The thing I find most amusing about the Hillary "Pumpers"

[Learn2Swim]

here on this site.

Now, I'm not talking about all of Hillary's supporters, I'm talking to the pumpers.

They are the ones that think, that if they can just maintain any kind of lead in the primaries, let the 'machine' do its job, strong-arm a few people along the way, and just get by, that everything will be fine.

They are quick to judge any and all polls, and any info that said poll finds, unless of course, it is beneficial to their candidate. Well here's the deal, there are millions, I repeat MILLIONS of $$$ of research going on as of right now, and there are analysts working around the clock to compute and translate said found data. Polls aren't everything. Correct. But they ARE an excellent from of research.

Here is the mind-blowingly hilarious part of it all. Some posters post the same nonsense lines often times, "Hillary is the strongest and best candidate to beat the GOP in the general". We all know that poll data from several sources are showing that to be the exact opposite of truth. (Some of us have been stating the obvious tho for some time now) They don't realize that we already know what the biggest issue in the upcoming primary election will be: ELECTABILITY. Certainly everyone hasn't already forgotten about this?

How someone can look at the world through a set of working eyes, and think that this will not bring her down all its own, is unimaginable to me. It blows me away. To think of everything that went down last time, and what happened to Dean, and to think HRC is just going to get a free pass? Bwahahaha!!

This is, and will be, the most scrutinized election in history. Every scenario studied, every angle covered, and covered again.

The Dems have been knocked out of power (wrongfully I might add) for far too long to chance anything at this point. If you think the Dems wanted power in '04, you aint seen nothing yet. The tide is going to turn on Hillary. Once the Dems at the national level start acknowledging this, and the pundits catch wind of it, it will begin. Everyone will then begin forming their 'plan of action' to deal with the situation. Now I know it's still early, but what I want to predict is that we will start hearing the howls (and I mean HOWLS) of HRC's complete and total lack of general electability, probably sometime around mid-summer.

We democrats finally have something working in our favor, that ALMOST nothing could cancel out. That is the shrub presidency, and it's full results. I mean look at this place. 6 years, and the world is almost a fucking disaster. The current state of not only our country, but the world, due to this presidency, all but ensures a Dem victory. There is but one great equalizer. Hillary.

I truly feel that the only way the general public even thinks about taking a chance on another 8 years of GOP control at this point is if we elect Hillary. She is a sure-fire loser, in a time of near unheard of corruption at all levels in GOP leadership, even for them. But they do have one 'Ace in the Hole' so to speak, one last chance for continued victory. Their secret weapon. Queen Hillary.

We nominate ANYONE but Hillary, and current state of events, trends, and public opinion alone make chop-suey of anyone the other side tries to put up. We put up Hillary, we learn another lesson the hard way, and we have NO ONE to blame but ourselves. PERIOD. It's all out there for everyone to see. If we blindly walk into this haymaker, it will take the party years to recover. Luckily, I can say with a good deal of positivity, that will not happen.

My prediction is this: Hillary's 'unelectability' sinks her campaign quicker than it sunk Dean's.
Am I the only one that sees this? Am I the only one that makes this connection? Surely not.

[mnhtnbb]

1. Electability didn't exactly work for Kerry, did it? There will be a huge

discounting of 'electability' as a predictor, IMHO.

[Learn2Swim]

5. that all depends on who you believe...

now doesn't it? ;)

Electability will ALWAYS be a HUGE factor, especially when gearing up for a GE as important as the one for CIC. Don't kid yourself.

[mnhtnbb]

12. I do happen to believe that without all the Ohio shenanigans, Kerry

would have won--so, yes, that technically would have made him deliver on his
'electability'. However, he should have had a 5% margin--at least--and it was defeated by deliberate attempts of the Repubs to subvert the vote in this country. I fully expect to see more of the same in 08. What price have they paid? Yes, they lost the House and Senate, but I think that just tells them they need to fix the vote by a wider margin. You still won't get more than a handful of elected Dems to acknowledge that we have a serious voting reliability issue--countrywide.

I think that instead of focusing on 'electability', Dems need to focus
on defining the critical issues and hammering them 24/7, and 'electability' will take care of itself. I don't believe
Hillary has the right stand on several of those issues, which makes her less 'electable' without even taking her less than endearing personality into consideration.

[Learn2Swim]

14. I agree he should have had a 5%

margin as well. But '08 won't feature Karl Rove nor will the GOP find solace in the "marriage = man + woman" BS to get out the vote like they relied on the last time around.

And like you said, it still shouldn't have worked. But, some people are sheep. :thumbsup:

[bilgewaterbill]

45. And yet you think Obama can beat Hillary???

[Ethelk2044]

47. Yes

He can get some repugs votes. Some have already stated they will vote for him. Clinton is going to have a hard time with Dems along. Some Dems will just not vote for her no matter what.

[Clark2008]

50. I don't see any of the front-runners flipping any red or purple states.

None of them attract the swing-Bubbas.

But, that's just me.

[flpoljunkie]

19. You cannot make the case that electability did not play a big part in his becoming our nominee.

[skipos]

21. Who thought he was the most electable?

Not anyone I know. Did the polls show him being solidly more electable than everyone else in 04? I never saw any, but I wasn't exactly looking then either.

[AshevilleGuy]

31. Did the Dem machine care? Do they ever?

Their agenda is unknown, and presumably over our poor little heads. They chose their nominee for Other Reasons...

[Vulture]

27. Kerry was not exactly the epitome of "electable"

There were many things that gave him less than stellar electability; another candidate in his position should have been able to pull more votes. In my humble opinion, Kerry's biggest problem is that he strongly reeked of New England blue blood in his mannerisms and demeanor. Which is not a crime in and of itself but in some parts of the US that has negative connotations; in many parts of the US that was a political affection because he was perceived as a rude person by local behavioral standards.

Most good politicians have the same region-neutral American mannerisms that TV personalities typically have, making them unlikely to be vaguely offensive to any particular regional culture. Clinton and Reagan are good examples of this in recent memory, as is Hillary actually. For whatever reason, Kerry never learned to control this during the campaign (or ever) and it hurt him in a lot of borderline states. Of course, Bush has a similar problem, but I do not think it hurt him as much.

The US is a big country with a diverse set of regional cultures and a presidential candidate does not need the baggage of being vaguely offensive in a couple regions independent of their message. Incidentally, this is one of the reasons actors do as well as they do in politics, since developing those kinds of pleasant region-neutral mannerisms are essential for the American media market. I guarantee you Fred Thompson will buy a few percentage points on that basis alone were he to run.


Edwards is a little borderline in that regard, IMHO, but he has plenty of time to polish it up.

[MannyGoldstein]

2. You Are A Republican Who Hates Powerful Women

Isn't it obvious?

:sarcasm:

Seriously, though, I get the distinct feeling that some of the local hillshills are on a payroll. They seem to be putting forth a reasonably sophisticated message, but fold in an instant when hit with the specifics of her record - it's like they've been coached on a message, but not with enough detail to hold ground if someone fights back.

Not all of 'em are like this - one just actually threw up a good defense of Mrs. Clinton, that I now need to go research to see if it's correlated with reality.

I wish that DU had a policy that anyone putting forth a candidate or position that they are being paid for, disclose this information on each posting.

[ChiciB1]

3. For Me... I Prefer EDWARDS/OBAMA....

Edwards just may be the one when all is said and done, and I most certainly think it would be good for him to pick Obama as VP. That way it will give Obama more stature.

Of course, its very very early and anything could happen. But I do agree that HILLARY will be on the HOT SEAT all the way through. One significant point came out just yesterday in the news.... Bill still hasn't changed and I'm sure Repukes "just can't wait" to PILE ON!

But I've said this from the "get go" at least a year and half ago!

We shall see.

[mnhtnbb]

6. That's my ticket.

[Kolesar]

4. Well, that was a bit much

She is a sure-fire loser,
Their secret weapon.
Queen Hillary.

PERIOD. It's all out there for everyone to see.
If we blindly walk into this haymaker, it will take the party years to recover.

My prediction is this: Hillary's 'unelectability' sinks her campaign quicker than it sunk Dean's.

And don't you be dissin' my Howard

[Learn2Swim]

7. HEY NOW...

I like Howard. ;) :9

[Captain_Nemo]

8. Hillary is a feminist

From the AP on March 28, Senator Hillary Clinton has proclaimed herself a feminist. She is proud of her feminist background.

"If you look in the dictionary, the word feminist means someone who believes in equal rights for women in society, in the economy, the political process — generally believes in the equality of women. And I certainly believe in the equality of women," she said."


You wrote that she is unelectable. Where are your facts on this statement of yours?

I remember hearing Obama talk to people in Indiana or Iowa about his christianity. I heard him say things like "His truth" and "His word" in reference to some almighty invisible being in the sky. And the religious people expressed their approval of him.

I knew then that Senator Obama was clearly not talking to me.

Hillary can handle the economy, the deficit and this occupation in Iraq. She has a wealth of knowledge. She doesn not rely on His truth. She knows that to take our country to a place we need to be she has to do the work based on her esperience.

You write that HIllary's "pumpers" wil let the "machine" do the job. When Obama was in the midwest utilizing his male dominated religous language, that was "the machine" talking. Religion is part of "the machine."

Feminists don't let machines do anything for them. They think, analyze and act based on was is right for everyone.

Hillary has fought the machine and she has the track record to prove it.

Feminism is revolutionary.

Hillary Rodham Clinton 2008!

[Learn2Swim]

11. Hillary is the machine.

"You wrote that she is unelectable. Where are your facts on this statement of yours?"

Wow. Open your eyes.

[Captain_Nemo]

13. Facts

Give me the facts on her unelectability.

[Learn2Swim]

15. Find them yourself...

the interweb is at your fingertips.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Learn2Swim]

17. take a look at any of the General Election polls...

from any source in the past month. Better yet, go back out to the general section, and just have a look around. How bout it?

Or, you can go to Rasmussen, google it, yahoo it, however you like.

Here's an example: Clinton ratings on yahoo

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1604469,00.html?xid=site-cnn-partner

http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2007/02/21/poll_clinton_unfavorable_rating_up_at_home/

http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_5534004

"Nearly half of 1,007 voting-age adults questioned in a nationwide telephone survey - 48 percent - said they held an unfavorable opinion of the second-term senator from New York. Forty-eight percent of respondents said they had a favorable opinion of the former first lady, who is striving to become the first presidential spouse to win the presidency.

Clinton's high unfavorable rating has been matched or exceeded only four times in 70 nationwide Gallup surveys of voting- age adults that touched on the same issue since 1993."

I think that does a pretty good job of spelling it out. Need more? Those were just the first ones that came up.

[Captain_Nemo]

25. read todays' poll

And, here's the first one that poppoed up from today.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-02-13-2008-campaign-poll_x.htm

Poll shows Clinton, Giuliani pull ahead as campaigns kick off

WASHINGTON — New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani have widened leads over their rivals in recent weeks as they began to openly campaign for the Democratic and Republican presidential nominations, according to the USA TODAY/Gallup Poll.

The survey taken Friday through Sunday — nearly a year before the first presidential primaries are held — shows Clinton with a 19-percentage-point edge over Illinois Sen. Barack Obama among Democrats and Giuliani with a 16-point margin over Arizona Sen. John McCain among Republicans.

Your links:

The first link indicated that the GOP has a lead over the democrats right now.

The second link indicated that 48% of 1007 adults questioned had a favorable opinion of her

You're third link was from February 21 and was in New York State only.

My opinion from your posts is:
1. You want her to lose the primary so you're trying to sink her before the primary even happens. ie; if you tell enough people she CAN'T win then they won't vote for her effectively annhilating her campaign.
2. You want your religious "His truth" guy to win

[Captain_Nemo]

28. Correction, I meant

I cut and pasted the wrong poll. Here is the right one.

Released: March 26, 2007

Zogby: Giuliani, Clinton Hold Big Leads in National Tests

Edwards holds in third place among Dems; Fred Thompson could be a GOPer worth watching


Republican Rudy Giuliani and Democrat Hillary Clinton, both of New York state, continue to enjoy significant leads over rivals in national tests of likely primary voters, a new Zogby International telephone poll shows. Meanwhile, Giuliani’s edge among Republicans is now more than double that of his nearest rival.


Clinton holds a double–digit 32% to 22% lead over Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, with former senator John Edwards a distant third in a national test of Democratic likely voters. The survey was the first national poll to be fielded following Friday’s announcement by Edwards that he would continue his campaign despite a new cancer diagnosis facing his wife, Elizabeth. Twenty–four percent of Democrats said they were as yet undecided.

[Carolina]

18. She's not electable because people hate her

I'm not talking about those of us on this board who are Dems and don't prefer her. I'm talking about the hard core, profound, unmitigated (and unexplainable) hatred of her that those of us who live in red states see in even the most otherwise reasonable people among us. They will NEVER vote for her.

If she's the nominee, you'll see it because the MSM will unleash its Clinton attack dogs and dredge up everything about her (recall their depiction of her as the shrew who dissed the stay at home wife-mom who baked cookies). That was tame compared to what they dish out in '08. Then there's the Big Dog himself. They'll throw all his baggage -- real or manufactured -- at her. We'll have Whitewater and the Rose Law Firm Part Deux along with a parade of post-Monica bimbo accusations and heaven knows what else ...

Can you spell L-O-S-E-R. People vote for people they like, not people they loathe. Despite Hilary's money, machine and endorsements, support for her is lukewarm among Dems and nonexistent elsewhere.

edited for typos

[Captain_Nemo]

24. Then you've already

Then you've already sunk her, doomed her before its began.

Clearly, if we are having discussions as to whether a woman can become president in 2007 we do not have equality in our society. (And you think a candidate who speaks of "His truth" is going to help women's position in our society?

Let them unleash the attack dogs. What are they going to attack her on?

1. Whitewater - they couldn't convict they just wasted tax money.
2. Her husbands behavior? No one really cared when it happened.
3. Saying something about choosing not to be a stay at home mother that was taken by the MSM and used as fodder to attack her as an anti-housewife evil feminist. (Surely we can fight that one!)
4. Saying she's a feminist? Let's have the argument. Where would we be without feminism?

Nancy Pelosi is the first woman speaker. The first. The power of the mirror is huge. What a female president will do for the majority of Americans is only something we can imagine.

Let's not say "she can't win so she shouldn't be the nominee." That is defeatist.

Hillary Rodhan Clinton has the ability to solve the problems George W,. has gotten us into .
I am do not think Obama has the experience or the background to deal with the middle east or the deficit. After all, he didn't even want to pay his parking tickets to the city of Cambridge! And, he's a lawyer!

[laugle]

33. And don't forget she has "Bill"

Because we need 2 presidents to clean-up the Bushco mess!!!!

Hill and Bill the "Dynamic Duo"

[fooj]

46. Or to cover up the Bushco mess...

That's what Bill did with Iran/Contra and now he's been coronated "adopted son" by the BFEE. Isn't that special?

[laugle]

49. That story is getting too old.....

[AtomicKitten]

52. and as credible & edifying as "My Pet Goat"

... pass it on

[obamian]

41. Obama Made a Strong Argument for Using Religious Language

This is why, if we truly hope to speak to people where they're at - to communicate our hopes and values in a way that's relevant to their own - we cannot abandon the field of religious discourse.

Because when we ignore the debate about what it means to be a good Christian or Muslim or Jew; when we discuss religion only in the negative sense of where or how it should not be practiced, rather than in the positive sense of what it tells us about our obligations towards one another; when we shy away from religious venues and religious broadcasts because we assume that we will be unwelcome - others will fill the vacuum, those with the most insular views of faith, or those who cynically use religion to justify partisan ends.

In other words, if we don't reach out to evangelical Christians and other religious Americans and tell them what we stand for, Jerry Falwell's and Pat Robertson's will continue to hold sway.

Gay conservative author and blogger Andrew Sullivan called this speech, "the finest public speech on religion in public life in years."

http://obama.senate.gov/podcast/060628-call_to_renewal_keynote/index.html

"She doesn not rely on His truth."
Obama clearly relies on reason to make his decisions, and there is no evidence that he is a misogynist. Even if he did rely on His truth to make decisions (which he doesn't), then his truth decided to oppose the Iraq war. Whatever Hillary relies on told her to vote us into Iraq.

Hillary can proclaim herself whatever she wants to, but I doubt you can find any evidence that Obama will be different from her when comes to gender oriented policies. Both Obama and Hillary are feminists.

Hillary is more a divisive politician than Obama. Look at their campaigns: Hillary say she's in it to win it. Obama says that he is going to clean up the political discourse and build the political consensus necessary for positive change.

See this page: http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/group/LesbianFeministsforObama

For more:
http://www.draftobama.org/node/775
https://donate.barackobama.com/page/group/FeministsforObama

[Captain_Nemo]

43. I think the Republicans reached out to religious types in 1980

and we got Ronald Reagan. The dominant religions that candidates want to reach out to hold that men or maleness is dominant, thus "His truth." Obama can reach out all he wants to those people - he's not reaching out to me.
Male dominated religion holds women back.

Obama can talk all he wants about cleaning up political discourse - all the candidates say that. That is not news.
He had a great chance to clean up the discourse when David Geffen trashed the Clinton's (the same David Geffen that spent millions making sure the American public couldn't walk on the beach in front of his house -he lost.)
He had a chance to clean up the discourse when the 1984 video came out on youtube that likened Hillary (the feminist) to part of the "machine or big brother."

To me, male dominated religion is big brother. It doesn't have a place in politics.
I never said he was a misogynist - he has a great voting record. I don't know how he will handle the middle east. I have doubts. I take issue with people (like the one who started this thread) who claim Hillary is part of the machine when clearly she is a feminist.

Obama can talk about all he wants changing Washington. There is a big difference between talk and action. I don't think he has the experience to tackle the problems we have now. Maybe more time in congress would help him.

Also, I read Obama's speech on religion. He referred to his strongly pro-choice stance that offended an anti choice citizen) as "offensive language." HE had his staff remove the language from his website ( I believe). I like his pro-choice words. He shouldn't have backed down. Of course Andrew Sullivan would have liked it.

I find Obama's religious words like "His truth" to be offensive to women.

[Le Taz Hot]

57. Hillary is a feminist????

No, feminists don't base their whole entire careers on THEIR HUSBAND'S accomplishments. Feminist my ass.

Damn, talk about drinking the Kool Aid. There is not one iota worth of difference between Hillary fanatics and those who believe George W. Bush will do what's right for our country. None.

[AJH032]

9. "Hillary pumpers" on DU?

You speak as though they are some large, loud group. I wonder how many you can even name. They're a rare breed.

[Learn2Swim]

10. Oh I'd imagine

I could name 5 right off the top of my head. ;) But you already know who they are.


I never said they were a large group. But they spout enough BS, and do enough triangulation for many.

[wyldwolf]

20. Let's get to the meat of it

The real problem isn't Hillary "Pumpers." After all, there are less supporters of Hillary on DU than there are for Obama and Edwards.

The REAL issue is the left is scared shitless that another centrist Democrat will (and is currently) out-polling and out-fund raising their desired candidate(s). The result is twofold.

Denial: The left is in complete denial of Clinton's frontrunner status. They deny the polls are accurate. They deny Clinton has a large following among Democrats. And they simply cannot fathom that anyone could possibly hold an opinion contrary to theirs. This leads to...

Spin: To head off yet another defeat, the left is resorting to spinning the facts about Clinton. They claim she voted for the bankruptcy bill. She did not. They claim she backs a constitutional amendment on flag burning. She does not. They claim she has altered her stance on reproductive rights. She has not. They claim they are not one issue voters but after all the spin gets debunked one more time, they always fall back on "the war." Many ignore the fact Edwards not only voted for it, too, but sponsored the bill. The beef is Hillary won't kowtow, kiss their ass, and apologize.

They shrug off polls that are favorable to her but consider ones not favorable to be the gospel truth.

Laughably, the left spent much of the aftermath of the lost 2004 election saying they'd never fall into the "electability" trap again. But with Hillary, they now claim it is about "electability."

You want to know the reason Obama just can't seem to catch Hillary in the polls despite the "fact" the left claims to never have met anyone who supports her? Because the left is in their own little world and can't see the rank and file Democrats, while excited about Obama, are positively giddy at the prospect of another Clinton in the White House.

Hillary Clinton isn't my first choice. Posting poll results and news about her doesn't make one a "Hillary Pumper." But she is the likely nominee and the wailing and gnashing of teeth on DU if she wins... the denial... the charges of vote rigging and claims of "dirty tricks..." are going to be comical to watch.

[Learn2Swim]

22. I think 'the left'

is scared shitless of another Pub in the WH. I know I am.

[laugle]

35. Excellent analysis.....and also,

that she is a "warmonger" she has said "that Bush should end the war but if he doesn't, she will, if elected!"

I think she has made that clear!!

[Learn2Swim]

38. an interesting theory

for sure, but I don't know. I imagine if it were Richardson in Hillary's place, things would be a little different, no?

[Captain_Nemo]

54. Why

Why would there be gnashing of teeth if she wins? Why is Hillary - a democrat feminist-the enemy?

[Forkboy]

23. Not a cool thread.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Learn2Swim]

29. It's the about the only way I could Bucky...

when I posted this, I was sick of wading through the "Hillary is inevitable" crap from the last few days. Was starting to make my damn stomach turn.

My apologies.

[juno jones]

30. Had an interesting conversation in my shop today

An older customer dropped by to pick up something he had ordered. I live in a very progressive community, but the outer lying regions of this county are 'middle of the road' to 'red'. We had a good chat about politics (he doesn't have TV or a computer, so I was able to catch him up on some things like the current scandals... which was fun!...)and the conversation got around to Hillary. We discovered we had both had family and aquaintences who 'swung' to Clinton in the day but even then still referred to him as "Slick Willy" and they HATED Hillary. Just because, and for no reason. They still hate her 15 years later. They would probably either go with the repub or not vote at all if Hillary was a choice. NAFTA isn't playing well anymore in Peoria either. In our unofficial opinions...Time to roll up the DLC and get back to a more populist approach...

[AshevilleGuy]

32. I've heard similar to that before, myself.

They hate her, and dont know why. It doesn't matter why - that sort of thing is lethal in politics, becsaue the candidate really doesn't know how to fix it. I had an elderly relatve who just LOVED Bill, Al and Tipper, but when Hillary came on TV she would snort and immediately zap that channel.

Yet, Hillary will almost certainly be our nominee... :eyes:

[Vulture]

40. Yup

I know a number of ultra-liberal female Democrats of all people in the San Francisco area that are quite vocal about their distaste for Hillary, and they loved Bill. They have their reasons (some petty), but Hillary really does attract a lot of negativity even from liberal Democrats. Interestingly, the reasons never really seem to be about her being "too conservative". And then there are my moderate friends who really dislike the current administration, but many of which have made the assessment that Hillary is very obviously a brilliant sociopath who shouldn't be let near the presidency on that basis alone.

Hillary really is intelligent and competent, but a candidate that has not been so thoroughly defined in the public consciousness in the way she has might have a better chance in a general election.

[laugle]

34. It might be a good idea to point out why

you think Obama is "electable" if that's what you think is the most important!

I say experience is just as important if not more!

[Learn2Swim]

36. If you're after experience,

here's your guy. http://www.richardsonforpresident.com/page/s/learnmore?source=2000

[laugle]

37. I like Richardson alot! Great for VP!

But then again, we are back to the "electability" factor, I think Hillary has both and we must have a winner in 2008!

It's early.......keep an open mind!

[Learn2Swim]

39. You're right he would be

[Just-plain-Kathy]

42. The GOP hates Hillary like we hate Laura...no cross over votes there.

More than half of us will hold our nose while voting for her in the general elections. I wish she'd drop out of the race.

[LittleClarkie]

44. Everybody has their supporters

I am a Kerry supporter, running or not. Others support Hillary, Edwards, Obama etc. To each their own.

[Bluedogvoter]

48. What I find funny is...

The Hillary pumpers aren't going around badmouthing the other candidates while the other candidates supporters have no problem doing the same to Hillary.

By funny I mean hypocritical.

[Forkboy]

53. Funny you should mention that!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3190749#3190940

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3186265#3188827

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3185139#3185320

[Captain_Nemo]

55. Agreed

Hilary, the feminist, is a real evil meanine to a some democrats. Now why would that be?

[AtomicKitten]

51. Amusing?

DU is headed for a full-on upside-the-head comeuppance down the line when hubris meets reality.
If it plays out, that will be amusing.

[saltpoint]

56. There are probably a dozen or so people with any realistic shot at

becoming our next president.

Senator Clinton is one of them.

[tigereye]

58. locking

This is inflammatory.

Thank you.