I support English as an official language...here's why.

[Jamison]

If everyone speaks the same language & is on the same page it eliminates just about all communication barriers & makes everything more efficient, ie. there would be no language barriers in the workplace, etc.

Just my $.02

[AndyTiedye]

1. It Disenfranchises Those Who Don't Speak English

The Republicans are pushing this because most of the people
who would be disenfranchised are Democrats.

[Breeze54]

7. I don't think that's why

I think they are just playing to their supporters who are screaming about illegal immigration.
They're just trying to appease them, make it look like "they're doing something',
when they really aren't. After all; this is an election year.
You know how stupid repigs are! :rofl:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/05/19/evangelicals_tightlipped_on_immigration/
Evangelicals Tightlipped on Immigration
By RICHARD N. OSTLING (AP Religion Writer)
From Associated Press
May 19, 2006 6:42 PM EDT
Snip-->
"Pew Research Center polling this year showed nearly two-thirds of white evangelicals
thought immigrants threaten "traditional American customs and values" and are a burden on
"our jobs, housing and health care," well above the percentages for white Catholics,
mainline Protestants and the U.S. population in general." <--Snip

[ldf]

33. if you feel disinfranchised because you don't speak

the language of the country you IMMIGRATED to, then maybe you should learn the language.

if you are a second generation american who only speaks the language of your household, then i suggest you make a little effort and LEARN the language of the country your parents immigrated to.

if we allow this country to dissolve into pockets of ethnicities, like the balkans, we will end up just LIKE the balkans. piecemeal, constantaly at war with each other over "cultural" issues going back decades.

personally, i see it already happening. since the huge waves of hispanics continue to come, living at a subradar level where they don't have to learn the language, and by having baby after baby after baby, this country will change its official language to spanish in about 25 years. its basic math, folks.

unless we nip it in the bud, NOW.

(and i specifically mention hispanics because i don't see other cultures so resistant to assimilation. assimilation does NOT mean total erasure of a culture.)

if you find that acceptable, then there is no compromise. as far as i'm concerned, that is NOT an option.

this nation was a leader of the world for decades. why? not because our guns were bigger, but because of our common dreams and common efforts, which worked together to allow us to be on the forefront of education and technology.

now, here in the good 'ol us of a, thanks to corporate rule taking over the government, all for the goal of the almighty dollar, we now have corporations who will willingly subvert entire nations for their own profit, exploiting a permanent subclass of nonenglish speakers who will forever supply the cheap labor for those corporations. add to that the dumbing down of the american education system by those who push family oriented (read BIBLE based) "facts", and you have the ultimate recipe for an unlimited supply of willingly ignorant peasants.

that cheap labor will spell the death of the unions. mostly through unions, the working class was able to better its econmonic status. saint ronnie brought THAT to a screeching halt. lord pissypants is just continuing the process begun by him.

now, with so many willing to work below the minimum wage, or just for tips, the business community could not be happier.

at the same time, with the rich becoming richer, THEIR whole focus is to make money off of nothing (wall street) and care not of the postive or negative effects of a corportion, but only for the dividends it pays.

so, when the continually growing divisions between communities, exploited by the republicans, being fed by racism, bigotry and hatred, with a huge undercurrent of religious intolerance, intersect with the new class of investor who will sell out the welfare of their own country for a buck of dividends, the result is a former first world nation on the skids, rapidly becoming a third world nation.

the money interests win out, and they, frankly, don't give a damn. the mega rich always gets richer. for them, this downturn is a ripe opportunity for the plunder of riches, as lesser economic interests fail, and are sold off to who? the mega rich who orchestrates the whole show. their world is never touched. (or so they think. they may be in for a rude awakening...)

on the other hand, i have become so ashamed of what this country has become, maybe the best thing that could happen to us would be for the good 'ol us of a to dissolve out of existence.

but i haven't given up yet. there is still a glimmer of hope, but it is fading fast.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

34. The number of second-generation immigrants who don't speak English

is so tiny as to be not worth mentioning.

They may prefer to speak their heritage language among themselves, but they almost all speak English, usually without an accent, and to the consternation of their parents, many are English-dominant.

The classic immigrant situation is the parent speaking the heritage language and the child answering in English.

The notion of generations of immigrants not learning English is a straw man, and an imaginary one at that.

(The only possible exception are Puerto Ricans, who are U.S. citizens living in a territory where the official language is Spanish.)

[ldf]

40. well, then, lets not mention it, shall we?

ok. whatever.

i live in an area of manhattan where, when i go to the grocery store, if i have a question, i have to ask three or four people before i find someone that can speak english.

shoppers at the store can't speak english, and allegedly can't receive benefits because they are not citizens, but they all have food stamps and welfare "credit" cards. they sure seem to know how to operate the pin # pad.

i live here because it is all i can afford. i pay 1500 a month, but a Section 8 renter (below poverty income) pays 498 for the same apartment. many apartments have large numbers living in them.

they are not all young, obviously fresh over the border.

we see news segments all the time of people who live here, having to use interpreters. as admitted in the newscasts, many have lived here for decades.

how do they do that?

up until recently, the school system had "social promotion", meaning no one failed, pass them along because we wouldn't want to hurt their self esteem.

meaning you can graduate and still be functionally illiterate, not speaking the language of the country you moved to.

effort is just that. effort. it doesn't cost a thing, just a desire to learn. simple osmosis should do it, unless there is no desire whatsoever to learn.

with choices, you have responsibilities. if you want to live here, make an effort to learn to communicate. i have no intention of doing it for you.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

44. I hardly know where to start

live in an area of manhattan where, when i go to the grocery store, if i have a question, i have to ask three or four people before i find someone that can speak english.

Then you must live in one of the constantly changing "ethnic islands" that every major city has. In the early 1900s, there was a large neighborhood in Minneapolis where you could get by speaking only German, and another where you could get by speaking only Swedish. The former German neighborhood is now majority African-American, and the former Swedish neighborhood is now Somali and Latino, after a few decades of being English-only. Who knows what it will be in another generation?

shoppers at the store can't speak english, and allegedly can't receive benefits because they are not citizens, but they all have food stamps and welfare "credit" cards. they sure seem to know how to operate the pin # pad.

If you're seeing welfare "credit cards", then you're looking too closely at your fellow shoppers' transactions. :-) I don't know what ethnic group you're dealing with, but refugees, at least, get three months (just three months) of welfare benefits. Illegal immigrants can't get such benefits for the simple reason that they'd get turned in to the INS if they tried.

Another possibility: if your neighbors are Puerto Rican, they're already U.S. citizens and therefore eligible for welfare benefits on the same basis as any other U.S. citizen.

i live here because it is all i can afford. i pay 1500 a month, but a Section 8 renter (below poverty income) pays 498 for the same apartment. many apartments have large numbers living in them.

Since when is Section 8 available only to immigrants? You'd better hope that you never become poor enough to qualify for Section 8.

they are not all young, obviously fresh over the border.

we see news segments all the time of people who live here, having to use interpreters. as admitted in the newscasts, many have lived here for decades.

Hey, my great-grandparents, who came from Germany in 1899, never REALLY learned English, but their four children all spoke English without an accent. No matter what the ethnic group, the second-generation and the people who came to this country before adolescence grow up speaking English without an accent. I've seen this so many times from so many ethnic groups.

how do they do that?

By living in the aforementioned ethnic islands. It limits them, but they can function, and their children will move on.

up until recently, the school system had "social promotion", meaning no one failed, pass them along because we wouldn't want to hurt their self esteem.

meaning you can graduate and still be functionally illiterate, not speaking the language of the country you moved to.

And this happens how often? How many U.S. high school graduates have you met who can't even manage basic communication (such as helping you in a store) in English?

effort is just that. effort. it doesn't cost a thing, just a desire to learn. simple osmosis should do it, unless there is no desire whatsoever to learn.

Simple osmosis, huh? I suggest you try it some day. Try just "picking up" the language of your immigrant neighbors "through osmosis." See how easy it is...NOT? Especially if your neighbors are Korean or Somali or speakers of some other language that is totally unrelated to English. Prepubescent children, and to a lesser extent, teenagers, can learn new languages by osmosis, but foreign language learning is an ability that has been proven repeatedly to decline with age.

with choices, you have responsibilities. if you want to live here, make an effort to learn to communicate. i have no intention of doing it for you. I agree that people should learn the language of the country they're living in. If only American expatriates would do it instead of saying "Everyone here speaks English" or "You just need a few basic phrases to get by."

However, we do not provide the resources that adults need to learn a second language. Publicly funded ESL classes have huge waiting lists. Ideally, we would do as Israel does with Hebrew and require all non-English speaking immigrants to attend a kind of "language boot camp" before being allowed to settle in, but that would take money, and it's more fun to gripe about how those damned immigrants aren't learning English "by osmosis" after days spent cleaning toilets or digging ditches.

[ldf]

53. me neither...

just to address a few remarks...

ethnically changing neigborhood?

yes, neighborhoods change, but that isn't the problem. my point is about immigrants who come here and expect to be catered to, instead of making an effort to adjust.

in my job i am frequently talking to potential students. one of the many positives i try to point out about life in manhattan is that manhattan is the american personification of the melting pot.

yet, the concoction in the pot does not have to become a bland gruel, but instead remains a tasty stew, with juicy morsels of distinct flavors.

i do not want a gruel. but i also do not want to live in a foreign land, right here.

next, snooping?

when you are standing two feet away from someone you are not "looking to closely" at the card used for payment. it is easily recognizable. but your inference of invading their privacy is to be expected. if you think two feet is too close, trying shopping in one of these small, packed, overcrowded grocery stores here. you may see a lot that you aren't looking for.

next, section eight only for immigrants?

of course not. yet living in a highrise one step up from projects, with few people rarely speaking english, being unable to have a conversation because they don't understand what you say, then i can probably safely assume that there are a lot of immigrants in my building.

add to that the fact that no one will complain about anything, be it trash in the elevators, grafitti in the hallways, the disgusting and filthy conditions in the laudry room, the noise from steros that penetrate concrete floors, i, once again making gross assumptions, can only think that it is an aversion to drawing attention to ones self.

next, great grandparents, next generation, english speakers....

again, my point is that there seems to be a different philosophy at work now. yes, in the past, the next generation WAS the bridge.

i'm not seeing many bridges now. the emphasis now seems to be that, due to the massive numbers that we have already allowed in, we must do things on their terms, which include catering to their lack of willingness to learn english. and once they become, numerically, the majority, we will have no choice.

sorry, no can do.

next, how many graduates can't communicate?

come to new york city. try riding the subways through some of these "ethinic islands" and listen to some of the conversations coming out of the mouths of these high school age young people. i sure as hell woudn't hire them.

next, osmosis?

again, effort. a little.

this whole thread is not about smaller ethnic groups like somali and korean. are they demanding everything be reprinted including their language? although i will proudly admit that in nyc you do see signs with the same thing posted in five or six languages. but that is more for tourism, a huge source of income for the city.

and yes, i realize it is harder to learn other languages the older we get. i am there already. but i would NEVER move to another country without at least conquering the minimum required for coherent dialogue with one of my new neighbors. it may take time, but i would do it.

and i do not expect less from others moving here.

i do agree with you on most points, even though it may not seem so.

we don't provide enough resources. but hell, we can't feed our own, protect our own, educate our own, since we are too busy sending billions on top of billions to other parts of the world to allow "freedom to be on the march".

can you imagine how much our own people could benefit if all that money was directed toward bettering our own lives?

we could even afford to accept, teach, train and appreciate the new people willing to put their lives on the line just to get here.

then we all could grow together.

what a concept!

[TheFarseer]

69. Why can't immigrants learn English before

they come here? They could have classes sponsored by the corporations that hire them or the Mexican government, since they are the beneficiaries of this immigration. Hell, they could even do all the requirements to make their immigration legal! We've got to get over that mentality that immigrants from the 1800's often didn't know the language. This is a vastly different world and besides, that whole Ellis Island thing wasn't as easy as just hopping over a busted barbed wire fence.

[Bridget Burke]

64. If you are worried about "racism, bigotry & intolerance"....

Stop being racist, bigoted & intolerant.

And if you give a fuck about the English language, learn to punctuate. And locate your shift key.

[NativeTexan]

43. Learning English would......

"Enfranchise" (if that's a word..lol) EVERYONE in an English speaking country.

[Rockholm]

57. Then they need to learn English.

[pnwmom]

63. How come no one wonders why Mexico has an official

language (Spanish), as do most of the countries of Central and South America? Half the countries in the world , in fact, have an official language. But Americans who support having an official language in the U.S. are accused of being racist. Why is that? Aren't there some practical reasons for having an official language?

In the schools in my area, about 60 different languages are spoken at home. Many of the ESL students are white. We don't have a single group that predominates here, as Mexican Americans do in Texas or Southern California. Although I haven't thought enough about the issue to make up my mind (and am not familiar with the specifics of the current bills), I'm wondering why it's racist to even consider the concept?

[niyad]

2. I give you the chimperor. one basic flaw in your argument is your

assumption that everyone will speak the same, be on the same level linguistically. that isn't a likely scenario.

[EFerrari]

3. So, you'd support translating your town's name into English?

:)

[Tunkamerica]

4. isn't this all pretty pointless?

will people be arrested for not learning english? will our tax dollars go towards implementation of this "law" when they could go toward something more important? will this debate detract from other more important topics? don't 98-99 per cent of people in the US speak english? don't most (92%) immigrants learn english in order to succeed?

distractionary tactics prevail once again

[blondeatlast]

20. Distraction--and pandering to the worst instincts of the GOP.

You are right on the money, friend.

Welcome to DU! :toast:

[bahrbearian]

5. Why not make "Sign Language " the official language

then the deaf can be included.

[sam sarrha]

6. Esperanto solves all that, and helps keep cultures viable

[quickesst]

9. This....

"If everyone speaks the same language & is on the same page it eliminates just about all communication barriers & makes everything more efficient, ie. there would be no language barriers in the workplace, etc."

...is the most logical statement I have read yet concerning this issue. People really expect the best and most logical course is for the entire population of the US and it's legal citizens to take on a second language to accommodate, at the most, 20 million people who are in this country by circumventing the law to do it. I have never been one to allow uncontrolled emotion get in the way of making a decision or taking a stand on issues. For best results, logic trumps emotion every time.
quickesst

[sam sarrha]

11. when the 20,000,000 get citizenship, they will bring in another 88,000,000

that the present immigration laws allow.. family:wife kids, mom dad, siblings and their families.. could be a lot more than another 88,000,000, what are Rents and mortgages going to go to when they move in.. we lost 28,000,000 jobs to NAFTA and 20,000,000 to migrants and another maybe 100,000,000 in 15 years to the next surprise.. not to mention jobs lost to China, India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, costa rica, and now free trade in south america etc etc..

when does the bull shit end.. when do we look at the bigger picture, beyond this quarters corporate profits.. and the divide and conquer tactics dividing us on moral and emotional issues.

[niyad]

24. welcome to DU--alas, even those who, theoretically at least, speak the

same language, often have difficulty in communicating, due to various factors, including the level of skill in speaking said language--and the dialect in which one speaks.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Do you speak German?

That ALMOST became the official language

Look right now English is the Lingua Franca (here I go with my latin I know)... and if you want to function in society you need it. But right now we are going through the same crap we go through with every migratory wave.

Fact is... if I had it my way all kids in this country would learn English and a second language WELL. Why don't they? Well we have yet to figure out how they do it in other countries. Gee, here is my list IN ORDER... and it enriches my life

Spanish, Hebrew, English, American (yes there are enough differences), a smattering of German and a smattering of Ydish. Does that mean I cannot function in America? Not really, but it makes my life richer. Hell I can watch a movie in Spanish and NO NEED for subtittles... try that. Oh and when I go visit Mexico, I can speak the local lingo too... imagine that.

[mim]

14. I agree

I wish I were fluent in another language, and knew the foreign languages I know some of better than I do. And I wish everyone else knew a foreign language, or at least studied one seriously. Those Europeans put us to shame.

But first things first. Yes, at the turn of the last century, lots of native-born Americans were in a tizzy. They thought feeble-minded foreigners would overrun America. But those who were here made it their business that the newcomers would learn English, and that effort paid off. I don't mean that it should be considered un-American to speak other languages in addition, but when we come together as Americans, let us be able to communicate.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

35. Here's the difference: We're not funding ESL programs for immigrants

We expect them to just magically start speaking English somehow.

If you want adults to learn a new language beyond the grunt and point stage, you have to provide instruction, and I can't imagine Republicans spending "their hard-earned taxes" on teaching English to immigrants. It's more fun and more politically expedient to bash them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Well said

At the turn of the last century there was funding for taeching ESL, now we see all those programs just going away

Oh and what I said is true... the reason why bilingual programs fail in the US is the way they are run... which is VERY DIFFERNT from anywhere else in the world... like they are meant to fail

[mim]

12. It won't go that far, but it will help

I'm with you, Jamison. See my post on the "so the morans want english" thread.

In the workplace, let workers converse in their native language if they want to. And in businesses catering to foreign speakers, by all means, speak the customers' language. But in general, English is the language for getting the work done, especially if the workplace is ethnically diverse.

So if GWB says we should brush our teeth regularly, must we progressives knock ours out?

[IdaBriggs]

13. Worked real well with Latin. (You do speak Latin, right?)

It is, after all, the language of the educated elite.

[mim]

15. It used to be, but it isn't any more

And when it was the language of the educated elite, the non-elite were cut off from the conversation. For that reason, John Calvin wrote his Institutes of the Christian Religion both in Latin (so the European elite could understand it) and in French (so his compatriots could understand it).

[blondeatlast]

16. Thank God the Senate took on this issue at last

Why should I bother learning the simple noun "basura" when the SENATE can solve my workplace communication problems?

Now, if they'll take a look at that pesky DEFICIT...

On second thought, that might not be such a good idea after all.

:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:

[blondeatlast]

17. ?Dnde le hace trabaja que eso es tal problema?

Oops--slap the cuffs on me now, I confess!

Where in the USA do you work that that is such a tremendous problem that the Senate needs to address it because this site can't?

http://www.freetranslation.com/

:eyes:

[Klukie]

18. If I moved to Italy....

Would I continue to speak only English and would I expect the Italian government to accomodate my choice? What about Germany, France, Japan, And Mexico? I think some of the problem is that the US as a country is constantly striving to prove how free and tolerant it is all the while losing sight of the basic concepts of what unites us as a people. We don't have to sacrifice our language to maintain equality. That is like saying that we have to sacrifice our freedoms for safety. I see nothing wrong with outlining some basic principles that define us as a nation.

[blondeatlast]

19. I couldn't care less what language you speak, or my neighbor

speaks, or the cleaning crew, etc.

None o' my damn bidness.

What I do give a damn about is that the Senate took their precious time for this worthless, symbolic, pandering trivia.

:mad:

[Klukie]

22. Whether you care or not ....

doesn't erase the fact that many in this country do. Including Democrats, Republicans, Workers, racists, freedom lovers, etc. Yeah I am pissed that the senate is addressing this at a time when we have very real issues that need immediate attention but that doesn't mean I don't have a view on the issue.

[blondeatlast]

25. Okay, answer me this: WHY does it matter so to you?

It's people's conversation and I dunno, I was taught not to care what other people were talking about--or to pay attention to it, either.

So glad the Senate is here to interfere when simple etiquette (oops--sorry--MANNERS) doesn't do the trick.

:eyes:

[Klukie]

29. I think you are really misrepresenting or...

misunderstanding the issue at hand. I don't care what language people choose to speak. It is America after all, but this issue goes way beyond simple etiquette. It matters to me because I feel as a country we are being forced to accomodate those who come here illegally and refuse to speak the language. I worked in the commercial electrical trade with my husband for two years. Besides the fact that the majority of workers on these construction site were illegal, the majority of them refused to learn the english language. Usually there was one guy who knew enough to get by and he would translate for the others. This was a major source of frustration and a huge safety issue. Very frustrating to be efficiant in your work with such a huge communication gap. The safety issue is what really drives my point of view on this because it was a real problem. For one thing electrical work can cause serious injuries if not done correctly. Now add in the fact that you are having to communicate by using drawings and hand signals. Not very safe in my opinion. Also, many of these illegals used electrical standards that they used in Mexico. Very scary indeed. We have much more stringent codes and laws when it comes to our trades in America. Now imagine the difficulty trying to ensure safety and efficiancy in these conditions. Shouldn't the burden of accomodation be placed upon those who are trying to establish themselves in this country?

[blondeatlast]

30. M'friend, I live in Phoenix and work for city government.

I know plenty of contractors around here who've taken the time to learn Spanish. If they don't, they don't get contracts.

It's the free-market at work on a local level.

I learned to speak the secondary predominant language of my area knowing full well that it would improve my hiring ability and economic status--I'm a librarian.

My neighbor speaks no English--but makes me a dozen tamales every month at no charge, 'cause she thinks I'm a nice lady and talk to her.

You might find this helpful--and also look at Rosetta Stone (check your local library):
http://ets.freetranslation.com/

Ningún problema para mí.

[Klukie]

31. Well I guess we will.......

Have to agree to disagree on this one but thanks for the info.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. Dammit, they're not "refusing" to learn English

:grr:

[Klukie]

47. Mabye we are both wrong....

Some are refusing while others are not.

[Jade Fox]

70. I've got a co-worker who's doing just that.....

She has been in this country for 15 years, is married to an American man, has a child born in and attending school in this country, yet we can barely understand her. Under those circumstances I can only come to the conclusion she's just not making the effort.

This woman has been passed over twice for promotion, specifically because she would not be able to do the jobs with her poor communication skills. She thinks that's unfair. Having much first hand experience trying to communicate with her, I do not.

Separate from the fact that the Repubs are signaling to the racists/xenophobes in their base, on jobs more language oriented than yard work, being able to speak English is a legitimate issue.

[noamnety]

42. and there's the real message

"Also, many of these illegals used electrical standards that they used in Mexico. Very scary indeed."

Why not just say "with or without a communications barrier, whether or not they're here legally or speak English, I oppose Mexicans working here." Why try to hide the xenophobia in polite linguistic excuses?

This is from another forum; it sums things up rather well:

I once got to talk with a minor local Republican officeholder about a proposed English-only amendment. It went something to the effect of...

"So, the thing I've always loved about the Republican Party is that whole principle about, "Give a man a fish, he eats for a day; teach a man to fish, he eats for life." That's really kind of profound, very inspiring, and very American. So I was thinking about this English-only amendment; it's really not a such bad idea, and there's kind of a hidden opportunity in there. What if there were a rider that guaranteed English classes for any immigrant or person who needed them? Wouldn't that be a great expression of American and Republican ideals?"

"I'd really just prefer that they didn't come here at all."

That was exactly the moment when I gave up and became a lefty.

[Klukie]

46. I meant that statement....

as an additional example of why the communication barrier is a problem not as hidden xenophobia. I stand by the statement. It it something I witnessed with my own to eyes repeatedly. It is also a very scary concept for safety reasons. I honestly have no problem with mexicans, chinese , japanese, irish, etc. working here as long as it is done legally. And yes I would prefer that these folks learn to speak the common language of our nation. That doesn't make me a Xenophobe or racist. I really think there is alot of confusion between immigration and illegality. They are not the same thing.

[noamnety]

52. Why are you tying language to job knowledge?

It sounds like you have two complaints.

1. Employers hire electrical workers that aren't qualified - they don't know the current building codes.

2. Most people in the country speak my language, therefore EVERYONE should speak my language. It's just safer that way.


The two statements are completely unrelated.

1. If you have a problem with unqualified workers, instead of "Mexicans are unsafe workers, it's very scary" - why not push for better licensing or job candidate testing of electrical workers?

2. What if the dominant language in the US in 25 years is Spanish? If that happens, will you support making Spanish the official language, and push for all citizens to learn that?

I'm guessing you won't.

[Klukie]

55. I am tying language to job knowledge....

because they are directly related. How can one teach another to do a job properly when they don't speak the same language? I have a huge problem with the hiring of workers that are unqualified, but it is even worse when they are unqualified and can't speak the language. You and I both know that I could push for all kinds of reform and it probably wouldn't make one bit of differnce. I could even complain to my employers at the risk of my own job. The hiring of this particular group of unqualified workers boils down to cheap labor and profit. If I could solve that problem I most certainly would by penalizing the employers who exploit these folks to begin with. The reality is that they are there and they will probably always be there. So given that, I think it would be beneficial if we could communicate. I think the language burden should be placed on those who choose to enter our country.

[noamnety]

56. are deaf workers unsafe?

and what of my second question - what if, in 25 years, Spanish becomes the predominant language here. Would you support making everyone learn that, in the interest of safety?

I'm pushing that point, because I'm trying to get at whether you really deep down see this as a safety issue, or whether it's an entitlement issue. (THEY should learn MY language, because I was here first.)

[Klukie]

58. Yes ....

deaf workers could be considered unsafe if placed in a job that required hearing and didn't have the technology to accomodate them, but are all deaf workers unsafe... no. Not really a fair comparison. As for your second question, the answer is yes I would support making everyone learn the language but not in the interest of safety. If spanish becomes the predominant language then we will have no choice but to learn it because all employers will require it. I would have to say that this is a safety issue as well as an entitlement issue. This doesn't boil down to "because I was here first" though. This comes down to who the burden should be placed upon. It seems that either way someone is going to have to adapt and I just don't think it should be on the legal citizens of this country.


...the safety issue truly concerns me because I watched as my husband had an electrical panel blow up in his face as a result of miscommunication. So yeah I have a thing for safety.

[noamnety]

60. Seems like a fair comparison to me

If you consider language barriers as unsafe working conditions, then that would include people that use ASL. Either the rest of us adapt because they have as much right to work as us, or we declare ourselves unable to adapt - in which case the fault is as much ours as theirs.

Seriously, if you had such a huge problem working with Mexicans because of the language barrier, if you felt safety was really being compromised that much, why didn't you just take a Spanish class or two? What stopped you?

Legal citizens in other countries learn other languages because market forces dictate that it's a smart thing to do. Ever travel in Europe? It's pretty easy to find a waiter or hotel clerk that knows some basic English, because part of their business lives involves working with people that aren't French/Italian/etc. speakers.

Some days I think people don't get the whole communication idea. Communication is a two way thing, to exchange information. The burden isn't on just one person in a conversation. It's not MY job to communicate with YOU. But yet when I read your last sentence, that's what I see. "Someone" is going to have to adapt. Not "we all" have to adapt. Apart from the one-directional command implied there, I'm don't even understand why this is suddenly an issue. Why, all of a sudden, does "someone" have to adapt? What mythical catastrophe is going to unfold if they don't?

Have we really gotten that intellectually lazy in the last couple centuries that we are now offended when we have to gesture or draw a picture to get our point across to someone?

[Bridget Burke]

66. Did the workers "refuse" to learn English?

What affordabel ESL classes awaited them after a long day's work?

Who hires the "unsafe" workers? Apparently, you did for two years.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

36. If you went to Japan, the government would provide A LOT of information

in English, actually.

Emergency information, such as what to do in an earthquake, is provided in several languages.

In my observation, Americans are the worst offenders in going to live in a country and not learning the local language. And they're usually more on the affluent side and don't have the excuse of being impoverished and too tired to study the langauge after long days washing dishes or cleaning offices.

[Klukie]

48. I have no problem

with providing essentials such as emergency information, banking options, etc. The problem I have is when we have to start accomodating in workplaces. A poster above stated that they had learned spanish to help further themselves in the workplace. That is all fine and good but I just don't think the burden should be placed on the natural citizen whose language is english to change to accomodate those coming from other countries. In reality, Americans are viewed as assholes when they go to other countries and blatently refuse to speak the language.

[butterfly77]

49. you said it better than I Klukie...

[Toots]

21. Americans don't even speak "English"

I could list hundreds of words we include in our language that are not "English" Kindergarten for instance or bayonet or ??? there is a long list...

[Solon]

23. And how does making it a law make that happen?

Talk about rhetoric that means nothing!

[blondeatlast]

27. My dear Solon--it stops them at the border, don'cha see?

If they can't speak the language, they won't come!

It stopped the Spaniards 5 centuries ago, ya know?

Obvious :sarcasm:, I hope...

[Solon]

32. Is that the border between Arizona and Utah, or the border between...

Texas and Oklahoma?

[blondeatlast]

61. ...

:thumbsup: :rofl:

[formernaderite]

26. I support open borders and english as the official language

I do not believe that any humans can be illegal...but I don't have any issue with them understanding that when they come here they'll need to learn the language. There is nothing racist in that, since we're not stating that any foreign tongue is exempt from that.

[blondeatlast]

28. India's official language is Hindi--but--

the UNIFYING language is English. More non-native speakers learn English than learn Hindi. It's simply a matter of economics of time and money.

There are tremendous political problems with Hindi being the official language; many REFUSE to learn it.

My husband is a native Hindi speaker and he speaks little Hindi now, to the detriment of our son. But he speaks English better than I do, in many cases.

An "official" language is a pointless exercise designed to sotthe the egos/nerves of people who perceive a threat to their way of life, IMHO.

I see no such threat regarding other people's choices of expression. Your mileage may differ.

[RDU Socialist]

38. there is nothing racist about english being an official language

however making it seem like only white people are speaking it or speaking it properly is.

[butterfly77]

50. Thank you! RDU Socialist

[RDU Socialist]

39. make it the official language and fund the implementation of this

so that everyone who doesn't speak english gradually learns to speak it well. i mean seriously, if you're in a country where the people who have any real power speak the language, it's just fucking common sense that you learn to speak that language well enough to survive.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

45. The funding is the key

The Republicanites and racist Democrats would rather rail against mythical immigrants who "refuse to learn English generation after generation" and then they don't want to spend the money to fund ESL classes.

There are plenty of unemployed ESL teachers in this country.

[BigYawn]

51. Speaking as an immigrant to USA.....who grew up in a

multi-lingual country, I have seen at FIRST HAND what a
divisive force multi-language system can cause. It causes
dissension, confusion, loss of efficiency in commercial and
official transactions. Having a single official language is
a tremendous unifying factor, and the sooner US takes steps
towards it, the better it will be for future generations.

[rockymountaindem]

54. Well, people keep bringing up places like Belgium and Switzerland

but I don't think they've ever lived there for more than a month. I've gone to school in Canada for three years, and I know firsthand how divided a multilingual society can be. Even in Canada, where I would say the two languages get along relatively well, there is still a lot of conflict between them, which has manifested itself in many ways throughout Canada's history. I don't envy their language situation north of the border, but it's what they've had their entire history and they need to make it work. As far as Belgium, I know a Belgian who says that the Francophone Belgians look down on Flemish as a barbaric gutter-language and refuse to have anything to do with it. In response, the Flemish have an inferiority complex. Not a good thing to promote national unity, in my opinion. Of course, that guy was a Francophone, so take that for what you will.

As of 2006, the US is at least a 90% English speaking society, and I don't see why that should change. Why create a potential problem where one does not currently exist?

[BigYawn]

62. You and I are on the same page................n/t

[High Plains]

72. Yeah, Switzerland is pure anarchy.

[GoneOffShore]

59. The Babel fish

by removing all barriers to communication, was the cause of more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of the Universe.

Douglas Adams - Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy

[nickshepDEM]

65. Im w/ ya'.

[Bridget Burke]

67. So snap your fingers & make everybody speak English.

Failing that, let succeeding generations learn the language. As they have from the beginning in the USA.

Even those who learn English will continue to speak other languages from time to time. Deal.

[TheFarseer]

68. Thanks for saying that

I agree. I have not been considered for a few jobs because I couldn't speak Spanish fluently - in my own country. I've heard people say that they can't get jobs at the Social Security office or the Welfare office because they can't speak fluent Spanish. After we pay into these places so that people who arguably don't belong here can get welfare, then we can't even get a job there. Pretty unbelievable. The fact is, these immigrants have got to learn English as soon as possible to be effective in any job market beyond fruit picking. By catering to them in Spanish we are "enabling" them to get by without learning English. It's like if your mom always tied your shoes for you, you would never learn to do it for yourself. I would never expect to move to France and have everyone cater to me in English. I'm sorry if people disagree with me but I feel strongly about this.

[Bridget Burke]

71. "Illegals" don't go to the Social Security office.

And they are NOT eligible for most "welfare."

I'd like to get a job with the Houston Symphony. But I don't play an instruent. Unfair!

[High Plains]

73. This whole fucking topic is just plain ridiculous.

Making English the official language is a non-solution to a non-problem. People who emigrate to the US will pick up English sooner or later, or at least their children will.

[radio4progressives]

74. Yeah, that's what the Nazi's say too.

[SaveElmer]

75. I agree with you with a large caveat...

I basically would not have a problem with making English the official language. I think all that intend to move here and become citizens ought to be required to learn english (with government aid if needed).

The problem I have supporting it is that most of the groups supporting this all seem to have an undertone, or blatant anti-immigrant, racist agenda.

I am all for immigration, I think those that are here illegally now are here because they felt they had to to survive, and that the U.S. is largely to blame for their condition. But I think if you are going to become a citizen there are certain things that need to be done to become so - learning english is one of them.

I think the government should aid in programs so folks become fluent, and bi-lingual education is fine as long as it is only being used until students can learn english well enough to get their schooling in it.

[salin]

76. I think the issue is what that *means* beyond symbolism.

Do local govts stop providing any information in any language but English because English is the Official language? Is there no longer any need to have access to translators for certain official services? Are legal residents and citizens who have not yet mastered the language disenfranchised until English mastery is required?

I think that for many folks who find the "English as the Official Language" movement of concern - it is not understanding what that will mean per the Government, and thus for those individual who do not yet speak English. As a symbolic gesture - sure why not. But since when to the same folks who push policies that seem to (policywise) favor some groups (esp based on wealth) over others have intentions that are merely symbolic.