We really need to take a reality check here

[craychek]

Ambermoff, or however you spell his name, bribed members of congress. Now I've been hearing here constantly how no democrats took his money and how it was all republicans. However, I have yet to see any solid evidence that can support this. Honestly, there isn't enough info available to us to determine anyone that was involved except Ney.

If democrats were infact INVOLVED in this, they need to be indicted just like the republicans. I know we want to believe that no democrats took his money, but unfortunately, I don't trust any politican as far as I can throw them and I can see many democrats in power right now yeilding to the power of money. Also people from both sides of the isle recieved money in some way from Ambrmoff, how do we know that they weren't bribes?

I guess all I'm really saying is lets NOT JUMP THE GUN here. Relax a little bit, in a few weeks we'll probably know who was involved and who wasn't. We cannot make assumtions here. Trust me, this thing will get big in the near future and we'll know everything eventually. Meanwhile we must keep other topics alive like the NSA spying, PLAME, etc.

[babylonsister]

1. Whoever is crooked deserves to be punished. Period. I

haven't read anywhere on DU of anyone that thinks otherwise.

[AtomicKitten]

4. absolutely!

We cannot point fingers unless our own house is in order.

[merwin]

2. We already know who was involved.

We've had the info for a LONG time. And according to Franken, there are not any Democrats who have taken money from him... However, there are Democrats who have taken money from groups that Abramoff directed to give money. In that case, there is no reasonable expectation that they even knew Abramoff was involved.

[savemefromdumbya]

3. yes

[politicaholic]

5. Ding! Give that man a giant comb. n/t

[bbinacan]

8. I'm new and could use your guidance. What

kind of site is opensecrets.org? If I read their article correctly, it looks like Democrats may have also gotten money directly from Abramoff. Thanks.

[merwin]

13. I'm sorry, but I have no clue :-)

[brmdp3123]

16. It's reputable.

[craychek]

9. You know...

Al Franken is our version of Bill O'Reilly... well sorta anyways. Again provide a link to a valid source, something to prove that, not just by saying, "Franken Said it so it must be true." Please don't be like the Repugs and take everything pundits say at face value.

[rzemanfl]

11. On behalf of Al Franken, and without his consent, he hereby

challenges you to a wrestling match. Or would if he knew about you.

[merwin]

12. Franken is far from O'Reilly. In any case, I believe it was David Sirota.

Here's his blog:
http://www.davidsirota.com/

He's a regular guest, and I'm sure that the info is somewhere on the blog :-)

[Ladyhawk]

15. Franken is a moderate who uses humor to smooth over problems.

The fact that O'Reilly has no sense of humor is what makes him hate Franken so much. Franken and O'Reilly are worlds apart. Franken actually has fact-checkers. O'Reilly is a pathological liar. The two aren't even close.

If you were going to compare, I'd say Malloy is closer to O'Reilly when it comes to sheer anger and "our side is right" demagoguery. I don't think Malloy is a pathological liar, however. :shrug: Is there anyone on the left who matches some of the right-wing wackos lie for lie?

[merwin]

19. If there was, they would no longer be on the left.

Since lies are not part of our values.

[Vickers]

17. Wow, until you said that, I was almost convinced, but then...

...eh, you know.

[Ladyhawk]

23. LOL...I was thinking the same thing. n/t

[Arkana]

21. Best explanation I've heard yet.

There is a BIG, BIG difference between taking money from Abramoff personally and getting money from an Indian tribe that was a client of his. The Pubes and the media are trying to make them one and the same.

[Jayhawk Lib]

6. Runs Deep

This scandal runs deep. We may end up with some egg on our face also We better not get too ecstatic.

[TheDebbieDee]

7. Think about it.....Abramhoff was involved in influence

peddling and power-brokering. The Dems in Congress haven't had any REAL clout since the early 90s.

What little power they could have wielded would have involved the Dems sticking together.......not gonna happen!

Why would Abramhoff waste money trying to influence people with little or no power as compared to the repub juggernaut that's been running Washington for the last 10 years?

I know this is not proof, but it makes a little sense, doesn't it?

Edited: because 20 years is twice as long as 10 years!

[sandyd921]

22. I think that their strategy

was to spread the money around so that when and if the influence peddling was uncovered, Dems would have egg on their faces too. Of course, as has been pointed out here and elsewhere on DU, the way that Dems got the money was nothing like the direct influence peddling that repukes were up to their chinny chin chins in.

[Inland]

10. I agree that there's reasons not to rush

but whether there's dems who broke the law or not, we've GOT to support the process. Bring it on. Anyone who is so OBVIOUS about quid pro quos that they get convicted needs to go, no matter who.

[sandnsea]

14. Oh yes, let's not jump the gun

Let's let the media run wild with speculation that Democrats were involved. For months and months. Then, when they discover no Democrat was involved, let's bury that tidbit on page 52.

How many times do we let them run this scam before we stop it before it starts? Not jumping the gun means not jumping the gun. We know Delay and Ney were involved for certain, along with Safavian who was already indicted, so what the fuck are we doing talking about Democrats AT ALL.

:banghead:

[MichiganVote]

18. I haven't witnessed the Dem's power in Congress with or without

the tainted $$ of Abramoff and Co. The influence peddling surely was not to put cheaper heat in people's homes, fund education (NCLB), get armor for troops, lower gas prices, fund health care for Americans....its just ridiculous to imagine that Abramoff sought out Dem's for indluence peddling. Could be there are some but I haven't read of any serious contenders. We shall see and if they are dirty, let em' pay same as the usual repub. dirtballs.

[NativeTexan]

20. Byron Dorgan.....

....(D-ND)may be involved, I hear. Something was said on Air America today about it.