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Where exactly did Obama call for an invasion of Pakistan?

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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 05:55 PM
Original message
Where exactly did Obama call for an invasion of Pakistan?
Edited on Wed Aug-01-07 06:10 PM by liberalpragmatist
I read http://www.barackobama.com/2007/08/01/the_war_we_need_to_win.php">Obama's big terrorism speech. The only mention of a possible military option regarding Pakistan was this:

I understand that President Musharraf has his own challenges. But let me make this clear. There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al Qaeda leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will.


I don't see how anyone reads this as anything other than a call for targeted strikes should their be clear intelligence indicating that Bin Laden is in the tribal regions of Pakistan.

Yet from the headings in the AP and from the apoplectic posts on DU and other corners of the blogosphere, you'd think he was calling for a full-on, 500,000-strong invasion of Pakistan.

Among other points in the speech, Obama implicitly accused Bush of ignoring warnings of an Al Qaeda attack...

Thanks to the 9/11 Commission, we know that six years ago this week President Bush received a briefing with the headline: "Bin Ladin determined to strike in U.S."

It came during what the Commission called the "summer of threat," when the "system was blinking red" about an impending attack. But despite the briefing, many felt the danger was overseas, a threat to embassies and military installations. The extremism, the resentment, the terrorist training camps, and the killers were in the dark corners of the world, far away from the American homeland.


... and explicitly repudiated the Bush Doctrine of "preventive war" and the war in Iraq...

We did not finish the job against al Qaeda in Afghanistan. We did not develop new capabilities to defeat a new enemy, or launch a comprehensive strategy to dry up the terrorists' base of support. We did not reaffirm our basic values, or secure our homeland.

Instead, we got a color-coded politics of fear. Patriotism as the possession of one political party. The diplomacy of refusing to talk to other countries. A rigid 20th century ideology that insisted that the 21st century's stateless terrorism could be defeated through the invasion and occupation of a state. A deliberate strategy to misrepresent 9/11 to sell a war against a country that had nothing to do with 9/11.

And so, a little more than a year after that bright September day, I was in the streets of Chicago again, this time speaking at a rally in opposition to war in Iraq. I did not oppose all wars, I said. I was a strong supporter of the war in Afghanistan. But I said I could not support "a dumb war, a rash war" in Iraq. I worried about a " U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences" in the heart of the Muslim world. I pleaded that we "finish the fight with bin Ladin and al Qaeda."

The political winds were blowing in a different direction. The President was determined to go to war. There was just one obstacle: the U.S. Congress. Nine days after I spoke, that obstacle was removed. Congress rubber-stamped the rush to war, giving the President the broad and open-ended authority he uses to this day. With that vote, Congress became co-author of a catastrophic war. And we went off to fight on the wrong battlefield, with no appreciation of how many enemies we would create, and no plan for how to get out.

Because of a war in Iraq that should never have been authorized and should never have been waged, we are now less safe than we were before 9/11.


Military options were largely discussed in the context of Afghanistan and were strictly limited in scope. The thrust of the speech was an emphasis on diplomacy, international cooperation, withdrawal from Iraq, increased aid to vulnerable countries in the Muslim world and, yes, a tougher - but hardly militaristic - approach to Pakistan.

How this is being spun as a militaristic speech is somewhat baffling.
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nowhere.
Edited on Wed Aug-01-07 05:58 PM by Connie_Corleone
It's just the "DU overreaction brigade" howler of the week.

It'll be Hillary Clinton's turn next week.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. He doesn't. People are distorting for political gain. nt
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. I read speech, too.
Gar!



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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. He didn't. Desperate supporters of other candidates and the RW are
going to distort what he says, no matter what he says.
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JANdad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. It has nothing to do with the scope of the Op
But haven't we had enough of hard talking, dick swinging alpa males in the white house yet?

This is EXACTLY why HRC called him NAIVE on fereign realations...b/c he is!
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. tak about posturing.....there was none of what you talks about anywhere in the speech.
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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Firstly, I like Edwards
And I'm undecided between he and Obama (and even flirting with voting for Hillary), so I'm hardly an Obama-partisan.

But if you read the speech, it in no way comes across as a belligerent speech. The overwhelming bulk of the address concerns diplomacy, removal of troops from Iraq, and negotiating with Iran. He does embrace sending a few more combat brigades to Afghanistan, but emphasizes that the solution there isn't military and that there must be greater economic aid and support for a political reconciliation in Afghanistan. Regarding Pakistan, he expressly calls for economic aid, for encouraging Musharraf to hold free and fair elections and give up power, and making continued support to Pakistan contingent on them making a genuine effort to root out extremists in the tribal areas.

Keep in mind that Musharraf initiated a disastrous truce with militant Taliban forces in the lawless border regions, who have set up a virtual state within a state, the Islamic Emirate of Waziristan; the Bush administration made no hay out of the situation, despite the fact that what remains of Al Qaeda's Afghanistan operations have relocated to the region. I don't know any future Democratic president, including John Edwards, who would be as conciliatory to Musharraf as Bush has been; quite frankly, I doubt most of the Republicans would be as conciliatory as Bush has been.

HAD Obama called for an actual invasion of Pakistan, I'd be right here bashing him for the idea as well - it would be beyond disastrous - but he never called for that and it's a gross distortion to claim otherwise.

Overall, claiming this was a militaristic speech is missing the forest for the trees.
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Then you better talk to Edwards. Uh Oh!! LOL
"NBC's Lauren Appelbaum reports that Edwards, on the other hand, agreed with Obama, though admitted he didn't watch the speech or see a transcript.

"My belief is that we have a responsibility to find bin Laden and al Qaeda wherever they operate," Edwards said on camera. "I think we need to maximize pressure on Musharraf and the Pakistani government. If they can't do the job, then we have to do it."

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/08/01/300839.aspx
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Hillary calling anyone naive is funny
She voted for the war against Iraq. That says enough about her, Biden's, Edwards', and Dodd's foresight with regards to foreign policy.

It's obvious that they are naive, considering they still think Musharraf is actually doing something to stop Al Qaeda.


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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. I have analysed the speech
and found it contained the letters to spell "ass".

OBAMA SAID "ASS"!
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. ...and "turd..."
In ending the war, we must act with more wisdom than we started it. That is why my plan would maintain sufficient forces in the region to target al Qaeda within Iraq. But we must recognize that al Qaeda is not the primary source of violence in Iraq, and has little support -- not from Shia and Kurds who al Qaeda has targeted, or Sunni tribes hostile to foreigners. On the contrary, al Qaeda's appeal within Iraq is enhanced by our troop presence.





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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. That settles it
I'm voting for Ralph Nader!
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Buck Rabbit Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. And more to the point Mussuraf will cooperate when given no choice.
He buckled last time to you're with us or "be bombed back into the stone ages". He calculated his odds of surviving a fight with the US, shit his pants, and threw his Taliban allies under a bus.

If we had a US President who actually was interested in Bin Laden being found, Mussuraf could probably find him for us.
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Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. He did not say he would attack. He said Pressure them
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
12. So many are just being reactionary because they like being mad all the time.
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Nimrod2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
14. He didn't, I heard FUCKER spin it that way earlier....He did NOT!
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
15. He didn't
The criticism is disingenuous.

He is the first candidate to announce a policy shift towards Pakistan - a country which has sponsored terrorism and got rewarded for it.

Why is everyone held hostage to this myth that Musharraf is a moderate? He's playing the West for a bunch of fools taking billions in military aid, while doing nothing to stop Al Qaeda.




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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
18. Here's the part where he announced it...
"Let me make this clear," Obama said in a speech prepared for delivery at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. "There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al-Qaida leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070801/ap_on_el_pr/obama_terrorism_7

That's an announcement that he will enter another country with U.S. troops, with or without the permission of that government. That's invasion, and worse still, it's an announcement a year and a half before he could act on it as president. Talk about giving your enemies a "heads-up!"
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Did he say without conferring first?
He didn't say that he wouldn't inform Pakistan, to begin with.

And are you sure you want another Dem candidate stuck with "won't act without a permission slip"???
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. INFORM Pakistan???????
He said he would enter that country with U.S. troops with or without permission. That's an act of war.

The only informing that needs to happen, is for someone to give Obama a clue.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
19. When Fox and Nedra Pickler pretended he did
and nearly set off an international incident to trash a Democrat - and, well, you know the rest.

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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
21. ...In the imaginary worlds of Obama's critics...
:shrug:
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