Worse than Dubai - CHINA:Guardian of US PORT Nuclear Security

[autorank]

A Chinese company, Hutchison Whampoa will inspect cargo ships headed for the USA to detect nuclear material
and assure the safety of US ports. This is the first time a foreign company has done this. The contract was awarded without
a bidding process. NY Rep. Peter King, Chairman of the Homeland Security Committee could not be reached for comment.

“A previously declassified US intelligence report has stated “Hutchison Whampoa’s owner, Hong Kong tycoon
Li Ka-shing, has extensive business ties in Beijing and has compelling financial reasons to maintain a good relationship with
China’s leadership.”

Who are we dealing with?

Top Chinese general threatens to go nuclear with United States

July 14 2005 20:59
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/28cfe55a-f4a7-11d9-9dd1-00000e2511c8.html

China is prepared to use nuclear weapons against the US if it is attacked by Washington during a confrontation over Taiwan,
a Chinese general said on Thursday.“If the Americans draw their missiles and position-guided ammunition on
to the target zone on China's territory, I think we will have to respond with nuclear weapons,” said General Zhu Chenghu.

Gen Zhu was speaking at a function for foreign journalists organized, in part, by the Chinese government. He added that
China's definition of its territory included warships and aircraft.

“If the Americans are determined to interfere we will be determined to respond,” said Gen Zhu, who is also a professor
at China's National Defense University.“We . . . will prepare ourselves for the destruction of all of the cities east of Xian.
Of course the Americans will have to be prepared that hundreds . . . of cities will be destroyed by the Chinese.”

China loves to spy on us and give to our politicians

"Over a 20-year period, China has stolen secret data on every weapon currently deployed
in the U.S. nuclear arsenal and is most likely still doing so despite tighter security measures
imposed at nuclear labs since last fall, a long-awaited congressional report said Tuesday."
(Summary of Clinton Administration Report on Chinese Espionage)

China kept the intelligence plane they shot down in 2001. They feasted on all that intelligence.
Wonder what that got them? A pre 911 deal.

Feb. 21, 2005. Ning Wen and his wife were arrested last fall at their home office in Manitowoc, Wis., for allegedly sending their native
China $500,000 worth of computer parts that could enhance missile systems.

But isn’t China moving toward democracy?

Massacre Tiananmen Square with wounded rushed to hospital on carts


Student blocking tanks

Ask the citizens of Tibet about their democracy.

“…over 17 percent of the Tibetan people killed, and 6,000 monasteries ruined.
Ask the citizens of Hong Kong about their democracy. They have none!

Ask the millions of peaceful members of China’s http://clearwisdom.net/emh/special_column/death_cases/death_list.html
">Falun Gong religion

2846 practitioners have been verified as being tortured to death in over 30 provinces
6,000 Falun Gong practitioners who have been illegally sentenced to prison
100’s of Thousands of practitioners have been forcefully sent to psychiatric hospitals to be tortured


Police brutality against Falun Gong demonstrators ends in death.
Some “emerging democracy” that China is.

Now, don’t you feel much better that President Bush
awarded a no-bid contract to a Chinese company beholden
to the Chinese government.

It’s a no-brainer.

[Daphne08]

1. We shouldn't even be borrowing money from them, much less

giving one of their company's control of our security.

Sorry, but I remember too much about Red China!

[autorank]

3. Right, they steal our nuclear secrets so we put them in business to

protect us from nuclear terror. What's that about?

[reprehensor]

2. Ah, globalism.

What a treat.

[autorank]

4. Makes it easier for them to "import" our nuclear defense programs. n/t

None of that messy espionage.

This is worse than Dubai!!!

[Minnesota Libra]

5. OMG, all I can say is we are ..cked Could it be that .......

...Bush knew all along if Dubai didn't get the ports deal the Chinese would?? Could this be why he pushed so hard for Dubai?? In other words we were getting f*&ked no matter which way we went. :wow: :scared:

[autorank]

8. Broken leg or broken arm? Mono or Lyme?

Nice deal isn't it.

Why isn't there the outrage now. Could it be some Chinese money floating
around our political system? How could I raise such a question. :evilgrin:

[madrchsod]

6. i`ll be

on the wrong side of the grass when the war starts..it`s going to be shit for my kids and grand kids though....
in about 20 years the chinese will have their fire control system and command structure in place to challenge the usa on the high seas and in the missile theater. we know it and they know it...and walmart bucks are paying for it.
we have a president who will sell our future to the highest bidder and tell me why this is not treason?

[autorank]

9. Our only hope is ....

:sarcasm:
Global Warming!!! China will get it much worse than we will. They'll be so pre-occupied dealing with floods, loss of food production, etc., we'll be able to turn the tables. In return for total surrender, we'll give them food, water, and some realliy good production jobs.

This is really depressing, the lack of response on this deal compared to Dubai. They both stink!

[paul_fromatlanta]

7. I have a lot of concerns about China but not port security

Human rights, religious freedom, fair trade, currency manipulation, Tibet, Taiwan and so on...


But not port security.
If they wanted to nuke us they could just launch a missile but we are their biggest customer by far.

[mod mom]

10. It is beyond comprehension! nt

[stellanoir]

11. And meanwhile they own

60% percent of our treasury bills. Do I sense a set up?

Oh no. Never mind I'm just a conspiracy theorist who thinks our last three elections have been faked.

Move along, nothing to see here. e-gads

[autorank]

12. Put that hat back on, you're short of foil;)

This is a great day for democracy and multi-national efforts. We're following our
spiritual path and reaching out to those who would enslave us, giving them a hand
up and, our secret plan, getting them ready for democracy.

Actually, here's the question:

What's the difference between Chinese governance and
Bush governance?

[understandinglife]

13. Recommended. You better believe their guarding them; they own them.

Just protecting their vast equity holdings in everything American.


Be The Bu$h Opposition - 24/7

[lwesty]

14. sounds like a bait and switch to me n/t

[autorank]

15. Right, we jump on Dubai, then they give us China...but it's an Engnlish

name and in Hong Kong. Major "deception" here.

Where's the outrage? China is much more of a threat than Dubai. China has been
spying on us for a long time. They want nuclear materials, technology,etc.

Amazing.

[CamanoCal]

16. Think Neil Bush and Grace

Grace and Neil are in bed with one another (well, that is, when Neil isn't in one with a Chinese Prostitute anyway)

Grace semiconductor company is a Shanghai-based company that was co-founded by Jiang Mianheng, the son of former Chinese President Jiang Zemin.

You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours!

[autorank]

17. The web of deceptoin never ceases to function in its own interest.

They do take care of themselves. I love all those educational software sales bu Neal's company -- to Saudi Arabia. I wonder if the software can be adapted for the hate filled course of study they use.

"Ignote" Wahabi...it will make your blood boil and yuor brain shut off.

[Sensitivity]

18. Hope this is just a "FRAMING" statement for political spin.

Otherwise if shows a scary lack of knowledge of the realities of the modern global supply chain security.

[autorank]

19. No "framing" here (decadent rhetorical device, btw). China is a rogue

state. Their idea of diplomacy is to fire a rocket over the nations with whom they have disputes.
They did this with both Japan and Taiwan.

There is nothing in the post which is inaccurate. China's top General thinks it's OK to threaten
to destroy 1/2 of America IF WE TARGET THEIR SHIPS OR MAINLAND. Since you are knowledgeable about
international security, you know that competitors, so to speak, target each other. The US and
Soviets were open about this. But not this General. He's a nut case but close to power. This
is how they operate. They show the same signs of mental instability that * does.

The Chinese domestic behavior indicates what they would do, were they able, to their opponents.
Genocide for Tibet. Persecution for Falun Gong. Smashing demonstrations. Child slave labor...11%
of the 11-14 year olds in China, in the 10's of millions, are engaged in slave labor.

Oh, and China has targeted the USA for nuclear espionage. Just a minor fact.

All this adds up to letting them do our security, sure.

THIS IS AS ABSURD AS LETTING THE 911 BANKERS RUN OUR PORTS.[br />
"Framing" is a sign of weakness in position. There is no frame needed, the facts do quite
nicely here.

[Sensitivity]

22. Do you realize that the leading Global Shipping Security enitiy working

in collaboration with the U.S. National security agencies and the military is
the Hutchison/Savi Joint Venture called Savi Networks? What are the alternatives?
Their is no U.S. maritime company with the capabilities and other entity in the world with the resources technology and experience.

Please explain what alternatives you know exist to proceed with improving U.S. sea port
security that does not involve a company based one of the major global trading ports of
China, Singapore (heavily chineese influenced), or the UAE.

I am not against using for political purposes the irony of Bush's total dependence of other countries for our security even as he acts like some cowboy.
But, we Democrats have to make some effort to take note of the opinions of serious security professionals and avoid baseless positioning.

[autorank]

23. We are not bereft of talent in this country, particularly in defense.

We have a military budget the equal of all other nations in the world combined. We have some
of our best and brightest engineers etc. in defense. It pays very well and it is cutting
edge if you like to have unlimited budgets, practically, and make your mark. Plus there
is the job security of "defense."

Now, given that, there are pieces of port security in this country already plus the ability to
formulate an entity, American owned and controlled, to do nuclear port security.

The alternative is to have this Chinese company with close ties to the Chinese government do it.

My alternative is to STOP letting nations who spy on us, who are hostile to us, and who shoot
rockets over countries with whom they are negotiating ... to STOP doing business vital to our
national security with these companies.

It's the equivalent of the police letting organized crime take over the neighborhood around police
stations because organized crime knows how to keep a neighborhood quiet.

Sorry, there is NO argument for letting the Chinese "secure" and spy on our ports.

[Sensitivity]

25. Only major U.S. terminals company -- SAA Marine -- is up for SALE

Please give some specific alternatives based of facts.
Relevant technology developments have really occured over the last 10 years.
There are but a few entities with relevant experience. Please specify
your proposal.

I really worry about the type of rhetoric being used here. We are on our way
to victory in November and don't need to engage on issues we don't know how to
address.

[autorank]

26. My position is not rhetorical, it's reality based. China is our enemy!

And the act like an enemy. China: threatens to hit us with nuclear weapons for actions they and
any other nuclear power take against competitors or enemies; forced down our plane in internaitonal air space and keepk it for three months; spies on us for military and commercial technology, plans, etc.

Having established a threat from China, I do not have to provide a detailed proposal, as you request. you don't do business with hostile competitors or, in my terminology, enemies.

The alternatives are not my responsibility and I in no way sacrifice my point, NO NUCLEAR SECURITY BUSINESS WITH THE CHINESE, by not having alternatives. That's switching the topic.

To return to my analogy of the police getting the mob to protect the neighborhood around the police station, how rediculous is this: "Well Chief, I can't think of any as qualified as Tony Sopranno to establish or maintain peace in our neighborhood. We've gotta go with him."

Please deal with my argument regardeing China as a threat rather than telling me how terrific this Chinese company is. Would France hire Hitler to do border security?

[Sensitivity]

28. China: 3rd Largest Trade Partner, 2nd Largest Supplier, 2nd only to Japan

in holding treasury bills (loans to U.S.). Interesting "enemy" for us to have.

The most reasonable alternative to more dependence on Chinese firm for Global Terminal operations and security was really to support Dubai Ports World getting a bigger piece of the pie. But that was rejected by the Congress -- as you well know.

If you don't understand that, you don't know the industry.

[autorank]

29. I don't know the industry, I know history. China, Dubai...bad news now,

bad news tomorrow, bad news forever.

Like I said, I don't need an alternative to say that a proposal in unacceptable, UNLESS there is NO alternative. There has to be one, we're a big country, lots of bright people, that's where the alternative lies.

Yes they hold treasury bills. That may argue against the lunatics in their government, China's, who threaten people with nuclear weapons. It may not. Until that's resolved, no deals with them on security...trade, trave, etc., no problem, just not security.

[DemReadingDU]

20. K&R

[hughee99]

21. If this deal falls through, then they'll just have to use

another port. Maybe Long Beach which has terminals operated by the chinese company COSCO (not to be confused with Costco). It also operates the entire US Naval base (now closed, of course) at Long Beach. The repukes were up in arms about both of these things in the late 90's under Clinton, but now will probably remain silent.

I apologize for having to post a link to a Duncan Hunter editorial, but I haven't been able to find out much about this from progressive (objective) news sources.

http://www.house.gov/hunter/jul6-98.htm

For more info, you can search on Cosco, long beach and port.

[autorank]

24. No appologies necessary for hunger...but : Dana Rohrabacher , yes;)

...the surfing reich winger.

I don't know why everyone isn't concerned about this. Is it OK to go after Dubai (which I did) but not China, manifestly a bigger threat and a country with a high placed General threatening to wipe out 1/2 of our country if we just 'target' his f'ing ships (everybody does it, going on for years).

The Chinese government is as screwed up a the * administration. Lord, one * is enough.

[mom cat]

27. Just a side note from Tom Lerher:

THAT WAS THE YEAR THAT WAS
13. Wernher von Braun
And what is it that put America in the forefront of the nuclear nations? And what is it that will make it possible to spend twenty billion dollars of your money to put some clown on the moon? Well, it was good old American know how, that's what, as provided by good old Americans like Dr. Wernher von Braun!*


Gather 'round while I sing you of Wernher von Braun,
A man whose allegiance
Is ruled by expedience.
Call him a Nazi, he won't even frown,
"Ha, Nazi, Schmazi," says Wernher von Braun.

Don't say that he's hypocritical,
Say rather that he's apolitical.
"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun.

Some have harsh words for this man of renown,
But some think our attitude
Should be one of gratitude,
Like the widows and cripples in old London town,
Who owe their large pensions to Wernher von Braun.**

You too may be a big hero,
Once you've learned to count backwards to zero.
"In German oder English I know how to count down,
Und I'm learning Chinese!" says Wernher von Braun.


I thought this last line would help YOU feel more secure too!
http://members.aol.com/quentncree/lehrer/vonbraun.htm