I agree with Mary Cheney. So flame away if you must.

[rhett o rick]

What Edwards said during the debate was undemocratic and uncalled for. It came across as a horrible attempt at being Rovian. If he wanted to embarrass Cheney, he should have done so regarding the stupid war, inexcusable torture, war profiteering, etc. But leave his family out of it. I would rather he said, “Mr. Cheney, I know you don’t hate all gays so why would you use gay bashing for political purposes?”.

Furthermore, I am ashamed of the hatred spewed forth here toward Mary. I thought spewing hatred was solely a republican trait. What has Mary done to justify such hate? Defend her father? How can you hold that against her? I think hatred is a horrible thing and should be left to the low-lifers. Having said that, there are those that I admit I hate, like Hitler, Stalin, Rove, Cheney, and Scotty McLellan. Just kidding about poor Scotty. How can anyone hate a sycophant?

Flame away if you will but please stop the hate slinging.

[WobbliesUnite]

1. I stand with you

Kerry and Edwards were idiots for trying such a lame stunt during the campaign. I thought they were above that kind of crap.

[BillZBubb]

11. You stand in a very short line.

Mary Cheney is a turd.

[regnaD kciN]

19. And that line heads straight...

...to here.

:grr:

[Warren Stupidity]

21. don't go there. nt.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WobbliesUnite]

23. Opinions are like ani

[WobbliesUnite]

27. I take it you stand in a lot of long lines.

[radfringe]

44. LET'S SET THE RECORD "STRAIGHT"

lets set this "straight" - neither Kerry or Edwards "OUTED" Mary

PLEASE NOTE THE DATE ON THE FOLLOWING Article

Lieberman, Cheney spar over tax cuts, budget surpluses
By Brigitte Greenberg, Associated Press, 10/05/00
http://graphics.boston.com/news/ ...bate_lead.shtml

---snip----

When the subject turned to legalized gay marriage, the rivals responded gingerly. Lieberman said "my mind is open" though he wants to preserve the institution of heterosexual marriage.

Cheney, who has an openly gay daughter, said people should be open-minded and tolerant of gays but the issue of gay marriage is "not a slam dunk." He said it was appropriate for states to regulate marriage. "I think different states are likely to come to different conclusions."

[smtpgirl]

102. I'll second your comment, I hope that bitch has

all of her books end up in a dumpster

[smtpgirl]

103. I'll second your comment, I hope that bitch has

all of her books end up in a dumpster

[MH1]

15. Oh bullshit.

Kerry mentioned in a positive way supporting a point he was making in the debate - and responding directly to Cheney's exploitation of the situation.

The woman was OUT. Her crying that it bothers her to be called a "lesbian" just says she is ashamed of who she is - and DEMEANS other lesbians by suggesting that it is something to be ashamed of. And yet she doesn't mind taking money for playing the role (when she worked for Coors as GLBT liason), and she doesn't mind using it to score political points or promote her book.

Yeah, class act that woman is. And she has the nerve to insult John Kerry's mother?

[WobbliesUnite]

26. Bullshit on your bullshit

Both Kerry and Edwards were using the sexual orientation of their opponents famly member to score political points, or so they thought. It backfired on them.

[MH1]

30. Totally false. Interesting how you've "bought" the spin. n/t

[WobbliesUnite]

45. I didn't by any spin. I saw it with my own eyes

And heard it with my own ears. I knew the instant they did it that it was a cheap, low, political stunt and it backfired. As their lame campaign manager said "she's fair game". That said it all.

I think you may be losing the ability to think objectively about your favorite politial issues. Just sayin'

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ldf]

95. so pointing out the absolute HYPOCRISY of the republicans

is "playing politics"?

i saw and heard the same thing. it was gay positive, and complimentary to the parents of mary cheney for accepting their daughter. the fact that the remarks were absolutely dripping with irony was icing on the cake.

what you call a low blow was just the opposite.

how dare someone point out the absurdity of the republicans claiming "privacy" issues when they would cart all the other homosexuals off to the concentration camps, IF THEY HAD THE POWER. unless it is one of their own, who will help promote their own sick political agenda, of course.

yes, the stench of shit is abundant, but it sure wasn't coming from kerry or edwards.

have you checked the bottom of your own shoes lately?

[rhett o rick]

90. What spin? I wanted Kerry/Edwards to stand up to the Neocons

as much or more than most. But, my opinion (not spin) and the opinion of other democrats i have spoken with, is that the attempt to use Mary's homosexuality for political points was 1) a tactic beneath democrats, and 2) was totally ineffective. One or more of their advisor's should have gotten fired. They missed a great opportunity.

[LittleClarkie]

34. They were pointing out Republican hypocrasy

Now if y'all want to stand by Mary Cheney the hypocrite that's up to you. But that's what Kerry and Edwards were doing. As King said tonight, what did they say exactly that was so bad? One said that the Cheney family was a role model and the other said that Mary was one of God's children. Oh my GOD, the HORROR!!!!!

[GOTV]

77. Vile and Vicious those two are!

[Lerkfish]

35. lol! its amazing what comes across a wire and two tin cans.

I heard the exact comment, and it was not derogatory in anyway.

[GOTV]

76. Aren't they supposed to score political points?

Does anyone have a transcript of the exchanges we're talking about? I mean I saw the debates and those points were so not notable to me that I have no recollection of the details. As far as I remember the references to Mary Cheney were completely in context.

Some here make it sound as if Kerry or Edwards responded to a Cheney comment on tax cuts with an "Oh Yeah? Well YOUR daughter's GAY! So THERE!"

If I didn't actually watch the debate that's the kind of rhetoric I'd think you're talking about.

I'd like to see the text again so someone could explain just what's so reprehensible about refering to a lesbian who'se been out and proud about it.

[karynnj]

83. I saw it and it made no impact at the time

I have a close relative who is gay and would likely have picked it up if I thought it were negative.
The rest of Kerry remark was beautiful. (I think both politicly and personally he would have been better off not to mention Cheney, especially as his voice sounded like he was a bit uncomfortable.)

What I think was bad was that moderator, whose brother was once in a business with Bush asked a Psycological/Biological question, but none on energy or environment in the domestic debate.

[CTyankee]

55. I think it was Kerry's mentioning it at the end of the debate

that seemed to come out of nowhere. I remember at the time thinking "Uh oh" to myself, it just struck a wrong note.

But I could be wrong. Do you have a link to his remark?

[karynnj]

84. No - it was a question on whether you are born gay

[ComerPerro]

70. agree completely

[ClusterFreak]

2. I hear ya, but...

...calling someone a 'son-of-a-bitch' isn't exactly a term of endearment either.

[AtomicKitten]

3. Edwards was pointing out the hypocrisy of the GOP.

Hypocrisy is as hypocrisy does.

Mary Cheney's pretzel logic is something worthy of comment. No need to get your knickers in a twist.

[NoSheep]

78. Agreed.

[JI7]

4. what is uncalled for is Mary Cheney selling out other people's rights

so she can get her inheritance from the corrupt business deals her beast father is involved in.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. Pointing out the hypocrisy of Cheny's personal behavior and

his public behavior: welcoming diversity at home in his family while being part of a political campaign that made discrimination against homosexuals a central issue, is 'undemocratic'. Got it. Great point. Sheesh.

[niyad]

6. exactly HOW was he being undemocratic, for heaven's sake? mary

cheney was merely mentioned--everyone knew she was gay, and it is legitimate to want to know how a person can campaign on the anti-gay republican platform when that person's daughter is openly acknowledged as gay.

sounds like you have been drinking the kool-ade here.

[BillZBubb]

7. Too bad you can't see the forest for the trees.

Mary Cheney is a class A jerk. She's a boob. What no one seems to mention is that Cheney himself in the weeks before the debate mentioned that his daughter was gay. He did that in an attempt to make himself appear not to be a bigot. He opened that door.

Edwards did not go far enough. Surely you don't think he opposes gays? Edwards was trying to make the point that people from all political pursuasions know gay people--even rightard asses like Cheney. Therefore, no party should be using gays as a wedge issue. He wanted to show the hypocrisy of the Republicans on that issue.

Too bad you've bought the propaganda.

[MH1]

17. "Bought?" Hmmm. n/t

[Bridget Burke]

63. Buy it Wholesale....

Peddle it Retail.

[MadMaddie]

8. I think Edwards was trying to point out that she had a loving and

supporting family...what's wrong with that?

Mary Cheney is as bad as Log Cabin Repulicans...she capitlizes while others suffer....she doesn't have to worry about not being able to visit her partner in the hospital because she has the money to jump through hoops and legal paperwork...unlike most middle income gay couples who are hanging on like every other couple in this nation.....

Why is she all of a sudden wanting to talk about being a Lesbian now....why not 4 years ago...8 years ago....

She deserves to be called what she is....she is no friend of the Gay community!

[JuniperLea]

92. Well said.

She's now officially a tool.

[Chevy]

9. Whatever

F@!k her and her whole family. Sorry but those purple heart band-aids by their side was unforgivable.Maybe you should tale your anger out on those who have betrayed America instead.

[Pirate Smile]

10. I think she is a nasty person, just like her mother and father.

Her mother calling John Kerry "a bad man" was more disgusting and outrageous to me then all the other sewage spewed during the 2004 election.

[ComerPerro]

71. The Bushes and the Cheneys are terrible families, I believe

[uppityperson]

12. hi ror, Mr.cheney brought it up a couple wks before the debate.

Edwards was following up on what Cheney had said and Cheney responded rather nicely to the sentiment expressed of having loving family support. As far as hatred towards Mary, I don't know her, don't hate her, won't post in "be nasty to her" threads, don't agree with her venom towards Edwards "total slime" or Kerry "son of a bitch" about it either. I won't be nasty to her just because she is nasty, but understand why others might.

[ComerPerro]

72. Exactly, Cheney brought it up first

[LittleClarkie]

13. Since when hasn't this place expressed vitrol?

For Cheney, Bush, Hannity, Rush, O'Reilly, Rove, Kerry, Hillary, Clark... oh the list goes on.

Which message board are you talking about? 'Cause it ain't THIS one.

[Old and In the Way]

14. It's the hypocrisy.

Homosexuality is red meat to the Republican conservative base. They (Kerry, Edwards)made no value judgements regarding Mary's orientation, they simply wanted Cheney to explain his Party's position. Why should anyone who who benefits from anti-gay political positions not be asked to explain the contradiction that exists in their personal life?

Mary is just another hypocrit to be alligned with the political patrty that hates her. But I'm sure, like her father, she'll benefit financially from the association.

[zulchzulu]

16. Mary Cheney is an apologist for her hateful parents and Chimpy

Did she mention how she wasn't allowed to be on stage for the GOP Hatefest Convention? Um...no... Did she mention how the GOP uses homophobia to fuel its agenda? Um...no.

Kerry and Edwards BOTH treated Mary Cheney's well-known sexual preference with respect and pointed out the hypocrisy of the GOP.

If anything, I feel sorry for Mary being so fooled or frankly dishonest about what is really going on.

[Erika]

18. Mary. You finally showed up

Of course it was to promote your book and rake in the $. You were out there loud and strong about being gay in the 2000 election, and W talked to the Log Cabin GOP. But Mary, you disappeared in 2004. The religious right wanted you to be quiet and you were. You, Mary, are a political whore who let down the gay movement when they needed you the most.

To make it worse, you slammed Kerry and Edwards for acknowledging your orientation after you campaigned on it in 2000. Mary, you're a slut in every definition. I'm sure Heather deserves you. Hitler and Eva were a couple also.

[smtpgirl]

104. My sentiments exactly Erika

Couldn't have said it better.

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY, AND lest we forget Mary works at AOL, that should tell you something.

AOL and their STEALTH CUSTOMER RETENTION PRACTICES.

AOL SUCKS

[sam sarrha]

20. nowhere in the bible does it say marriage is between a man and 'a' woman

there is lots of places it it says men can have 'Wives'.. and can beat them and kill them.. take them against their will, make a slave a wife..

but there is no such rule in the bible as one man and one woman.. much to the contrary

i really dont want the arcane laws from 3000 or 4000 year old nomadic goat herders to rule me or my society.. that is just STUPID.

[Erika]

25. Yeah and God turns women into salt pillars

Thanks for the laugh of the night.

[ComerPerro]

73. Marriage = 1 man and 1-100 women

thats biblical marriage

[rpannier]

22. She has defended scrubbie, she represents Coors brewery

It's that easy to 'spew hatred' towards her. She's a rotten little troll. She's a sell-out to homosexuals everywhere.
There is no hate slinging. That exists only in your mind and the minds of her apologists.

[Old and In the Way]

24. "please stop the hate slinging"

Gee, lets buy into the RNC/MSM storyline about the "hate and vitriol" on the left.

[Erika]

29. A political slut is just that

She pimped herself as a GOP loving gay during 2000 and then turned silent in the RR vote in 2004. She's a political whore. Hate has nothing to do with it, never did. Now she's pimping herself for her book. So?

[globalvillage]

31. Mary Cheney wasn't 'just' a family member.

Mary Cheney was the director of vice presidential operations for the Bush-Cheney 2004 Presidential re-election campaign.

Now, she's just a joke.

John Kerry and John Edwards did not lie about Mary Cheney. They didn't say anything remotely offensive about her. For those who don't recall, here's a reminder of what was said when Senator Kerry was pointedly asked by Bob Schieffer during the third presidential debate (which Kerry nailed, by the way), if homosexuality is a choice.

"We're all God's children, Bob, and I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was. She's being who she was born as. I think if you talk to anybody, it's not a choice."

Damn that Kerry for being so...compassionate?

Of course, the fact that Mary Cheney calls Senator Kerry a "son of a bitch" and John Edwards "total slime" in her book says a lot about who she is and to what lengths she is willing to go to advance her agenda, whatever that might be. And that has nothing to do with her being a lesbian. It has to do with her being a bitch.

on edit, and her mother, too.

[CTyankee]

57. It was the parenthetical part of Kerry's statement that bothered me

He could still have said that gays were God's children just as everyone else is. The problem is not that Mary is indeed gay, etc. The problem is bringing in one person as a personification of gay people. I was uncomfortable with him saying it and thought it was a mistake.

I love John Kerry but I had the distinct feeling that in that instance he was saying something his political advisors told him to say. It looked like a dig at the Cheney family. Of course, they deserve it, but it put Kerry and the dems on the defensive.

[karynnj]

85. I agree - and having heard the replay the next several days

During the main part of Kerry's answer, which does sound like him - and is very caring, kind and considerate, Kerry's voice sounded as rich and full as it normally did. He sounded a bit uncomfortable with the Cheney phrase.

[emulatorloo]

32. DAMN JOHN KERRY FOR SAYING MARY WAS ONE OF GOD'S CHILDREN

When clearly she is the spawn of Satan.


"We're all God's children, Bob, and I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was. She's being who she was born as. I think if you talk to anybody, it's not a choice."

[tsuki]

33. Isn't Mary Cheney collecting a big fat paycheck off the backs of

working Americans? Feathering her own nest? I have no respect for her. Backing a corrupt regime that demonizes American citizens for not being conformist. Cheney Mary Cheney.

[ComerPerro]

74. and, you know, its ok to be gay if you're Mary Cheney

but that's the only time its ok.

[smtpgirl]

105. I guess some people here think this is spewing hate, but

A sell out it a sell out. I am not a conformist, I just want to do what is right, and what Mary Cheney did, AIN'T RIGHT.

[agincourt]

36. Gay bashing is entirely a GOP wedge issue,

The GOP has punched it's ticket on gay bashing, abortion, and mixing politics with religion. Mary Cheney knows this, her fabricated outrage is entirely political. She should be ignored. Kerry and Edwards done nothing wrong. Bottom line.

[sampsonblk]

37. He shoulda never brought it up

I don't know or care what she has said recently. She obviously has some issues. But that was really BAD form to bring her up in the campaign as a way to make a point and gain votes. It looked just as stupid as it was. Scumbag sorta thing to do.

[emulatorloo]

38. DAMN JOHN KERRY FOR SAYING MARY WAS ONE OF GOD'S CHILDREN

When clearly she is the spawn of Satan.

[beyurslf]

39. I have nothing nice to say about queers who help convince people to

vote for the party that hates them. Nothing good at all. It is disgusting. It is shameful. A queer person has NO REASON AT ALL to vote for GWB. He uses people's hatred of us to get votes for himself. She should be ashamed.

[WhiteTara]

40. she is a sell out

I don't hate her, but I do find her repugnant.

[Sugarcoated]

41. I understand she feels she has to defend her father

but there's something about it that is disturbing, does she really believe what she's saying? Or is it loyalty? It's just creepy. And I have to say, Kerry & Edwards weren't in the wrong with what they said but they did it so gracelessly, so clumsily.

[Skittles]

42. BULLSHIT

cowardly, hypocritical DESPICABLE PIECES OF SHIT like Cheney AND HIS DAUGHTER deserve to be called out on - people like them NEED TO BE OUTED

[Solo_in_MD]

43. Her sexual orientation should not even be an issue

Both slides slagged each other during the campaign over many issues and it has not stopped No surprises there.

A daughter (gay or otherwise) supports her father who is accepting of her. No surprises there.

That some people here feel that gays, minorities, labor, etc could not possible support a republican without being some sort of soulless degenerate. No surprise there.

However its an attitude that is starting to cost the Democratic Party more and more each election and needs to be turned around. Minorities are starting to infuse into the mainstream and take on a diverse set of views and move away from uniform orthodoxy. If we want to keep them in our tent we need to stop taking them for granted. An example would be the Pink Pistols.

[Warren Stupidity]

47. The GOP made overt discrimination against homosexuals

a key part of their campaign. Get a damn clue.

This was not 'both sides slagging each other'. In fact the 'slagging' was pretty much all coming from one side. But you are right, for certain pointing out the blatent hypocrisy of Cheney's personal position on the sexual orientation of his daughter compared to his public political position on overt discrimination against homosexuals should not have been an issue, as it is an outrage that one politicial party has made a constitutional amendment explicitly denying human rights to homosexuals a major part of their agenda. However they have done this, they have crossed the line, and of course they should be called to task on this at every opportunity.

[union_maid]

46. She was enabling the scapegoating of gays

Her father's party, which she was working for, was bringing people to the polls with initiatives limiting gay rights. Not only marriage, but rights that had already been established in some cases. Her father's administration has had an ample chance to change the Supreme Court so that no one can be sure what future decisions might be in cases like Lawrence v Texas if one should be brought again. She worked for a party that was encouraging hatred of gays and fear of a "gay agenda" in order to get votes from the haters. That's slime. What Edwards and Kerry did was mild.

[terrya]

48. Nope. I don't agree with you.

Sorry. She's openly lesbian. She was liaison for Coors Beer to the GLBT community. The White House knew she's gay, the Bush/Cheney campaign knew she's gay, her family knew she's gay. It's not like it was a deep, dark secret.

The fact that she was liaison to the GLBT community for Coors suggests some semblance of interest in working with our community. So, she's not blind to us GLBT people or our concerns.

But she's been remarkably silent about this administration and its aggressive anti-gay agenda. The President she thinks is a "very good man" has pushed for an anti-gay amendment to the Constitution. This President is in tune with the wants of the religious right which is indeed hostile to the GLBT community.

And what does Mary do? Nothing. Hell, the White House gave her a chance to speak out against the "Marriage Protection Amendment" and she refused.

So, I'm afraid I can't join you. I don't have one iota of sympathy for her. I despise her and consider her a traitor to the gay community. She knowingly worked for Bush/Cheney 2004. And she knew what this administration is all about with respect to our community. And that says it all.

[smtpgirl]

108. Yep, Mary was "slagging" for her book advance and book sales

That's all it is, nothing more. The thread-starter took the bait, now we will be branded "the hate & vitriol" crowd.

I am gay, and I can't stand this FAKE BITCH

[devinsgram]

49. My aren't we the perfect one.

[Vickers]

50. It's not that she's GAY. It's that she's a HYPOCRITE.

But hey, I bet you knew that, huh? :eyes:

[Vinca]

51. I have zero respect for a lesbian woman who would

support the policies of the Bush regime.

[sendero]

52. I have to admit..

... I don't exactly agree with her, but when Kerry made that comment near the end of the debate (or speech?), I caught my breath. After reflection, intellectually I saw nothing wrong with it, but viscerally I did.

I know what he was trying to say, and I of course agree with him. But he said it the wrong way, a problem throughout his campaign. He depended on Americans to connect the dots in a way they are not necessarily, in large numbers, able to do.

It was a mistake. It was not the sort of mistake that makes one a "son of a bitch", but it was a mistake.

[seabeyond]

53. while i agree kerry/edwards attempts were rovian, i dont feel sorry

for mary. they played it for all it is worth. they were a gigglin and in joy that these two made this attempt. i think it is a lesson learned for our democrats, not even our leaders. we are not the type of people that can get in the gutter with repugs. so often people kept saying, do the same the repugs are doing. doesnt work. it just didnt not fit well with men like kerry/edwards, they are too clean to be able to behave like that and is just awkward. and media wont allow it. so dispel the notion we can be ugly like repugs, we cannot

mary on the other hand and her mother are playing the game for all it is worth and i dont have any sympathy. and i am a person that thinks of kindness and hte other. amry doesnt qualify. to have a cheney tell me how he is family value,..... and then all he and family show of themselves over the years forget it.

mary isnt the innocent

[OzarkDem]

54. Edwards and Kerry were right

Mary is wrong.

This must be Rove's week to stir up gays against Dems. Its all over the news media and DU.

Like religious fundies, its hard to reason with people who place so much emphasis on ideology. The GOP knows this and manipulates them with ease. Unfortunately, like the religious fundies, many gays appear to be willing to vote against their own best interests.

[PA Democrat]

56. I might have half an ounce of sympathy for poor exploited Mary Cheney

if she had showed half as much indignation over the "undemocratic and uncalled for" gay bashing remarks that have been made by members of HER party. Rick "Man-on-Dog" Santorum comes to mind. Mary Cheney had NO problem with Santorum equating her sexual activity with bestiality.

But her silence shows that for Mary Cheney, like her filthy father, it's all about personal gain and SCREW everyone else. She is despicable.

[ComerPerro]

75. maybe she is into beastiality?

her silence on Santorum's comments is very telling...

[erpowers]

58. Context of the Debate

If I have my facts straight and I think I do Edwards mentioned Cheney's daugther being gay in the context of the debate. I think Edwards had been asked a question about gay marriage. Edwards could not have been trying to embarrass Cheney in that everyone knew that Cheney had a gay daugther. I think Cheney, his daugther, and the Bush campaign realized they could use Edwards' good hearted answer against him and the Democrats. Cheney was not at all surprised at what Edwards said Cheney just decided to pretend that he did not like what Edwards said. That happens to be why Mary Cheney is getting so much anger directed against her.

[Norquist Nemesis]

60. Nope. Sorry. Mary Cheney is a top operative

That's not Edward's or Kerry's fault. This morning, I heard a clip of her interview. She was answering a question/commenting about John Kerry's statments that are in her book. In true Daddy's girl manner, she puts 9/11 and 'in a time of war' at the front of the response and ends it with she deosn't care because "He'll probably change his mind".

She's politics through and through.

[Virginia Dare]

61. Nope, sorry can't agree

they had to be called on the blatant hypocrisy. Mary Cheney has made very good money through Daddy's connections by being an openly gay consultant for Coors Beer company, which in turn has poured a ton of money into GOP coffers, who in turn use that money to stifle the rights of gay Americans, using it as a major wedge issue in both national and local elections.

I think there were many Americans out there who were surprised to learn that the Cheney's had a gay daughter, whom they supported. How do you think the GOP would have handled Gephardt's similar situation?

BULLSHIT had to be called, and I agreed with it.

[saltpoint]

62. Mary Cheney is promoting her damn book. Public conflict will help

promote sales. She called Kerry "a son of a bitch" and tells us she mouthed the words "Go fuck yourself" to Edwards as she watched him debate her father.

Even if you allow for the Tricia Nixon Syndrome, Mary Cheney is as brutish and full of herself as her parents.

Fortunately both the Kerry and Edwards camps handled her spiteful tantrum with poise.

[Jade Fox]

97. ding, ding, ding!! We have a winner.

Thank you for pointing this out.

Speaking of the Nixon girls, they were adorable compared to the Bush/Cheney and other Neocon offspring. In Norman Mailer's book "Armies of the Night" he talks about running into the Nixon Girls getting off a hotel elevator, and coming to the conclusion that any father who helped raise such obviously well-bred young women couldn't be all bad.

[saltpoint]

109. Hi, Jade Fox. I'm tardy with this response, but appreciate your

reply & also appreciate the Mailer reference in your post.

It's odd how a couple of decades can change public perception of presidents' kids. The Bush twins are a wild duo compared with other presidents' brood.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

64. So Cheney can use his daughter but his opponents can't

So the Cheneys can use their daughter for political purposes but not their opponents.
O.K., got it:

Well, the question has come up obviously in the past with respect to the question of gay marriage. Lynne and I have a gay daughter, so it's an issue that our family is very familiar with. We have two daughters, and we have enormous pride in both of them. They're both fine young women. They do a superb job, frankly, of supporting us. And we are blessed with both our daughters....

Remarks by the Vice President and Mrs. Cheney at Town Hall Meeting- Davenport, Iowa August 24, 2004

[niyad]

65. just as a matter of curiousity, you DO know that the debates were over

a year and a half ago, right? so why the sudden, tender concern for mary for something that happened in 2004? or is it because she is sudeenly visible again, hawking her book?

you really must stop drinking the kool-ade, it is very bad for your sanity.

[alcibiades_mystery]

67. Oh

Fuck YOU, douchebag.

[rhett o rick]

81. It's so nice to have an intellectual dialog with you.

Are you sure you're not a republican?

[alcibiades_mystery]

82. Quite sure

And you call your first post intellectual? :rofl:

[rhett o rick]

87. No, I don't claim or pretend to be an intellectual. nm

[Imagevision]

68. Mary Cheney is what Laura is to Bush, when the goin gets tough, send out

the women to try and turn public opinion around especially with Both Cheney/Bush numbers tanking!
My father is a warm and wonderful Dad? ...heavy sigh....! (he's an assh*le!!!!

[ComerPerro]

69. Here's the problem with Mary Cheney, quite simply

First off, she is in no way a hero, and she is in no way courageous.

Secondly, by using that type of language toward a political rival while on the record is just in poor taste, to say the least, and reveals her terrible character. If you want to dispute that, give me an example of Edwards or Kerry telling someone to fuck off.

Third, lets examine Mary Cheney for a minute. She is a lesbian and embraces a party that is very radically anti-gay, and campaigned on anti-gay issues. Therefore, she is not only a hypocrite, but she also has the audacity to support a party that judges others for living a lifestyle like her own.

Fourth, if Mary Cheney is so upset by Kerry and Edwards using her sexual orientation for political gain, why doesn't she just do what her party's base recommends?

Why doesn't she just make herself "un-gay".

After all, according to Mary Cheney's party, homosexuality is a choice (and an immoral choice, at that).


So if she is so bothered by this and so upset, she has two choices.

She can either choose to be straight, or she can choose to open her damn eyes and start lashing out against the people who are actually actively trying to oppress her.

[kiraboo]

79. I think it's a question of motivation.

I think Keryy mentioned her sexuality to make a point, plain and simple. And that was the wrong thing to do, even in an attempt to point out the hypocrisy on the right. It doesn't matter that he called Ms. Cheney "...one of God's children..." because he was USING her sexuality to score a political point. On the other hand, Mary Cheney's comments about Kerry are clearly politically motivated as well and show an utter lack of compassion for her GLB brothers and sisters. It's a selfish act committed by a selfish person and should be derided as such.

IMO, they both screwed up. End of story.

[Cha]

100. Yeah, but who "screwed up" more?

So, it's not the end of the story.

[rhett o rick]

80. Thank you for being so gentle. Well, except no. 67 who must have

anger issues.

Please don't get me wrong, I don't have any love for Mary Cheney. The point I was trying to make (i admit rather badly) was that I very badly wanted Kerry/Edwards to BLAST Bush/Cheney re. their hypocrisy regarding the gay rights issue. But at the time I thought they made a huge mistake in making it personal. It detracted from the issue. As much as we maybe tempted to lower our standards and get Rovian, we need to resist. If we lower our standards to that of our enemy, we become or enemy.

And those of you that called ME a "repug" because I dared express an opinion different than yours, you should look in the mirror. I hope you don't think that we democrats should follow our party leaders in lock-step like the repugs? Diverse opinions are what separate us from the apes and Neocons.
Peace and vigilance.

[booley]

86. What did Edwards say that was so horrible?

I watched the VP debate and what I heard was Edwards saying that Cheney loved his daughter and that he shouldn't be endorsing policies that made his daughter a second class citizen.

Did I miss something? Did I blink? What precisely did Edwards say that was so horrible? Isn't a father supposed to love his daughter? Arent' parents expected to try to make the world a better place for thier children?

[rhett o rick]

88. Didn't say horrible.

I watched too. When Edwards made his statement about Cheney's daughter I cringed. He had an opportunity to blast Cheney for hypocrisy on the gay issue and he blew it. It came across to me, and I am on his side, as a weak attempt to embarrass Cheney. I know it was common knowledge, but to use Mary's homosexuality was uncalled for and ineffective. So what if Cheney used her homosexuality for his gain. That is "their" type of tactics. I hope we are above that. Don't think I am soft on Cheney, i am not. I wish Edwards would have called him straight out as the liar, hypocrite, profiteer, etc. that he is.

[MH1]

89. You said you agreed with her, and she did. nt

[rhett o rick]

91. Thank you. That was wrong of me to put it that way.

I thought it was crass and beneath them. As i have stated elsewhere in here, i also thought it was ineffective.

[wiley]

93. So edit or delete your inflammatory post

That would be the polite thing to do.

[rhett o rick]

96. Sorry if the post was inflamitory. Too late to edit. nm

[mtnsnake]

94. Why are you making this Edwards's baggage? She didn't call HIM a SOB

I thought she called Kerry a son of a bitch, according to that other thread that was here on DU a couple days ago.

If anything, Edwards's comments were extremely tactful. Even the repukes felt that way after he and pukeface Cheney had their debate which included their little discussion about sexuality.

It was Kerry's comment during his debate that came off as a political stunt. In the question posed to him about homosexuality, there was no reason for him to bring up the fact that Cheney's daughter was a lesbian. It was as if he was reminding everyone in the country that Cheney's daughter was in fact just that. The way he emphasized the word "lesbian", in the context that he did it, was one of the most embarrassing moments of the campaign.

[karynnj]

107. Cheney's comments on Edwards were as just as negative

I think that he was a sleasy lawyer. Both comments weren't smart - though neither said any thing negative.

[liberalpragmatist]

98. Would it have been a big deal if she were a disabled daughter?

If the Vice President were backing legislation aimed at overturning the Americans With Disabilities Act and also had a handicapped son or daughter, would the reaction have been the same? People seemed shocked because they saw a gay or lesbian daughter as something to hide and pretend didn't exist.

Now, I agree the move was politically stupid. Hell, given that the race was a pretty close one, that itself could have lost Kerry the election. But I don't really see how it was so uncalled for for Kerry and Edwards to mention it.

[acmavm]

99. Amazing. It was no secret that she was a lesbian. Even I knew it and I

don't pay a lot of attention to the personal lives of people I don't know. Unless they use it to cash in on or they're being prosecuted. Well she was as 'out' as you can get. Then her daddy started pimping her sexual lifestyle. Trying to cash in on it. And she went along with it, she laid down for the bush**/cheney ticket so to speak.

Her and daddy made her sexuality an issue. No dem spoke of her disparagingly. But they could have. Could have called her on HER hypocrisy. But they didn't. THEY SHOULD HAVE. But they didn't.

[TNMOM]

101. I disagree. The only people I know who thought

it was "dirty tricks" for Kerry to say what he did were hard-core republicans with shitferbrains. They were the ones who, day after day, week after week, bashed the democratic ticket for being "pro gay" at the water cooler at work. But as soon as it was pointed out that Cheney's lesbian daughter (gasp!) is also a child of God -- horror of horrors, the water cooler talk turned to protecting Mary's privacy. Right, like those bigots cared about gay rights.

I don't feel sorry for Mary. Anyone who thinks her sexual orientation is not political is deluded.

[lumberjack_jeff]

106. The topic is fair game

Transparent or not, it was no more out-of-bounds than team Bush's attempts to paint Kerry as a rich elitist. An attempt to try to get Cheney to 'splain how he could be so judgemental and indifferent to gays even while harming his own daughter in the bargain is fair play.

Using Teresa's wealth as a tool to portray Kerry as a hypocrite was an effective tool. Using Mary as a tool to paint Cheney as heartless jackass was too.

I agree with Malcom X. We must retake power by whatever means necessary.

I have a simple question. Did you still vote for Kerry despite your perception of foul play? If so, it was good tactics.

Anything that gets votes is good. Politics is different than policy.