Credit card companies to double minimum payments this month...

[OneTwentyoNine]

Well...those nice,caring millionaires at the CC companies are about to enact phase two of their Government give-away bill which allows them to raise minimum payments on their credit cards by 100%. Not a few bucks here or there but DOUBLE the current minimum payment.

Oh... but there reasoning is ROTF laughable...why they want to help consumers get OUT of CC debt. Uhh yeah right,hell maybe the bank that carries the mortage on my house should DOUBLE my house payment.

NO,what they want is a shit load of late payments,missed payments blah blah which carry penalty's and rip off charges that are actually HIGHER interest than the interest on the card itself.

Thanks a shit load BIDEN for enabling these thugs even more than before.

[LynneSin]

1. Well, you know making minimum payments will take about 30 years

to get you out of debt.

And since half the state of delaware either works in the credit card industry or related to one who does - I'd like to thank him too

Lynne
First State DUer

[BlueEyedSon]

3. Cuting the max interest rate in half would have helped consumers too

[lonestarnot]

6. More cowbell! Letters letters letters!

[upi402]

130. i paid mine off when this was passed. eff 'em

[OneTwentyoNine]

8. I don't make minimum payments,many others don't either....

But to double it overnight will place a HELL of a hardship on many people--just watch. I have a few thousand on one CC that I used to build a huge deck last year,I have good credit and pay a zero interest rate. I don't pay the minimum payment,but I can't afford to double it overnight either.

It'll be tough on me at zero interest,this will kill others....

[losdiablosgato]

13. Make some purchases that you would anyway on your card pay them off

Say you buy your gas on out cards and then pay them off every month. You will be paying $200+ a month on your card right there. Do this with you food and it will look like you are paying way over minimums even when you only are.

[LynneSin]

14. It's going to be tough for everyone, myself included

I wanted to take a nice vacation to Italy next year but I'm postponing it until my credit card is paid off and I have the money in my savings account to pay for the trip.

It's gonna be harsh but my years of living the high life need to be paid off in full. I'm thinking a year of sacrifice & savings will get me to my final destination (aka a beach on the Amalfi Coast in Italy)

[OneTwentyoNine]

42. Ok...Your taking responsibility for your debt like millions of others.....

No one is saying that the debt that they incurred shouldn't be paid off but SHIT,you can't do something like doubling payments virtually overnight.

Hell,if your bank pulled that crap on your car payment,home payment etc...

[PassingFair]

70. Enjoy your hair shirt.

The rest of us outside of Delaware preferred to DECIDE FOR OURSELVES how much over minimum we want to pay, in ACCORDANCE WITH THE ORIGINAL AGREEMENTS we entered into.

Many small-business owners FINANCE their businesses with Credit Cards, their income fluctuates month by month. This will hurt them.

[Skittles]

112. won't be tough on me

I would never take a vacation or "live the high life" if it meant I owed money. And yes, I do understand people needing to eat.

[nickinSTL]

137. that's just great

so, since you won't choose for yourself to pay more than the minimum payment, you'd prefer that the credit card companies FORCE you to pay more?

That's just great.

I'm going to be SLAMMED by this, and I don't appreciate it. I always pay a bit above the minimum payments, because it's about all I can afford. Now, I'll have to pay MUCH more, which will be really tough.

I have every intention of paying off the debt I've accrued, but I don't appreciate having my minimum raised. I don't want the credit card companies deciding for me how much I should pay to pay off MY debt.

I've had a rough time financially the last several years (pretty much since Bush took office, oddly enough) due to my fiancee being out of work, but I've never missed a payment, and even at my worst made the minimum payments.

As to this raising, I'll survive, though it'll make things harder on me, but what about those worse off, who are suffering under this $#!^^+ economy? More and more bankruptcies hitting, and more of those in the lower middle class forced into poverty.

Lynnesin, you've been around, so I know better, but you sound like a Repuke in your reasoning here. You like Biden to support the credit card companies because it helps you and your family/friends, and thank him for making the credit card companies force you to take the responsibility you won't yourself to pay off your debt earlier...without considering how those worse off than yourself might be hit. Pretty damn selfish, IMO.

[tx_dem41]

138. As much as you want to....you will hardly ever pay off your debt that..

you accrued by paying the minimum (or even slightly above it). Check out my post #82 for an example.

And, puhleez...don't tell me that financial responsibility is a "Repuke" thing. That's a RW talking point.

[nickinSTL]

141. I'm well aware of how long it'd take...

and when I'm able, I'd pay more...right now, I'm not.

I'm not saying that financial responsibility is a Repuke thing...but wanting the credit card companies to force you to be financially responsible...that sounds like a Repuke thing to me.

[tx_dem41]

142. Just so you know, it was liberal consumer groups such as PIRG

that lobbied for this regulation, in response to the predatory practice of LOWERING minimum payments that CC companies started in the 80s and 90s.

Why do you think that was?

[nickinSTL]

143. I have no idea...

and I don't agree with it at all.

I think a lot of people are going to be hit by this, and hit hard.

[tx_dem41]

144. Well...the CC companies fought it...

and to use a cliche...if they don't like it, then I do.

[BlueEyedSon]

2. Biden (and the other scumbag DE sen) should rot in hell.

[LynneSin]

Thank you - I hope you join them there too

:D

[BlueEyedSon]

12. Awwww, did all the CC companies have a bad quarter???

Charging 29% used to be considered USURY, honey!

[LynneSin]

17. I'm paying it myself

I ran up the debt and I foolish was late of a few payments and I'm blaming them?

No, I'm someone who takes responsibilty for my actions. When I opened the account all that fine print warned me that my lower interest would only be good provided that I pay on time. I ignored it.

So how is that Joe Biden's fault? Did he kidnap me, hide my checkbook and prevented me from sending my payment out on time.

[BlueEyedSon]

20. He is a corporate shill, like many of our elected representatives.

Go look up his campaign contributions and then decide who he is working for.... the people of DE or his paymasters.

[LynneSin]

24. Look at the State of Delaware and check who Delawareans work for

:shrug:

I see no difference between Joe Biden or myself. We probably get paid by the same folks just like most of the other people who live in the state of Delaware.

It's a harsh industry at times but is great for our economy. Do you think we want our jobs going elsewhere or overseas?

[BlueEyedSon]

27. I wouldn't want everyone in the defense or oil industry to suddenly be

out of work, but I would be thrilled for their jobs to suddenly become unecessary. Tommorow. Sorry.

BTW, it's the CEOs and shareholders who are donating to candidates and making out like bandits, not the employees.

[LynneSin]

34. This is no different then explaining why a democrat like Mary Landrieu

supports anything with the oil industry. Her state is the oil industry - why would she want to fuck off the people who work for those companies including the little folks who need those jobs.

Joe Biden doesn't represent you - he represents me. He pisses me off at times but I find no use in replacing him as a senator (I do; however, want someone other than him as my presidential nominee). Just like I have no use of fighting the 69% of Connecticut that approves of Joe Lieberman.

However, I know that only 38% of Pennsylvanians approve of Rick Santorum. He's the enemy we should be fighting in 2006

[BlueEyedSon]

35. Why choose? Let's fight them all!

I have no love for Landrieu either.....

[LynneSin]

44. You live in Louisiana?

hmmm.....

[OzarkDem]

150. Uninsured are charging thousands$$ in medical bills

Many have no alternative if they are seriously ill and uninsured (cancer, etc.) they have to get care and put it on their credit card.

Not everyone with a high credit card balance is irresponsible, just unlucky sometimes.

[tx_dem41]

4. Most consumer groups supported this bill.

Lesson....except for the case of long-term job loss or sudden medical bills, don't use a credit card if you are worried about making the minimum payment.

[zanne]

54. That is the most self-righteous statement I've heard in awhile.

Some people (not you, obviously) have to use their credit card for everyday living. Some people don't have the luxury of "deciding" whether or not they'll use their cards. MANY people use their cards for groceries.

[tx_dem41]

55. And many people are in dire straits...

and should not be using credit cards and thus making themselves slaves to the credit card industry.

[zanne]

58. Would you suggest that people just go hungry?

You have a strong opinion but no solutions.

[tx_dem41]

59. I would need to know how they got into the situation in the first place...

I made the distinction between long-term unemployment/unexpected medical expenses and "normal spending".

[zanne]

61. And then you'd make your "judgment" on that?

This is a typical conservative non-reply to a question. Would you like me to discuss my finanaces here on a DU forum to "justify" myself to you? What judgmental crap. What would it take to get you down from your tower?

[tx_dem41]

63. Milk and cookies might work.

If someone is in a situation where they are buying groceries on credit, and them only paying the minimum payments they are killing themselves slowly. They have to do a lot more than worry about a minimum payment. They need to vastly change their situation. Education through community colleges, look for another job or extra job, lower standard of living, etc, etc.

[zanne]

64. Oh My God.

What a tool.

[tx_dem41]

65. That's it?

I've been in a long-term unemployment situation. I didn't go into serioius debt due to the fact that I cut costs down severely. I took odd jobs to bring in revenue and I learned new skills on my own. I came out of it as a more employable person and able to take care of myself.

If that makes me a "tool", then so be it.

What are you doing to get yourself out of this situation?

[Le Taz Hot]

79. Oh, Criminee

My husband, with TWO college degrees, has been out of work since May. I don't make enough in my job to support us so doing things like charging groceries saves me about $300.00 a month cash I don't have. Man! I can't believe the self-rightousness around here. Have you people never fallen on hard times?

[tx_dem41]

80. Perhaps you just skipped over my post #4.

In which I addressed your husband's situation.

[rinsd]

97. How is it sefl righteous?

To tell people to stay away from relying on credit cards as it will hurt you financially in the long run?

[MiniMe]

132. The problem is that many people were already in CC trouble BEFORE....

this bill passed. Once those minimum payments double, you have to charge everything because all the cash you have goes into those minimum payments. And that just gets you deeper in debt. I lived through it due to a period of unemployment. I was lucky, I have a lot of equity in my house and I was able to refinance and do a debt consolidation and pay off all of my debts and still have a lot of equity in my house. Many are not so lucky, and must make a decision between paying the rent and feeding their families, or paying the minimum credit card payment.

I agree with you about I charged the debt, and I payed it off. But the interest rates and minimum payments doubling is going to make it just about impossible for some people to handle it. Another plan to get rid of the middle class.

[depakid]

91. Care to cite some evidence for that?

That's not what I heard....

[tx_dem41]

93. Here is a reference to it.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/consumeractionline/2005/07/credit_cards_mi.html

Not specific to naming the groups, I realize. Let me look for more specifics later.

[depakid]

96. I'll await some actual evidence

I rather doubt it will be forthcoming- I don't know any bona fide consumer groups who supported this legislation.

[tx_dem41]

98. Here's a letter where they are complaining about the credit

card companies LOWERING their minimum card payments from 4 to 2%. This was the impetus for the law.

http://www.consumersunion.org/pub/core_financial_services/001121.html

[jbnow]

106. The problem is

it should be on new debt, not on debt incurred under the old agreement.

Whether or not we agree with the initial cause of the debt, they incurred it with the understanding of what the minimum would be. Doubling that minimum is not a favor.

I know someone who suddenly needed a new roof, not cheap, not a choice and they are on disability. They borrowed the money and then transferred the debt to a 3.9% interest for the life of that debt. Paying the minimum on that is not a bad thing. They were worried on how they could pay twice the amount. They thought they had made the best of a bad situation. If they don't pay the full minimum due the 3.9% will be gone, the interest rate shoot up.
You can't miss your mortgage or utilities (heat is especially nice in winter and the gas prices scare them too) and kids have to eat. If it came to it the only "luxury" they could drop to pay the extra was their medication.

I doubt they are the only people who were acting responsibly that are going to be hurt.

And even if people were buying frills, again the debt was incurred under one agreement. There is nothing right about it.

[tx_dem41]

108. I would agree with that. n/t

[BronxBoy]

115. Good Post

My wife and I went through similar circumstances. We had a significant amount of debt due to some medical expenses. We actually had cleaned most of it up but we we purchased our current home we got a nasty surprise in that our septic system wasn't installed properly so we had to shell out about 10 grand to get the problem fixed. That added significantly to our balance.

Luckily we had been discussing retiring this debt and had worked out a plan to do so. We are also foetunate in that our incomes can absorb this hit. But I can imagine how this would affect someone close to the edge.

[Dark]

105. Good point.

I already know some who don't control their spending. They buy whatever they feel like. And they owe $1,000 already. Both are twenty.

They just assume 'Daddy' will bail them out.

[OzarkDem]

151. What are those with medical bills supposed to do?

They're subject to the same rules.

[SpiralHawk]

5. Lovely. When the heating bills come in along with this,

there will be a HUGH HOWL across the land.

Remember -- these developments are brought to you by the BushCo-Republican Culture of Corruption.

So be a good little citizen-consumer unit, and just shut up and PAY YOUR MONEY with a polite little smile.

[Missy M]

7. Just in time for the holidays. Merry Christmas from the credit card...

companies. Their gift to us all.

[PassingFair]

72. Maybe Tex Dem and Lynne Sin will send us all

BOOT STRAPS for X-mas!

Then we can ALL pull ourselves up, just like them!

[tx_dem41]

74. When did becoming financially responsible become a reason

to scorn on DU?

I have acknowledged exceptions for long-term unemployment, disability, and unexpected health downturns for accruing credit card debts. Yet, some people here are actually advocating dooming themselves to be "slaves" to the credit card industry by only paying minimum payments.

[PassingFair]

76. YOU have acknowledged exceptions...

yet you back and applaud legislation that DOESN'T.

Gotta clamp down on Credit, them WELFARE QUEENS are abusin' it!

[depakid]

94. It's the DLC way!

Come up with a bunch of semi-reasonable sounding rationalizations that don't address the complexity of the problem and have little bearing on the "solution" that's imposed by the actual legislation.

[tx_dem41]

99. Since when is PIRG part of the DLC?

http://www.consumersunion.org/pub/core_financial_services/001121.html

[depakid]

100. Did you even read this?

They're supporting a disclosure provision- not the Bankruptcy Bill and not ambushing consumers by doubling their minimum payments.

Credit Card Minimum Payment Warning Act.

This bill will provide consumers several crucial pieces of information on their monthly credit card statement:

● A “minimum payment warning” that paying at the minimum rate will increase the amount of interest that is owed and the time it will take to repay the balance.
● The number of years and months that it will take the consumer to pay off the balance at the minimum rate.
● The total costs in interest and principal if the consumer pays at the minimum rate.
● The monthly payment that would be required to pay the balance off in three years.

[tx_dem41]

101. Did you read this part?

"Credit card issuers have exacerbated the financial problems that many families have faced by lowering minimum payment amounts, from around 4 percent of the balance owed, to about 2 percent currently. This decline in the typical minimum payment is a significant reason for the rise in consumer bankruptcies in recent years. A low minimum payment often barely covers interest obligations. It convinces many borrowers that they are financially sound as long as they can meet all of their minimum payment obligations. However, those that that cannot afford to make these payments often carry so much debt that bankruptcy is usually the only viable option."

I haven't addressed the Bankruptcy Bill as a whole at all on this thread. Just this provision, which consumer groups were clearly for.

I am against the Bankruptcy Bill. Am I happy that this provision is part of an appalling bill? No. Am I all for the repeal of the bill? You bet. Would I vote for this min. payment provision standalone? You bet. I am for the theory of outlawing the smarmy practice that credit card companies were using to make bigger profits. Obviously, PIRG and other consumer groups do too.

[jbnow]

117. This wasn't part of the bill

It was new guidelines set by regulators with the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency. It isn't even a law that they MUST but most credit card companies are following the new guidelines.

[tx_dem41]

120. Thanks for pointing that out. n/t

[LynneSin]

107. I don't think we were applauding the legislation

I've mentioned many times that the legislation failed to help those who are in debt due to extenuating circumstances.

But why must I feel sorry for those who spent themselves into debt for foolish living. I mean, I did and surely I don't want anyone to feel sorry for me. I'm gonna suffer too but it'll make me work just that much harder.

[PassingFair]

109. Ooops, you left this up-thread:

The legislation affects US ALL. Even those who carry no cc debt! I have customers going out of business because of these changes. I have had customers declare bankruptcy to avoid them.

For many years, it has been easier and more cost-effective for small business owners to finance their businesses on credit rather than high-interest, hard to get bank credit.

You could borrow $500,000 from a bank, no trouble...
But if you wanted $50,000, forget it.

No one is asking you to "feel sorry for those who spent themselves into debt for foolish living".
You can go on condemning people until the day you run out of words, if you want....

[LynneSin]

111. You know, I would respect this discussion more if you weren't so insultive

I find the brown shirt comment pretty assisine. Could you not have discussed this without tossing that in as a method of trying to win your argument.

I expected better from someone like you, who I have respected here. But I guess it's just easier to post a picture for insultive matters.

Facts - credit cars are given out with the promise that those debts would be repaid from the owner of the card and yet every year millions of dollars are absorbed by the credit card industry because of unpaid debts. You think that 29% interest rate is accidental? It's like that because of the same reason I pay through the roof for my damn car insurance even though I'm a safe driver. Because the majority end up suffering for the minority who have abused their privelidges and break the law.

It is a difficult world we live in and we're all better people when we tear up our credit cards and find other methods to pay for our things. It's a shame about those small businesses but they knew the risks using credit for loans just like I did when I ran up my credit debts.


Grow up and try a better method argument then trying to insult someone with offensive pictures

[PassingFair]

114. I am sorry that you find the hair shirt offensive, Lynne...

and I have long agreed with your posts on this board, BUT
your attitude on the credit card legislation I DO NOT understand at all.

I think it must be a Delaware thing, because your "well, they'll just have to suffer" type comments sound like they're channeled straight from my dead 'puke grandfather!

When people ran up their debt, whether it was for business, subsistence, emergency OR pleasure, it was with the understanding that cc debt was DISCHARGEABLE IN BANKRUPTCY. That was the deal.

It is despicable that they can legislate away rights under that original contract.

This law is bad for both the consumer and the country.

If you want to throw stones at the assholes who lived in $500,000 while running up high credit charges go ahead. But you should know that THOSE assholes will still be able to declare bankruptcy AND skate out of their credit card bill.

The little guys will pay, and pay, and pay.

[LynneSin]

123. Oh, I thought it was a brown shirt - silly me

Here's the problem, the CC debt was dischargeable but the problem was it's happening way more often then you can imagine. The problem was that people were doing it over and over again and it was happening more and more. How responsible should the credit card companies be with people who go out and spend frivously thinking "Oh well, I'll just discharge the debt and start all over again" only to get themselves in the same exact position again.

I'm not defending the corportations, I'm just pointing out an obvious. And yes, maybe it's a Delaware thing and I'm from Delaware and maybe you'd be suprised at the number of liberals who work in those credit card companies because yes I'm one of them. I see the money they're losing on charge offs and it's not pretty. And unfortunately the people who pay for those charge-offs are the everday folks who get sucked into a higher interest rate simply because their payment was a few days late.

I'm hoping that once we get a few more democrats in DC and hopefully a democratic president that this bill can be visited again. Some of those amendments came close to passing and it would be nice to try one more time to alter the bankerupcy bill so we target those people who abuse credit and not those who don't (or got there because of some really bad unforseen reason that had nothing to do with frivilous charges).

But I'm just an average joe who works a decent job and is quite proud that I went from the frivilous spenders team to the treat credit with respect. I suppose I'm almost like one of those annoying anti-smokers who now goes off the deep end towards anyone who smokes (I have a college roommate like that and as a lifetime non-smoker she's annoying as hell).

I think it's fair to say that although we both agree the bill is, overall, a bad thing that we still see differently on some of the issues. And I think it's also fair to say that both of us agree that we will fight hard to get us a congress that will at least modify the bill so we are targetting the proper people. But just to warn you, Biden probably won't be a good target. He'll win by like 75% even with a republican opponent. But maybe we can pick off some of those republicans that supported it with more desirable democrats

:hugs:

[PassingFair]

126. I knew it had to be a deeply personal thing....

the big problems I have (some of the big problems I have) with the cc companies is:

"The problem was that people were doing it over and over again and it was happening more and more."
Yep, and the cc companies kept on extending more and more credit to BAD RISKS at alarming paces. The solicitations were preposterous! Why didn't the companies keep reasonable limits? They have and use access to our personal information...

"How responsible should the credit card companies be with people..."
They should be FULLY responsible. They were lending, nay, SOLICITING known credit risks.
This would be like me PRESSING a $100 dollar bill on a Bowery bum and expecting him to pay it back.

"Oh well, I'll just discharge the debt and start all over again" only to get themselves in the same exact position again."
And WHO extended the credit to them, AGAIN AND AGAIN? How many $100.00 bills am I gonna give the bum before I figure out he's gotta hit the lotto for me to get paid? It used to be that when you declared bankruptcy, you couldn't GET another credit card. Now, the solicitations are in the mailbox when you get home from bankruptcy court!

By the way, I'm an ex-smoker who encourages smoking friends and family to smoke when they're in my house, because I KNOW it makes them more comfortable. And I really don't mind the smell THAT much. I HATE to see them huddled by the door, refusing to "smell up" my house. When I'm enjoying someone's company, I don't like to think that they're looking for an escape hatch so they can have a smoke. I REMEMBER too well what that was like!

And YES, people have abused credit. But I think that if the credit card companies had shut the tap off, they would not have to deal with a flooded bottom line. They implored people to get in over their heads.

Now let me know if you guys field a progressive to give Biden a hemorrhoid in your primaries. I'll send him a few bucks.
(Hell, I'll CHARGE IT)

:hug:

[LynneSin]

127. Well save your dollars

no one will run against Biden - the only people who don't like him are the republicans

[PassingFair]

128. And just about every Democrat...

...outside of Delaware!

[LynneSin]

131. I actually don't agree with that statement

I mean, if we did a poll here in DU you'd probably be correct.

But then again DU is just a small sampling of 80,000 democrats where there seems to be hundred of millions of registered democrats in this country.

Joe is actually been very popular across the country with the democratic party although probably not enough to get the presidental nomination.

[PassingFair]

147. You need to take a peek out of Delaware....

I believe that informed democrats outside of Delaware and the BeltWay will vote for Biden along the same percentages as we saw with "Joementum" in 04.

No one. NO ONE I've spoken with here in the mid-west likes the guy AT ALL!

[ScreamingMeemie]

148. Yes, charging prescriptions makes my grandmother financially irresponsible

Let's stick it to her....

[jbnow]

116. Really it's Merry Christmas from

regulators with the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency setting new guidelines.

That is even more ironic. A federal agency saying people should be more financially responsible, but of course the federal government doesn't need to be.

Shall we call this a perfect storm? Payments doubled even on debt incurred under another agreement, gas for heating more then doubling, less protection under bankruptcy laws and so on.

Happy frigging holidays, but don't forget to buy, buy , buy or the terrorists will win.

[onehandle]

9. They are also trying to get a lot of low interest cards off their books.

We got an offer for a card at a fixed 1.99% rate a couple of years ago. We needed some work done to our house so we jumped on it. It's a better rate than any mortgage. Now rates have gone up enough that the credit card company is losing money on me.

They want me gone so my payment doubled this month. I can afford that, but there are many people who couldn't.

[0007]

10. Build more prisons and torture chambers for those god awful debtors

[LynneSin]

11. Folks instead of bitching here's a thought: RIP UP THOSE CREDIT CARDS

You know I have CC debts myself from foolish spending and this is tough for me just as anyone else. But I'm doing all in my power to pay off this bill because credit cards shouldn't be used as a way of life but an emergency.

Yes, I know the Bankerupcy Bill was unfair in the sense that amendments to protect those without jobs, healthcare issues and other extinuating issues would be protected but our democratic minority failed us. HOpefully this could be corrected if we oust a few more republicans.

But outside of that the debt is yours - pay it. I cut my credit cards up years ago. I still have one that has my outstanding bill although I transferred it recently to a zero interst 12 months offer that I received from another in hopes to get the rest of it paid off in a year. YOu want to pay minumum payments on your CC bill - then that's a 30 year loan. If you have a $5000 balance and paid the minimum then you're going to end up giving the Credit Card company like $30,000 back to pay off that $5000 bill.

My only personal credit card is for emergencies only. If I want a new TV or a fun vacation I better have that money in my checking account because I use my debit card for all those purchases.

For millions of consumers (myself include) we've mortgaged our future through foolish credit card abuse. Don't feel sorry for me because I only have myself to blame. So I'm gonna suck it up and make those payments instead of blaming my senator, the credit card companies, the tooth fairy or a host of other people for my debt other than the main culprit which is myself.

[tx_dem41]

15. Very sound advice, Lynne. n/t

[losdiablosgato]

16. My wife and I pay off our cards every month

We use them to get airline points. Right now we are about 3 months from a free ticket on southwest. We put food, gas, and other necessities only on the card.

[LynneSin]

22. I switched to one of those rewards cards too

I'm not worried about the free miles - I wanted the low interest to help get my debt paid off. Maybe once that is done I'll see what I can do to build up some rewards provided that I stay within my budget and do exactly what you're doing. But today, right now - I don't trust myself.

[BlueEyedSon]

18. Gee, if you want you CC companies financially suppored properly,

you ought to get back on one with some interest!

Should people pay cash for a house? A car? Where do you draw the line on what expenses are "reasonable" to use credit for?

Some people undertook consumer debt with a reasonable expectation of being able to pay it off, but their highly paid job was downsized or offshored....

[LynneSin]

19. Reasonable expense? As my grandfather would say

When the Incoming is greater than the outgoing then that's reasonable expense.

For almost a decade the opposite was true for me.

[BlueEyedSon]

21. So how does one buy a house? Save for 30 years and get it at age 60?

[LynneSin]

26. Doomsday is a good title of your blog

Go find some trees & a hut and live there.

I'm buying my house this year!!

It's obvious you want free money from the credit card company and are unwilling to recognize that much of the debt on those cards were self-inflicted by many.

There is nothing wrong with debt. Last I check most mortgages are NOT at 29%, for the house I'm buying I'm looking at less than 6%. Like the statement says: When incoming is greater than outgoing then you can justify the expense. Houses are investments my decision right now is to find a house that I know I can afford even if I weren't making the salary that I am today. I'd love a 3 bedroom home in the country with a 2 car garage but I know I can't afford it. But a nice 2 bedroom townhome will keep my incoming greater than my outgoing

[BlueEyedSon]

32. So, its ok to take credit to buy a house. How about a car?

Help me to clarify your thinking.

Next, how will you furnish your house? Cardboard boxes from the trash?

BTW: ad hominem is a RW tactic, dontcha know!

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beaconess]

119. Buying a house on credit makes sense because it's an appreciable

asset. That's why borrowing for education also is smart. The financed property appreciates in far greater amounts than the cost of the credit. Borrowing to buy a car, furniture, appliances or other assets that depreciate immediately upon taking possession is not financially wise, although car loans are now such a staple in our society that we'll probably never get away from them.

[tx_dem41]

23. When taking on debt....

you should NEVER assume that your current income level will be maintainable throughout the life of the loan. If you run into trouble such as a job loss, that is what savings are for. If you accrued no savings, then you were living beyond your means.

[OneTwentyoNine]

25. And that does what for issue at hand?

You addressing everything in your posts except whats at hand. I use my cards wisely,I have outstanding credit or I couldn't get zero % interest.

I don't run around buying bubble gum,McDonalds and movies on my CC--its only used for things that are major--like decks made out of Red Cedar.I could very easily just roll the debt over to my home mortage and start paying 5.25%.

I agree that people should use cards wisely--never have more than one with charges on it. That being said what if banks decided to double your house payment under the same bogus line of getting you out of debt faster?

I'll survive but I can see some real suffering out there in this Bush economy.

[LynneSin]

30. The bill is flawed

You have valid points but hopefully the number of homeowners that would be affected by such a bill are much greater than the number of us who were stupid with our credit cards. The outrage alone at such a bill would prevent that from happening (I hope).

There will be suffering and I will be a part of the fight to hopefully altar some of that bankerupcy bill to give help to those who truly need it. But our senate couldn't even get a bill passed that would provide aid for heating bills because we are in the minority. Republicans are our target, let's hope we can make a difference in 2006

[BlueEyedSon]

33. Do you work for a CC company?

[Lerkfish]

39. seems that way.

or she's just adamant about her POV on this issue.


:shrug:

I would imagine even employees of credit card companies might not all support everything the company does. I don't agree with my own employer on every issue.

[BlueEyedSon]

43. When I call up Citi, i get a boiler room in India.

I wonder if they contribute to Biden...?

[Name removed]

45. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Debau2005]

28. Not all of us are in CC debt because of a tv!

Mine was because I was out of work and had to feed my family and pay bills. To me that was an emergency. Once I went back to work, I was paying off my CC. Doubling my minimum payment will set me back to the point that I may have to either work another job or give up something...Let's see, I can give up water, electicity, gas for the car to get to work, groceries...Oh who am I kidding, my family does not need warm clothes, that fit, for the winter...We'll wear our summer things, how many tank tops can we layer to keep warm.

So yes, I only have myself to blame for using the cards and building the debt, but please don't assume that everyone has "mortgaged our future" on frivilous purchases.

[BlueEyedSon]

29. Based on that TX guy's logic, you were/are living beyond your means.

[OneTwentyoNine]

31. Well said....that was the point of my original post n/t

[Debau2005]

38. I agree, but

what am I to cut? Heat, water, food? I am still recovering from unemployment, my company went overseas and left us flat! I applied everywhere. And no fast food does NOT take people with advanced degrees. I was told I was overqualified to flip burgers, as I would not be there long.

We have cut unnecessary items, such as snack food for lunches, bottled water, we fill up the bottles in the sink at home. We no longer have luncheon meat, it is too expensive.

Please don't assume that cc debt is an avoidable event, sometimes it is not. Lets remember the people on the Gulf Coast who now have nothing, no jobs, and no home. What are we doing to help them with their ballooning cc debt? Tell them to stop living above their means?

[Lerkfish]

40. or unexpected medical expenses, as per my post #37

[BronxBoy]

118. And I'd like to add something to what you posted......

It seems that there is something called cross default where if you are late on a payment to one creditor, another un-related creditor can jack up the rates on your debt even though you have a spotless record with that company.

It just seems that there are several things converging right now that will be hell on consumers.

[LynneSin]

46. and as I've said many times - you're the people we failed

I know that many people were backed in the corner and didn't have much choice. My best friend ended up in the same boat herself. But when 54 republican senators are gungho to vote against every amendment democrats put to out there to try and help our hands are tied. But let's not blame those 54 republican senators when we can all heap this on the one democrat who happens to live in a state that is overwhelmingly dominated by the CC industry

[BlueEyedSon]

36. We can do both: rip up cards AND try to remedy the problems

of campaign finance.

[Lerkfish]

37. this is all well and good, but you're acting as if CC debt is always from

foolish spending.

Sometimes, as was the case with me until recently, it can also be catastrophic medical expenses.
Between my wife and I, we had 5 non-elective surgeries or invasive procedures (read emergency) in under a year and a half. Without being able to temporarily float the uncovered by insurance portion onto credit cards, we'd be in a heap of trouble in the short term, and we would have been in the long term, if we hadn't have gotten a personal injury settlement (which was what one of the surgeries was about) and could pay off the cards in a lump sum.

if not for that, we'd be up the creek without a paddle when they doubled the minimum.

Not everyone on credit cards gets there from being foolish.

[tx_dem41]

47. I hope that you and your wife are ok now, Lerkfish. n/t

[Lerkfish]

50. thank you.

I will have pain the rest of my life, which is why the settlement. I've had some physical therapy and I just have to deal with it.
It came from a traffic accident where an elderly woman ran a red light and slammed into me at 45 mph. She never hit her brakes. luckily there were many witnesses and the woman admitted it to the police.

the other surgeries were things like gall bladder, etc. ...things which if corrected are not life threatening, but come on you suddenly and cannot be planned out or scheduled.

So after this year and half, it destroyed any savings we had and pushed us into a lot of debt, even though we had insurance, we still have to pay 25% and full cost of prescriptions.

but thanks, we're doing ok now, it was just a very rough patch financially.

[tx_dem41]

52. I was in a similar car accident (the recipient that is) and was fortunate

to not suffer any serious injuries.

I'm sorry to hear of your financial sufferings due to the accident. In my posts on this thread, I attempted to make a distinction between "free spending" and situations such as yours.

My thoughts are with you and your wife.

[LynneSin]

48. If I wasn't clear enough let me be so now

We failed because we did not have the numbers to pass several important amendments in the bankerupcy bill that would help out people just like yourself in such a position.

Biden wasn't the only one that sided with the CC companies, he along with Carper did what 2 senators who live in a state overwhelmingly supported by the financial industry would do. No different than what Mary Landrieu has done with the oil industry. Disgusting yes, but that's politics. All 3 will probably be re-elected easily to their position.

But what we can do is focus our time and energies on those 54 republican senators who also supported the bill and opposed the amendment. None of them are from Delaware - they did it because god forbid we help the working class folks. They also shot down help for home heating bills and benefits for soldiers coming home from IRaq. They'd steal the lollipop from your kid too if they could get away with it.

We need to get them out of office. We won't get all but maybe we'll get a few. We need to focus on the house where I think we have a chance to get the majority again. And we need a strong democratic presidental nominee in 2008. ANd yes, I love my state and I'll vote for Biden for senator but god forbid that asshole gets the nomination in 2008 for president. The fact that I see bumperstickers for his campaign already nauseates me.

My rants were never intended for situations like yours and a few others mentioned here.

[BlueEyedSon]

49. "Disgusting yes, but that's politics."

Why do Republicans (in congress) vote the way they do? The same reason that Biden & Carper (and Landrieu, et al) vote the way they do. MONEY.

Until money is out of politics, you can expect that the large corporations and mega-rich families will continue to have their agendas expressed as legislation.

It makes little difference whether the actors are Pubs or Dems.

[Lerkfish]

51. Understood. I just wanted to point out that not everyone in my

situation gets there for being stupid.

of course, I AM stupid about many things, but that wasn't the reason for the credit card debt.
:)

[zanne]

53. What if you have to use your credit card to buy food?

Believe me, I would like nothing better than to rip up my credit cards. I don't use them for "luxuries". Sometimes people have to use their credit cards just to survive. Of course, the less money you have, the higher your interest rate. The poor are getting a double whammy here. I have to decide (this month) on whether I can keep my computer. It's my only luxury. Some people DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE!

[msongs]

62. umm you could re-examine how you live you live and reorder your

priorities in life and be responsible for yourself instead of using somebody else's money?

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[zanne]

66. The only luxury I have is my computer.

And it's second hand. You wouldn't believe my annual income if I told you. I've been disabled for 15 years. I take care of my mother, who has Alzheimer's, and lives with me. I leave my house only four times a month, because I can't afford to hire someone to sit with her. I haven't bought clothing in over a year. I eat cheap food (no meats, no organics, no sweets, etc. I have no bad habits that would cause me to spend a penny.
But I'm sure you'd find a way for me to be more "responsible", Msongs. Watch our for that karma, by the way. You just might wind up being just as "irresponsible" as I am.

[tx_dem41]

67. Thank you zanne for opening my eyes some.

I should have included situations like yours in my distinctions, and I apologize for it.

Alzheimer's has visited my family and I empathize with the utter devastation it can cause to all involved. My thoughts to you and your family.

[zanne]

68. Thank you, tx_dem41

I should have been clearer about my situation in the beginning.

[tx_dem41]

69. And I should have been more open-minded.

Lesson learned.

[faithnotgreed]

71. our thoughts are with you and your mother zanne

thank you for what you do and give to her
clearly its a difficult situation and everyone should understand what youre facing
if they dont then thats their problem....

take good care
were glad youre here in this community and i truly hope it helps you (and your mom) even a bit for you to be here

i have to ask even though im sure youve been through all this (probably many times)

are there any social agencies to help you and your mom - either with food or counseling or anything you 2 need
and do you have any family that is helping at all in the care of your mom

love and prayers for you both (if thats ok)

[zanne]

84. Since she became bed-bound,

The VNA has been sending in nurse's aides--one in the morning to give her a sponge bath, and another at night to change her. These aides are incredible people. This morning, right after the aide left, I went into my mother's room and found that she had put a little stuffed animal right next to her on the pillow. It put a lump in my throat.
My family really tries, but only one of my siblings still lives in town and they all work, so they don't have the time.
Thank you for your thoughts, concern and prayers. I just hope that before my generation (Baby Boomers) get to that age, Alzheimer's will be a thing of the past.

[faithnotgreed]

86. thank you for sharing

i know this is incredibly personal and every situation like this carries its own unique needs and heartache

its good to know you have any help at all and yes the home health care can be an amazing help
though its very limited
its very sweet to hear that one put a stuffed animal next to your mom

im glad to know you have some family around. certainly its understandable that what they can give timewise is limited since they have jobs and other responsibilities

if i may also throw this out there - are there any alzheimer or long term illness support groups - even a statewide or one in your region. are there any additional programs to help given income etc.
does your dr keep you up to date on any information or groups that may be able to help
as i know you know it can be so important to research all the information thats possible even when we are unsure if it can be of any real assistance

i will give an example

my mom has macular degeneration and has lost much vision. she is shy and usually doesnt reach out to those who may be able to help her. she is also low income
she found out about a county program that does a lot that has really helped her (esp emotionally to know she had some support and has met others in her situation. when this first happened she really didnt know what to do and had limited knowledge of this ailment). but they have also helped in getting her to a monthly support class as well as providing some computer assistance

they have also given her some free items incl an expensive piece of software to help her use the computer as well as a large magnifier "reader" that helps her identify things like who sent her a letter or to write a check etc

anyway
best wishes to you zanne. i dont mean to sound so obvious in what im suggesting but im a firm believer in communication. you just never know how long someone has been hurting or what their resources are so i just wanted to ask on the very slight chance that it could be of any help.
and even if its not i am happy to know youre here and thank you again for sharing a very sensitive piece of your life

sending hugs to you both.....

[ScreamingMeemie]

149. Yeah grandma, screw those medicines. Lynne, it's not as black and white

as you and others in this thread would have it be. Today alone, I threw away 6 credit card offers....when you live in Michigan, and just lost your job with the automotive company and your baby is hungry....gee, you might just take them up on it. Yes, I understand you're not talking about "those" people, but just how does one tell the difference?

[Viking12]

56. Not all will double...Ease back

The new formula requires that payments cover at least 1% of the principle in addition to interest, fees, and finance charges. For high interest rate cards with lots of fees and marketed "affordable" monthly payments, the payments may double. For low interest cards with low/no fees CC holders won't see any changes in their monthly bill.

The problem that has been created is that these changes have been soming for several years and the consumers haven't been properly informed. For those people not expecting the change and are barely making minimum payments, this is going to hurt.

[OneTwentyoNine]

124. 1%?? Hardly....try 4% Here's a link..........

http://financialplan.about.com/od/creditcarddebt/a/CCMinimums.htm

I've also never heard anything about some cards going to 4% of the minimum while others stay the same. Looks like a blanket raise for everyone to me.

[Viking12]

135. TOTAL payment for some MAY be 4% of principle

Did you even read the article you posted? Did you read my post? Does the word MAY mean anything to you.

I explained the new rule requires that at least 1% of the principle IN ADDITION to fees and finance charges -- add all of those together and payments might raise up to 4% for SOME high interest, high fee card holders. I have low-interest, no-fee cards and I pay in excess of 1% of my balance in addition to the fees my current minimum payments; my monthly payment will not change under the new rules. Get the facts and stop be such an alarmist.

See:
http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?Category=5&ID=249889&r=1

Regulators have not specifically required credit card issuers to boost minimum payments to 4 percent. Instead they recommended minimum payments be set so that people could pay off their balances in a “reasonable” amount of time.

It seems that the word “reasonable” caused some confusion. So the regulators issued a clarification that the minimum payment must cover interest, fees and at least 1 percent of the outstanding balance each month, DeBuck said.

“Because banks were having trouble deciding what was reasonable, we have gravitated toward 1 percent of the principal,” DeBuck said. “This is not a hard and fast rule and banks may establish other payment amounts.”

For example, MBNA Corp.’s old policy required consumers to pay their finance charges, fees (if any) plus $15 or 2.25 percent of their balance, whichever was less. The company’s new policy requires cardholders to pay finance charges, fees and 1 percent of their balance. For those who were customers before July 1, the change applies beginning with their January 2006 payment. For those who got a card after July, the new formula was applied immediately, according to MBNA spokesman Jim Donahue.

[Talismom]

57. We pay our one card up on time and use cash more and more. F the

bastards. They're not gettin' rich on us!

[LynneSin]

77. Smartest Plan

I've switched to using my Debit Card. I hate carrying cash around but like the convienience of using my debit card where I know my max limit is how much I leave in my checking account.

[Talismom]

78. I think it's the best plan. It makes me feel good knowing that the

corporate whores are not making a mint on us.

[AbbyR]

104. Love my debit card

One of the reasons I got a credit card in the first place was so I could do on-line shopping for the very few things I do buy. (Books are my single luxury.) Now that I have a debit card, I never use the credit cards and hope that someday I will get them paid off - better sooner than later.

[Freddie Stubbs]

60. This is a good thing

People will pay off thier debt sooner, and pay less interest in the long run.

[depakid]

92. Sure it is....

especially now that people who are living marginally can't file chapter 7 if they're at the meager median income.

Yep- it's beauty provision for people struggling to get by who are already choosing between heat, food & medicine.

[AzDar]

73. Hopefully, the credit card industry will cut it's own throat with this

greedy and ill-advised move. This is good for no one..not the consumer, and ultimately not for the industry itself. I , for one, will no longer be using a credit-card; I have a zero-balance and am not much good to them anyway; ("deadbeat", I believe,is the term they use for peeps like myself) but God help those who are forced into a position where they MUST use c.c.s..(and there are MANY in this era of Bush)as usual, those who can afford it the least will be hit the hardest.As for the rest of us,let's give 'em what they say they want(less consumer debt...puhhh-leaaaze)and watch the credit card industry sink beneath the waves of it's own greed, allowing all the rats to go down with it.

[Freddie Stubbs]

95. having them pay off these deabts over 20+ years would be a better idea?

:shrug:

[AzDar]

110. Unfortunately, yes, if that's what it takes. You can't squeeze

blood from a turnip, you know.Point being,this will be too much for some budgets (whether temporarily strained or ALWAYS playing catch-up,it matters not)and push them over the edge. Not good for ANYONE who can't do it!!!

[No Exit]

75. It's part of Junior's "Ownership Society"

He plans for an "Ownership Society", haven't you heard? That's where the financiers own us little people.

[RunningFromCongress]

81. so? you shouldn't be keeping balances on non-0% CCs anyway

credit cards are there to allow for purchases without needing to carry around lots of cash...and since debit cards have been introduced there's no reason to even have a CC unless it's 0%. And having a 0% card is the ONLY reason to be paying the minimum

Don't blame big business b/c of your personal debt spending.

[tx_dem41]

82. Why this bill can save you money....a LOT of money.

Assumptions:

Your credit card interest rate is 18%.
Your balance is $3,000.
Your previous minimum payment was 2%
Your new doubled minimum payment is 4%.
You pay the required minimum payment per month.


Results:

How long it will take you to pay off the $3,000 principal under the old regime: 451 months (that's 37.5 YEARS!!!!).
How much you will end up paying for that $3,000: $10,930.60

How long it will take you to pay off the $3,000 principal under the new regime: 130 months (that's 10.8 YEARS).
How much you will end up paying for that $3,000: $4,715.67


SO...as a result, you will have saved $6,214.93 and paid it off ~27 years earlier!!!!!

[Lerkfish]

85. good point, but being devil's advocate here...

a great many people (for a variety of reasons both legit and nonlegit) are at the edge of their income/outgo line.
It doesn't much matter to those folks that they'll pay it off sooner, if they can't pay it now.

to expand your example:

Assumptions:

Your credit card interest rate is 18%.
Your balance is $3,000.
Your previous minimum payment was 2% ($60)
Your new doubled minimum payment is 4%. ($120)
You pay the required minimum payment per month.

let's say you make $800 a month.
you pay $400 in rent, $200 in groceries, $100 in gas (to keep it simple)
that leaves $100. Now, at present, you can handle a 60 dollar credit card payment and have 40 per month left over. but if it doubles, you're going to have to come up an extra 20 dollars each month, or start defaulting, paying late fees (the REAL reason for this legislation) and keep sliding further and further into debt.

As in all things economic, people in comfort zones can adjust. People on the edge have to rob peter to pay paul. They have to cut back on things already thin.

Now, one could reasonably argue that such people on the edge should not have credit card debt, but these are the people most prone to sudden catastrophic costs: They own older vehicles that can suddenly need to be repaired...or medical conditions brought on by inadequate preventive measures.

[tx_dem41]

87. Lerk, I'm just trying to show a tangible example of the effects of

paying only minimum payment and how much more money you will pay if you keep with that strategy. Maybe it will provide some impetus for those that can afford more than the minimum payment to change that behavior.

I have acknowledged catastrophic events (such as yours) on this thread and understand obviously that it is unavoidable in most circumstances. So barring those, I would say that people on the edge should not have credit card debt.

Thanks for responding.

[Lerkfish]

88. sorry, wasn't trying to dampen your post, just bringing up what I think is

a valid point about how this change is going to affect people on the edge, and there ARE people there, for whatever reason, even their own stupidity.

I agree with your post, just bringing up an attendant issue.

My concern is that the number of people on the edge is larger than we probably realize.
And since bankruptcy is moot, I frankly don't know what is going to happen to them.

[tx_dem41]

90. I don't know what will happen to them either.

And, I don't say that coldly.

Thanks, again.

[AbbyR]

103. Bingo on the car...

I drive a 14 year old Toyota (may she last forever) My husband drives a 10 year old Nissan. BOTH needed new engines this year, and other work. If it hadn't been for credit cards, I would have had to quit my job. I hate it that I had to charge, and yes, I should have had savings, but when you live from paycheck to paycheck with NOTHING extra, it's next to impossible.

My daughter had to have a computer for college. I bought her an on-sale Dell with no interest for six months, and I made the last payment today. Yippee - no interest at all!

And as to a few other things mentioned above - I rarely buy new clothes and live in discount tennis shoes which I glue back together when they need it. I never eat out, I never go to movies (well, I made an exception for Harry Potter, but that was the first one in a couple of years), etcetc.

It's not easy, but I'll make it.

(This is an interesting thread - I've enjoyed reading different opinions.)

[MadHound]

83. Just another reason I'm glad I don't have a card, and never have had one

I've lived my entire life, including emergencies, homelessness, etc. etc. without a card, and have never felt the lack there-of. I just have never gotten the concept of paying somebody in order to get it now. If I can't get it now, then I wait.

My only credit throughout my life has been my house. But cars and other consumer items are all on a cash only basis, and if I can't afford it, I go without until I can.

[formernaderite]

89. Just remember WHO voted for the bankruptcy bill....

particularly during the primaries.

[izzybeans]

102. This is a bandaid. It will force cash strapped low income folks

to rethink their spending (me included) but do nothing to fix the issue of being "strapped for cash". Consumer debt is two fold-consumption and capital. If collective wages meet what the market actually bares in terms of consumer demands then there would be much mch less debt. That's the flip side of the coin nobody is discussing.

[jokerman93]

113. Next up???

Massive debt coming to the USA. No chapter 11 anymore. They just dumped that. Sooo...will it be debtors prison or medical experiments for the lot of 'em?

Naah! Pay it all off with military service of course!

This is going to get ugly.

[KansDem]

121. My car of 20 years...

Actually, this is not my car but I have the same model and year. My car looks terrible: dents and rust all over, and it leaks oil profusely. The point is: I can't afford a new car or a newer used car. I chose to go to graduate school and took out student loans. Then I had to use credit cards to finish school (my GTA ended). The point: I'm paying off credit cards and student loans and therefore cannot buy a new car because I don't want to be saddled with a $200-$400 obligation for 4-5 years. Would I like a new car? Sure! But I'm barely getting by as it is. Major medical emergency two years ago depleted much of my "savings" (I had just taken out a second mortgage for home improvements when I suffered a life-threatening illness. I was off work for some time and used up most of that loan). But now I work to pay off my creditors. In essence I'm just the "middle man" between my employer and my creditors. I just hope nothing else happens to zap more of my income.

PS I wish my car looked this nice!

[Supersedeas]

122. Post Bankruptcy Bill Rewards--will the Corporate Media clarify this?

[Tactical Progressive]

125. People can already make double the minimum pay if they choose

In no way can forcing people to take an option they already have be considered consumer-friendly.

This is foreclosing on a lower monthly payment option and nothing more. Trying to sell this as a consumer benefit is absurdly disingenuous.

[agincourt]

129. That is the part everyone missed,

The purpose of the higher payment is to stick people with late fees and overlimit fees. Better handling of consumer credit was the last thing they wanted.

[OneTwentyoNine]

133. Ummm,did you read all of my original post?

Those thugs aren't fooling anyone with their claim to help people get out of CC debt by doubling minimum payments.

[agincourt]

152. Yes

I meant the USA in general missed it. Too many people I know thought this was a "good in the long run" thing.

[sendero]

134. Isn't this a difficult problem....

.... the provisions in this bill that prevent write-off in bankruptcy are indefensible IMHO. They would have been reasonable if exceptions for medical/unemployment/other reasonable unforeseeable calamities were made.

But I'm pretty much on board with this minimum payment mess, although I would have preferred a phase-in where only newly incurred debt was handled that way, but the accounting for that would have been a nightmare.

Why? Because way too many Americans are basically innumerate and do not understand the simple FACT that paying 2% on your debt every month is getting you NOWHERE.

Credit/lending laws are rife with similar constructs to protect the borrower, from disclosure rules to collection rules. Everyone seems to have no problem with these - so please stop talking out of both sides of your asses on this point. It is an improvement to prevent CC companies from essentially collecting interest-only payments forever.

Now if they would outlaw mortgages with interest only or reverse amortization, we'd be getting somehwere.

[tx_dem41]

136. We agree completely, sendero.

I provided an example of how crippling paying only min. payments is in my post #82.

And, in my post #99 I provided a letter that showed that consumer groups such as PIRG were for raising the minimum payment. I wish people would realize that lowering minimum payments was a sleazy trick implemented by the CC companies.

We also agree on lamenting that exceptions (at the very least) weren't placed in the Bankruptcy Bill.

[sendero]

139. Oh for sure..

.... the Bankruptcy bill SUCKS, just not this particular provision.

Shout out to a fellow Dallasite - I'm sure the "evil Texan epithets" will show up here eventually :)

[tx_dem41]

140. They already have if you peruse the thread.

:) and a :hi:

[Bridget Burke]

145. Since Delaware residents think this is a great development....

Why don't we find our old "Let a Yankee Freeze In the Dark" bumper stickers? After all, we're an oil state!

We all need to exercise wisdom in our personal finances. But some people face worse consequences than postponing that trip to Italy.

[tx_dem41]

146. I don't think its a GREAT development...

but as sendero said, in the mid-to-long run this is a very positive move to bringing down consumer debt which is a true plague on our society. That is why the consumer groups were for this move.