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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 11:11 AM
Original message
John Kerry - “The Path Forward” Speech
Edited on Wed Oct-26-05 11:16 AM by kerrygoddess
John Kerry - “The Path Forward”
October 26th, 2005

The following is an advance copy of John Kerry’s speech today at Georgetown University:

“The Path Forward”
Georgetown University
October 26, 2005

A few weeks ago I departed Iraq from Mosul. Three Senators and staff were gathered in the forward part of a C-130. In the middle of the cavernous cargo hold was a simple, aluminum coffin with a small American flag draped over it. We were bringing another American soldier, just killed, home to his family and final resting place.

The starkness of his coffin in the center of the hold, the silence except for the din of the engines, was a real time cold reminder of the consequences of decisions for which we Senators share responsibility.

As we arrived in Kuwait, a larger flag was transferred to fully cover his coffin and we joined graves registration personnel in giving him an honor guard as he was ceremoniously carried from the plane to a waiting truck. When the doors clunked shut, I wondered why all of America would not be allowed to see him arrive at Dover Air Force Base instead of hiding him from a nation that deserves to mourn together in truth and in the light of day. His lonely journey compels all of us to come to grips with our choices in Iraq.

Now more than 2,000 brave Americans have given their lives, and several hundred thousand more have done everything in their power to wade through the ongoing internal civil strife in Iraq. An Iraq which increasingly is what it was not before the war — a breeding ground for homegrown terrorists and a magnet for foreign terrorists. We are entering a make or break six month period, and I want to talk about the steps we must take if we hope to bring our troops home within a reasonable timeframe from an Iraq that’s not permanently torn by irrepressible conflict.

It is never easy to discuss what has gone wrong while our troops are in constant danger. I know this dilemma first-hand. After serving in war, I returned home to offer my own personal voice of dissent. I did so because I believed strongly that we owed it to those risking their lives to speak truth to power. We still do.

In fact, while some say we can’t ask tough questions because we are at war, I say no - in a time of war we must ask the hardest questions of all. It’s essential if we want to correct our course and do what’s right for our troops instead of repeating the same mistakes over and over again. No matter what the President says, asking tough questions isn’t pessimism, it’s patriotism.

Our troops have served with stunning bravery and resolve. The nobility of their service to country can never be diminished by the mistakes of politicians. American families who have lost, or who fear the loss, of their loved ones deserve to know the truth about what we have asked them to do, what we are doing to complete the mission, and what we are doing to prevent our forces from being trapped in an endless quagmire.

Some people would rather not have that discussion. They’d rather revise and rewrite the story of our involvement in Iraq for the history books. Tragically, that’s become standard fare from an administration that doesn’t acknowledge facts generally, whether they are provided by scientists, whistle-blowers, journalists, military leaders, or the common sense of every citizen. At a time when many worry that we have become a society of moral relativists, too few worry that we have a government of factual relativists.

Let’s be straight about Iraq. Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator who deserves his own special place in hell. But that was not the reason America went to war.

The country and the Congress were misled into war. I regret that we were not given the truth; as I said more than a year ago, knowing what we know now, I would not have gone to war in Iraq. And knowing now the full measure of the Bush Administration’s duplicity and incompetence, I doubt there are many members of Congress who would give them the authority they abused so badly. I know I would not. The truth is, if the Bush Administration had come to the United States Senate and acknowledged there was no “slam dunk case” that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, acknowledged that Iraq was not connected to 9/11, there never would have even been a vote to authorize the use of force — just as there’s no vote today to invade North Korea, Iran, Cuba, or a host of regimes we rightfully despise.

I understand that as much as we might wish it, we can’t rewind the tape of history. There is, as Robert Kennedy once said, ‘enough blame to go around,’ and I accept my share of the responsibility. But the mistakes of the past, no matter who made them, are no justification for marching ahead into a future of miscalculations and misjudgments and the loss of American lives with no end in sight. We each have a responsibility, to our country and our conscience, to be honest about where we should go from here. It is time for those of us who believe in a better course to say so plainly and unequivocally.

We are where we are. The President’s flippant “bring it on” taunt to the insurgents has found a meaning beyond his wildest expectations, a painful reality for troops who went for too long without protective armor. We have traded a dictator for a chaos that has left America less secure, and the mission the President once declared accomplished remains perilously incomplete.

To set a new course, we must be strong, smart, and honest. As we learned painfully during the Vietnam War, no president can sustain a war without the support of the American people. In the case of Iraq, their patience is frayed and nearly to the breaking point because Americans will not tolerate our troops giving their lives without a clear strategy, and will not tolerate vague platitudes or rosy scenarios when real answers are urgently needed.

It’s time for leaders to be honest that if we do not change course, there is the prospect of indefinite, even endless conflict - a fate untenable for our troops, and a future unacceptable to the American people and the Iraqis who pray for the day when a stable Iraq will belong to Iraqis alone.

The path forward will not be easy. The administration’s incompetence and unwillingness to listen has made the task that much harder, and reduced what we can expect to accomplish. But there is a way forward that gives us the best chance both to salvage a difficult situation in Iraq, and to save American and Iraqi lives. With so much at stake, we must follow it.

We must begin by acknowledging that our options in Iraq today are not what they should be, or could have been.

The reason is simple. This Administration hitched their wagon to ideologues, excluding those who dared to tell the truth, even leaders of their own party and the uniformed military.

When after September 11th, flags flew from porches across America and foreign newspaper headlines proclaimed “We’re all Americans now,” the Administration could have kept the world united, but they chose not to. And they were wrong. Instead, they pushed allies away, isolated America, and lost leverage we desperately need today.

When they could have demanded and relied on accurate instead of manipulated intelligence, they chose not to. They were wrong - and instead they sacrificed our credibility at home and abroad.

When they could have given the inspectors time to discover whether Saddam Hussein actually had weapons of mass destruction, when they could have paid attention to Ambassador Wilson’s report, they chose not to. And they were wrong. Instead they attacked him, and they attacked his wife to justify attacking Iraq. We don’t know yet whether this will prove to be an indictable offense in a court of law, but for it, and for misleading a nation into war, they will be indicted in the high court of history. History will judge the invasion of Iraq one of the greatest foreign policy misadventures of all time.

But the mistakes were not limited to the decision to invade. They mounted, one upon another.

When they could have listened to General Shinseki and put in enough troops to maintain order, they chose not to. They were wrong. When they could have learned from George Herbert Walker Bush and built a genuine global coalition, they chose not to. They were wrong. When they could have implemented a detailed State Department plan for reconstructing post-Saddam Iraq, they chose not to. And they were wrong again. When they could have protected American forces by guarding Saddam Hussein’s ammo dumps where there were weapons of individual destruction, they exposed our young men and women to the ammo that now maims and kills them because they chose not to act. And they were wrong. When they could have imposed immediate order and structure in Baghdad after the fall of Saddam, Rumsfeld shrugged his shoulders, said Baghdad was safer than Washington, D.C. and chose not to act. He was wrong. When the Administration could have kept an Iraqi army selectively intact, they chose not to. They were wrong. When they could have kept an entire civil structure functioning to deliver basic services to Iraqi citizens, they chose not to. They were wrong. When they could have accepted the offers of the United Nations and individual countries to provide on the ground peacekeepers and reconstruction assistance, they chose not to. They were wrong. When they should have leveled with the American people that the insurgency had grown, they chose not to. Vice President Cheney even absurdly claimed that the “insurgency was in its last throes.” He was wrong.

Now after all these mistakes, the Administration accuses anyone who proposes a better course of wanting to cut and run. But we are in trouble today precisely because of a policy of cut and run. This administration made the wrong choice to cut and run from sound intelligence and good diplomacy; to cut and run from the best military advice; to cut and run from sensible war time planning; to cut and run from their responsibility to properly arm and protect our troops; to cut and run from history’s lessons about the Middle East; to cut and run from common sense.

And still today they cut and run from the truth.

This difficult road traveled demands the unvarnished truth about the road ahead.

To those who suggest we should withdraw all troops immediately - I say No. A precipitous withdrawal would invite civil and regional chaos and endanger our own security. But to those who rely on the overly simplistic phrase “we will stay as long as it takes,” who pretend this is primarily a war against Al Qaeda, and who offer halting, sporadic, diplomatic engagement, I also say - No, that will only lead us into a quagmire.

The way forward in Iraq is not to pull out precipitously or merely promise to stay “as long as it takes.” To undermine the insurgency, we must instead simultaneously pursue both a political settlement and the withdrawal of American combat forces linked to specific, responsible benchmarks. At the first benchmark, the completion of the December elections, we can start the process of reducing our forces by withdrawing 20,000 troops over the course of the holidays.

The Administration must immediately give Congress and the American people a detailed plan for the transfer of military and police responsibilities on a sector by sector basis to Iraqis so the majority of our combat forces can be withdrawn. No more shell games, no more false reports of progress, but specific and measurable goals.

It is true that our soldiers increasingly fight side by side with Iraqis willing to put their lives on the line for a better future. But history shows that guns alone do not end an insurgency. The real struggle in Iraq - Sunni versus Shiia - will only be settled by a political solution, and no political solution can be achieved when the antagonists can rely on the indefinite large scale presence of occupying American combat troops.

In fact, because we failed to take advantage of the momentum of our military victory, because we failed to deliver services and let Iraqis choose their leaders early on, our military presence in vast and visible numbers has become part of the problem, not the solution.

And our generals understand this. General George Casey, our top military commander in Iraq, recently told Congress that our large military presence “feeds the notion of occupation” and “extends the amount of time that it will take for Iraqi security forces to become self-reliant.” And Richard Nixon’s Secretary of Defense Melvin Laird, breaking a thirty year silence, writes, ‘’Our presence is what feeds the insurgency, and our gradual withdrawal would feed the confidence and the ability of average Iraqis to stand up to the insurgency.” No wonder the Sovereignty Committee of the Iraqi Parliament is already asking for a timetable for withdrawal of our troops; without this, Iraqis believe Iraq will never be its own country.

We must move aggressively to reduce popular support for the insurgency fed by the perception of American occupation. An open-ended declaration to stay ‘as long as it takes’ lets Iraqi factions maneuver for their own political advantage by making us stay as long as they want, and it becomes an excuse for billions of American tax dollars to be sent to Iraq and siphoned off into the coffers of cronyism and corruption.

It will be hard for this Administration, but it is essential to acknowledge that the insurgency will not be defeated unless our troop levels are drawn down, starting immediately after successful elections in December. The draw down of troops should be tied not to an arbitrary timetable, but to a specific timetable for transfer of political and security responsibility to Iraqis and realignment of our troop deployment. That timetable must be real and strict. The goal should be to withdraw the bulk of American combat forces by the end of next year. If the Administration does its work correctly, that is achievable.

Our strategy must achieve a political solution that deprives the Sunni-dominated insurgency of support by giving the Sunnis a stake in the future of their country. The Constitution, opposed by more than two thirds of Sunnis, has postponed and even exacerbated the fundamental crisis of Iraq. The Sunnis want a strong secular national government that fairly distributes oil revenues. Shiites want to control their own region and resources in a loosely united Islamic state. And Kurds simply want to be left alone. Until sufficient compromise is hammered out, a Sunni base can not be created that isolates the hard core Baathists and jihaadists and defuses the insurgency.

The Administration must use all of the leverage in America’s arsenal - our diplomacy, the presence of our troops, and our reconstruction money — to convince Shiites and Kurds to address legitimate Sunni concerns and to make Sunnis accept the reality that they will no longer dominate Iraq. We cannot and should not do this alone.

The Administration must bring to the table the full weight of all of Iraq’s Sunni neighbors. They also have a large stake in a stable Iraq. Instead of just telling us that Iraq is falling apart, as the Saudi foreign minister did recently, they must do their part to put it back together. We’ve proven ourselves to be a strong ally to many nations in the region. Now it’s their turn to do their part.

The administration must immediately call a conference of Iraq’s neighbors, Britain, Turkey and other key NATO allies, and Russia. All of these countries have influence and ties to various parties in Iraq. Together, we must implement a collective strategy to bring the parties in Iraq to a sustainable political compromise. This must include obtaining mutual security guarantees among Iraqis themselves. Shiite and Kurdish leaders need to make a commitment not to perpetrate a bloodbath against Sunnis in the post-election period. In turn, Sunni leaders must end support for the insurgents, including those who are targeting Shiites. And the Kurds must explicitly commit themselves not to declare independence.

To enlist the support of Iraq’s Sunni neighbors, we should commit to a new regional security structure that strengthens the security of the countries in the region and the wider community of nations. This requires a phased process including improved security assistance programs, joint exercises, and participation by countries both outside and within the Middle East.

Ambassador Khalilzad is doing a terrific job trying broker a better deal between the Iraqi parties. But he can’t do it alone. The President should immediately appoint a high level envoy to maximize our diplomacy in Iraq and the region.

Showing Sunnis the benefits that await them if they continue to participate in the process of building Iraq can go a long way toward achieving stability. We should press these countries to set up a reconstruction fund specifically for the majority Sunni areas. It’s time for them to deliver on their commitments to provide funds to Iraq. Even short-term improvements, like providing electricity and supplying diesel fuel - an offer that the Saudis have made but have yet to fulfill - can make a real difference.

We need to jump start our own lagging reconstruction efforts by providing the necessary civilian personnel to do the job, standing up civil-military reconstruction teams throughout the country, streamlining the disbursement of funds to the provinces so they can deliver services, expanding job creation programs, and strengthening the capacity of government ministries.

We must make it clear now that we do not want permanent military bases in Iraq, or a large combat force on Iraqi soil indefinitely. And as we withdraw our combat troops, we should be prepared to keep a substantially reduced level of American forces in Iraq, at the request of the Iraqi government, for the purpose of training their security forces. Some combat ready American troops will still be needed to safeguard the Americans engaged in that training, but they should be there to do that and to provide a back stop to Iraqi efforts, not to do the fighting for Iraqis.

Simultaneously, the President needs to put the training of Iraqi security forces on a six month wartime footing and ensure that the Iraqi government has the budget to deploy them. The Administration must stop using the requirement that troops be trained in-country as an excuse for refusing offers made by Egypt, Jordan, France and Germany to do more.

This week, long standing suspicions of Syrian complicity in destabilizing Lebanon were laid bare by the community of nations. And we know Syria has failed to take the aggressive steps necessary to stop former Baathists and foreign fighters from using its territory as a transit route into Iraq. The Administration must prod the new Iraqi government to ask for a multinational force to help protect Iraq’s borders until a capable national army is formed. Such a force, if sanctioned by the United Nations Security Council, could attract participation by Iraq’s neighbors and countries like India and would be a critical step in stemming the tide of insurgents and money into Iraq.

Finally, and without delay, we must fundamentally alter the deployment of American troops. While Special Operations must continue to pursue specific intelligence leads, the vast majority of our own troops should be in rear guard, garrisoned status for security backup. We do not need to send young Americans on search and destroy missions that invite alienation and deepen the risks they face. Iraqis should police Iraqis. Iraqis should search Iraqi homes. Iraqis should stand up for Iraq.

We will never be as safe as we should be if Iraq continues to distract us from the most important war we must win - the war on Osama bin Laden, Al Qaeda, and the terrorists that are resurfacing even in Afghanistan. These are the make or break months for Iraq. The President must take a new course, and hold Iraqis accountable. If the President still refuses, Congress must insist on a change in policy. If we do take these steps, there is no reason this difficult process can not be completed in 12-15 months. There is no reason Iraq cannot be sufficiently stable, no reason the majority of our combat troops can’t soon be on their way home, and no reason we can’t take on a new role in Iraq, as an ally not an occupier, training Iraqis to defend themselves. Only then will we have provided leadership equal to our soldiers’ sacrifice - and that is what they deserve.

LINK - http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=952
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. I like 20,000 troops out by 12/31/05 - most others by 12/31/06 :-)
:-)
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Most succinct plan to date from any Dem. N/T
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Greeby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
2. Even Kucinich's legislation doesn't call for that, I don't think
I could be wrong, though :shrug:
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. You're right. N/T
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aldian159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
4. What time/channel?
Thanks in advance
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. C-Span is taping - not sure if it's live N/T
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. C-SPAN
Schedule here - http://inside.c-spanarchives.org:8080/cspan/schedule.csp

CSPAN 1 -

12:38 AM EDT
1:02 Speech
U.S. Foreign Policy
Georgetown University
John F. Kerry , D-MA

04:11 AM EDT
1:02 Speech
U.S. Foreign Policy
Georgetown University
John F. Kerry , D-MA


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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
7. Too bad he didn't say this during the campaign.
NT
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Too bad the media spend the entire election cycle propping up *
Oh well, just trash and shoot the messenger.
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Too bad the dems avoided trashing Bush and then got trashed at RNC
The Dem convention was a like a bad dream. So weak and badly scripted. Meanwhile the repukes had a hatefest with Zellout and trashed the dems non-stop.

The thing that really sticks in my craw was when Kerry was at the Grand Canyon and said he'd vote for IWR again, knowing the WMD thing was a lie. And taking vacations, going snowboarding and kitesurfing. I think we learned some hard lessons, but it will be for naught if we don't address the major one: election fraud.
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. too bad 95 percent of delegates
at the DNC wanted Anti-war language in the platform. Too bad they didn't get it.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. This is the first time I heard that, can it be varified? n/t
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. here's one story
Snip>

Antiwar signs were immediately confiscated by convention officials--who Kucinich delegate Charles Underwood called “the Kerry enforcers.” “I am just very disappointed that there is no ability to express any hope for peace on the floor of this convention,” Underwood told Amy Goodman in an interview on the Democracy Now! program. “We’ve had our signs confiscated...We’ve had people that tell us to sit down and be quiet. We’ve got no particular points for peace in the platform. This is becoming an extremely narrow Democratic tent.”

He added, “It’s just that we are off message when we talk about peace. It’s that simple.” And this is how the Democratic Party treats fellow Democrats. According to a poll by the Boston Globe, 95 percent of delegates to the convention opposed the war in Iraq, yet the party adopted a pro-war platform. <snip

http://www.counterpunch.org/schulte04232005.html

Here's another:

snip> Over and over Democratic Party spokespeople said on TV: "We Democrats have never been so united." This is a lie.

The Boston Globe reports (July 26) that 80 percent of delegates at this convention opposed the Iraq war from its very beginning, and 95 percent say they oppose it now. A clear majority of the delegates (and a majority of rank-and-file Democrats nationally) support the withdrawal of U.S. troops--even if a stable U.S. puppet government has not yet been established.

<Snip

http://www.artistsnetwork.org/news13/news665.html

I've never seen the actual poll cited, but it has been referenced good and plenty, then and now.



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rfkrfk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #11
33. if so, how did the platform get approved? n/t
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. you tell me.
I suspect it was done the way such things are usually done, rammed down people's throats.
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rfkrfk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. was there a floor vote, or a state-by-state caucus vote? n/t
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. He didn't take long vacations
He wind surfed one day - during the Republican convention when Democrats trationally stay out of sight. He says it clears his head and he enjoys it - he spent the time around it prepping for the debates.

The snowboarding was a very short break during the primaries. Other than that we was working 7 very long days a week. His wife, 2 daughters and 2 of Teresa's sons were out there too. There are things you can criticize but not putting in enough time and effort aren't among them.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. Hindsight is always a bitch! n/t
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elperromagico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. Sadly, that speech will be condensed by many DUers to three letters:
I, W, and R.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. I was thinking D.N. and C.
And both are good arguments of what should have been said during Campaign 2004 :shrug:

What have we (generic) learned ? Other than it sounds like Kerry is running again? He still has that Swift Boat baggage and millions of vets that won't vote for him in 2008.

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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. No, actually it will be condensed to:
John Kerry, how can you ask a man to be the last soldier to die for a mistake?

Out Now.

Kerry's speech was a good start. Welcome back aboard the antiwar train John, we've saved your seat for you.

Out Now.
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
12. Kerry Offers Specific Starting Point for Iraq Withdrawal
Kerry Offers Specific Starting Point for Iraq Withdrawal
October 26th, 2005

The news coverage of John Kerry’s Iraq speech at Georgetown U is starting to hit this wires… Reuters reports on John Kerry’s speech today: “A number of Democrats and some Republicans have called on Bush to provide a plan for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq, but few have suggested a specific starting point.”

http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=955
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pox americana Donating Member (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
15. "Finally, and without delay. . . ."
Pun intended, I assume! :D
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
16. my top 20 responses to Kerry's speech ...
Edited on Wed Oct-26-05 09:36 PM by welshTerrier2
here are my thoughts on Kerry's speech ... btw, this full speech was much better than the PR garbage that was posted earlier today ...

1. "We are entering a make or break six month period" - what does this mean? i would have been much more comfortable if Kerry had said that if there isn't substantial progress within 6 months, he will call for immediate withdrawal ... his statement isn't clear to me ... does anyone know what Kerry's thinks should be done if the 6 months pass without progress?

2. "And knowing now the full measure of the Bush Administration’s duplicity and incompetence, I doubt there are many members of Congress who would give them the authority they abused so badly." - this is one of my core arguments for immediate withdrawal ... why would anyone support continued occupation understanding how inept bush is and worse yet, understanding his illicit motives (something i wish Kerry had discussed) in Iraq?

3. "We each have a responsibility, to our country and our conscience, to be honest about where we should go from here. It is time for those of us who believe in a better course to say so plainly and unequivocally." - yup ... that's exactly what i'm doing ... i fully agree with this statement ... the problem is, elected officials have an obligation to represent the views of the public ... this dialog is not happening adequately ... too much is being decided from the top and it doesn't reflect the public's views ...

4. "It’s time for leaders to be honest that if we do not change course, there is the prospect of indefinite, even endless conflict - a fate untenable for our troops, and a future unacceptable to the American people and the Iraqis who pray for the day when a stable Iraq will belong to Iraqis alone." - bush just said we have to "stay the course" ... if bush refuses to define a specific plan for progress, will Kerry call for immediate withdrawal? Kerry's speech lays out what bush "should do"; he isn't clear about what he will do if bush refuses ...

5. "The administration’s incompetence and unwillingness to listen has made the task that much harder, and reduced what we can expect to accomplish." - again, how can you call for more war with an administration that is incompetent and unwilling to listen? ... and if they're unwilling to listen to Kerry, what then is his position and how much longer will he wait to call for immediate withdrawal?

6. "When they could have listened to ... they chose not to" - again, Kerry does a good job showing how "tone deaf" this administration is ... they don't hear; they don't learn; they don't care ... given that, i don't see how Kerry's plan does anything but buy bush more time ... the withdrawal movement is growing like a tidal wave and all politicians are worried about drowning in next year's midterms ... that's where the leverage and the power are ...

7. "A precipitous withdrawal would invite civil and regional chaos and endanger our own security." - Kerry should have elaborated on this important topic ... he should have acknowledged that withdrawal is the majority view in this country and that it is overwhelmingly the majority view in Iraq ... he also should have addressed the idea that the occupation is making us less safe, not more safe ... that too is a majority view ... this one sentence dismissal was most unfortunate ...

8. "withdrawal of American combat forces linked to specific, responsible benchmarks." - this is the problem ... what are the benchmarks? who measures whether they're being met? Kerry seems to be calling on bush to define the benchmarks ... but, even assuming bush is willing to do this (and he won't be), the more the benchmarks are NOT met, the longer we stay in Iraq ... isn't that what Kerry is saying? ... is it wrong to say that Kerry's view is that as benchmarks are met, and NOT before, troops can be withdrawn? ... it seems to me Kerry is tying withdrawal directly to bush's competence ... please address this point in detail ... the "linkage" of withdrawal to results rather than to time is not what i call a timeline ... i would like to see time drive the withdrawal process ... that would make bush accountable for his actions ... for example, in 3 months, x% of Iraqi battalions would be independent; in 6 months, y% ... we make the plan; not bush ... and yes, he'll ignore that too but he won't be rewarded for failure the way a "you make the plan" approach will do ... otherwise, bush could make a plan that doesn't take 12 - 15 months, he could make one that takes 48 - 60 months or whatever ...

9. "And our generals understand this. General George Casey, our top military commander in Iraq, recently told Congress that our large military presence “feeds the notion of occupation” and “extends the amount of time that it will take for Iraqi security forces to become self-reliant.” - i couldn't agree more!!! ... this is one of the core "illogics" of the occupation ... but it argues against "waiting for certain objectives" as a condition of withdrawal ... it argues that achieving those objectives is made harder or impossible by occupation ... pro rata withdrawal based on the passage of time is fine; the "linkage" to results that Kerry is calling for puts the cart before the horse ...

10. "We must move aggressively to reduce popular support for the insurgency fed by the perception of American occupation." - again, few things could be more important than this understanding ... unfortunately, Kerry's plan for another 12 - 15 months and probably much, much longer when bush gets a hold of it, is just not going to sell with the Iraqi people or the insurgents ... we are occupiers and they don't want us to be there ... this is not going to convince Iraqis that we will leave their country ... yes, that's just my opinion ...

11. "it is essential to acknowledge that the insurgency will not be defeated unless our troop levels are drawn down" - again, i totally agree ... the problem is that another year or two or five is not going to sell ... it's just not going to be fast enough for the American people or the Iraqi people ...

12. "Until sufficient compromise is hammered out, a Sunni base can not be created that isolates the hard core Baathists and jihaadists and defuses the insurgency." - and yet again, i totally agree ... but the problem is that "no sufficient compromise will be hammered out" while the US maintains a huge troop presence ... withdrawal or threat of near-term withdrawal is the spark that is needed to jumpstart the negotiating process if one is to occur at all ...

13. "The Administration must bring to the table the full weight of all of Iraq’s Sunni neighbors." - i fully support involving other countries in the region in support of negotiations ... but i am deeply concerned that Kerry made no mention of Syria and especially no mention of Iran ... the importance of these countries in the process was emphasized by Democrats during the recent Senate Foreign Relations Committee's questioning of Condi Rice ... again, i strongly support the diplomatic process being called for ... Iraq has always been about a negotiated settlement of the Kurds, the Sunnis and the Shia ...

14. reconstruction issues - full agreement ... most Iraqis can't even get safe drinking water ... reconstruction efforts have been catastrophic ...

15. "We must make it clear now that we do not want permanent military bases in Iraq, or a large combat force on Iraqi soil indefinitely." - does this mean Kerry will NOT support the CONSTRUCTION of military bases that could be "permanent" or does it mean we just have to convince the Iraqis that the US will NOT occupy the permanent structures permanently? ... if we have built or will build permanent structures, and even if we don't build them, the US cannot possibly have credibly with the Iraqis as long as our troops remain in occupation ... it may be hard to understand why but they just don't trust us over there ... and they certainly will never trust bush ... all this "make it clear" language that Kerry and others have used is just a bunch of "poof" ...

16. "the President needs to put the training of Iraqi security forces on a six month wartime footing and ensure that the Iraqi government has the budget to deploy them." - this just isn't going to work ... troops we've already trained have disappeared ... most of them are woefully undertrained ... we've been at this for 2.5 years ... it's a dismal failure ... outsourcing to other countries is fine but the problem is with the students, not the teachers ... and the troops we're training are primarily Shia troops ... this is very one-sided and is sending a terrible signal to the Sunnis ... today, Sunni leaders demanded that the US leave Iraq ... the whole troop training program makes no sense ...

17. "The Administration must prod the new Iraqi government to ask for a multinational force to help protect Iraq’s borders until a capable national army is formed." - i'm not clear on what is being proposed here ... is Kerry calling for foreign troops to be stationed inside Iraq at the borders? ... this is somewhat risky on it own merits ... or is Kerry calling for occupation by a multi-national force inside Syria's borders? and what about Iran? ... is Kerry suggesting we cut-off the Iranian border with Iraq? ... will this be acceptable to the Shia in Iraq? ... i'd like to hear more about this plan ...

18. "Finally, and without delay, we must fundamentally alter the deployment of American troops. While Special Operations must continue to pursue specific intelligence leads, the vast majority of our own troops should be in rear guard, garrisoned status for security backup. We do not need to send young Americans on search and destroy missions that invite alienation and deepen the risks they face." - bravo!!! ... this is critically important and i strongly support this element of Kerry's plan ... the high visibility of American troops and their role as combat forces to suppress the Sunni insurgents was misguided from the start ... until US troops are withdrawn, they should "disappear into the sand" ...

19. "If the President still refuses, Congress must insist on a change in policy." - this is NOT a case of "IF" the President refuses, it's a case of "WHEN" he refuses ... that is the most likely reaction ... does anyone disagree with that? ... and if that's the most likely reaction, Kerry should have spelled out his plan ... "Congress must insist on a change in policy" is NOT a plan, it's a "non-plan" on the most likely scenario ... Kerry should have said that if bush won't put together a concrete plan with specific timetable objectives, we should leave Iraq immediately ... it is more than disappointing that he left this likely outcome without any definition at all ...

20. overall - ultimately, while i agree with most of Kerry's analysis of where we are today, and i agree with some of his proposals, the "deal killer" is the "LINKAGE" to positive outcomes ... an inept administration, an electorate that has had enough of this war, the Iraqi people who want us to leave today, and the negative effects of American occupation troops on any hope for progress, makes "LINKAGE" to results an unworkable plan ... trusting bush with another day in Iraq is a TERRIBLE IDEA ... his motives are corrupt and he has no interest in solving the real problems ... any plan that gives bush any more time and doesn't bring the full momentum of the rapidly growing sentiment for withdrawal lets bush live to blunder another day ... too many trusted he would act honorably with the IWR; this plan trusts him again ...

Your lengthy, thoughtful analysis of these comments is solicited ...
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. #20
So you want a negative outcome? And you think Kerry trusts Bush?
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. i said neither ... n/t
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I read an inference there.
hmmm...
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. it's unfortunate that i spend time discussing your candidate
and you provide little or no response to the many points Kerry raised and i responded to ... your choice of course ...

i don't know why you post this stuff in a discussion forum if you're not interested in discussing it ...

many policy issues were raised and analyzed and all i get back is defensive, accusatory "inferences" ... hmmmmmm ...
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #16
32. Saw this too late last night to respond.
And it's long, maybe we can take it in pieces.

First: Nice job. I appreciate the time and effort that went into it. I wish all posts on DU were this good and this specific. I wanted that out in front before we discuss the specifics. (Sometimes debates get heated on DU. In case this one does, I wanted it up front that I respect your views, respect your opinion and the thought that went into it.)

Second: It is long and I am at work. I am going to try and summarize what you are saying. I could get it wrong. Feel free to have at any suppositions I make and do corrections. I will do the same.

Okay, that said let's go. As I read this, one of the big problems you have with this is that there is no punch behind the threat. I read in your post that you think Kerry is making a 'threat' of sorts that if certain things aren't done in six months, then what happens.

The truth of that is that neither he nor the other Dems are in a position to do much of anything in Iraq. They can suggest, they can try and formulate a consistent view of Iraq that the Party can take into next year's mid-terms, but they can't do anything concrete unless they can peal some Repubs off in the House and Senate and convince them to come along. (Maybe this will happen, but I still doubt it. Beyond Chafee, Snowe and maybe Collins, which other Sens. might come over to the Dems side?)

I read the speech and my thoughts on it were that the 'what happens if six months go by and it's more of the same' as Kerry calling it a quagmire, and asking for withdrawal. I saw him asking for the 20,000 troops who will be there for the elections in Dec to come home after that election. Then he wants our troops to draw back and have Iraqi troops slowly take over the defense of their own country. I also heard another call for the US to firmly and unequivocally state that the US has no plans for premanent bases in Iraq. This seems to be a very firm position on Kerry's part and this is not the first time he has said this. (He said it, for example, in June on the Senate floor.)

Again, you raised a lot of points (and I'm at work) but it's a start.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
17. Got this part wrong, Kerry
"The way forward in Iraq is not to pull out precipitously"

What reason on God's green earth does he want to continue this occupation? It is not only a mistake, it is a crime. It is the source of much of the violence.

Iraqis are doing a great job in defending themselves against a technically advanced foreign invader, namely the US military. We should admit that this war was legally and morally wrong, and that the only right thing is to withdraw without conditions.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Didn't you read the whole speech. Immediate pull out will de-
stabilize Iraq further. An unstable Iraq is a danger to ME countries, Europe and US. He proposes allowing them the time they need to start protecting themselves and working more in a supporting roll backing up the Iraqi's. he mentions several steps and recommendations, to take them out of context and dissect them individually demeans their importance in the whole scene of things and ignores the need for continuity leading to the ultimate goal.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. I have read Bush and Kerry's reasons against an immediate pullout.
I disagree with them. I think they are wrong.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Can't argue with that, your entitled to your opinion. n/t
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TheDonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
29. CSPAN has the speech on now.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
30. Is Kerry suffering from a memory lapse?
An otherwise reasonable speech about Iraq is tainted by a false statement:

"as I said more than a year ago, knowing what we know now, I would not have gone to war in Iraq."

Kerry actually said the opposite during the 2004 Campaign, that he would still have voted for the Iraq Way Resolution even had he known then what he knows now.

Well, at least Kerry has embraced Vietnam's "strategic hamlet program" as a model to be adapted to Iraq for an eventual withdrawal. Remember that Bush's plan is victory at any price, which will lead to endless war and to ignominious defeat.

Meanwhile, at the Hillary camp, the Huns are quietly working on a secret plan to end the war. Stay tuned!
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #30
36. Not fair
Edited on Thu Oct-27-05 09:36 AM by karynnj
Kerry said many many times from fall, 2002 through Sept, 2004 (the time period that qualifies as more than one year ago.) - that he would not have gone to war. There is a huge paper trail on this and it's been posted. Kerry - even answered the David Letterman question (early Sept, 2004) if you were President, would you have gone to war with Iraq with a simple, unqualified "no". Kerry's statement incidentially would be accurate, but disengenuous even if he said it only once rather often.

The GC comment was clearly a gaffe - possibly because he misheard the question. It was the stock answer he gave to the question without the phrase "knowing what you know now". He also repeatedly said the reason he voted for the IWR was to get inspectors in and to insure Saddam had no WMD. It's even what he said in his Senate speech given before voting.

If you analyzed this as data, there are many many data points all saying the same thing and this ONE data point that is out in left field - it is clearly an outlier. Any good analysit would not ignore the hundreds of data points and rely on the SINGLE outlier that you point to.
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
37. Too little, too late. No matter how long we stay, we will NOT stabilize
anything. And clearly Haliburton is NOT rebuilding anything with the "contracts" they've been given.

Say "OUT NOW" to ALL our troops. Or call yourself a Repug. Quit being cautious, JK!

I am NOT Kerry-bashing. Would still love to see him Prez NOW. But any lives lost in Iraq now are truly "in vain." We-the-People, by a majority (as well as many in Congress at least), do NOT want them there, know the Truth of the WMD's, and have asked for our troops' withdrawal NOW.

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second edition Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
38. This is a wonderful speech from the man who should be our President
Smart, articulate and to the point. We have a plan and other Dem's now have an opportunity to come out and say they were mislead and not told the truth about Iraq by this administration.
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