I voted in Virginia today

[OldLeftieLawyer]

It was as bizarre a voting experience as I've ever had. And I've voted in Chicago, where the dead vote.

First, they looked up my registration.

I had to show ID, which is new.

Fine. There I was, and I knew my address, even.

Then, instead of being shown to a voting booth, as always before, I was handed a card that said "Registration Verified," and I had to go to another table.

There, a woman got me a Registration Number from a laptop that generated something a printer spat out. It had a four-digit figure - my Registration Number - and looked like a Chinese fortune out of a cookie. I was told specifically what booth to go to - Booth 6 - even though all 8 booths were available.

And, at that point, I thought, "They just stole my vote."

The more steps a process has, the more places there are to cheat.

It was not a touch-screen, but, rather a dial-operated select screen. I turned the dial to light up the four numbers, in sequence, that were my Registration Number, then hit Enter, and then the ballot appeared. I had to use the same dial to select all my Democrats, and then I hit Enter again, my choices came up on the screen for me to review, and then I hit Vote, and the screen thanked me.

To tell you how disgusted I was with the process, I didn't throw away the paper with my Registration Number, even though there was a trash container near the exit, just for those little things. I didn't throw it in there because I don't trust those sons-of-bitches who stole my vote the last time and who, I am certain, stole it again today.

[electropop]

1. You're scaring me.

I hope my precinct still has scanned-paper ballots, as always. I'll be voting in a few hours.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

3. I'm not scared

I'm fucking outraged.

Don't be scared. Be mad.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. this was the way it was in Arkansas

only not so high tech. They made you sign a list, and then gave you a ballot marked with the same number that was by your signature. There weren't locks on the ballot boxes, either, so anyone could look in and see how you voted, and change your vote. A ballot initiative finally stopped this.

[Book Lover]

4. Dial-operated?

General question to the universe - what the hell?

May I ask - did you ask her if you could go to a different booth?

[Dora]

16. We use these machines in Austin too.

Dial, yes. Moving the dial causes the cursor to move from field to field, much like moving a mouse does.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

21. It never occurred to me

I wish I had. Oh, damn, how I wish I had.

Or just gone to a different booth and voted.

I fucked it up. Damn.

[Book Lover]

25. Your vote would

probably have been scrambled no matter which booth you choose. That's my bitter and disillusioned guess.

[amitten]

26. Here in Austin...

they have the same system, with one exception. I was NOT instructed to use a particular booth--I picked one at random. Maybe there is a non-malicious reason for the booth assignment you received, something too banal and stupid to even come to mind...just a thought.

[wakeme2008]

5. This computer geek thinks that is tooooo high tech

and will confuse a lot of people. Maybe that the point. :grr:

[win_in_06]

6. Just think, you're a lawyer and you found it bizarre.

Imagine what it is like for Joe Six-Pack.

[underpants]

7. I must be conditioned to Va. voting

that is pretty much the same process I have always been through. The way you describe it the parts that I thought were controls could be cheats.

Wow

I used touch screen today for the first time. They checked my voter card (I thought everyone had to show something) and they gave me a card to give to the guy at the touchscreen and then I did the touchscreen.

No papertrail
-the guy in line in front of my joked about coming back and voting again (this is very RED district)
-the old guy at the touch screen, when asked by me about a paper trail, said "We are very trusting of people here" to which I replied "Well I'm not".

ON EDIT- I've always used the draw curtain type voting before. They always give you something to give to the observer person and they ALWAYS require you to know your whole name and address or to present an ID or voter card.

They also give you an "I voted" sticker hmmm maybe all these things being handed here and there are some sort of mind control thing....yeah that could be it.

[DeepModem Mom]

8. Thanks, Leftie -- recommended. nt

[justiceischeap]

9. I voted on a Diebold in VA today

And found myself wondering when I went to put my card in if my vote was actually going to be counted...

Sad that when we go to cast our votes, we have to wonder if they're being counted.

[LostinVA]

12. Me too -- Diebold.

[Kukesa]

29. Diebold here in Dayton, Ohio, too. Scary. n/t

[Carolab]

10. REPORT IT to 1-866-OUR-VOTE, PLEASE!

Verified Voting has implemented a new reporting system.

Voters in many states will be deciding important issues by voting Tuesday, November 8, 2005. No matter where you stand on any of the issues or candidates, all eligible voters should have the chance to cast their ballots effectively.

If you experience any problem casting your ballot -- finding the polling place, voter intimidation, accessibility issues, voting machine problems, provisional ballot issues, etc. -- or you witness anyone having voting problems, please immediately call 1-866-OUR-VOTE to report the problem. Please let others know too... the same number works nationwide.

Verified Voting Foundation volunteers and staff have developed a new version of the "Election Incident Reporting System" (EIRS) to record all problems reported to 1-866-OUR-VOTE. Since 2004, hundreds of organizations and thousands of individuals in the United States have used EIRS to help protect our right to vote and assure that every vote is counted as cast. If you'd like to know more about EIRS, please visit VerifiedVotingFoundation.org and Voteprotect.org


Remember: 1-866-OUR-VOTE. To tell your friends: http://www.demaction.org/dia/organizations/vevo/tellafriend.jsp?tell_a_friend_KEY=502

[KoKo]

11. Kick.....I've got my fingers crossed that if "irregularites" are reported

it will be one more nail in the coffin for these machines. I don't know who would be able to investigate VA if the election is close again but the Precinct voting patterns would need to be gone through. Some machines would need to be "impounded" so that the contents can be examined. It was impossible to do this in the National Election because the law suits took so long the machines had time to be manipulated with (like in Ohio) once again so that no record could be found.

Folks saying that Virginia's Board of Elections is all Democratic run, I think are off base. Board of Elections here in NC have to be made up of folks from both parties by law. And, it doesn't mean that the individual County Board of Elections Supervisors in Virginia are all Democrats and they are the ones who purchase the machines for the counties, store them and work with the DRE Technicians on an individual basis.

I'm surprised many DU'es still don't know how it all works from the State down to the County level where each county has it's own control over these machines. We had problems all over NC in the last election because each county has a different means of counting the vote from hand counted ballots all the way through different DRE's, Punch Card Machines and Opti-Scan. We have a Democratic Governor but our Elections Commission is split so that both parties are represented. However in some Republican Counties the Repug. Election Official is in charge of the vote...the purchase of the machine, the storage and the counting.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

19. I met a friend for lunch after voting

I'm in Alexandria, she's in Fairfax County.

She had a completely different experience voting. Touch-screen, simple as before.

I'm sure her straight Democratic ticket votes were stolen, too.

[11 Bravo]

13. Another VA voter here.

I didn't encounter any irregularities (other than the fact that there is no way for me to verify that my vote was even counted!)
Kicked and here's the 5th nomination.

[PDittie]

14. That sounds like eSlate, which is manufactured by

Hart Intercivic. It's not the worst that's out there, but it can still be manipulated.

Most urban areas of my state use eSlate now. You can read more about it here. That is quite an interesting voter registration verification process you went through, however.

[cosmicdot]

45. I'd say that sounds like eSlate, too

used in Orange County, CA as well





sample instructions

Enter Your Access Code

1. Turn the SELECT wheel to
highlight the first number of
your Access Code.
2. Press ENTER to choose that
number.
3. Repeat for all numbers of
your Access Code.
4. When the last digit in your
code has been entered, you
will see the first page of your
ballot.

:crazy:

ACCESS ACCESS CODE
Código de accesso
4192
Date: 11-07-2000
Time: 15:42:21
Place: Mesa Elementary

1. Turn the SELECT wheel until your
choice is highlighted in blue.
2. Press ENTER. The box to the left
of your choice will turn red to
show your vote.
3. The blue highlight bar will move to
the next contest title.
4. Continue through the ballot until
you have voted all the contests
you wish to vote.
5. You may use the PREV or NEXT
buttons at any time to move
through the ballot.

http://www.oc.ca.gov/election/eslate/welcome_to_eslate.pdf

[la la]

54. my experience, as well

I loved the final instruction--

'You may now leave the voting booth'! Which I announced, as I left. " I'm leaving the voting booth now". I got some looks, but didn't get thrown out - all the poll workers were repubs, too! ;>)

[OldLeftieLawyer]

58. That's IT!!

Thank you!

[texpatriot2004]

15. Sounds like the Hart-InterCivic machines used in Harris Co. TX

The same broken system is being used now and, so far, will be used until possibly 2007.

The machines are still using the same secret software to count the votes too.

PS I still have my stubs from voting on these sham machines. In 2002 my vote changed right before my eyes and guess what, my guy Ron Kirk lost to that cheating Cornyn.

[Dora]

17. Weird.

I think the weirdest step in your experience was being told which booth to use. That's never happened to me, and I'm pretty sure our county is using the same machines as you (our machines are dial-operated too).

There's no reason on this not-so-green earth to "assign" a voter to a particular booth. Will you complain?

[LostinVA]

18. I always been told what booth to go to

For years -- to expedite traffic flow. This was way before Diebold. Of course, it was also way before being given a number, too... that's the part that freaks ME out...

[OldLeftieLawyer]

22. See, here's where they have me (and other voters)

What's the complaint going to be? On what grounds?

If I'd voiced an objection then and there - which I failed to do because I am one stupid OldLeftieLawyer - perhaps it might have generated something that might be interpreted as akin to "appealable error."

But, I went along with it. What's to complain about? Believe me, our city/county of Alexandria is known as "The People's Republic Of Alexandria," and there's no bluer place. They'd just tell me that that was how they were instructed to do it.

[VaYallaDawg]

20. Much similar process to mine this morning in Henrico County.

This was the first time they've had the touch screens at my precinct. But they've always told voters which both to use (I vote at the Jewish Comm. Ctr.). We previously had those punch-cards with the little cipher (hate those things - they're the hanging chad kind). The touch screen worked OK for me - at least I damn sure hope it did. When the final "review" screen came up, it had all the correct choices before I touched the red "vote" button. After that, who knows what happens!

[ReadTomPaine]

23. Odd process to say the least.

Indeed, why booth number six? Is that the designated "Democratic" machine? The 'lottery' number aspect also seems odd. I've never experienced anything of this kind and I've been voting a very long time.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

24. Hey, you.....

This is the designated People's Republic of Alexandria. They're all Democratic machines.

At least, that's how they start.


;)

[Tom Rinaldo]

27. "The appearance of a possible conflict" is a legal principal, is it not?

Judges are excused from cases because something about their background indicates that their participation on that case could give the appearance of being biased, without anyone having to prove that in fact they are biased.

They Judge who was initially assigned to hear the Tom DeLay case was dismissed, not because anyone could prove he would not be fair, but because his prior donation to MoveOn.org could possible give that appearance. That's all it took for him to be taken off the case.

So here we have a voter with a known political affiliation being told exactly which machine to use to have their vote recorded. There is no paper trail for that machine. The software being used is proprietary. There should be enough established legal principle to attack this practice. It provides the appearance of unfair elections. In our society "giving an appearance of possible injustice" is understood to have a chilling effect on our citizens trust in the rule of law.

Being told exactly which machine I am supposed to vote on, after my party affiliation has been identified, without recourse to any verifiable means to ensure that my vote was tabulated correctly, sure as hell gives me the appearance of possible injustice.

This entire thread is about people not being able to trust whether their votes are being counted as cast. There is no greater threat to Democracy than to have voters lose faith in the system of voting.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

33. It's part of the Canon of Ethics

It's not a law.

[Tom Rinaldo]

36. True, but laws are enacted by elected representatives

They are sworn to uphold our Democracy which exists to reflect the will of the people freely expressed and exercised. The threat to our Democracy posed by merely the appearance of potentially rigged elections is irrefutable, the actual rigging does not have to be proved. The logic underlying all of the above assertions is not unclear and it is not controversial. All three branches of our government take oaths to protect our form of government.

I know, tell it to the judge...

[OldLeftieLawyer]

38. Uh oh

Your words got away from you again, I can tell.

This happens.

But, you made me laugh, so that's real good.

[lynne]

28. My precinct was a little different -

- this was our first year with the touchscreen.

They checked my ID and verified my info. Gave me a card that said "registration verified" and sent me to another table.

At that table I got what looked like a credit card. I then chose whichever machine I wanted, popped in the card, touched my choices and it recorded my vote.

No problem. I really liked the old machine where you moved a lever down but this seemed very simple.

[DancingBear]

30. Fauquier County - northern VA - we had the electronic/paper option

As soon as I was verified as a voter (done by checking my name/address off a master list) I was asked if i would like to use a machine or a paper ballot.

I chose the paper ballot, went into the booth, filled in the appropriate 'bubbles" on the sheet, then sent it into a counter. If all polling places were like this I would feel some degree of confidence that the votes actually count today.

That being said, I am scared shitless that they are about to steal another one here in VA.

[onenote]

31. what exactly makes you think your vote was stolen?

Voters don't register by party in Virginia. There is nothing to distinguish you from any other voter. Sure, your name and address. But what does that tell them that they didn't know under earlier voting systems?

I don't doubt that there is (and has been for time immemorial) hanky-panky on election day. I just can't figure out how this grand theft that everyone is so certain is occuring actually occurs, particularly without anyone who works for the varied companies that manufacture these machines, or the numerous people who tabulate the votes, opening their mouths.

onenote

[OldLeftieLawyer]

32. Oh, I don't know

Things like memories of how the votes in Florida were never really tabulated, and how the hired Republican operatives from DC went busting down the doors at the recount places, effectively stopping it from going forth.

Diebold. A name that can exist as any number of other names.

Ohio in 2004, when precincts in solidly Kerry territory went all for George W. Bush.

It never occurred to me that anything like party affiliation would enter into this matter. I just have what I think is a well-founded and healthy distrust of this current system that seems, without fail, to favor Republicans, leaves no paper trail, and is impossible to recount.

The more steps there are in a process, the more opportunities there are to corrupt the process.

[DancingBear]

34. Or in Ohio, where I worked as a Precinct Captain on Election Day 2004

And found the solidly Republican precinct I was assigned to magically received 10 extra machines, while the poorer (read: minority) Dem precinct that one of my co-workers voted in received 6 fewer machines.

You know - stuff like that.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

35. Yeah, like that

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but two Presidential elections later, I'm just having trouble ascribing all these anomalies to coincidence.

[onenote]

46. I agree that there is/has been/probably always will be vote rigging

I just was curious if there was something in particular about the set up in this instance that raised a red flag. I voted in Virginia this morning in a part of the state that uses the WinVote touch screen. I can't say that I particularly like it, but I don't know that I think its any more or less susceptible to tampering than the older voting machines that they used in my precinct for the past 20 years or so...

One other quick story: for several years after I finished school, I lived in DC but kept my Virginia voting registration at my parents address. When I would go to vote, my best friend's mom, who was one of the poll workers, would always come up to me and remind me not to give my DC address when I got to the front of the line. Anyway, she told me this story about how they were checking absentee ballots one year and they noticed a ballot from someone who had recently died. Apparently, he voted absentee the day before he passed away. A debate ensued among the poll workers as to whether the vote should be counted. Two workers said yes, two said no. My friend's mom was on the fence. Then she noticed that the ballot was filled out with a straight Democratic ticket and sided with those who wanted to count it. As a legal matter, it turns out she was right, but the motivation was simply political.

onenote

[OldLeftieLawyer]

49. Great story,

and of course, the ballot had to be counted - but how nice it was a straight D ticket.

My voting experience here in Alexandria this morning was different from anything I've ever encountered. We are a Democratic stronghold, but that's where the trust is highest, I believe.

There are now two extra steps in the voting process - the Registration Verification leading to the assignation of the Registration Number, and the assigned voting booth. In my long life, I've learned that the best way to muck up something so that you can get what you want is to make it so complicated, either people will give up and quit, or people will get confused and do the wrong thing from what they intended. Remember Florida and the ballots that so confused elderly Jews that they ended up voting for Adolf Buchanan by accident?

In all my years of Virginia voting - 30+ - it was never this complicated, and, frankly, I'm suspicious. If it wasn't broke, why mess with it?

I also put nothing past Republican operatives.

But, that was a great story, and good for your mother's friend, good for you for keeping your VA voting registration.

Thanks.

[onenote]

51. thanks...it was simpler in fairfax county

The first step of the process was the same as it always has been..I give my name and address to one person who looks it up on the voter rolls and calls it out to another person who checks off my name. Only new thing was that I had to show a form of ID (drivers license), although the signs made clear that if you didn't have ID you could sign a verification and they'd let you vote.

Once my name was checked off, I was given a yellow card that said "voter permit" (or something like that). I took it up to the ballot box where a poll worker took the card and, using a plastic card, activated the machine. She then left me to cast my vote, which simply involved highlighting (by touch) the votes I wanted to cast. Once done, I pressed "next" which gave me a review of the votes I was going to cast. I could've gone back and changed my vote at that point or, since everything was as I intended it, I pushed next again and got a screen with the word "VOTE" on it. When I touched that, I was done.

My precinct went for Kerry by a 2 to 1 margin last year, so I'll be interested to see what the numbers look like in the Kaine/Kilgore race.

onenote

[NMDemDist2]

37. 'k OLL, time to figure out how to start a class action suit for voters

now that the GAO has come out and said these machines can't be trusted, I'm ready to sue the bastards.

I just voted for 3 measley school district measures but when I saw "ESS" on the scanner my heart just sunk

can we sue the bastards? can we? can we PLEEEEZE???????????

let's sue em, really! You and me, with the help of our 80K close friends here at DU should just SUE THE BASTARDS!

Let's go get em!

[OldLeftieLawyer]

39. Someone will figure it

I'm certain someone will, and then they'll do it even harder to the Republicans than they've done it to us.

How did it ever come to this, that Diebold, the old Bush family buddy, the huge campaign contributor, gets to make the voting machines? And who know who is really who behind those corporate veils?

It won't be a class action suit, I don't think (they're hard werk), but, rather, some right-minded geek type who will crack it open like the sizzling fissue where Cheney's soul used to be.

Now, calm down and go eat a cookie.

I just found a recipe for Seven Layer Cookies......

[NMDemDist2]

40. I don't want a freaking cookie

I WANT TO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!!!!!!


x(





Ok I'll go have a cookie


:cry:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

42. How about

if I promise you that we'll get to do both in our lifetime?

The cookie recipe will be there in a second -------------------->

In the meantime, maybe this will make you feel better (it's what we're gonna do to them Repugs):

[petgoat]

43. Your story about being told what machine to use is creepy.

What if they had six different ballot boxes and they said "you put yours
in #6" and told someone else to use #2 and someone else to use #4?

[onenote]

47. it would be weird, but how would it work in terms of vote rigging

As I've said, I have no doubt that vote rigging occurs, I'm just trying to figure out how people think its done and how telling person A to use one machine and person B to use another makes a difference. To be honest, I have no idea how these machines work...what sort of information they record.

onenote

[OldLeftieLawyer]

53. Here's what I find to be the salient variable

The specific designation.

Eight booths, eight empty booths.

Why must I take my SPECIFIC Registration Number to a SPECIFIC booth?

It makes no sense, and when something doesn't make sense, it breeds suspicion.

How is it done? I don't know. There are geeks who know how to do it. The other day, for a novel I'm planning to write, I asked a friend of mine who knows everything about that world of computers, how I would steal money from someone's account and make it untraceable into an account that could only be accessed by me.

I had his long, detailed, perfect answer in five minutes.

[countingbluecars]

41. I voted early this morning

in Loudoun County. Things seemed to go smoothly here, but we use the scan type ballot. I have had five phone calls from the Kilgore campaign today urging me to vote. I was thinking they were desperate until I got online and read about the voting problems. I now have that familiar sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.

[Va Lefty]

44. I voted via Optical Scan today

Harrisonburg VA. Voted on my way to work this am at 6:10. Was 9th voter. Nothing unusual except being asked for ID, was last year too-new state law. We have a Dem. (Lowell Fulk) running for Va State Legislature that has a very good chance of winning. In this very Conservative area that would be huge! Go Fulk!!

[CrispyQ]

48. I'm collecting some examples & penning a LTTE even though

I'm in a different state.

It's only through LTTEs that we will get this issue in the daylight. Our fucking media sure isn't going to do it!

[cosmicdot]

50. directing you to a specific booth is curious

It shouldn't matter which one is used.

Using the old lever system in VA, the poll workers might direct someone to the next available machine, but that was random.

The direction should have been: your choice.

Born-n-Bred Virginian (now, out West), I can't recall if registration was once by party. Has that been changed by the GOP in recent years? I thought it was once by party, as imo, it should be for, i.e. primaries. If so, when was this changed? When you registered was there party designation?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

52. I registered more than 30 years ago

Never asked for a party designation.

That was, indeed, curious, the booth specification.

I am going to try hard tonight not to look for results until I'm properly sedated. I got this bad, bad feeling for Tim Kaine, and all of us Virgins.

[Catchawave]

55. We had a choice between punch and computer

I chose the punch ballot, checked for hanging chads, then fed it to a big hungry machine. I was voter #676. I hope it counted :)

[WMliberal]

56. I voted on a Diebold Accuvote TSX in SE VA. No paper trail either.

It's real easy to vote on it, but there is no way to show the results of MY vote. The machine only tallies the number for each candidate. No receipt to prove the machine counted what I told it to.

[lostnfound]

57. Hmm. Exactly the same process in Harris Co. TX

Hart-InterCivic. Never thought about why they would tell me what machine to use. But they did.

[JayWyss]

59. Voted in Henrico County today

The process was much simpler than described above...
I told the woman my name and showed my ID
They gave me a ticket and showed me to a touch screen voting machine
Very simple, very easy.

I don't think my vote was stolen...no offense but, old people (Hey, I'm 20) generally have no idea how to work electronics properly and these definitely struck me as those type.


It was a WinGate voting machine

[OldLeftieLawyer]

60. You're 20?

We invented those machines, so bite me, child.

:)