Pardon me, I'm a little confused about Kerry

[NWHarkness]

I'm a Dean supporter, but my primary interest is removing the Bush junta from power, and in that light, I am getting more than a little bit tired about seeing so many good Democrats trash any of our potential nominees.

To those who are savaging John Kerry, could you please straighten something out for me?

How is Kerry both "Bush-lite" and "too liberal to win" simultaneously?

Come on folks, eyes on the prize. Kerry is not the enemy of Dean supporters, Clark supporters, or any other Democrat. Give your candidate all the enthusiastic support you can, but don't lose sight of the fact that we are engaged in a struggle that is bigger than any individual.

[molly]

1. Good questions and waiting for answers!

[sendero]

2. I've never called Kerry....

... "too liberal".

But, he is going to have a damn hard time calling Bush* on the carpet after going along with so many of his initiatives.

My other concern about Kerry is that I simply do not find him inspiring or exciting in any way. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, maybe others do. But, to put it as simply as I can - Kerry seems like a "me too" man. Nothing original, and frankly had he not jumped on the Bash Bush Bandwagon, he would not be near the top of the charts.

I'll vote for Mr. Kerry should he get the nomination. But I don't think he deserves it, nor to I think he is the best chance against Bush*.

[NWHarkness]

5. I share your concerns

My point is that there is a very high likelihood that Kerry will be our nominee. I don't believe it is in anyone's interests to do damage to him, or any of the potential nominees.

Obviously, each of us wants to make the case for the candidate we prefer, but that can be done in a constructive way, it doesn't have to take the form of criticism that weakens our eventually standard bearer.

You are right, Kerry doesn't "deserve" the nomination, but that does not mean we ought not allow the possibility of his earning it.

[blm]

6. Can you explain this then?

Kerry Shows Courage In Challenging Bush
Thursday, August 8, 2002 By: Joe Conason

New York Observer
>>>>>>>
But it was John Kerry who delivered the most interesting, substantive and challenging message. His subject was George W. Bush's shortcomings as a world leader.

The New York Times reported that Mr. Kerry "offered a long attack on Mr. Bush's foreign policy," although the paper gave short shrift to the details in the Senator''s speech. What he began to articulate was a Democratic critique of this administration''s blunt and myopic unilateralism, and a vision that restores international alliances to the center of American diplomacy.

>>>>>>>>
There is, however, at least one benefit for Mr. Kerry in speaking out on those faraway places and problems. While his rivals sound as if they''re campaigning for the offices they already occupy, he sounds as if he is running for President.

In a sense, Mr. Kerry enjoys an unfair advantage that mitigates the burden of his home state. He''s a decorated Vietnam veteran whose Navy service may help shield him from attacks on his patriotism. Throughout his years in the Senate, that credential has allowed him to investigate and criticize disturbing excesses of American policy abroad, as he did when he probed U.S. aid to the contra gangsters in Nicaragua. (That rather lonely crusade made him a target of the notorious Arkansas Project, funded by Republican billionaire Richard Mellon Scaife to bring down President Clinton.)

Whether Mr. Kerry can engage the electorate in a discussion of America''s global responsibilities is far from certain. His own dispassionate style may hinder him. Yet he deserves great credit for reclaiming international leadership for his party when others cannot or will not.

***************************

And THIS is how Dean was propping up Bush publicly in response to Kerry's attacks on Bush's leadership:

 MR. RUSSERT: Do you believe the military operation in Afghanistan has been successful?
       
       GOV. DEAN: Yes, I do, and I support the president in that military operation.
       
       MR. RUSSERT: The battle of Tora Bora was successful?
       
       GOV. DEAN: I’ve seen others criticize the president. I think it’s very easy to second-guess the
       commander-in-chief at a time of war. I don’t choose to engage in doing that.

[pnziii]

10. apples and oranges

I was for going after OBL, but against Iraq

What's your point?

[blm]

16. That wasn't the question was it?

While Bush was FAILING as a leader, Kerry pointed it out and Dean stuck up for Bush PUBLICALLY, which helped keep Bush propped up at the time.

The Conason article notes that Kerry was the only one standing against Bush publically.

The problem is that the media barely mentioned it when Kerry criticized Bush because his attacks were TOO substantive and damaging for Bush.

When Dean started attacking Bush the media gave him the whole stage because Dean's attacks were NOT substantive and not so much damaging as they were entertaining.

[beyurslf]

7. I agree.

He doesn't inspire me when he speaks. In fact, I have found myself dozing more than once while listening to him. And I am one of those weird people who enjoys watching debates. He just...is boring.

[blm]

3. Also...How is the highest rated environmentalist now a corporatist

who does the bidding of his corporate masters even though he never accepted corporate pac money?

[gWbush is Mabus]

4. in my opinion

he IS bush-lite
PA, IWR, etc.



the MEDIA will CRUSH him as an Ted Kennedy- liberal


BTW, I love Kennedy

[mobuto]

8. John Kerry is a Ted Kennedy liberal

which is why I like him, though can't support him. He's from Massachusetts, he's a political ally of Ted Kennedy, and there isn't an issue in the world that'll get Southern and border-state whites to put those two facts aside and get them to vote for him.

[pnziii]

9. He can be both

He plays Liberal to his consituents and Bush lite to the Republican power base.

Look at his voting record. He votes along with the repubs on stuff.

That's why he is establishment. Play both sides and stay in power

[NWHarkness]

13. That's simply not true

The ADA gives Kerry a lifetime voting rating of 92

>>>2004 Presidential Candidates’ Lifetime ADA Voting Ratings

Sen. John Kerry                                          92

Former Sen. Moseley Braun                      88

Rep. Dennis Kucinich                                 86

Sen. John Edwards                                      85

Sen. Joseph Lieberman                              78

Rep. Richard Gephardt                             74

Presidential Candidates General Wesley Clark, Governor Howard Dean, Reverend Al Sharpton, and President George W. Bush do not have lifetime ratings because they have never held office in either the U.S. House of Representatives or the U.S. Senate. Their stances on issues along with the candidates listed above are available on our “Issues” page. <<<

http://www.adaction.org/Campaign2004/2004PR_1/2004pr_1.HTM

[pnziii]

15. Yes it is true

Check his voting record. He has voted for things I would call republican

More wire-tapping for one!!!

[NWHarkness]

17. I did check his voting record

You might take note of the fact that I even posted a link to a site on which others can do so as well.

[pnziii]

20. Maybe you should check again

I'm sorry but my civil liberties are important to me and Kerry voted them away.


Senate Vote on Welfare Reform H.R. 3734
House and Senate approved legislation that preyed on the limited rights of vulnerable groups including children, immigrants, the poor and the elderly in the name of welfare reform. The bill also eroded free speech for not-for-profit organizations, violated the separation of church and state, and damaged privacy rights by establishing a de
facto national identification system.
Sen John Kerry voted for this Santorum & Ashcroft...

Senate Vote on Government Funding of Religious Institutions S. 1956
Government Funding of Religious Institutions - Included was a provision that could force state governments, under threat of lawsuits, to contract with religious institutions, including houses of worship, to provide taxpayer-funded social services, even if they are delivered in a proselytizing environment. This, too, was a recurring theme in the 104th Congress where opponents
of religious liberty repeatedly sought to pass provisions to lower the wall of separation between church and state.
Kerry voted against ACLU along with Santorum & Ashcroft...

How the Senate voted on Internet Censorship S.652
Internet Censorship - As part of a major overhaul of the nation's telecommunications industries, both the House and Senate approved major new censorship schemes for the Internet.constitutionality in

Kerry voted for this Even LIEberman voting only 28% w/ ACLU voted against this...


Senate Vote on Campaign Finance Reform S. 1219
Campaign Finance Reform - In a sign of widespread disillusion with the political process, both the House and Senate considered versions of campaign finance reform that the ACLU believed to be unconstitutional infringements of free speech provisions of the First Amendment.

The ACLU Urged a Vote For the First Amendment
Kerry and LIEberman voted against the First amendment... Even Ashcroft and Santorum voted for the 1st...

Senate Vote on Medical Privacy H.R 3103
Medical privacy - Hidden within the massive health care reform bill approved by Congress in the stampede for an August recess was a deceptively labeled provision that further eroded the privacy rights of all Americans. The provision, known as "administrative simplification," gives government and businesses access to
confidential medical information about individuals without their consent and establishes a unique health identification number for every patient, health provider, health plan and employer.

Kerry, LIEberman, Ashcroft, Santorum and many others voted against Medical Privacy...

Senate Vote on Immigration Legislation H.R. 2202
Immigration - Seeking to capitalize on a wave of anti-immigration initiatives, both the House and Senate passed bills that represented the most draconian and divisive immigration proposals in decades. Included were provisions that would strip the courts of jurisdiction over illegal and abusive INS actions and erect enormous and virtually insurmountable barriers for most people seeking political
asylum. The House even approved a bill that would have effectively denied public education to American citizen children of undocumented immigrants.

Kerry, LIEberman, Ashcroft, Santorum and many others voted for this...

Senate Vote on National ID Cards S. 1664
National ID Card - One of the most pervasive themes of the 104th Congress has been proposals to establish a national identification system as a means of tracking undocumented workers, so-called deadbeat dads and to monitor health insurance information. Various database schemes have been included in bills as diverse as
immigration, welfare reform and health insurance. Since these proposals have been buried in much larger legislation, it was often difficult to determine the position of members of Congress.
The ACLU Urged a Vote Against National ID Cards

Kerry voted FOR this... Even LIEberman, Ashcroft, Lott and Santorum were against this...

Senate Vote on Wiretapping
Wiretapping - Although the interception of innocent conversations in federal law enforcement wiretaps is already at record levels, Congress has been repeatedly asked to give the FBI even greater authority to wiretap. Proposals have ranged from providing $500 million to the nation's phone companies to finance a retrofit of their systems to make it easier for the FBI to wiretap to permitting law enforcement agencies to use more "roving" wiretaps (without specifying which phone is to be tapped), and more "emergency" wiretaps (without obtaining a prior court order).

Kerry voted FOR Wiretapping with LIEberman and his other buddy Santorum...

How the Senate Voted on Counter-Terrorism S. 735

Counter-terrorism - The bombing of the Oklahoma City Federal Building lifted from obscurity a Clinton Administration proposal to increase the powers of law enforcement in the name of fighting terrorism. The measure gave the government the power to use secret evidence to deport immigrants it accuses of being "terrorists" and to exclude aliens merely because they are members of a disfavored foreign group.


Kerry voted FOR this with LIEberman, Ashcroft and Santorum...

[library_max]

22. Kerry voted with Harkin, Kennedy, and Wellstone also.

On the nine bills you've listed, Tom Harkin and Bill Bradley voted with Kerry eight times out of nine, Jim Jeffords and Robert Byrd voted with him seven times, Ted Kennedy voted with him six times, and Paul Simon, Paul Wellstone, and Carol Moseley-Braun each voted with him four times. And those are your nine best shots, out of hundreds of Kerry votes in the Senate. Kerry's actual voting record is quite liberal, but you'd rather cut-and-paste a spammed smear against him than actually look at his record.

[library_max]

14. Everybody "votes along with the repubs on stuff."

You can't name a Democrat who has been in Congress (certainly not the Senate) for more than four years who is so progressive and saintly that he or she hasn't voted along with the repubs on stuff. Many bills, including some you and I may not like, pass virtually unanimously, for all kinds of reasons. This is a cheap smear that flies in the face of reality.

[Hav]

11. Let me make a wild guess...

I assume Kerry won a Primary..maybe even two..
Now all the stupid dirt,even the most ridiculous things like him pointing down with his finger is thrown at him.
I guess just as much as Dean was the victim.
If it's going to bite the Dems in the ass in November,good job.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

12. Darn good question!!

[kang]

18. Kerry never was Bush-lite

but has always had a quite liberal voting record. In fact, you might only be able to get away with it in MA! The Bush-lite accusation actually came largely from his vote on the Iraq resolution. Regardless of your views on that vote, it shouldn't have defined a man's whole career of fighting for liberal causes.

I believe Gov. Dean's rise was largely based on his anti-Bush rhetoric, but one can't deny that his railing against "Washington" Democrats (many who have since endorsed him) also tapped into the frustration of many with the Iraq vote (and getting steam-rolled in general by the GOP) played a key part in his campaign.

So Kerry's not too conservative by anybody's standard (ok, well not ANYBODY). Just as I wish Sen. Edwards would've served in some war (or been wounded ever in some foreign land...not seriously of course!), it would be nice if Kerry could speak of his Daddy being a millworker rather than his good old days at Yale. It would make the liberal positions (that we all love) go down a little bit easier and smoother with folks. Just IMHO.

[kang]

19. Forgot to mention

it would've also been nice for Clark to have some of Edwards' smooth trial-lawyer speaking skills! But Clark's a good combo of the two and I'm still convinced is our best bet as long as he continues to improve as a candidate (not much time though!).

[George_Bonanza]

21. Great question

It's similar to the Dean situation, where people in Vermont called him a Republican-in-disguise while the rest of the country thought he was McGovern.

What's great about Kerry is that he seems like a centrist but he has strong liberal tendencies. Dean's the opposite. So not only is Kerry more electable, he's also more progressive at the same time. How many candidates can boast that?