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Where Does Kerry Stand on Continuing Military Ops in Iraq??

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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:01 PM
Original message
Where Does Kerry Stand on Continuing Military Ops in Iraq??
I am curious where Kerry stands regarding Iraq. Is he going to "stay the course" maintaining current troop concentrations, allowing our soldiers to continue being needlessly killed in this dangerous country we occupy? Will he allow the war profiteering to continue? If Iraq dissolves into civil war, would he engage fundamentalist Islamists aligned with Sistani in order to prevent an Iran-style theocracy? Or does he have the cajones to pull our forces out and allow the Iraqis and UN determine what is best for Iraq? I haven't heard too much regarding this. Please fill me in. Thanks.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. He believes he is the best man to run the crusade

He is not alone in that, nor in his belief that if people from lots of other countries join the US in committing crimes against humanity, that will make things a lot better.
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. That is depressing.
Hey Kerry supporters, can you answer my question? Tell me what he will do in Iraq, what his plan is, please.
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Crusade?
Especially ther term I did not want to hear.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Wow I guess Bush isn't the only one that exaggerates the threat
Kerry's plan is to increase cooperation internationally and get muslim and arab cultures to support us in normalizing Iraq. He does not plan a build up and this info is easily available on GOOGLE to anyone interested in the truth.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. That's what I said. It's all in the vocabluary. For example:

"Operation Kill Iraqis and Steal the Oil" doesn't sound too good.

"Operation Iraqi Freedom" sounds a lot nicer.

I'm sure Kerry and the other "major" candidates will be able to think of even more attractive names for it.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. What the fuck do you suggest? Leave and let them all kill each other?
Then we can call it Operation Iraqi Abandonment...wtf...I like vowels better than consonants anyway.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I understand that the notion that America knows what is best for what

it considers its properties around the globe, and to be fair, this idea is so deeply ingrained that many people do not realize it.

Western colonialization of ancient lands has long relied on this sacred principle, that the primitive brown ones, poor things, need the strong guiding hand of Great White Father to lead them to their divinely ordained place at the right hand of their betters.

However, this reasoning has never enjoyed the same popularity in the Majority World that it does in the West, and there is no indication that it is likely to catch on.

The US and its "international" agency, the UN, have done enough. Really.

If the US wants to "help," they should write a blank check to every NGO in the world that is NOT affiliated with either US or UN, and get every crusader, every "commercial," "covert operative" and consultant and every weapon that they brought in, leave the plowshares, and get the hell out, and stay out. Of Iraq, of Afghanistan, of Pakistan, Yemen, Arabia, everywhere. Cut off the client states and let the people of the world choose their own governments.

This planet is NOT the property of the US, and given the history, it is indeed likely that given the chance, most countries will choose governments that do not put US business interests above the welfare of their own people.

If I break into your house, beat up your wife and kids, kill your grandparents and the baby, break the dog's tail, steal the silver and trash the place, will you be pleased when I then announce that I have decided to stay awhile to "secure" your remaining valuables and instruct you in how to run your household as I believe it should be run?

I think you will asure me that that will not be necessary, that I have done enough.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Funny..in AMerica if you broke into my house and did that the courts
would more likely than not order you to pay restitution. Why is restitution good enough for us but not for Iraq? Oh and you hate the UN too? Then why argue that we should have gone through the UN? Isn't that the anti-war stance or are you an army of one?
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. The UN is essentially the US, and if you read my post, I did

say that if the US wishes to "make restitution" that they do so via blank check to humanitarian orgs not affiliated with either US or its international approval appearance committee that the Iraqi people can thank for 12 years of sanctions that murdered no one knows how many millions of their children, after which it essentially sat on its hands and did as it was told for both invasion and occupation.

When ordered to do so by the US, the UN even refused to pass a resolution condemning the murder of UN employees.



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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. We've caused enough trouble!
We should turn things over to less-bloody-handed third parties, we should pay full reparations, we should send the criminals to the world court, and we should get the hell out of Iraq!
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. i suggest you read a great article by tariq ali
Edited on Wed Feb-04-04 04:33 PM by corporatewhore

The Iraqi maquis have weakened George Bush's position in the US and enabled Democrat politicians to criticize the White House, with Howard Dean daring to suggest a total US withdrawal within two years. Even the bien pensants who opposed the war but support the occupation and denounce the resistance know that without it they would have been confronted with a triumphalist chorus from the warmongers. Most important, the disaster in Iraq has indefinitely delayed further adventures in Iran and Syria.
One of the more comical sights in recent months was Paul Wolfowitz on one of his many visits informing a press conference in Baghdad that the "main problem was that there were too many foreigners in Iraq". Most Iraqis see the occupation armies as the real "foreign terrorists". Why? Because once you occupy a country, you have to behave in colonial fashion. This happens even where there is no resistance, as in the protectorates of Bosnia and Kosovo. Where there is resistance, as in Iraq, the only model on offer is a mixture of Gaza and Guantanamo.
Nor does it behoove western commentators whose countries are occupying Iraq to lay down conditions for those opposing it. It is an ugly occupation, and this determines the response. According to Iraqi opposition sources, there are more than 40 different resistance organizations. They consist of Ba'athists, dissident communists, disgusted by the treachery of the Iraqi Communist party in backing the occupation, nationalists, groups of Iraqi soldiers and officers disbanded by the occupation, and Sunni and Shia religious groups.

The great poets of Iraq - Saadi Youssef and Mudhaffar al-Nawab - once brutally persecuted by Saddam, but still in exile, are the consciences of their nation. Their angry poems denouncing the occupation and heaping scorn on the jackals - or quislings - help to sustain the spirit of resistance and renewal.

Youssef writes: I'll spit in the jackals' faces/ I'll spit on their lists/ I'll declare that we are the people of Iraq/ We are the ancestral trees of this land.

And Nawwab: And never trust a freedom fighter/ Who turns up with no arms/ Believe me, I got burnt in that crematorium/ Truth is, you're only as big as your cannons/ While those who wave knives and forks/ Simply have eyes for their stomachs.

In other words, the resistance is predominantly Iraqi - though I would not be surprised if other Arabs are crossing the borders to help. If there are Poles and Ukrainians in Baghdad and Najaf, why should Arabs not help each other? The key fact of the resistance is that it is decentralized - the classic first stage of guerrilla warfare against an occupying army. Yesterday's downing of a US Chinook helicopter follows that same pattern. Whether these groups will move to the second stage and establish an Iraqi National Liberation Front remains to be seen.
As for the UN acting as an "honest broker", forget it - especially in Iraq, where it is part of the problem. Leaving aside its previous record (as the administrator of the killer sanctions, and the backer of weekly Anglo-American bombing raids for 12 years), on October 16 the security council disgraced itself again by welcoming "the positive response of the international community... to the broadly representative governing council... supports the governing council's efforts to mobilize the people of Iraq..." Meanwhile a beaming fraudster, Ahmed Chalabi, was given the Iraqi seat at the UN. One can't help recalling how the US and Britain insisted on Pol Pot retaining his seat for over a decade after being toppled by the Vietnamese. The only norm recognized by the security council is brute force, and today there is only one power with the capacity to deploy it. That is why, for many in the southern hemisphere and elsewhere, the UN is the US.

The Arab east is today the venue of a dual occupation: the US-Israeli occupation of Palestine and Iraq. If initially the Palestinians were demoralized by the fall of Baghdad, the emergence of a resistance movement has encouraged them. After Baghdad fell, the Israeli war leader, Ariel Sharon, told the Palestinians to "come to your senses now that your protector has gone". As if the Palestinian struggle was dependent on Saddam or any other individual. This old colonial notion that the Arabs are lost without a headman is being contested in Gaza and Baghdad. And were Saddam to drop dead tomorrow, the resistance would increase rather than die down.
Sooner or later, all foreign troops will have to leave Iraq. If they do not do so voluntarily, they will be driven out. Their continuing presence is a spur to violence. When Iraq's people regain control of their own destiny they will decide the internal structures and the external policies of their country. One can hope that this will combine democracy and social justice, a formula that has set Latin America alight but is greatly resented by the Empire. Meanwhile, Iraqis have one thing of which they can be proud and of which British and US citizens should be envious: an opposition.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1103-07.htm
Tariq Ali's
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. Ummm... is this a question no Kerry supporter can answer?
Looks that way. C'mon, I want to know! Tell me Kerry's plan for Iraq, it's important!
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/iraq/
Edited on Wed Feb-04-04 03:10 PM by emulatorloo
http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/iraq/

edit: add link to post for easy clicking!
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. From what I can glean (and it isn't easy)
Kerry would essentially "stay the course". It's the old "we broke it, so we fix it" cannard. It's like I break into your house, kill half of your family, destroy your house and steal everything that isn't destroyed. Then instead of leaving, I lock what's left of your family in the basement and hold them there until I "fix" your house to my liking. Hey, I broke it, so I fix it! Then we'll be all even.
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democratreformed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. What an interesting analogy.
I had never really thought of it that way. These kinds of analogies are what help me to understand others' points of view. Thank you for sharing this with me.
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RichM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
15. He wants to add 40,000 MORE troops to military ops (link) -
Edited on Wed Feb-04-04 04:24 PM by RichM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-dems17.html

This stupid idea is an example (one among many) of why the media & Establishment in general find Kerry to be such an acceptable Democrat.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. the question i have is does kerry spell D-R-A-F-T
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
16. Just check the polls. That's what decideds Kerry's stance.
A man of principles who derives them from the mood of the voters at any given time.
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TheDonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
19. Same reason Edwards, and Dean want to stay in
WE need to get the UN in, and keep some Americans in as well.

Their plans are much better than spaceshrub... but if u want to vote for him coming up that's your choice.
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lcordero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
20. does this shed a little more light?
http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-dems17.html

Kerry says U.S. military needs 40,000 more troops

December 17, 2003

BY MIKE WILSON Advertisement

DES MOINES, Iowa -- Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry said Tuesday he would expand the U.S. military within his first 100 days as president, contending 40,000 more troops are needed to meet America's responsibilities around the world.


How do you think that he is going to "expand the U.S. military within his first 100 days"? :eyes:
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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Boy, am I glad that
I don't have a son of draft age. Where the heck does he expect to get 40,000 more men and women?
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