of it against Ross Perot I didn't think it could be that bad.

But Edwards has raised it as the important issue it is and it should be debated strenuously. Thank you John Edwards!

[TeamJordan23]

7. Does anyone know Bill's current stance on NAFTA? nm

[CTyankee]

9. Good question. I thought he had made a passing reference to it

not turning out the way it should have, but I can't swear to it. At any rate, the issue needs to be discussed to see what can be done now.

[Nite Owl]

10. So what is her stance on

NAFTA? Is she going to make the changes necessary or is this a guessing game?

[Connie_Corleone]

11. That response from Penn doesn't address the main issue.

When is Hillary going to come out with some actual detailed policy plans?

I went to her issues page on her website and all I see are general summaries of her policies, but no detailed plans.

Where's the beef?

[BluegrassDem]

15. NAFTA was a supreme fuck up by the Clintons

Either her or Bill needs to come out and address the NAFTA question, cause there's no doubt that the USA got the bad end of the deal.

[AtomicKitten]

16. Here's the NAFTA vote.

Let's give credit where credit is due: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=103&session=1&vote=00395

YEAs ---61
Baucus (D-MT)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Boren (D-OK)
Bradley (D-NJ)
Breaux (D-LA)
Brown (R-CO)
Bumpers (D-AR)
Chafee (R-RI)
Coats (R-IN)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coverdell (R-GA)
Danforth (R-MO)
Daschle (D-SD)
DeConcini (D-AZ)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dole (R-KS)
Domenici (R-NM)
Durenberger (R-MN)
Gorton (R-WA)
Graham (D-FL)
Gramm (R-TX)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hatfield (R-OR)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Jeffords (R-VT)
Johnston (D-LA)
Kassebaum (R-KS)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerrey (D-NE)
Kerry (D-MA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Mack (R-FL)
Mathews (D-TN)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Mitchell (D-ME)
Moseley-Braun (D-IL)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Murray (D-WA)
Nickles (R-OK)
Nunn (D-GA)
Packwood (R-OR)
Pell (D-RI)
Pressler (R-SD)
Pryor (D-AR)
Robb (D-VA)
Roth (R-DE)
Simon (D-IL)
Simpson (R-WY)
Specter (R-PA)
Wallop (R-WY)
Warner (R-VA)


NAYs ---38
Akaka (D-HI)
Boxer (D-CA)
Bryan (D-NV)
Burns (R-MT)
Byrd (D-WV)
Campbell (D-CO)
Cohen (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Craig (R-ID)
D'Amato (R-NY)
Exon (D-NE)
Faircloth (R-NC)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Ford (D-KY)
Glenn (D-OH)
Heflin (D-AL)
Helms (R-NC)
Hollings (D-SC)
Inouye (D-HI)
Kempthorne (R-ID)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Levin (D-MI)
Metzenbaum (D-OH)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Moynihan (D-NY)
Reid (D-NV)
Riegle (D-MI)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Sasser (D-TN)
Shelby (D-AL)
Smith (R-NH)
Stevens (R-AK)
Thurmond (R-SC)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wofford (D-PA)

Not Voting - 1
Dorgan (D-ND)

[MrRobotsHolyOrders]

26. It is a disingenuous comment by Edwards

NAFTA was still an unknown quantity when passed; I'll knock (Bill) Clinton's presidency all day and all night if given the chance, but to imply that NAFTA was some kind of secret handshake between big business and government would mean that the guilty parties include Gore, Kennedy, Leahy, Murray, and a whole host of pro-worker, progressive politicians.

Foresight is neato, and there were reasons to suspect it wasn't going to work, but if you want to take the heads of the guilty the CAFTA vote seems a more appropriate indictment. It is one thing to vote for a new concept and hope its going to work, and another entirely to see that it is a fucking disaster and ask for seconds.

[AtomicKitten]

28. It's much tidier to blame one entity.

[Midwestern Democrat]

38. His efforts were crucial in getting it passed.

If Bush Sr. had won re-election in 1992, he would not have had a prayer of getting NAFTA through the 1993 congress. NAFTA was at least 30 votes short of passage in the House before Clinton did his full-scale sales job, which included:

1) Promising vulnerable House Republicans fearful of a protectionist backlash from their constituents that he would make an appearance in their district in 1994 in defense of their NAFTA vote if a Democratic opponent tried to use that vote against them.

2) Applying intense, high-pressure lobbying efforts on undecided House members - one congressman quipped that he had been promised three bridges for his district and now all he needed was a river.

3) Appearing on "Meet the Press" and attacking the labor unions - one of the most important and most loyal constituencies of the Democratic Party - for their "real roughshod, muscle-bound tactics" in opposing NAFTA. (A Democrat really said that?!?) After the broadcast, the president of the Teamsters demanded that Clinton apologize to every working man in the country.

Ultimately, politics is about the building and maintenance of coalitions. Members of a political coalition don't expect every single item on their wish list to be granted, but they reasonably expect that their basic core issues (in this case, their very livelihoods) aren't going to be blatantly betrayed. I'm glad that Edwards is speaking out about this so forcefully - I didn't think the man could move any higher in my already high estimation, and low and behold, he just did.

[MrRobotsHolyOrders]

29. Addendum

Mark Penn is a Lovecraftian creature, and I'd totally pay five dollars to kick him squarely in the testicles.

[Uncle Joe]

35. I've always believed NAFTA was a fight against monopoly.

Al Gore's debate with Perot clearly showed what motivated Perot to lobby against it. Perot had his own private NAFTA, he believed it was good enough for him, just not the rest of the nation and Al Gore exposed it on national television, Perot was never the same after that.

I do believe, had Al Gore come to power in 2000, any environmental and labor issues would have been addressed by his administration.

[truedelphi]

37. That's not how I see it.

Some of us knew exactly what heartache NAFTA was going to bring about - and of course you have to wonder how it is that the average Joe and Jane understands these things. Yet the people whose careers are supposed to be about reading the small print cannot ever be bothered.

[MS Liberal]

31. All I got to say to Edwards is....

I am voting for Hillary!!!

[flpoljunkie]

33. A weak kneed response to Edwards from her corporate lackey pollster Mark Penn, former boss of Jeri

Thompson--"trophy wife" of Fred Thompson, according to an August 4th article in the Washington Post, entitled "The Rise of Jeri Thompson."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/04/AR2007080401483_pf.html

Despite the unglamorous nature of her first job in Washington, Jeri Thompson's supporters today describe her as a powerful political operative. Whether that label fits her roughly five years of full-time work here is hard to determine, given the relatively low profile she kept at her various jobs. An exception was a 1999 appearance on "The O'Reilly Factor" to criticize a skit that President Bill Clinton did the night before at the White House Correspondents' Association dinner. "I'm certain that I'm not the only American that was incredibly appalled at the fact that Bill Clinton is more credible as a clown than he is as a president," she told O'Reilly.

From the RNC, Kehn moved to the Senate Republican Conference, and from there to the public relations and lobbying firm Burson-Marsteller, where she worked full time from February 2001 to January 2002.

According to two people who have worked for Burson-Marsteller, one currently and another formerly, Kehn got the job at the behest of Kenneth Rietz, the head of the firm's Washington office at the time, as a favor to Rietz's friend Fred Thompson. (Rietz, now retired from the firm, is a Thompson campaign adviser.)

But Charlie Black, chairman of BKSH & Associates, a lobbying subsidiary of Burson parent WPP Group, disagrees. "We had to recruit hard to get her to come to Burson," said Black, an adviser to McCain's campaign.

[KaptBunnyPants]

36. Wow, Team Hill is getting really complacent.

No brief qualified defense of NAFTA, not even a mention of "the fastest growing economy in history" line they like so much. I guess they think they have this thing sewn up to offer so little in rebuttal. It reminds me of those bizarre commercials Lieberman was running with the stock footage of the beach and no political content.