Has anyone in the Obama campaign been fired for the allegedly unauthorized smear?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

Tellurian made a great point: "He claims he didn't authorize the smear...So, has anyone on his staff been fired yet?"

Was the smear actually authorized by the campaign or is BO like a certain other individual and doesn't fire his aides even if they make huge mistakes? I vote for the former.

[SoxFan]

1. You're a real champ

Did your candidate, John Edwards, fire the anti-Catholic bigots who worked for his campaign? Oh, that's right, he waffled and danced around it until they resigned on their own.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

4. Here is the simple difference

In one case the smear was made by campaign workers in a campaign memo, that allegedly was unauthorized (usually, when someone does something unauthorized that damages the boss they pay the price...). In the other case bloggers had made bigoted comments before they began working for the Edwards campaign. In other words, the latter had nothing to do with the Edwards campaign. Thankfully, once it was brought to light they paid the price.

[NYCGirl]

2. You mean unlike the guy who fired his bloggers at the request of right wing

nutjob William Donahue?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

6. Bigotry is bigotry, whether right-wingers call people on it or the HRC campaign calls someone on it

Bigotry is no more valid simply based on who is critical of it.

[NYCGirl]

10. Caving to Donahue — would this be SOP in an Edwards administration? NT

[draft_mario_cuomo]

Bigotry is bigotry. I know BO supporters disagree

We are the party of equal opportunity, the big tent party. We should always be against bigotry. We should not, say, resort to race-baiting in order to smear an opponent like a certain campaign...

[NYCGirl]

15. Caving to the religious right — a tradition for the GOP and now with the

faux-progressive!

[draft_mario_cuomo]

20. You mean like changing your vote on abortion to win religious votes?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3328663&mesg_id=3328663

[NYCGirl]

28. And what was the wording of that bill? NT

[draft_mario_cuomo]

32. That is irrelevant

Apparently you didn't bother to click on the link because it may contain information that contradicts the mythology...

==Obama The Triangulator

In the Statehouse, Obama promoted himself as a defender of abortion rights, but he encouraged fellow Democrats to vote "present" on abortion bills. Friends say the strategy was designed to protect lawmakers, including Obama, with designs on higher offices.

Still, he once voted against requiring medical care for aborted fetuses who survive.==

[NYCGirl]

34. No, it isn't. The wording of the bill has everything to do with it. If you disagree,

ask "I voted for it before I voted against it" John Kerry.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

35. Read post 32. He changed his vote--and told others to do so--for political reasons

It had nothing to do with the bill but everything to do with political calculation. You know, exactly what BO supporters like to accuse HRC of...

[NYCGirl]

36. So what was the wording of the bill? Put your money where your mouth is. NT

[draft_mario_cuomo]

37. The wording was that polls told him that voting his conscience would hurt him and his pals

So he decided to change his vote for political gain. Hey, it worked, didn't it?

[NYCGirl]

38. So you have nothing (except for that politically expedient IWR vote).

Oh excuse me, I forgot. That CO-SPONSORED IWR.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

40. What does that have to do with the fact BO changed his vote for political gain on abortion?

So you, as every BO supporter in that thread, do not dispute that BO changed his vote--and encouraged others to do the same--on abortion based on polls and political calculation?

[NYCGirl]

41. And I'm saying that unless you can tell the exact wording of that bill

you have no case.

Edited to add the phrase "the exact wording"

[draft_mario_cuomo]

42. There is no case. It is clear-cut

Obama changed his vote. Why? For political reasons. Even his friends acknowledge that he advised them to do the same. This isn't rocket science.

[NYCGirl]

43. Sorry if I don't take your word as an unimpeachable source. NT

[draft_mario_cuomo]

46. I did not write the article, nor am I a friend of BO who was cited in the article

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

22. Neither were some others who used bigotry to further their political careers nt

[Adelante]

3. Did John Edwards fire his staff in 2004

Over the "Black Book" of oppo research? The one he claimed he didn't authorize? N.O.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

5. I don't know. I didn't support Edwards in 2004

Are you referring to Hugh Shelton expressing an opinion of a former colleague?

[Kingstree]

16. Did he?

[Adelante]

19. I am not

It was a 50-page book of negative talking points to be used during the Iowa caucuses against the other candidates (except Kucinich with whom Edwards struck a deal).

They all do it. This is part of the game. So don't be so quick to point fingers is what I'm telling you.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

21. The difference is only one claims to be above such things nt

[Adelante]

23. And so did the other

claim to be above such things.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

27. I wasn't aware of those 2003-2004 comments

I didn't support him then and didn't follow the election as closely as I am now.

So the standard seems to be a candidate doing the same thing in 2003 or 2004 justifies a candidate doing the same in 2007? Ok. Will BO continue to speak of a "new politics", etc.? This is the irony of the BO supporter response to such things. On the one hand, they like Obama partly because he markets himself as a "new kind of politician" who practices a "new politics" (unlike "old kind of politicians" who practice an "old politics"). Then, when Obama's campaign engages in the tactics they like him for denouncing, they simply brush it off as being something everyone else does...

[illinoisprogressive]

7. I think that would be private and not for smear mongers like you

[draft_mario_cuomo]

9. Surely it would be publicized since it would provide evidence his "new politics"

If he fired them this would be all over the press as evidence of Obama truly running a different type of campaign. Instead, BO either feels their opposition research skills are too good to lose or is loyal to them.

It is ironic to see an Obama supporter call a mere message board poster a "smear monger" when her own candidate's campaign engaged in smear mongering that matters (campaign smears hit the press, DU posts, not exactly.)...

[MADem]

8. What smear?

Not everyone pays close attention to campaign news.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

13. This is a good thread on it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3318701

[MADem]

45. Ewwwww. That's the second time someone from his campaign has pulled some stupid bullshit.

There was that campaign worker who did the APPLE ad about Hillary, too, now that was pretty stupid and shitty. That guy then either was outed or outed himself, and quit or was fired. Details escape me on that one, though.

I think Obama is trying hard to distinguish himself and pull away from the pack, but this is not the way to do it. His "helpers" aren't helping him. He seems to be getting some pisspoor advice. His management team is either stupid, letting campaign workers go off the reservation like this, or they're doing it deliberately to try to create some combative "buzz"--all I can tell you is that I find it reprehensible, so it didn't work on me.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. This is the SECOND time his team has pulled the "Ooooooh, we didn't KNOW" card. It's gonna get old, quick.

You don't win by trashing your opponent--that may work on the GOP side, but not on the Democratic side--it comes off as "un-progressive" frankly. Didn't Obama say he wanted to raise the level of discourse, not do the "politics as usual" stuff? This kind of thing IS politics of usual--it's right out of the Rove playbook. Now, if he didn't know about it, he really should have--that's evidence of a disorganized campaign, frankly.

He needs a campaign manager who will vet EVERYTHING and lay down the law to the front line workers, who will then lay down the law to their cadres--no bullshit, no dirty tricks. Someone seasoned, who can take a long view. One fuckup is one thing, but this is the SECOND time that I recall where there's been a campaign worker who got a bit too 'enthusiastic'...ya gotta ask yourself, are they just shitty, disorganized, clueless managers who don't have control over their workforce, or are they doing this on purpose?

I like a lot of what Obama says, but these kind of tactics leave me stone-cold. They're vote-supressers, and that's not good for him--he needs to GOTV like crazy at about 20 percent higher than he thinks he needs if he wants his numbers to work. It just smells too much like the shit Rove pulled to get BushCo selected, and I abhor that kind of stuff. He needs to do some serious housecleaning and rearranging, I think. This is a small harbinger, but it suggests that his people do not have their shit together.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

47. Good post, thanks for the reminder about the Apple ad!

I forgot about the Apple ad. We could believe the story once, but twice?

[MADem]

52. I am still an undecided voter, hoping that Gore gets in. I tend to pay attention to what the

candidates say, less to what their campaigns do. I like the entire field of D candidates pretty much, I wouldn't have trouble voting for most of them in the General Election. I haven't picked a primary favorite, though, because I am still holding out for my pal Al...!

Obama has a lot of good words, good ideas, and of course he has the youth and vigor thing down. I enjoy watching him and hearing him. I certainly wouldn't slit my throat if he got the nom; I'd campaign for him in the General, and do my local GOTV thing that I do for our team.

But this kind of shit isn't helping him. It's really demotivating me, to be honest. It smells to me like he has some real bullies on his campaign team, and that doesn't go over well with me.

He'd better shape his campaign up; if this happens much more, he's going to get a bad reputation and be regarded as a Nudge, Nudge, Wink, Wink Bush-Style bullshitter. People are sick of the Atwater-Rove Attack Dog School of Politics. They just don't like it, it suggests that the candidate is out of ideas and running scared, and that's what this kind of thing feels like to me. It's unsporting, certainly, and it makes him look like a liar who really doesn't want to uplift the discourse and dispense with 'politics as usual' and so forth.

Moreover, and most importantly, really, it's INCOMPETENT--you'd think after the first bit of blowback from the APPLE fiasco, they'd learn to, forgive the expression, "offshore" or "outsource" their smearing...instead, they churn it out AGAIN from In-House.

Not too swift. Makes them look mean AND dumb.

[illinoisprogressive]

11. Has Edwards explained why he still voted yes when he was on the intellegence committee

[draft_mario_cuomo]

12. Nice red herring. Post another thread if you are interested in the answer nt

[Kingstree]

14. draft_mario_cuomo You are not winning any votes for Edwards

and you will not cause anyone not to vote for Obama by these tactics. Get over it and move on. You are really a waste.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

24. deleted nt

[draft_mario_cuomo]

25. Thanks for the condescension and arrogance

Off to the ignore list you go.

HRC supporters accept, respond, and in their minds debunk, criticism of their candidate and have 2% the arrogance of BO supporters...

[madrchsod]

18. "allegedly unauthorized smear?"

[endarkenment]

26. How to get me to consider your candidate:

post good information on his or her policy positions so I can make an informed decision in the primaries.

How to get me to not consider your candidate: post endless negative crap about other candidates while I figure out who you are backing, and then I will count your actions against your candidate.

Keep up the good work. All of you.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

29. Notice how the sanctimonius wing of BO supporters were silent on this anti-HRC "smear" thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3329016

Like their candidate, they have one standard for themselves and one for everyone else...

[rocktivity]

30. Hasn't Bush set the limit at a few hundred

and raised it to a few thousand recently? (Gets off shiftless lazy ass and does her own research): Yep.

:headbang:
rockantion

[nevergiveup]

31. Your uncontrollable perseveration on this

matter is becoming a little disturbing. I am beginning to worry about you.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

33. More arrogance and condescenion from the Obama camp

:boring:

[Forkboy]

50. I agree with nevergiveup...and I don't like Obama or Hillary.

But I do like Edwards,and think your shit is lame and no help at all to him. :shrug:

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

39. Paging sanctimonous BO supporters who pretend they oppose "smears"

Your great moral compass is required in this anti-HRC thread by a BO supporter. Surely you guys will race there to denounce the "vicious smear"...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3329669

[endarkenment]

44. Yo: replying to your own post is either a blunder or bad form.

We've all done it by accident, but as a way to kick it up it is beneath contempt.

[ripple]

48. It would be unprofessional to disclose

personnel decisions to the general public.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

49. The creator of the anti-HRC 1984 ad (who worked for a firm hired by BO) was fired

And it made the news!

==De Vellis said he resigned from the firm; Thomas Gensemer, managing director of Blue State Digital said he was terminated.==

http://www.suntimes.com/news/308278,CST-NWS-sweetnews22.article

[ripple]

53. He wasn't a campaign staffer,

he worked for an internet advertising firm and Obama didn't fire him.

[Capn Sunshine]

54. draconian , isn't it?

No second chances , no nothin'. Just fired?
For bringing attention to another candidates failings? Without authorization

I'm putting them up for promotion to full time
So eat me