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HardWorkingDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-09-06 01:42 PM
Original message
How to shut up freepers and rethugs when it comes to spying...
I've found out the way to shut these people and to show their hypocrisy is to simply ask, "would you be all right with all of this domestic spying if Hillary Clinton was president?!?!"

Get ready to listen to them stammer....(and get ready for the excuse of, "well, we can TRUST GWB."
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-09-06 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. excelent
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-09-06 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. Agreed
You can probably substitute any Democrat's name in that sentence. I have spoken with a fellow that was at one point a Republican committee man in my area. He is very social conservative, but really worried about the issues of domestic spying, electronic voting with no paper trail and the overspending of this gang. He muses that it's really hard to for him to see the Democrats as the party of fiscal responsibility, but it sure seems to be that way. We try to talk about areas where we agree and put the areas we don't onto the back burner. It's good to know that there are some people of good will paying attention.
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samsingh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-09-06 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. that's it exactly
eventually a Democratic President will get all these unconstitional powers, which can then be used against repugs.

watch the repugs squeal like the pigs they are.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-09-06 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. What if it were President Barney Frank?
Edited on Sun Jul-09-06 03:14 PM by IanDB1
And remind them that Barney Franks is not only gay, but he's also a Liberal... and also in favor of eliminating Presidential term limits.

American Family Association as Enemy Combatants...

Oh, we can dream, can't we?

Barney Frank for Unitary Executive in 2008!


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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-09-06 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. Anyone remember The Clipper Chip Initiative? Oh, the good ol' days!
Edited on Sun Jul-09-06 03:24 PM by IanDB1
What is the Clipper Chip Initiative?
11900 Metric Blvd J-181
Austin Texas 78758-3117
(512) 837-9345
[email protected]

The following was published in the June 1994 issue of HAL PC Journal. This is dated material. Some statements may not be up to date.

Encryption is a method of scrambling messages and files to keep them private. Governments and corporations have used encryption from time immemorial, but recently strong encryption has become available to individuals. Phil Zimmermann's freeware program Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) (available almost anywhere) provides a convenient way for individuals to encrypt and decrypt messages and files. Voice scramblers have existed for a long time, but in the past, analog scramblers were not cryptographically strong. That is, if a government or a corporation really wanted to overhear your scrambled speech, it could do so. Now, technology has advanced to the point that strong encryption of voice communications is becoming feasible at a price which will be affordable for the masses.

The Clipper Chip Initiative is the "Escrowed Encryption Standard" which has been proposed as a standard for encrypted voice communications by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). This as a standard for a hardware chip which was designed by the National Security Agency (NSA) for NIST. This design was probably done illegally because the Computer Security Act of 1987 explicitly gives NIST the responsibility for standards-making for the unclassified governmental and commercial sectors. In NSA internal documents, the chip was originally called the "trapdoor" chip.

The plan features "key escrow," an arrangement whereby the government keeps the keys to decrypt all the information encrypted by any of the chips and then promises not to use them without legal authorization.

<snip>

Why does the Clinton Administration support the Clipper Chip Initiative at the same time that the supposedly "right wing" Rush Limbaugh opposes it? Do not most ACLU members vote Democratic? Is it not supposed to be the "right-wingers" that want to limit our civil liberties? Is down up? Is up down? Are dogs and cats going to start living together? What can explain this astounding political reversal? It is possible to account for Rush's position. Rush has been forced to take an interest in First Amendment issues because of the proposed revival of the "Fairness Act" which has been viewed as covert way to flush Rush. Also, Rush is a Republican. The Democrats control both the Legislative and Executive branches of government. The Clipper Chip Initiative proposes to increase government power in a way that could be used against Republicans. Certainly, it would be more difficult for Rush to oppose the Clipper Chip if George Bush was still proposing it. It is more difficult to explain the position of the Clinton Administration. Al Gore likes to talk about the administration's proposals for the Information Superhighway, but he seems very uncomfortable when discussing the Clipper Chip. A standard whose sole raison d'etre is to enable the government to tap everyone's phones seems positively Nixonesqe. Politicians may pay lip-service to civil liberties when addressing the ACLU, but their own true agenda is their own personal power and advancement. As government continues to demand more and more control over people's lives, more draconian methods must be used to meet resistance. The Democratic Party's nominal support for civil liberties may be only "boob bait for the Bubbas" in the inspiring words of Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

More:
http://www.io.com/~pelliott/pme/clipper.html

It's okay when Republicans do it, right?

Al Gore was going to use a backdoor to strong encryption to attack the Republicans! OMG! No war for Monica! Wag the dog!

Oh, the whole Clipper Chip thing seems so naive, so quaint, so petty right now, doesn't it?


And from the right-wing nutjobs at Newsmax:

Return of the Privacy Snatchers

Charles R. Smith
Thursday, Nov. 27, 2003

<snip>

It is no surprise that Al Gore recently accused the Bush White House of violating our national privacy with the Patriot Act. While the effect of the Patriot Act upon American privacy is debatable, the former vice president should be able to recognize a violation of privacy from miles away. Gore once championed a secret effort to bug every phone in the United States.

However, like every good secret plan, it just isn't a secret until it is leaked to someone. Al Gore's "Clipper" chip plan was eventually leaked to the press, resulting in widespread outrage from privacy advocates. The Clipper project, a multibillion-dollar bugging effort, was killed by its own leak.

Still, the most brilliant part of Al Gore's Clipper plan was that the backdoor keys for the electronic bugs were to be placed into the safe hands of Commerce Secretary Ron Brown and Deputy Attorney General Webster Hubbell.

Brown later died in a plane crash and Hubbell resigned to spend time in jail for bilking his Rose office clients. It is no surprise that Hillary Clinton's book "Living History" says very little about her relationship with Ron Brown and Webster Hubbell.

More:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/11/26/180021.shtml
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Ringo84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-09-06 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. Also
Remind them that if we weren't in "times of war", they'd decry every "big government" measure that came down the pike. But it's a Republican passing them right now, so it's OK.

Damn hypocrites. Not that there isn't hypocrisy on our side too, but hypocrisy that places our civil rights in danger is much worse.
Ringo
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