Ok, DU. Let's strategize a bit for September.

[leftupnorth]

No matter how you feel about the vote last week (I'm still sick about it, FYI) the damage has been done. In the interest of saving the party from itself, let's discuss some strategy.

Let's assume for a minute that nothing changes in September. The people still want us out of Iraq, Bush is as resolute as ever, and the GOP is still marching lockstep. What do we do? How do we handle it? Here are my suggestions of how we should handle it.

1. By all means do NOT come out and say at the beginning that "we will fund the troops no matter what." You buy the White House propaganda when you do that.

2. Our leadership should come out and say: "The people want a time line for a withdrawal from Iraq, and we intend to give it to them. The president and the Republican members of Congress have a choice: a bill that has a binding timetable for withdrawal that is negotiated and agreed to by all sides, or no funding bill and the timetable is when the money runs out. Those are their choices."

3. Hammer home the fact that supporting the troops is not the same as supporting Bush's bad policy. Supporting the troops means doing what is right by them to effect an honorable withdrawal from Iraq. If the president and his commanders on the ground wish to keep the troops in harm's way AFTER the money runs out, they are murdering, megalomaniacal, callous sons of bitches. The people will NOT blame the decisions of the commander in chief on the Democratic Congress.

[Le Taz Hot]

1. I agree on every account.

The problem is, the powder-dry Democrats will do EXACTLY the same thing they just did -- keep funding unending war. They don't care what we think -- we're not the ones with the unlimited $$$ to whom they listen.

[leftupnorth]

2. I hope your wrong. But my greatest fear is that you are right.

We can't let them capitulate again.

[blueworld]

3. And demand specifics for success, which enables a planned withdrawal

How about some benchmarks that determine success? I'm tired of hearing the repetitive drone about "sustain itself, govern itself". What the blue hell does that mean specifically? Randi Rhodes offered her suggestions this morning on CSPAN, and I don't believe I've ever heard them discussed by Congress or the State Department or Pentagon: local elections & local militia. Provinces with governors?

* the neocons simply won't accept what the Iraqis want for themselves unless it matches their own ideology, and I'm still waiting to hear anything concrete that will assist the assess in assessing whether we're winning or Iraq is sustaining. Over 4 years into this hell & they still can't define success or a plan, just keep the money flowing. :grr:

[welshTerrier2]

4. do NOT wait until September

if they give a damn what we think, and that remains to be seen, they need to hear from us now. we've made lots of noise about how angry we are with their sellout on the last Iraq funding bill but that is not nearly enough. we have to "give them our terms" and we have to do it NOW. we shouldn't expect everything to be implemented immediately but we should demand that they start talking about it NOW.

if the Democratic Party wants to earn back my support, here are MY terms:

1. The Democratic Party needs to clearly let the American people, the republicans and bush know, in no uncertain terms, that there will be ZERO additional funds EVER to continue offensive operations in Iraq. Z-E-R-O ... got that ... the only funds that will be available after September will be for full, i.e. 100% withdrawal of every single troop including those Blackwater mercenaries. We will not be leaving troops behind to guard pipelines and fields for private oil companies.
2. There will be no Oil Law. Not a single penny will be allowed to be earned by any non-Iraqi entity be it private or public. Iraqi oil should be for the sole benefit of the Iraqi people.
3. The Democrats will launch a REAL INVESTIGATION into the manufactured lies that led up to the invasion of Iraq.
4. The Democratic Party will do everything it possibly can to eliminate corporate money completely from the campaign process (i.e. publically financed campaigns) and from the lobbying process. Disclosure is not a solution. It's time to restore our democracy.
5. Serious investigations should be launched into vote caging in all elections since and including 2000. If bush and cheney had knowledge of these crimes, they should be executed, impeached and then deported in that order. Treason is punishable by hanging.

[Dhalgren]

5. Here's the problem that must first be dealt with.

What are the goals of the Congressional Democratic Leadership? What do they want and how are they going about to attain it?
We all just assume that the Democrats "caved" to Bush, but did they? What would they like to see happen in Iraq and what do they want our involvement to be?
I have been told over and over, here on this board, that the Democrats were acting with purpose and were going by a plan that we would understand at some point in time. The problem is that we don't know what the goals and plans are.

First we need to know what the Democratic Party's stated, upfront policy is on Iraq and US involvement in that country. Then we can talk about strategy.

[MadHound]

7. That's the problem, what the people want, what the people elected the Dems to do

Is not what the Dems actually want to do. They want to keep their corporate masters happy, who wish to keep this war going and profits rolling in.

We've seen time and again how the Dems are perfectly will to throw the wishes of the people over the side. What makes people think it will be any different come September?

[Dhalgren]

8. That's why we need to force the Democratic Party to publicly state

what the Party's policy is regarding Iraq and the ongoing occupation. They have to make a public stand, as a Party, before I will consider the Democratic Party again.

[MadHound]

10. Oh I hear you, agree with you , and sadly have to say that the party has made that statement

And it was a big FU, not only to the anti-war movement, but also to all of their constituents who elected them to a majority with one over riding mandate, end the war.

About the only Dem I'm willing to vote for right now is Dennis. He's been out in front, on the right side of the issues for years now.

[Dhalgren]

11. That's true. I will support Dennis - regardless of his Party...

[yurbud]

12. a lot of the time, it sounds like Kerry's plan to deal with voter intimidation & rigging

"leave that to me," he says. "we have an army of lawyers watching polling places."

They did. And the Bushies did their usual challenges of voters and hide the voting machine and electronic voting machine switches, and even got the exit polls flipped at 1 am.

And Kerry did nothing but concede.

That seems to be how their plan to end the war works--get all their ducks in a row and wait quietly for the GOP to shoot them one by one.

[yurbud]

13. the stated policy is not the real policy anymore than Bush's is.

It's about giving those oil reserves to American oil companies.

Until they acknowledge that, I'm not sure how serious they are about ending the war.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

6. Repugs won't support dumbya if troop casualties

are still this high in Sept. They'll bail in droves. That will give cover to Dems who can then vote for defunding the war. (I hope.)

[Hippo_Tron]

9. Fund the war one week at a time...

Force Bush to come in every week and grovel for a supplemental appropriations bill. In fact, I think that the negotiations should take place between Bush and Nancy Pelosi alone and they should be televised. Bush will have to explain to the American People how most of that money is going into Halliburton's pockets.