nuclear option? BRING IT ON!

[unblock]

if the early buzz is any indication, the republicans are preparing to defend a filibuster threat with the "nuclear option".

this is basically an end-run around the existing senate rules, by which, essentially, banana republicans lie about the existing senate rules in order to bypass a filibuster.

basically, it requires 60 votes to break a filibuster, and any rules change can itself be filibustered. but an interpretation of the rules cannot be filibustered. so essentially, the banana republicans will engineer a situation in which they will, interpret filibusters to not exist and uphold that decision with a simple majority vote.

in doing so, they will discard a very long-standing senate tradition for the sake of political expedience of installing a banana republican extremist judge that can't muster 60 votes.


well, i say, BRING IT ON!

shrub is weakened, and i sincerely hope that the alito nomination is torpedoed in favor of someone more moderate. however, if alito does wind up on the court, here's how i'd like it to play out:

democrats filibuster.

banana republicans use the nuclear option.

democrats use the nuclear option tactic as a campaign issue to point out the desperate need for a democratically-controlled senate, and also point out how extreme the banana republicans are and how they have no respect for tradition and governance.

i think the nuclear option will go over about as well as the gingrich-engineered government shutdown during the clinton years. granted, a shutdown of government services has a more direct impact on people, but i still think that now, at this time, the nuclear option can much better be portrayed as an extremist move by an extremist party to install an extremist judge.

plus, the timing is right, to make use of it going into the 2006 campaign season.

BRING IT ON!

[Kolesar]

1. The Nuclear Option will mean that Cheney has to make an arbitrary ruling

Cheney will be brought in to preside over the Senate and issue this "opinion" on the rules change. By January, when this hearings take place, Darth Cheney's name should be all over the Plame leak investigation. We could make the "nuclear option" about Cheney.

[PDittie]

2. I say we

fuck them up.

[still_one]

4. if we can

since they control a majority in both houses it will be difficult unless moderate repukes join in

[Conservativesux]

6. Shut it down!! We did just fine without government before, Y not Now ?

Bring it to a halt !!!!

[still_one]

3. I agree

what will be interesting is if so-called pro-choice moderate repukes will join the filibuster?

even libermann said he would probably join the filibuster over alito

the only way they will exercise the nuclear option is if they have the votes. If it gets down to that, eventually the democrats will have control again, and the repukes will receive their own medicine, only it worse because of the polarization and hate they have generated throughout the years

[WePurrsevere]

5. *IF* it looks like this guy has enough votes to get appointed...

I agree since they'll be the ones that look bad and are shooting themselves in the foot for future use of the filibuster.

However I'm sort of hoping that we can avoid such extreme measures. From what I've read (when I've had time) he's so extreme that it sounds like even some of the sane moderate Repub's may join the Dems and not vote for him so he'd be shot down... (Is it at all possible that this could be a part of the game plan? Nom an extreme RW to appease the fundie base, let him be shot down by the Senate and then nom'd a more moderate person? hmm... Nah... I'm not going to give BushCo credit for that much intelligence. :freak: )

[C_U_L8R]

7. Bring It On ???

Screw That.

FIRST STRIKE.

It's the only strategy that will pound these
the evil reich wing scurge back into the darkness
where it belongs. Like a punch a nose... over and over.
We have to be relentless.

[Rex_Goodheart]

8. Well, I admire your optimism...

but this is where the stupidity of that 14 Senator "compromise" becomes even more apparent.

When the Republicans nuke the filibuster they will certainly paint it as a necessary political reaction to Democrats breaking their promise not to filibuster except under extreme circumstances.

I have yet to see how that "compromise" in any way benefited us.

[rfkrfk]

9. 'unanimous consent', is not all that 'traditional'

what people refer to as 'filibuster', needs
the threat of denying 'unanimous consent' to make it work.

I believe U-C started in the Tom Daschle - Bob Dole era,
does anyone know for sure?

[unblock]

14. 60 votes is nowhere close to unanimous consent

and the filibuster is over 150 years old. i believe it was first used in the 1830s.

[rfkrfk]

15. the filibuster 'morphed', in recent times

{in recent times, the 1990s, I think}

the modern filibuster is, a gentleman's agreement -->
if some procedural matter does not have 60 votes,

under the threat of witholding 'unanimous consent' for routine matters,
the majority agrees to 'table' the troublesome issue,
so that all other business continues. this is the neo - filibuster.

modern 'filibuster', does not include the
traditional-filibuster's talkathon.

Have you seen the 1936 movie,'Mister Smith Goes to Washington'?

[unblock]

17. actually, "filibuster" is used for any of a variety of delaying tactics

the delaying tactics have indeed "morphed" over the years, but for well over 150 years, there have always been ways for a determined minority to create delays in order to avoid losing a simple majority vote.

the current threat of the "nuclear option" essentially involves the vice-president, in his role as president of the senate, ruling that filibusters are against the rules (ignoring the inconvenient fact that they are completely within the rules) and having a simple majority confirm this decision. at this point, there would be no identified way of filibustering, as this trick could be used just as well to override any other delaying tactic as well.


in my view, use of the "nuclear option" would go a long way toward costing the banana republicans the senate, and the democrats would do well to pay them back by refusing to reinstate the filibuster until the democrats get their own pick installed on the supreme court.

[LynneSin]

10. Reid had a plan to counter the nuclear filibuster and it was a great one

There is an rule for the senate that allows you to bring bills directly to the flow and bypass committee. Technically everything goes through the committee; however, a senator can invoke this rule and bring something directly to the floor - it's used sparingly, mainly in times of national emergency.

However, Reid already came out once and said that if the republicans try and go nuclear on the filibuster then he would use this rule in order to bring 11 bills directly to the floor. And these aren't just any 11 bills, these are bills that will basically force senators to vote on such straight forward issues like the war, taxes, education, choice, minimum wage, health care and other issues - and these bills are straight forward enough that a vote against them could be very dangerous to a Republican running for re-election campaign that suddenly has to explain why he doesn't support working class tax-cuts or a raise in the minumum wage.

It's a good strategy and we need to bring it on!!

[Rex_Goodheart]

11. The obvious question...

If it's so great, why isn't he doing that ALREADY?

[LynneSin]

12. Several reasons

First - the rule is used for only emergencies. Second, because if we drop this bombshell now then we lose our ability to fight the nuclear filibuster. This is a rule used that if the Japanese bomb pearl harbor we can give the president the ability to counter back without months of it sitting in committee.

It's a dangerous tool that both sides have only used in times of national crisis.

[rfkrfk]

16. who decides what an 'emergency' is? n/t

[mzmolly]

18. I really like Reid.

He's a fighter.

[Kazak]

13. Agreed! Call their bluff!!

I don't believe they'll have the votes to carry the NO out, and even if they do...it'll be the worst mistake they ever made in the long run.